Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 83

Thread: Information Element Imperatives

  1. #1
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Information Element Imperatives

    The way I look at socionics, the main theoretical issue is the semantics of the information elements and functions. The following is part of an idea I've been kicking around, which is to split each information element into different aspects. I think Rick said he was going to do this for his book.

    This came to mind when Golden mentioned that her attitude towards wasn't entirely clear if was supposed to mean something like enjoyment of the senses, for example, but that it became perfectly clear if it was really about maintaining a balanced internal state.

    It's becoming more clear to me that there are at least two aspects, one for pure information, and one for a sort of imperative or goal. Trying to define semantics without something like these leads only to a loose collection of themes. Everyone has all these imperatives, but different types feel different ones more strongly, the strongest being functions 1 & 5, followed by 2 & 6. Generally, this tells us what it means to "value" an information element.

    So, this is an attempt to define the imperative for each information element.

    Should be read as "I need to have/achieve ____."

    : balance/harmony
    : purpose/meaning
    : self-expression
    : productive activity effectiveness
    : order
    : faithfulness to personal feelings
    : maximizing potential novelty discovery / exploring the hidden/unknown
    : mastery/dominion impact

    These should be interpreted very generally. can mean mastering having an impact on the self, others, a craft, etc. Any suggestions or improvements?

    For - also realization of potential?
    Last edited by thehotelambush; 08-29-2011 at 09:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    : maximizing potential
    : mastery/dominion
    I like your approach, less information and more of other aspects

    Those 2 that I've quoted are the ones that I find not very good, or recognizable. The others are much better recognizable.

    Maybe Se is something like 'attention seeking' or 'pleasure seeking' though it might be too broad...

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The way I look at socionics, the main theoretical issue is the semantics of the information elements and functions. The following is part of an idea I've been kicking around, which is to split each information element into different aspects. I think Rick said he was going to do this for his book.

    This came to mind when Golden mentioned that her attitude towards wasn't entirely clear if was supposed to mean something like enjoyment of the senses, for example, but that it became perfectly clear if it was really about maintaining a balanced internal state.

    It's becoming more clear to me that there are at least two aspects, one for pure information, and one for a sort of imperative or goal. Trying to define semantics without something like these leads only to a loose collection of themes. Everyone has all these imperatives, but different types feel different ones more strongly, the strongest being functions 1 & 5, followed by 2 & 6. Generally, this tells us what it means to "value" an information element.

    So, this is an attempt to define the imperative for each information element.

    : maintaining balance/harmony
    : living according to one's purpose
    : unhindered expression
    : productive activity
    : everything having a place/role
    : faithfulness?
    : maximizing potential
    : mastery/dominion

    These should be interpreted very generally. can mean mastering the self, others, a craft, etc. Any suggestions or improvements?

    For - includes having a clear logical understanding
    For - connotes "faithfulness" generally to one's personal feelings (the color of the laser beams, so to speak)
    For - also realization of potential?
    Steps in the right direction. Identifying what the "essence" of the IE's are.

    The role of blocked elements should not be underestimated. If I understand the theory of +/- correctly, two elements blocked together create an emergence in both, where they act differently than they are if abstracted. The type becomes not only the functions the elements are placed in, but the way these function relate with each other.

    As for Ne... I think it is more likely that the potential which is looked into, and the realization of the potential, is determined by the rational blocked element. That is just speculatory, though.

  4. #4
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    For me, = meaning > purpose

    I think is closer to purpose.

    However for this exercise, I'll say:
    Maintaining hands-off guiding
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The way I look at socionics, the main theoretical issue is the semantics of the information elements and functions. The following is part of an idea I've been kicking around, which is to split each information element into different aspects. I think Rick said he was going to do this for his book.

    This came to mind when Golden mentioned that her attitude towards wasn't entirely clear if was supposed to mean something like enjoyment of the senses, for example, but that it became perfectly clear if it was really about maintaining a balanced internal state.

    It's becoming more clear to me that there are at least two aspects, one for pure information, and one for a sort of imperative or goal. Trying to define semantics without something like these leads only to a loose collection of themes. Everyone has all these imperatives, but different types feel different ones more strongly, the strongest being functions 1 & 5, followed by 2 & 6. Generally, this tells us what it means to "value" an information element.

    So, this is an attempt to define the imperative for each information element.

    : maintaining balance/harmony
    : living according to one's purpose
    : unhindered expression
    : productive activity
    : everything having a place/role
    : faithfulness?
    : maximizing potential
    : mastery/dominion

    These should be interpreted very generally. can mean mastering the self, others, a craft, etc. Any suggestions or improvements?

