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Thread: The Tudors (Showtime TV series)

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Default The Tudors (Showtime TV series)

    not historical/real-life

    I was curious as to people's opinions if anyone has one


    my thoughts so far (I'm in the beginning of S3):

    King Henry VIII – IEI? (alternatively LSI?) maybe EIE SLE
    Cardinal Wolsey – Te leading? Maybe LIE? though seems very Delta-ish
    Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk – EIE
    Anne Boleyn - ???
    Katherine of Aragon – ESE (this is the one I’m pretty sure of)
    Thomas Cromwell - ???
    Thomas More – Ti?
    Jane Seymour – SEI? (alternatively EII?)
    Francis Bryan – SLE???
    Princess/Lady Mary Tudor - ???
    Thomas Wyatt – Alpha NT???
    William Compton – SEE?
    Thomas Tallis – ILI or LII?
    Katherine Howard - SEI
    Catherine Parr - ESI perhaps
    Eustace Chapuys - maybe ESE

    Thomas Cranmer – IEI or something? could consider SEI and even LII

    Thomas Boleyn – ???
    George Boleyn - Fe/Ti?
    King Francis of France - ???
    Princess Margaret Tudor - ???


    ---


    as a side note I thought King Henry VIII's character in the movie The Other Boleyn Girl seemed kind of LSE-ish.
    Last edited by inumbra; 04-14-2011 at 05:55 PM.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    King Henry VIII – IEI? (alternatively LSI?)
    uhm no. a dead obvious base Se type.

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    morgause's Avatar
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    Does anybody else get strong Ni vibes from Anne Boleyn, particularly throughout season 2?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    uhm no. a dead obvious base Se type.
    I don't agree with that at this point, although I've thought about it and it's not out of consideration or anything. He seems like a "dead obvious" Beta to me though. I mean you could say he's too "forceful," demanding, commanding, and fickle with "do this, no do that, no this" kinds of decisions many of which seem to be made on impulse. He does demonstrate throughout that there is really no way to win with him. If you remain his loyal subject and do everything he asks you're still not safe from being killed or falling out of favor or meeting some other unfortunate end. You could say it's possible he forgets his connections with people and has a short memory for these things. And I really have thought about it this way, but still I have my other feeling about it (also keeping in mind that he probably isn't a perfect representation of any type). I suppose another thing is that he was in his youth a very physical person who liked devoting a lot of time to sports. Adding on to this it seems to be somewhat easy to steer him in a certain direction on some things (perhaps that he can sometimes have a seemingly simple, supernatural way of interpreting things, but this would also be reflective of the time). After he realized that Anne Boleyn was manipulating him for instance he thought of her as a witch (but did he really ever know her before, I mean who did he think she was before and why was he conned so easily) and he furthermore believed all the charges against her (and I thought that he actually did believe it and wasn't just telling himself this; that he is likely to believe a justification for what he wants to happen without questioning it... so he wants Anne out of the way and wants to marry Jane and Anne manipulated him so of course she slept with like 100 people in the course of their marriage as that's the kind of total bitch she was). I mean the decision making process here seems quite rash.

    I suppose if I were to consider Se leading I might be more likely to go with SEE... my issue with an Fi type though is that his ties with people seem very weak. I don't think there's anyone that he can have any kind of stable connection with. Circumstances change all of his connections and cause him to throw out those who were "friends" and part of this is because friendships with him are in a way with England (and so they become political rather than personal and as king he has to put the political first). But even people he's known his entire life (like More) are not safe from turning into demons in his eyes via the sway of popular opinion or whatever. I mean for example, it seemed like Wolsey fell out of favor with him for a) not accomplishing the impossible; and for b) that Anne Boleyn warned that he was actually deliberately working against the king. His opinion of others sways so easily as though he's incapable of having a more constant faith in them. And no matter what he does he seems to believe he's on the side of "righteousness."

    But if he were this fickle and SEE I might expect it to go more along the lines of thinking he really likes someone and then having some kind of falling out with this person and realizing he likes them no longer and instead now really likes and adores someone else and is always on the look out for more people to adore for whatever reason, where it would be driven by his feelings for others. But his approach seems much different: people fall out of favor with him over ideological differences. If they don't embrace his chosen ideology of the time then they have directly went against him and must suffer the consequences. So his fickleness in a way stems more from his changing political stances and to save your head you need to be able to flow with what is in and what is out ideologically. So maybe in part some of my idea regarding a type like IEI is that I saw him as searching through different ideological positions but never really able to more permanently settle on any of them. In a way I would expect Beta STs to be a little more constant ideologically and not so immediately threatened and reactive over differences of opinion (of course once again there's the time and culture to consider as the culture itself is very ideologically rooted imo... words and ideas are so powerful that even the slightest mention of something hinting at a particular viewpoint is enough to be executed over). I suppose I could shift to EIE as a possibility over IEI and maybe that would even work better.

