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Thread: socionics vs instincts

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    Default socionics vs. instincts

    sorry for largely stating the obvious here but i'm working stuff out in my head and curious for what others might say.

    so a post in the thread about Fe polr made me think about how somebody thinking of Fe polr as lack of tact might see somebody being an asshole and type them Fe polr when actually the person is pretty aware of and aims toward provoking others' emotions and pretends not to know any better. so yeah, hence the problem that comes up when typing by behavior and stuff. but how do you tell the difference between somebody saying something hurtful because they lack tact and someone saying something hurtful because they're being a jerk? especially if lack of tact can be cited as an excuse? for me, i could probably point to little things within the particular context, like pointing out how the hurtful thing they said didn't serve a particularly constructive purpose or the timing of it or something...but mostly its just a feeling that i guess comes about from having some interpersonal awareness in the first place. so i just end up falling back on my feelings/instincts anyway.

    i've seen socionics described as a tool for helping people who lack awareness of people and relationships. how helpful is it in this situation really? how much interpersonal awareness do you need to accurately type and analyze in the first place? how often is trusting your feelings over socionics actually a problem because of goofy perception stuff like projection, and in what scenarios is this more likely to happen? please discuss.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    most of people get confused and suffer a malus to their instinctive understanding of human psychology by applying socionics. there is a select group among which i am a member, though, that can apply the theory successfully and use it to expand the intuitive grasp. i know of only two people on this forum who also possess the ability, and neither of them still posts these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    most of people get confused and suffer a malus to their instinctive understanding of human psychology by applying socionics. there is a select group among which i am a member, though, that can apply the theory successfully and use it to expand the intuitive grasp. i know of only two people on this forum who also possess the ability, and neither of them still posts these days.
    Define what is "apply theory successfully" to you.

    As for me I try not to apply socionics at all as far as the real life goes. Im pretty sure my intuition is better than any model in this and with the way life is going so far I have pretty good reason to think so. I might think in terms of "he is probably type XXXx" or "she is probably a Se type" or ponder upon someone looking XXXx. Neither of that directly influences my everyday life though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Longer a Dating Site View Post
    Define what is "apply theory successfully" to you.

    As for me I try not to apply socionics at all as far as the real life goes. Im pretty sure my intuition is better than any model in this and with the way life is going so far I have pretty good reason to think so. I might think in terms of "he is probably type XXXx" or "she is probably a Se type" or ponder upon someone looking XXXx. Neither of that directly influences my everyday life though.
    I agree with this. I have found a few areas where it's helpful, but mainly just a sense of understanding that the way I think isn't the best or only way, and that people who think differently are just different, not worse. Also in parenting I think not assuming your children should become little mini-mes and appreciating their own personality, even when there is potential conflict, as in say if you are Ti polr and have a child with cre Ti.

    But I think if what you are taking from socionics is that you are better, smarter, or more evolved than everyone else (see a couple of posts above), you are deluding yourself and not really understanding it. Oh, and a bit immature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    lol

    Yeah I agree with the intuition thing, and I try not to think much about it and just accept people for themselves, or rather accept people for how I intuitively feel about them without overanalyzing it. As far as socionics type, I don't see 'meanness' as that type related. ie why should Te/Ti dominants be the 'nice' or 'respectful' ones and Fi/Fe PoLRs be the 'mean' or 'careless' ones? Doesn't work out that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    lol

    Yeah I agree with the intuition thing, and I try not to think much about it and just accept people for themselves, or rather accept people for how I intuitively feel about them without overanalyzing it. As far as socionics type, I don't see 'meanness' as that type related. ie why should Te/Ti dominants be the 'nice' or 'respectful' ones and Fi/Fe PoLRs be the 'mean' or 'careless' ones? Doesn't work out that way.
    so socionics describes something you already see? or what use do you get from it?

    and yeah meanness is meanness and F polr is F polr...i was trying to convey that in my post but i guess it didnt come across how i wanted it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    so socionics describes something you already see? or what use do you get from it?
    Well I still get a lot of use from it, I guess I just didn't understand the original post, though with Fe/Fi PoLR I was just referencing things people have said in general.

    There is a kind of intuitive understanding that goes along with knowing if someone is trying to be mean or not, but Socionics has probably helped me understand that this person isn't trying to get on my or others nerves, that's just the way they think about things. Meanness to me is rather just a concept I see straight through a lot of the time, as in people make too much of what constitutes as mean, and someone being mean usually doesn't stand for much in the whole picture. What kind of meanness are you talking about though? An example might help.

    Ie. if my ENTp brother were to take some stinging prickle and swipe it at me so I itch the rest of the day, I would see that as kind of mean, but that's just how he is sometimes, and because I like the guy I would just laugh it off. He can be a prankster with lighthearted karma coming his way too. There are otherwise ENTps who don't do that kind of stuff at all, its a personal quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    Well I still get a lot of use from it, I guess I just didn't understand the original post. Sorry.

    There is a kind of intuitive understanding that goes along with knowing if someone is trying to be mean or not, but Socionics has probably helped me understand that this person isn't trying to get on my or others nerves, that's just the way they think about things. Meanness to me is rather just a concept I see straight through a lot of the time, as in people make too much of what constitutes as mean, and someone being mean usually doesn't stand for much in the whole picture. What kind of meanness are you talking about though? An example might help.

    Ie. if my ENTp brother were to take some stinging prickle and swipe it at me so I itch the rest of the day, I would see that as kind of mean, but that's just how he is sometimes. He can be a prankster with lighthearted karma coming his way too. There are otherwise ENTps who don't do that kind of stuff at all, its a personal quality.
    i guess one thing that happens from me trusting my instincts more is that i might not get the benefits from socionics that way...its easier for me to listen to my gut saying someone is an ass than it is to listen to my mind explaining the socionical reasons, and my gut is louder. the problem is there is a loop if i type and analyze socionically based largely on these gut impressions (because i don't trust observable behavior to tell me enough) and it just voids out.

    am i making sense here?

    the Fe polr thing was just a way to anchor my thoughts and wasn't the main point, but to answer the question what i was referring to was:

    -somebody saying something tactlessly because the emotional impact it will make isn't something they have much awareness of is not being mean.

    -somebody saying something mean and playing it off like "oops i didn't think you would take it that way" even though they did it on purpose is being mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Longer a Dating Site View Post
    Define what is "apply theory successfully" to you.

    As for me I try not to apply socionics at all as far as the real life goes. Im pretty sure my intuition is better than any model in this and with the way life is going so far I have pretty good reason to think so. I might think in terms of "he is probably type XXXx" or "she is probably a Se type" or ponder upon someone looking XXXx. Neither of that directly influences my everyday life though.
    I'm sure Labcoat is too great in his understanding to entertain your little pea-brain request.

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    most of people get confused and suffer a malus to their instinctive understanding of human psychology by applying socionics. there is a select group among which i am a member, though, that can apply the theory successfully and use it to expand the intuitive grasp. i know of only two people on this forum who also possess the ability, and neither of them still posts these days.

    Yes, and everyone else thinks their Ti knows better. Funny how that works. Jung was definitely on to something when he said Ti is subjective. By my estimations that also makes me the Queen of England.

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    i would like for this thread to not be about labcoat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i would like for this thread to not be about labcoat.
    Can it be about me then?

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    Yes, and everyone else thinks their Ti knows better. Funny how that works.
    and socionics gives us the objective answer as to who is right. the biggest reason for the widespread chaos and destruction on forums like these is that people with weak Ti (which ego Te is just another variant of) don't refrain from using the function.

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