    For - includes having a clear logical understanding
    For - connotes "faithfulness" generally to one's personal feelings (the color of the laser beams, so to speak)
    For - also realization of potential?
    So are you and Rick going to (try) to do this yourselves, or are you going to be cooperative for once?

    And don't even think about introducing the quadra form perspective as your own invention, after we have discussed the issue back and forth on here for years.

    It also seems like you are taking an Aristotelian perspective on the elements. (not unexpected) To complete your assertion, consider that the creation of a positive where there was previously only a negative, is just as meaningful a goal as are protection and exaltation.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 04-09-2011 at 12:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada's Prairie Farmland
    TIM
    C-LII
    Posts
    2,647
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like this. I will have to ruminate on it for a while.
    Quaero Veritas.

  7. #7
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Maintaining hands-on guidance / Making promising impacts in life
    Maintaining hands-off guidance / Making visible impacts in life
    Promoting worthy actions / Receiving voluntary recognition(attention?love?) for effort
    Promoting influential actions / Receiving official recognition for effort

    Check the duality.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  8. #8
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like the direction you're going with this, and a lot of it resonates with me really well.

    For the word that comes to mind is "impact." I see that ESC used that term, as well (above).

    So if there is a drive with toward mastery or control or dominion or strength or force (stuff stereotypically ascribed to it), I think it has something to do with an underlying need for impactfulness, but I'll have to consider that further.

    EDIT: The personal confusion that remains for me after many months of considering my own type is that I seem to value these elements in roughly the following order, though it can change depending on my mood, the context, my stage of development:

    unhindered expression
    living according to one's purpose
    mastery/dominion
    productive activity
    maximizing potential
    everything having a place/role
    faithfulness?
    maintaining balance/harmony

    Which is to say that I don't think these values add up to Model A very well. :\ And I can't really account for that.

  9. #9
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    being open-minded, identifying trends and developing potential
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I like the direction you're going with this, and a lot of it resonates with me really well.

    For the word that comes to mind is "impact." I see that ESC used that term, as well (above).

    So if there is a drive with toward mastery or control or dominion or strength or force (stuff stereotypically ascribed to it), I think it has something to do with an underlying need for impactfulness, but I'll have to consider that further.

    EDIT: The personal confusion that remains for me after many months of considering my own type is that I seem to value these elements in roughly the following order, though it can change depending on my mood, the context, my stage of development:

    unhindered expression
    living according to one's purpose
    mastery/dominion
    productive activity
    maximizing potential
    everything having a place/role
    faithfulness?
    maintaining balance/harmony

    Which is to say that I don't think these values add up to Model A very well. :\ And I can't really account for that.
    I see... my, power corrupts even the mind, I suppose.

    Explain to me why these ruminations on an eight function model matter AT ALL.

  11. #11
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I see... my, power corrupts even the mind, I suppose.

    Explain to me why these ruminations on an eight function model matter AT ALL.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    You'll be laughing when you get dismissive stares from the professionals.

  13. #13
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    you're projecting that the "professionals" have any business with me.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    you're projecting that the "professionals" have any business with me.
    And how the hell do you plan to make a living?

  15. #15
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I see... my, power corrupts even the mind, I suppose.
    Explain yourself. For once.

  16. #16
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    And how the hell do you plan to make a living?
    not spoon fed in a straight jacket.

  17. #17
    Creepy-male

    Default



    labcoat wins at the internet! High score!

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Explain yourself. For once.
    Nah, not with that condescending attitude.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    : Fuck off.
    : Shine Get.
    : Context.
    : No clipping.
    : Fine, but then go away.
    : Women.
    : Explanation.
    : Who cares.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    88
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Maybe instead of being "maximizing potential," whatever the heck that means, it could be something like "exploring possibilities."

  21. #21
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Nah, not with that condescending attitude.


    So my interpretation is: someone made me a mod, which is basically a little job where if someone reports (i.e., tattles) on someone else 'round here, a few people have to decide how to deal with it. That's not such a very enviable task, is it? It's potentially very uncomfortable.

    But you think I see myself as having a taste of power, so whatever I say to you now will be viewed in that light.

    Boo. I was joking with you in the above post, or at least trying to. So yeah. Boo.

  22. #22
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    AFAIK every normal human is capable of considering and exploring possibilities. Perhaps you should consider a more uniquely applicable description for .
    The point of is to look at and explore all possibilities, or at least as many as possible. polrs, on the other hand, want the most likely scenario, not a ton of possible results. "Exploring multiple possibilities" might fit better, if it's that much of an issue.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  23. #23
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I like the direction you're going with this, and a lot of it resonates with me really well.

