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Thread: Mobilizing Function = Source of Sacrificial Behavior?

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Default Mobilizing Function = Source of Sacrificial Behavior?

    Is the Mobilizing function a source of sacrificial behavior?

    My justification for the question is that since the Creative creates "Products" we expect reciprocation in the Mobilizing. So, in that same vein, are we willing, on a functional level, to perform sacrificial behavior(possibly in the face of death) in the name of the Mobilizing?



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    to perform sacrificial behavior(possibly in the face of death) in the name of the Mobilizing?
    Sacrifice and death seem counter intuitive to to me. It could be my lack of knowledge, but this topic seems to vague for me to understand what you are talking about.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

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    have you considered how this might play out for each HA or just for Fi? i personally don't see it.

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    The HA is the social validation a person strives for. Suicide / other ways of dying can be motivated by a longing for social validation, but the rationalization process which leads to suicide is a radical use of the creative function. The creative works for the fulfillment of the HA.
    A separation of the HA & creative which is that strong is most likely sourced in the HA & creative themselves. I.e. the person either expects too much social validation or they have an extremely high creative standard, probably both.
    Last edited by rat1; 04-12-2011 at 02:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    The HA is the social validation a person strives for. Suicide / other ways of dying can be motivated by a longing for social validation, but the rationalization process which leads to suicide is a radical use of the creative function. The creative works for the fulfillment of the HA.
    Rationalization for suicide = application of creative function. I don't see it. What about the actual contexts of the situation that lead to the self sacrifice/suicide?

    Pinning down open ended, complicated and nuances of human motivation to "creative function" or "mobilizing function" ect, ect, is thumbing down easy answers; and it's rather childish.

    Contexts!
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

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    I am talking specifically about suicide in the name of social validation which is the HA function. Read my words: Suicide can be motivated by a need for social validation. By the way, this is what socionics is. It's abstract. Everything about it is abstract. If we ever say anything about anything using socionics, it's going to be abstract. So quoting me and telling me I'm speaking too abstractly is essentially saying "why dont you stop talking about socionics". Well, because I don't fucking want to. If you have a problem with it then get the fuck off of this forum. It's a socionics forum.
    And let me spell it out for you a bit more. Jonny has an insatiable need to receive social validation. Jonny then brainstorms "How can I get this validation I so long for" (i.e Jonny is using his creative function; see the creative thought process attempting to solve the problem?)> Jonny then concludes the only way to get attention is to kill himself - then people would recognize him. It's a classic suicide story everyone has heard and it's an obvious duality between the need for social validation and problem solving. So it's not really that fucking far fetched. Do you wana add some other scenario? Go ahead and do it. Give me another possibility. That may actually flesh out the discussion instead of causing it to spin in circles while I do all the work, you fucking social parasite.
    Last edited by rat1; 04-12-2011 at 02:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    I am talking specifically about suicide in the name of social validation which is the HA function. By the way, this is what socionics is. It's abstract. Everything about it is abstract. If we ever say anything about anything using socionics, it's going to be abstract. So quoting me and telling me I'm speaking too abstractly is essentially saying "why dont you stop talking about socionics". Well, because I don't fucking want to. If you have a problem with it then get the fuck off of this forum. It's a socionics forum.


    We are dealing with a topic that is completely undefined. Mobilizing function source of sacrificial behavior? To open ended to really put foward any hypothesis. What constitutes "sacrificial behavior", whats the situation? How can we really say what motivates it if we only have a vague idea of what we are motivating.

    If anyone like dealing with the absract, it's me. BUT WITHOUT CONTEXTS. IT'S JUST EMPTY MEANDERING.

    Do you wana add some other scenario? Go ahead and do it
    Okey. Unable to pay off gambling debts owed to shady lenders, Jonny ends his life to avoid the wrath of the gangsters.

    you fucking social parasite.


    You seem agitated, I recommend you take the time to breath a little. You think insults from some random on the internet is going to affect me? don't blame me for your own inability to control your own emotional state.

    It's a socionics forum.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

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    I blame you for being unable to read and spreading your shit on the walls of this forum.
    Not once did you specifically respond to something I said. The most you've done is reference the OP and make a generalization. Nice evasiveness. What's worse, you asked me questions which I already answered in the post which you quoted. The topic is not completely undefined. I fucking defined it. In my post. Reread, you illiterate piece of catshit. The first line in my post lays out a specific suicide scenario. What do you think that is? Here is a clue: context. And the scenario I used is the cliche suicide scenario everyone immediately thinks of when they think of a suicidal emo. It's the most common one, you'll see it in 10 percent of teenagers. Guess why I chose that one? So that what I said had relevant context. Gambling debts... Nice contribution. I'll bet that covers about .01 percent of people or less. I wonder if having gambling debts is even a psychological disorder? Maybe we should add "being terminally ill" to the DSM-V. Now you can fuck off. By the way, you've been added to "the list".
    Last edited by rat1; 04-12-2011 at 05:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Not once did you specifically respond to something I said. The most you've done is reference the OP and make a generalization. Nice evasiveness. The topic is not completely undefined. I fucking defined it. In my post. Reread, you illiterate piece of catshit. The first line in my post lays out a specific suicide scenario. What do you think that is? Here is a clue: context. And the scenario I used is the cliche suicide scenario everyone immediately thinks of when they think of a suicidal emo bitch. It's the most common one, the kind of psychological disorder you'll see in 10 percent of teenagers. Guess why I chose that one? So that what I said had relevant context. Gambling debts... Nice contribution. Now you can fuck off. By the way, you've been added to "the list".
    Self ban in 3... 2...

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    shut up k0rpsey. Im still editing that too.

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    So crazedrat always wanted to kill himself to get attention as a teenager. Interesting.

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    Change your picture. It's too faggy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neotropic View Post
    Rationalization for suicide = application of creative function. I don't see it.
    It's quite simple. Here's me using my creative function to rationalize suicide:
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    I'm more inclined to say that judging functions in general are the locus of morality as such, (insofar as morality means the imperative to change behavior to conform to a standard), and that the introverted judging functions are the primary dictators of what we generally think of as morality, which are behavioral imperatives not rooted in pragmatic self-protection (in fact, there are Se/Ni moralities that will tell you to just act in accordance with reality and Si/Ne moralities that will tell you probably to live and let live, but we generally do not recognize these as systems of morality).

    I'm not sure, therefore, how any of the perceiving functions could act as self-sacrificing moral imperatives. I mean, how is Se going to tell someone to act in a self-sacrificing manner? It may often require willpower to act in a self-sacrificing manner, but that has only a tenuous connection to Se.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    To clear things up:
    I didn't mean suicide, I meant risking yourself as a human resource in the name of the Mobilizing.

    I'm not sure but I think this only goes for and possibly .

    What would help this thread is a discourse on the Mobilizing in the context of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neotropic View Post
    Sacrifice and death seem counter intuitive to to me. It could be my lack of knowledge, but this topic seems to vague for me to understand what you are talking about.
    Possibly. Though, in a "meta-way", is not above sacrifice and death.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    have you considered how this might play out for each HA or just for Fi? i personally don't see it.
    I tried. I could only see it for and , and not even to the same extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I'm more inclined to say that judging functions in general are the locus of morality as such, (insofar as morality means the imperative to change behavior to conform to a standard), and that the introverted judging functions are the primary dictators of what we generally think of as morality, which are behavioral imperatives not rooted in pragmatic self-protection (in fact, there are Se/Ni moralities that will tell you to just act in accordance with reality and Si/Ne moralities that will tell you probably to live and let live, but we generally do not recognize these as systems of morality).

    I'm not sure, therefore, how any of the perceiving functions could act as self-sacrificing moral imperatives. I mean, how is Se going to tell someone to act in a self-sacrificing manner? It may often require willpower to act in a self-sacrificing manner, but that has only a tenuous connection to Se.
    I didn't realize that in the perception functions. I'll have to think on it.

    However what you're referring to is the reason why I made this thread. I don't see how perception functions would cause the same kind of behavior as for a judging function, specifically HA.
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