    I guess one other issue is that Henry's character obviously has too much power (more power than one person can successfully manage).
    Last edited by inumbra; 04-11-2011 at 10:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgause View Post
    Does anybody else get strong Ni vibes from Anne Boleyn, particularly throughout season 2?
    I did, but I thought it might be simply due to the constant plotting. Every move she makes has been plotted out and discussed with at least her father as they try to ensure their future interests. I mean this automatically comes with an Ni feel, but I guess I don't feel it's enough and I still sort of see her character as a blank probably because I feel the "real her" is lost in all the plotting (she is not the plotting, but that is what is most often seen of her).

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Thomas Cromwell - ???
    ISTj, and also largely the refutation of the idea that Henry might be ISTj. Henry is 1000 times more erratic and impulsive than him. it's not just a subtype nuance.

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    I haven't watched this in almost a year so a lot of this is based off of shaky memory...

    Henry VIII- SLE
    Charles Brandon- EIE
    Thomas Cromwell- LIE
    Thomas More- LII
    Catherine of Aragon- ESE
    Anne Boleyn- SLE?
    Jane Seymour- IEI/SEI?
    Anne of Cleves- IEE/ESE?
    Katherine Howard- SEI
    Katherine Parr- ILI
    Mary Tudor- LSI
    Elizabeth- LIE
    Catherine Brandon- ESI/LSI
    Edward Seymour- IEI
    Anne Seymour- SLE/LSI?
    Thomas Wyatt- IEI
    Robert Aske- SLI?
    Hans Holbein- LSI

    btw this series is Beta as hell
    EII INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84
    Henry VIII- SLE
    Charles Brandon- EIE
    Thomas Cromwell- LIE
    Thomas More- LII
    Catherine of Aragon- ESE
    Anne Boleyn- SLE?
    Jane Seymour- IEI/SEI?
    Anne of Cleves- IEE/ESE?
    Katherine Howard- SEI
    Mary Tudor- LSI
    Catherine Brandon- ESI/LSI
    Edward Seymour- IEI
    Thomas Wyatt- IEI
    I like a lot of these. I've been thinking it over and I think I kind of like Henry as SLE and Charles as EIE (rather than it being backwards as I had it). Last night I saw the first episode Catherine Howard appears in and I also thought SEI.

    I probably don't like Jane as IEI... I have trouble seeing any Se valuing in her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I like a lot of these. I've been thinking it over and I think I kind of like Henry as SLE and Charles as EIE (rather than it being backwards as I had it). Last night I saw the first episode Catherine Howard appears in and I also thought SEI.

    I probably don't like Jane as IEI... I have trouble seeing any Se valuing in her.
    Hahaha, Catherine Howard is hilariouuuss! I love her laugh! I don't know how much you've seen yet, but the sexy puppet show she puts on for Henry and the way she reads that letter from Cromwell is it? Amazing stuff. That actress' comedic timing is great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgause View Post
    Hahaha, Catherine Howard is hilariouuuss! I love her laugh! I don't know how much you've seen yet, but the sexy puppet show she puts on for Henry and the way she reads that letter from Cromwell is it? Amazing stuff. That actress' comedic timing is great.
    I feel sorry for her character so far. She's in the lion's den and doesn't recognize the lion, or at least that's how it seems so far. I didn't really like the letter scene since I guess I thought that it was particularly nasty to have Catherine read that letter to him. It's both making a mockery of Cromwell's impending death and presenting this horrible thing like it's all in good fun, but worse than that it's just so deceiving. I mean it's all fun and games until Henry/the sway of popular opinion actually turn on you and you get to be killed while everyone else laughs about it. And then furthermore is the sense of slight shock where Catherine is glibly reading the letter and finding it so amusing until she gets to the end to discover that this isn't some kind of comedy but someone's life and I'm sure Henry got some kind of sick pleasure out of this (out of having this foolish girl read a grave letter). Catherine is obviously really foolish and I guess I rather pity her and part of it's her upbringing as well since she was raised to be a playful whore and seems to have no understanding of anything else (I mean people can't help what they are and are not exposed to and what they do and don't realize, and I think Catherine's world has been very limited so far). But perhaps this will all change later after they marry--perhaps she'll realize that it is dangerous. Of course it was also just really lame to put her in this position in the first place because she's defenseless since she can't see what's going on and has no allies to help her. And if Henry kills her for being a dumb child when he knew that's what she was it's really unfair and the greater sense of responsibility should have rested on him. Anyway I've had conflicting sympathy/dislike of Henry's character throughout and can't seem to settle on any final feeling. Probably the closest to final I got was when he sent Charles to go kill all those people in the North since that's exactly the kind of errand to send someone on if you intend to destroy them psychologically. I'm waiting to see if Henry in his later years of madness will actually kill Charles. And that's the point, I see Henry as a combination between a snake and a spoiled toddler, and completely unworthy of respect as a leader because he's a snake, yet worthy of undeserved respect for the power he commands. Still though as I said before I think he has too much power and he is guided by standards in society at the time and what is seen as fair/just and what isn't, and these standards are harsh. To blame him for them is not fair, and beyond this, he has to maintain his position as dictator because if he goes too soft people wouldn't fear to try to overthrow him, or might actually succeed when they try.

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