    For the word that comes to mind is "impact." I see that ESC used that term, as well (above).

    So if there is a drive with toward mastery or control or dominion or strength or force (stuff stereotypically ascribed to it), I think it has something to do with an underlying need for impactfulness, but I'll have to consider that further.
    OK, that's probably a better definition.

    EDIT: The personal confusion that remains for me after many months of considering my own type is that I seem to value these elements in roughly the following order, though it can change depending on my mood, the context, my stage of development:

    unhindered expression
    living according to one's purpose
    mastery/dominion
    productive activity
    maximizing potential
    everything having a place/role
    faithfulness?
    maintaining balance/harmony
    Which is to say that I don't think these values add up to Model A very well. :\ And I can't really account for that.
    The only problem I see here is vs. . Maybe you value more than you realize?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    So are you and Rick going to (try) to do this yourselves, or are you going to be cooperative for once?
    ? He's free to comment on this thread just like anyone else.

    Rick also pointed out that usually novelty-seeking is a description that more types resonate with, maybe that's better.

    And don't even think about introducing the quadra form perspective as your own invention, after we have discussed the issue back and forth on here for years.
    Perhaps you could explain this a little more, I have no idea what you're talking about.

  24. #24
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default

    I would agree with ananke's statement from like August of last year, that Se and Fi are still the most misunderstood elements on the forum.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lol, tcaud has been saying this for over 4 years and now some of you guys who've been here hear it from another source and decide to consider it. It's just an EM type. The functions have material states, and then energy states. By the way if you want to see the function descriptions they're pretty thorough.. pretty sure tcaud has them somewhere. Tcuad post them in this thread.

  26. #26
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Lol, tcaud has been saying this for over 4 years and now some of you guys who've been here hear it from another source and decide to consider it. It's just an EM type. The functions have material states, and then energy states. By the way if you want to see the function descriptions they're pretty thorough.. pretty sure tcaud has them somewhere. Tcuad post them in this thread.
    Cool--if different people arrive at the same conclusions, that actually makes me happy, because to me it means maybe it's a train of thought that has validity.

    I'd like to see what Tcaud came up with. And I have been willing to consider what he says on EM, btw.

    Regarding your statement "It's just an EM type," would you mind explaining why? And why does this notion--of an imperative or goal--have to be ascribed to EM, versus to IM? (I just don't understand the EM idea very well.)

  27. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know you havent been here to see tcauds descriptions. Alot of people werent. I'm making a thread about these energy states and my thoughts on them, for whatever that's worth to people. I differ from tcaud on a few things (like the structure of the energy type, what constitutes an energy type.. your question), but one thing I definitely agree with him on is his descriptions of all the energy functions. They're worth reading for anyone interested. To answer what is an energy type I'm gona write up a thread answering that later and I'll link it here. That's actually part of something I've already been writing & planning on posting.

  28. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Cool--if different people arrive at the same conclusions, that actually makes me happy, because to me it means maybe it's a train of thought that has validity.
    You should be more attentive to the substance of the arguments presented and the ethics which underlie them. You have an obligation to behave ethically, like as not.

    Intellectual honesty is just as important as any other kind of honesty.

    I'd like to see what Tcaud came up with. And I have been willing to consider what he says on EM, btw.
    I thought you'd already read it. Where's the intellectual curiosity? Still if rat wants to do a write up that's swell.
    Last edited by golden; 04-10-2011 at 05:43 PM. Reason: I fucked up and had to put this back together. Goddammit.

  29. #29
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I thought you'd already read it. Where's the intellectual curiosity? Still if rat wants to do a write up that's swell.
    The meaning of my above statements--I believe--was that I have open-mindedly read whatever material you have provided here on EM that I have encountered (1) since joining the forum and seeing it freshly posted, and (2) by searching the forum for information on EM. Rat seems to think I have not read the particular information he's speaking of, and he may or may not be correct. I would appreciate a link, and I would appreciate even more if he or someone else who is into EM would present it from their point of view, to add to my ability to understand it.

    You should be more attentive to the substance of the arguments presented and the ethics which underlie them. You have an obligation to behave ethically, like as not.

    Intellectual honesty is just as important as any other kind of honesty.
    For whatever ways I have offended you or done you any harm, I offer you my sincere apology. If you would care to take the time to point to exactly what I have done that prompted these statements, I invite you to PM me (or you can post it here or elsewhere publicly, though I admit that would make me uncomfortable).

    Just for the record, I don't claim to know anything much about Socionics, or anything else. But that is not to say that I don't try, over time and in my own manner, to learn.

  30. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In the past, we used the term "exertion type". However, much of that discourse was speculation that we now believe to be incorrect. As for the general supersocion theory, the basic outline is scattered amongst posts in the "other theories" forum.

  31. #31
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't like your Fi and Ne descriptions. I mean, everybody is faithful to their personal feelings, and everybody likes maximizing their potential.

    The rest of the descriptions are good, because they're more specific to me and something that is based on individuals. Not everybody likes 'productive work' but some do. Not everybody needs purpose or meaning in their lives, but some do. Not everybody needs self-expression, but some do. Etc.

    But I do like all your other descriptions. Just change Fi & Ne to mean something else, because everybody needs/wants those things equally. The descriptions aren't specific enough.

  32. #32
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I don't like your Fi and Ne descriptions. I mean, everybody is faithful to their personal feelings, and everybody likes maximizing their potential.

    The rest of the descriptions are good, because they're more specific to me and something that is based on individuals. Not everybody likes 'productive work' but some do. Not everybody needs purpose or meaning in their lives, but some do. Not everybody needs self-expression, but some do. Etc.

    But I do like all your other descriptions. Just change Fi & Ne to mean something else, because everybody needs/wants those things equally. The descriptions aren't specific enough.
    Interesting and valid points. I think should probably be changed to something like novelty. Not sure about , any ideas?

  33. #33
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What about "bonds" for ? It would need to be expanded, obviously.

    Are you looking at these like a base function?
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  34. #34
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    What about "bonds" for ? It would need to be expanded, obviously.

    Are you looking at these like a base function?
    Like I said, if it's the base function it is the first priority.

    I guess the striving for close relationships is important for , but I was going for something that applies to bad relationships also.

  35. #35
    Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Former USSR (global nomad)
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    2,050
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Like I said, if it's the base function it is the first priority.

    I guess the striving for close relationships is important for , but I was going for something that applies to bad relationships also.
    Maybe a leading type can contribute? What's their internal experience of ?

    "Novelty" is not bad for , but it seems narrower than "balance" or "harmony" for . The thing is, no word will ever be absolutely perfect. But it's worth trying.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

  36. #36
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,594
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    faithfulness to personal feelings isn't awful. i'm personally not a big fan of "bonds" because i see Fi as applying to more than just positive human relationships, but i think ryene is Fi base and as such her opinion says something.

    i've heard resonance for Fi before and liked it. i suppose my choice for Fi would be something like "resonance/dissonance." but i don't know if that counts as an imperative because its not an action? maybe something like "attentiveness to resonance or dissonance?"

    i wouldn't be satisfied with any sort of simple phrase descriptor, lol, but since thats the goal here you have my two cents.

  37. #37
    Marie84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    2,359
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "resonance/dissonance" isn't bad, but yeah I have a hard time quantifying the IE's so simplistically, it makes it a bit too open-ended and easy to misconstrue
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

  38. #38
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmm. Yeah, this is a bit difficult. What about adding in the creative functions ( vs )?
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  39. #39
    Azeroffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    California
    TIM
    ENTj 3w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,216
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I don't like your Fi and Ne descriptions. I mean, everybody is faithful to their personal feelings, and everybody likes maximizing their potential.

    The rest of the descriptions are good, because they're more specific to me and something that is based on individuals. Not everybody likes 'productive work' but some do. Not everybody needs purpose or meaning in their lives, but some do. Not everybody needs self-expression, but some do. Etc.

    But I do like all your other descriptions. Just change Fi & Ne to mean something else, because everybody needs/wants those things equally. The descriptions aren't specific enough.
    I find it strange that you think everyone is faithful to their personal feelings and wants to maximize their potential but not everyone likes productive work, meaning or self-expression.

    I think there are plenty of people that are disconnected from their personal feelings and have no desire to maximize their potential. I think it's just as easy to say that everyone wants to accomplish what they set out to do effectively(people prefer convience over inconvenience), needs some purpose in their life(everything people do is for some desired effect), and needs to express themself in some way(we're not all mutes, and even mutes express themself). Really, it's a matter of emphasis or degrees of need imo, and I think these give a decent general idea of what the types emphasize.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

  40. #40
    Azeroffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    California
    TIM
    ENTj 3w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,216
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The only change I'd make is 'discovery' for . It pulls in 'potential' and 'novelty' in a nice way I think. They want to discover the wonders of the world and themself.

    I like the one. Having a place for everything, but of course in the psychological sense, which may or may not translate into the physical sense. Everything should be in order, logically.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •