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    Default Typing me plz.

    Hey im french and ive struggle a long time with mbti, and now Im more into socionic (The model seems to be better).
    And I dont know my type
    I am : I , probably N , very probably F . And after IDK.
    The IEI descr fit me really well, but I have an hard time to say that I dont use (Smilies for function in this forum... Original !)
    EII descr fit too to me.
    Ive spend a lot of time reading theory.
    Its funny in a way.

    Now you have the rights to pose me questions you want. One day I will be typed.
    Thx

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Hey im french and ive struggle a long time with mbti, and now Im more into socionic (The model seems to be better).
    And I dont know my type
    I am : I , probably N , very probably F . And after IDK.
    The IEI descr fit me really well, but I have an hard time to say that I dont use (Smilies for function in this forum... Original !)
    EII descr fit too to me.
    Ive spend a lot of time reading theory.
    Its funny in a way.

    Now you have the rights to pose me questions you want. One day I will be typed.
    Thx
    Welcome, noid.

    Do you think that any of the particular quadras fits you best? You've narrowed your possible type down to either a Beta or a Delta, which are opposite quadras.

    Do you have a sense of the possible types of the people closest to you--friends, romantic interests?

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    [/quote]Do you have a sense of the possible types of the people closest to you--friends, romantic interests? [quote]

    Yes but it always change, according to my understanding of things.
    When I go first into mbti, after a short time i was thinking that ive understand very much things that was posing problem with me, and understand my view of the world. After that this view never stop to change cause I learned always new stuff and see that my pseudo-understanding was wrong.

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    Do you have a sense of the possible types of the people closest to you--friends, romantic interests?

    Yes but it always change, according to my understanding of things.
    When I go first into mbti, after a short time i was thinking that ive understand very much things that was posing problem with me, and understand my view of the world. After that this view never stop to change cause I learned always new stuff and see that my pseudo-understanding was wrong.
    Well, just tell us anything you can think of about yourself, if you wish.

    OR

    Why do you think you are introverted rather than extroverted--how do you define those two things?

    Why do you think you are feeling rather than thinking?

    Also:

    What do you think are the differences between introverted sensing (Si) and extroverted sensing (Se)?

    What do you think are the differences between introverted feeling (Fi) and extroverted feeling (Fe)?

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    We have named this type The Individualist because Fours maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others. Fours feel that they are unlike other human beings, and consequently, that no one can understand them or love them adequately. They often see themselves as uniquely talented, possessing special, one-of-a-kind gifts, but also as uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. More than any other type, Fours are acutely aware of and focused on their personal differences and deficiencies.

    Healthy Fours are honest with themselves: they own all of their feelings and can look at their motives, contradictions, and emotional conflicts without denying or whitewashing them. They may not necessarily like what they discover, but they do not try to rationalize their states, nor do they try to hide them from themselves or others. They are not afraid to see themselves “warts and all.” Healthy Fours are willing to reveal highly personal and potentially shameful things about themselves because they are determined to understand the truth of their experience—so that they can discover who they are and come to terms with their emotional history. This ability also enables Fours to endure suffering with a quiet strength. Their familiarity with their own darker nature makes it easier for them to process painful experiences that might overwhelm other types.

    Nevertheless, Fours often report that they feel they are missing something in themselves, although they may have difficulty identifying exactly what that “something” is. Is it will power? Social ease? Self-confidence? Emotional tranquility?—all of which they see in others, seemingly in abundance. Given time and sufficient perspective, Fours generally recognize that they are unsure about aspects of their self-image—their personality or ego-structure itself. They feel that they lack a clear and stable identity, particularly a social persona that they feel comfortable with.

    While it is true that Fours often feel different from others, they do not really want to be alone. They may feel socially awkward or self-conscious, but they deeply wish to connect with people who understand them and their feelings. The “romantics” of the Enneagram, they long for someone to come into their lives and appreciate the secret self that they have privately nurtured and hidden from the world. If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are. The outsider therefore comforts herself by becoming an insistent individualist: everything must be done on her own, in her own way, on her own terms. Fours’ mantra becomes “I am myself. Nobody understands me. I am different and special,” while they secretly wish they could enjoy the easiness and confidence that others seem to enjoy.

    Fours typically have problems with a negative self-image and chronically low self-esteem. They attempt to compensate for this by cultivating a Fantasy Self—an idealized self-image which is built up primarily in their imaginations. A Four we know shared with us that he spent most of his spare time listening to classical music while fantasizing about being a great concert pianist—à la Vladimir Horowitz. Unfortunately, his commitment to practicing fell far short of his fantasized self-image, and he was often embarrassed when people asked him to play for them. His actual abilities, while not poor, became sources of shame.

    In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings. When Fours look inward they see a kaleidoscopic, ever-shifting pattern of emotional reactions. Indeed, Fours accurately perceive a truth about human nature—that it is dynamic and ever changing. But because they want to create a stable, reliable identity from their emotions, they attempt to cultivate only certain feelings while rejecting others. Some feelings are seen as “me,” while others are “not me.” By attempting to hold on to specific moods and express others, Fours believe that they are being true to themselves.

    One of the biggest challenges Fours face is learning to let go of feelings from the past; they tend to nurse wounds and hold onto negative feelings about those who have hurt them. Indeed, Fours can become so attached to longing and disappointment that they are unable to recognize the many treasures in their lives.

    Leigh is a working mother who has struggled with these difficult feelings for many years.

    “I collapse when I am out in the world. I have had a trail of relationship disasters. I have hated my sister’s goodness—and hated goodness in general. I went years without joy in my life, just pretending to smile because real smiles would not come to me. I have had a constant longing for whatever I cannot have. My longings can never become fulfilled because I now realize that I am attached to ‘the longing’ and not to any specific end result.”

    There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.

    Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.

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    I identify honestly really with this description of enneagram 4 for ex.
    Im often in a struggle of this type : ive perhaps the wrong personnality for acomplish my ideal...
    Ive a sense of self but if i begin to introspect this end with endless logic\feeling shifting with statement like "i dont have personnality i just choose to act in certain way and my impression of personnality come from reflection of how i act" , extrapole at other, see relationship in a new angle, change the idea of base, feel that i was untrue most of my life ect...

    the kaleidoscope stuff is a really good image on the article

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    Your posts convey randomness, irrationality(Socionics-wise) and -perhaps-that you are ethical.

    The "i dont have personnality i just choose to act in certain way and my impression of personnality come from reflection of how i act" statement may imply you don't value . So.....

    Alpha quadra, irrational: SEI (ISFp) ???
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Wrong post i will respond when im on my pc not iphone

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    Your posts convey randomness, irrationality(Socionics-wise) and -perhaps-that you are ethical.

    The "i dont have personnality i just choose to act in certain way and my impression of personnality come from reflection of how i act" statement may imply you don't value . So.....

    Alpha quadra, irrational: SEI (ISFp) ???
    Why Alpha ? where do you state something which imply alpha quadra ?
    its fun how do you take what I say seriously, while I have a hard time to determine if im serious or not.
    If Im S, i suck at S (Im absolutely not "grounded")
    If Im Fe, i suck at Fe (Im not really social, even if im on the right mood ).
    I have a hard time to leave bad feeling (often throwed when im paranoid about a stuff that one other can potentially have thinked about me), Ive understand that its Fi ?
    In cognitive function test, I always end with high Ni and Ne (I think cognitive function test sucks, but its probably a good way to determine if I have a 1st or sec N in my function, whatever N type is)
    I can be for example Fi Ne Si Te with really weak te wich dont allow me to organise my thougt in a efficient way (resulting in other seeing me as irrationnal...)


    No you can see a bit more how I think... Sadly ive not the time to say more

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Why Alpha ? where do you state something which imply alpha quadra ?
    its fun how do you take what I say seriously, while I have a hard time to determine if im serious or not.
    If Im S, i suck at S (Im absolutely not "grounded")
    If Im Fe, i suck at Fe (Im not really social, even if im on the right mood ).
    I have a hard time to leave bad feeling (often throwed when im paranoid about a stuff that one other can potentially have thinked about me), Ive understand that its Fi ?
    In cognitive function test, I always end with high Ni and Ne (I think cognitive function test sucks, but its probably a good way to determine if I have a 1st or sec N in my function, whatever N type is)
    I can be for example Fi Ne Si Te with really weak te wich dont allow me to organise my thougt in a efficient way (resulting in other seeing me as irrationnal...)


    No you can see a bit more how I think... Sadly ive not the time to say more
    1. Socionics is not related to MBTI in any way. doing MBTI cognitive function tests or taking MBTI self-report inventories will not help you in determining your sociotype.
    2. Don't operate under dichotomies (N vs. S, T vs. F, etc.). It is inaccurate. Put the primary focus on Socionics information elements. Know what these elements are and what they mean.
    3. Research/do more studying on Socionics topics/theory. Wikisocion is an... *ahem*... alright source, as well as socionics.us.
    4. Use Model A to identify types. By "Fi Ne Si Te" I assume you mean EII. By the way, EII, as a rule, has weak . But EII, being base, displays his rationality using rather than .

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    1. Socionics is not related to MBTI in any way. doing MBTI cognitive function tests or taking MBTI self-report inventories will not help you in determining your sociotype.


    >> Ok

    2. Don't operate under dichotomies (N vs. S, T vs. F, etc.). It is inaccurate. Put the primary focus on Socionics information elements. Know what these elements are and what they mean.

    Yes, its what Ive made. I use the dichotomies example in order to let see you indirectly that there is problem with the fact Im a Fe or S. Ive reasoned more in term of IM.



    3. Research/do more studying on Socionics topics/theory. Wikisocion is an... *ahem*... alright source, as well as socionics.us.

    Ok I will read socionic.us, I was more into wikisocion before.


    4. Use Model A to identify types. By "Fi Ne Si Te" I assume you mean EII. By the way, EII, as a rule, has weak . But EII, being base, displays his rationality using rather than .

    Ok.

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    Looking at this page :
    http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml


    criteria : number of point I relate on Rationality/number of point I relate on Irrationnality

    perception : 3,5/3,5

    physiology : 3/3

    emotions : 4/1

    strengths : 0/3

    weaknesses : 0,5/1,5

    behavior in relationships : 1 / 2


    One hypothese is that Im EII Ne subtype... This can explain why Im between irrationnal and rational.

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    PS : I look probably stuck beetween INFp and INFj, its because test show always something beetwen (Often INFp first choice followed really closely with INFj)
    I dont want to test again cause I understand too much question compared to theory, this can form a bias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    .... 2. Don't operate under dichotomies (N vs. S, T vs. F, etc.). It is inaccurate. Put the primary focus on Socionics information elements. Know what these elements are and what they mean.
    Where did you get this from? It states in Socionics.us that you have listed yourself under Introduction to Socionics page:
    The 16 socionic types differ on four axes (called 'dichotomies'): rationality/irrationality, extraversion/introversion, intuition/sensing, and logic/ethics. Each type has one characteristic from each of the dichotomies, making 16 possible combinations.
    and in Wikisocion: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Dichotomies


    Noid, here are some questions for you to answer about yourself:

    Think of people you have disliked or admired, what made you like or dislike them? How do you call judgements about other people? What personality characteristics do you value in them?
    What personality characteristics do you value in yourself?
    How would your friends and parents describe you? What would they never say about your personality?
    What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?
    What do you think the world is lacking in the most?
    What tends to stress you out the most?
    How do you act when you're stressed out?
    When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Which do you like more: starting up new projects or seeing them to completion?
    What motivates you?
    Do you spend a lot of time on planning and preparing for the future or do you mostly deal with things in the present moment as they come?
    Describe an event you remember that you thought was a lot of fun. What made it be so fun for you?
    Describe a situation that made you feel at your finest and a situation that made you feel inferior. What about these situations made you feel so?
    When thinking do you tend to see mostly positive possibilities (i.e. how things could possibly be) or negative possibilities (i.e. how things cannot work out)?

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    Think of people you have disliked or admired, what made you like or dislike them? How do you call judgements about other people? What personality characteristics do you value in them?

    I dislike closed minded ppl, like all ppl on the net , I dislike too serious ppl, focused on detail ppl, ect...


    What personality characteristics do you value in yourself?

    Its strange but its what I make now : self doubt. I cant understand how to live without doubt in a sense : it allow me to reach always a better understanding of things, even if Im not conscious about this understanding, making always better things ect.
    It seems that I dont value doubt because I want to value doubt, I value doubt because its what I make naturally. But it can be inverted ^^ idk.
    Its just an example, I can value and sense other type of value if you want


    How would your friends and parents describe you? What would they never say about your personality?
    - anxious, complex, not organized, creative, "mind changing", sometime they get the impression that im intelligent, other time dumb ect, paranoid
    - organized, tactful, and many other


    What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?

    material things , too hard




    What do you think the world is lacking in the most?

    First shot :
    The world lack of cohesion. if for example idea, action will be know in direct time for each "instance" (ppl , groupe of ppl ect), many incoherence between different act, idea or other stuff can be avoided. What I like is the idea of direct information.
    For ex we can imagine a "mother" system who rely all spirit in the world...jskljlqs ok I stop beeing freak you get the idea. Its the first response I can give, there is probably many other interpretation possible.




    What tends to stress you out the most?

    my mind


    How do you act when you're stressed out?

    I try to act normal ^^, if I need to socialize I generally drink or sometime smoke (some bad stuff happen to me with smoking so Ive stopped), or if im too stressed simply try to stay at home


    When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Which do you like more: starting up new projects or seeing them to completion?

    Generally I feel better at the beginning and the end of a project and Ive bad tendency to forget the project in the middle (lose motivation)
    beginning : slight apprehension on my capacity, but rapid excitement
    end : stress (made me accelerate my work, feel more alive ^^), happy to have accomplished smth
    middle : nothing

    What motivates you?

    playing music, to play with music (I see music more like painting, playing with structure, feeling, sonority... Im into hard electronic music. The more its weird the more its good)


    Do you spend a lot of time on planning and preparing for the future or do you mostly deal with things in the present moment as they come?

    preparing for the future



    Describe an event you remember that you thought was a lot of fun. What made it be so fun for you?

    Generally a fun moment is a moment where ive made a stupid action. I dont want especially to describe.




    Describe a situation that made you feel at your finest and a situation that made you feel inferior. What about these situations made you feel so?

    At my finest :
    speak about music, speak about how I understand other, how I understand me, speak about something I know or Ive thinked
    Inferior :
    Speak about me
    speak about value. Im the first to ask other speak these value, but I have hard time to share mine. Its as if I think to much about the purpose of the value than the value itself : I have a hard time to say, "thats it", "things are like that", but Im more prone to begin to think "if I think A this can imply B and C so this is a good value". But strangely I can easily critic a social group im attracted into when it dont go in the direction that ive imagined, or valued, ect. And I randomly react easily in value fight.
    When im engaged into a fast paced action where we need to pay close attention to detail
    repetitive work




    When thinking do you tend to see mostly positive possibilities (i.e. how things could possibly be) or negative possibilities (i.e. how things cannot work out)?

    Depend, can be both. Probably most often negative one.
    edit : you speak about future possibitility ? I misinterpret... I just responded about future possibilities.
    Last edited by noid; 04-06-2011 at 03:40 PM.

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    Being honest I think basically that Im a EII, but :
    -what I dont understand into EII description is that they seems to really stick with value, and I dont get this impression for me. And im not really a routine lover. When I get stuck into routine, its generally in this moment that I feel bad.
    -Into IEI, the "mystical" and "guessing the future" dont fit me really well, but the way they seem to think is really ok for me, especially the way they mull their understanding, they hate when someone ask them to do smth, their dizorganization as a mode of organization, their need to express smth.

    Finally socionic confuse me more than MBTI (im infp into mbti, and identify much more with the description than INFj description).

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Where did you get this from? It states in Socionics.us that you have listed yourself under Introduction to Socionics page:

    and in Wikisocion: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Dichotomies
    The way I see it, dichotomies have different dispositions and tendencies, but it is not 100% reliable. Furthermore, it does not address all that it needs to address. Saying "I am think I am T over F" is not nearly so good as saying "I think I am Ti over Fi", or some statement such as that. Going purely by dichotomies, I would definitely be ILI, but people here seem to think I am LII, so it seems to me that there is something more to it than dichotomies. Remember that the type makes the dichotomies, not the other way around. The three or four letter notation is merely an indicator. Since the type determines the dichotomies, there are at least some correlations, but none which could be readily understood apart from knowing the type. Ti is very different from Te, Ni is very different from Ne, etc. xNTP is not saying much, functionally. That is how I understand it, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Being honest I think basically that Im a EII, but :
    -what I dont understand into EII description is that they seems to really stick with value, and I dont get this impression for me. And im not really a routine lover. When I get stuck into routine, its generally in this moment that I feel bad.
    -Into IEI, the "mystical" and "guessing the future" dont fit me really well, but the way they seem to think is really ok for me, especially the way they mull their understanding, they hate when someone ask them to do smth, their dizorganization as a mode of organization, their need to express smth.

    Finally socionic confuse me more than MBTI (im infp into mbti, and identify much more with the description than INFj description).
    Thanks, from what you have written I would go with IEI.
    See if this profile fits you: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=INFp
    By MBTI I'd type you as INFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    ... Remember that the type makes the dichotomies, not the other way around. The three or four letter notation is merely an indicator. Since the type determines the dichotomies, there are at least some correlations, but none which could be readily understood apart from knowing the type. Ti is very different from Te, Ni is very different from Ne, etc. xNTP is not saying much, functionally. That is how I understand it, anyway.
    I think about it the other way. It is the information elements that make up the types and information elements are inherently dichotomous constructions. Therefore the four dichotomies - rationality/irrationality, extraversion/introversion, intuition/sensing, and logic/ethics - lie at the very heart of type construction. People who go by T vs F rather than Ti vs Fi simply forget about extraversion/introversion one. But I understand what you mean as I've seen discussions of N vs S or F vs T not giving any consideration to orientation of these functions.

    I am not sure what you mean by "Going purely by dichotomies, I would definitely be ILI". Going by dichotomies LIIs and ILIs are on same side by three out of four of above dichotomies - both are introverted, thinking, intuitive types. The only dichotomy where they differ is the rationality/irrationality one. ILIs are dominant in irrational element while LIIs are dominant in rational element.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    I think about it the other way. It is the information elements that make up the types and information elements are inherently dichotomous constructions. Therefore the four dichotomies - rationality/irrationality, extraversion/introversion, intuition/sensing, and logic/ethics - lie at the very heart of type construction. People who go by T vs F rather than Ti vs Fi simply forget about extraversion/introversion one. But I understand what you mean as I've seen discussions of N vs S or F vs T not giving any consideration to orientation of these functions.

    I am not sure what you mean by "Going purely by dichotomies, I would definitely be ILI". Going by dichotomies LIIs and ILIs are on same side by three out of four of above dichotomies - both are introverted, thinking, intuitive types. The only dichotomy where they differ is the rationality/irrationality one. ILIs are dominant in irrational element while LIIs are dominant in rational element.
    Hm, merely a difference of perspective, I suppose. The dichotomies exist, but in my opinion, the elements should not be broken down into dichotomies. I am not sure of the relationship between dichotomies and elements, but I think the elements exist in and of themselves.

    I'm afraid I must end this conversation here, as I am now having conflicting viewpoints concerning this topic. Maybe I will respond again when clarity has been reached.

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    Hi all.
    I cant pursue your debate, I dont have enough knowledge about socionics.
    Thx for your help.

    I identifie with INFp profil, yes.
    But, finally, I think Im more INFj, and many INFj description profile are simply WRONG, hahaha.
    Ive a really hard time to say that I dont use Fi much more than Fe, and have a hard time too say that my first function is Ni. Im hard with myself, and use probably more F and T in order to leads N and S. Its a main point for saying that Im more Fi Te judging mode and Ne Si accepting mode.

    I identify easily Ni, but dont think that I use always it : but I use sometime extensively it when Im alone, when I need to understand smth in deep, or when a discussion goes abstract (for example really strange discussion about how human decision affect the natural equilibrium of the continuity of world event, necessitie of decision in order to try to make new acceptable and wanted equilibrium). But there is always a "how things should be" feeling behind this.
    Its how I see the things, which can be divided into 2 axis :
    Fi Strong use >> filter my interest, how things should be
    Ni moderate use >> consolidate value, speak about core of the value and impact
    Ti bad use >> try to use it when its necessary in order to get better view of things for feeding Ni
    Se random use >> defend value, want to attain goal, seeing other as unmotivated about some stuff determined as interesting by Fi

    Ne >> look for possibilities into my interest, "what for me" style of thougth, what I can make with this elements , and see the possibility that Ni is wrong, seeing direct implication of speech, ect. Si >> database , Te >> organise thought into a coherent stuff.


    Fe : suck at it, really. Most of my sociability come probably from using Fi and Ne together.


    This use of Ni probably cause many problem to me. This has probably to do with my paranoid tendency, I cant explain this clearly.



    Now for the "INFj description is wrong" stuff : what I dont identify for me is the "routine lover" (Im perhaps outwardly into a routine, but its like that we dont have choice...) ,I dont get the appareant stubborness of the INFj thinking mode (I was perhaps before, but not anymore now...) and this trait tend to aggravate me into other... I support easily change of goals (I begin a bit apprehensive cause Ive imagined many things about the goal, but get quickly excited), welcome often new information (it often break the boredom and let me think about something), and general "new", Im quite easy to brainwash (this have caused problem to me...))I dont identify with the Si part too (need for relaxing), but its perhaps normal cause its unconscious.

    Im probably a Ne subtype. A more irrationnal approach to things, ect.




    Some electro song I like, this can perhaps help you, ive see that socionic is linked to music in some way LOOOL






    Last edited by noid; 04-07-2011 at 12:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    H
    I identifie with INFp profil, yes.
    But, finally, I think Im more INFj, and many INFj description profile are simply WRONG, hahaha.
    Ive a really hard time to say that I dont use Fi much more than Fe, and have a hard time too say that my first function is Ni.
    If you're IEI it would make sense that you identify with both Ni and Fi, since Fi would be your demonstrative function, so it's as easy to tap into as your base (Ni) it's just that you don't value it over your creative (Fe)
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    what ?
    Its a bit the same thing as ive said isnt it ?

    EII can identify with Fi Ni but repulse Fe
    IEI can identify with Ni Fi but repulse Ne

    I see me more "repulsing" Fe than Ne or Im blind about Ne or Fe definition

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    what ?
    Its a bit the same thing as ive said isnt it ?

    EII can identify with Fi Ni but repulse Fe
    IEI can identify with Ni Fi but repulse Ne

    I see me more "repulsing" Fe than Ne or Im blind about Ne or Fe definition
    these might help if you haven't seen them yet

    some explanations of the what Ne, Fe, etc, mean here. They're called Information Elements or IE's
    http://socionics.us/theory/information.shtml
    http://socionics.us/works/socion2.shtml#1
    and
    http://socionist.blogspot.com/2006/1...revisited.html

    here's the link to what functions are and how they're used
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Functions
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    Check out the INFj profile then http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=INFj see if this one fits you better. Another type you might want to check that uses Ni is ISFj http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=ISFj.

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Ni moderate use >> consolidate value, speak about core of the value and impact
    My dominant Ni doesn't work to consolidate values. It works the opposite. It yields a certain internal perspectivism that doesn't let me hold strong opinions because the answer is always "it depends on the situation". Ni is about seeing cause-effect relationships, sensing that everything is interconnected, becoming aware of large-scale processes unfold over time. It is also about having a good sense of timing, wanting to conserve time and not waste time on meaningless activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Te >> organise thought into a coherent stuff.
    Te is about external organization not internal organization (of your thoughts) - it is an extraverted function. Neither Te or Ti organize thoughts really. Even types which have almost non-existent Te can organize their thoughts very well. This is not something measured by socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    But there is always a "how things should be" feeling behind this.
    Its how I see the things, which can be divided into 2 axis :
    Fi Strong use >> filter my interest, how things should be
    Can you expand on this? How do you filter your interests? How do you know how things should be? Why do you think this is work of introverted ethics?

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Ti bad use >> try to use it when its necessary in order to get better view of things for feeding Ni
    ...
    Fe : suck at it, really. Most of my sociability come probably from using Fi and Ne together.
    Can you explain why you think you have trouble with Ti and Fe?

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Se random use >> defend value, want to attain goal, seeing other as unmotivated about some stuff determined as interesting by Fi
    Se doesn't really have to do with motivation or goal-setting. It is more about ease of interacting with the physical world around you to bring about what you want, seeing potential of action of objects that surround you.

    How do you typically defend your values?

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Ne >> look for possibilities into my interest, "what for me" style of thougth, what I can make with this elements , and see the possibility that Ni is wrong, seeing direct implication of speech, ect. Si >> database , Te >> organise thought into a coherent stuff.
    Well both Ni and Ne see possibilities. Ni thought sees negative possibilities "how things cannot be" while Ne sees positive possibilities "how things could be". Outwardly at least Ne types seem to project some dose of optimism due to this.

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    well
    Ive just "implemented" a way to see things in my head, it appear that I was false. Totally false, probably.
    And do you see me IEI, EII or other ?
    If you can give a way to understand Ni (a bit of your thought process for ex), it can be good
    Can you explain why you think you have trouble with Ti and Fe?
    I think I will stop to read about this and re-get a life, ive other things to make.

    PS : my interest is what in a sense reflect me. Im somewhat dependant of this type of info, this is the main reason that I fall often into psychological stuff like socionic mbti ect.


    PS2 : For me Fi is when you listen a piano part, and say "no it should be played an other way". Just an exemple I take from another source (a forum if I remember). Im at ease when I do this, good reason to think Ive inert ethics.
    Last edited by noid; 04-07-2011 at 04:07 PM.

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    Yes I take it for this ! fabulous video
    Seriously my pseudo is generally no_id and has nothing to do with this video, but for some reason this forum dont accept underscore.

    sensing that everything is interconnected
    Im not sure, really, I was thinking that it was extroverted intuition...
    If I begin to brainstorm about smth for example, its as if I discover little by little (or test perhaps, IDK) all connexion who come to my mind , and all take more and more sense and I get the impression that all is connected (strange gut impression, "knowing all" sometime without being able to say what exactly , ect)...
    The fact that you dont speak outwardly about this type of idea or how do you understand this or that dont mean thats because the word introverted is used !

    Ive to admit that I see often reality with some idea of reference, too. And these idea can change often. Ni, Fi , Ne , DNFKLZ , i dont know.
    Last edited by noid; 04-07-2011 at 04:23 PM.

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    Well, none of us is in charge of determining your type--you're the person in the best position to figure it out.

    Some of what you've said here leads me to think you are Ni/Se-valuing, rather than Si/Ne-valuing. Just an impression I get from your orientation to seeking meaning, and from your identification with Enneagram 4, which is a type that sort of quests for identity. Self-reflexive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    If I begin to brainstorm about smth for example, its as if I discover little by little (or test perhaps, IDK) all connexion who come to my mind , and all take more and more sense and I get the impression that all is connected (strange gut impression, "knowing all" sometime without being able to say what exactly , ect)...
    Yeah that sounds like intuition. Do you make connections between things you have observed in past? Of do you make new connections about how things to see how they could be?

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    Hey ! how are you
    Im EII-Ne subtype.
    This is the better explanation I see.
    dot.
    next.

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    With some new insight, im definitely EII, Ne or Fi idk. A bad one.


    Ive know all my life that there was something wrong with me, and always searching what with theory, having self destructing tendency ect. Now i know : its the use of Fi, wich is perhaps one of the most sucking function ever. With Fi you are good at criticize, good at beeing self righteous, good at idealize, and action/social sphere handicaped. This lead to unatainable ideal, and ultimately knowing that youll never attain what you wanna do/be. You want to be different and at the same time go along.

    Another issue is with my family, my father is the most unbearable EII I know (mega Fi dom and mega Te narcissistic, at a point I doubt the definition of Fi being "empathic". Hes the master of useless and inefficient task, too. Me too but I firstly try to calm down instead of beeing agitated and OCD for nothing.), and my mother seem sometime Si Te, Te Si. Ive a better relation with my mother. if for example ive an emotionnal problem and want to speak about
    1) my father negatively moraly judge when hes in good mood, or want to hear nothing and retreat passive aggressively if hes in normal mood (really obstructionist about psychological stuff and emphaty in general. The stuff is I KNOW that hes very emotionnal and emphatic, but its impossible for his to express it. Hes incapable of it. I can accept this sometime, but other this is really unbearable to have opinion on all what is possible and never following a more funny stream of idea. Im happy to dont have inherited this trait and being able to show a minimum of emphaty toward other, able to make other see stuff diferentely when they have problem, or just reassure).
    2) My mother generate a never ending flow of what I should do, in a reality-stuck manner. Ive questionned the type of my mother for long time, Si is ok, I would say Si Te Te subtype, Te Si Si subtype. or perhaps Si Fe. She is a mix of Si Ne aspirationnal and Te Fi aspirationnal and some Fe ^^, but its incredible how the basic relationship stick with socionic theory (INFj with ESTj or somewhat Si Te axed). Better than mbti who see FiNeSiTe with FeNiSeTi (I never see this case in my life). Strangly im really attracted to Si user, more than Te... idk why.

    Im more and more stressed. Its now 2 year at least that I havent see the light. I think Ill end with a really sucking passive aggressive personnality if it continue like that.


    No, seriously, without much self pity, im the typical EII for 90% sure. My basic dream is to work on natural phenomen (I like nature, mostly insects and plants ^^) or work into music (ive somewhat good musical skill, just lack the motivation to learn accademicaly before trying to express something). Wich has nothing to do with computerscience where im now, but it isnt really really bad.
    Last edited by noid; 05-31-2011 at 10:54 AM.

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    Hey Noid. This is the first time I've seen this thread. I just had one thought for you: Have you considered ILI?

    It could explain why you waffle so much between IEI and EII. IEI and ILI share Base Ni (as well as Si-Role, Se-Suggestive, and Ne-Ignoring). And ILI may seem to be like the EII when more focused on Fi-Mobilizing (and ILI and EII are both very weak with Se).
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    Intertype relations. That's the ticket.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Have you considered IEE yet? They're Intuitive, Ethical, and Irrational, they've got everything in the same blocks as EII too - IEEs are Extratims, which has nothing to do with how shy or outgoing someone is necessarily - I think you're a shy IEE

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    Hey !
    no really I think im more a NeSi ego, im more into theory, ect than relating to archetype. Ive hard time to see some Ni into me, I dont speak like Ni user. Fi is really discernible (if this world exist in english ^^) : depression and massive use of projection when relating to ppl.
    But thx for your advice.
    Really I ask me often about IEE, cause their behavior correspond more when im in a good state, but at the same time they dont seem able to "decompose all feeling" as I can do . Fi creative appear a bit less open to introspection throught "good and bad" and "theorize" after, its more "im like that , im like this", without question this too much.

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    Hey Noid. This is the first time I've seen this thread. I just had one thought for you: Have you considered ILI?

    It could explain why you waffle so much between IEI and EII. IEI and ILI share Base Ni (as well as Si-Role, Se-Suggestive, and Ne-Ignoring). And ILI may seem to be like the EII when more focused on Fi-Mobilizing (and ILI and EII are both very weak with Se).
    Ive considered ILI too, really unlikely I think. You know, I think IEI and EII are often confused cause they are somewhat the same, somewhat often scaterred, and a tendency to be somewhat passive.
    EII seems often like to consider them as romantic and artistic and are likely to mistype IEI. And are really not likely to retype themself especially if they are absolutely identified with Fi (Ive a hard time with a mbti INFJ on personalitycafe wich have absolutely Fi problem, speak about value or way to see themself, and the discussion go bad cause really stubborn.).

    Just like that, what ive see IRL :
    Te dom : on track, usually plan stuff REALLY in advance.
    Si dom : funny, are really aware of what happen into their body, appear "living" and into the present
    Fi dom : Fi Se : I get the impression that I can have a discussion but really stubborn. Their mind is composed only of 2 state : right and wrong. I need to see more of them perhaps... Fi Ne : consist of different type of ppl, sometime aggressive/mystic defender of a cause, sometime really about helping other, sometime really calm but a bit narcissic inside, sometime weird, sometime avoidant. Less likely to share aggressively strong value than Fi Se, more likely to have a delusionnal self.
    The worst about Fi is that they try often to make you see the world as they see (I make this too). When really into Fi, you get the impression of someone who seems to have strong opinion but dont seem interested about if they following it or no. Depending of the context, I find this more than unsupportable; especially if the valued stuff are aggressive. Ive tendency to make this to, but really try to avoid this issue.
    Ne dom : The funniest type I know especially if they get angry : really tangential and multi thinking, throwing 100 different potential or actual joke at time. If you get aggressed by a Ne dom youll have hard time to not laugh, a things wich can have a bad issue.
    Ni dom : trust me or not, never see one.
    Fe dom : social master. In a Fi view sometime are boring cause all is good, all ppl are my friend, wich send an impression of not knowing themself (in a Fi view... can be false), dont seem to reflect feeling like Fi. I know 1 ENFj, and really, I dont get the impression that something can turn bad into life for him.
    Se dom : never see one, but ive see Se user, they often are likely to try to make you move, do smth when you are passive. Even if there is no goal.
    Ti dom : never see 1, but really interested about. Its probably the second frequent EII mistype, cause the obstinate place of the Ti function into EII.
    Last edited by noid; 06-01-2011 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Now for the "INFj description is wrong" stuff : what I dont identify for me is the "routine lover" (Im perhaps outwardly into a routine, but its like that we dont have choice...) ,I dont get the appareant stubborness of the INFj thinking mode (I was perhaps before, but not anymore now...) and this trait tend to aggravate me into other... I support easily change of goals (I begin a bit apprehensive cause Ive imagined many things about the goal, but get quickly excited), welcome often new information (it often break the boredom and let me think about something), and general "new", Im quite easy to brainwash (this have caused problem to me...))I dont identify with the Si part too (need for relaxing), but its perhaps normal cause its unconscious.
    Noid my dear, about your type, or mine...anyway. Let's proceed. If I told you that "I AM EII WHO HAS LOW ENERGY AND COMPLAINS ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME AND I ABSOLUTELY NEED AN Si atmosphere of relaxation and wishing someone else would do things for me so I wouldn't" what type would you type me?

    Next question:
    You said you don't relate to Si and hence you're the exact opposite of me with this regard; how do you type yourself?

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    I was in a bad phase for multiple reason when writing this thread, and even if Im always in a bad phase Im more aware of why I hesitate beetween type on this thread. Mainly because I was coming directly from MBTI, where Si description seem flawed, for example for ISFJ (SiFe in mbti). As I understand Si now, I have it thats for sure, as Fi, Ne, ect.
    I see too now how the fuck all info Ive shared about myself was majorly wrong, probably cuz Im defensive and was on a period of a sort of renewal due to some stuff in my life.


    Noid my dear, about your type, or mine...anyway. Let's proceed. If I told you that "I AM EII WHO HAS LOW ENERGY AND COMPLAINS ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME AND I ABSOLUTELY NEED AN Si atmosphere of relaxation and wishing someone else would do things for me so I wouldn't" what type would you type me?
    I dont know, EII ^^ ? Im not sure to get it here, seem obvious you are trying to caricature Te sugestive and Si stuff ?

    Why do you come now to ask these question ? Ive not a high degree of doubt for my type. Im just not sure if Ne or Fi subtype : it seem I fall beetween the two, as if my whole personnality hesitate.

    edit : ive depersonalization disorder, this is probably what have make things hard to trust that Im a F acc type.
    Last edited by noid; 01-13-2012 at 06:22 PM.
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Im not sure to get it here, seem obvious you are trying to caricature Te sugestive and Si stuff ?
    You think so? Didn't cross my mind, honestly...

    Question of ethics though, when I say honestly in this particular situation, am I not being honest about it?

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    I dont know personnaly, that come from projection in a sense. honesty is a personnal things, it depend of what you personnaly think and your motivation behind it, behind how you act....
    Only you have the "power" to determine if honest at a particular time or not; and it seem you have the ability of this if you ask to yourself the question. It mean perhaps to that you kind of fear you arent honest. Why ?

    [hide]All now will see how begin a LSE-EII gay relationship [/hide]

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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    it seem you have the ability of this if you ask to yourself the question. It mean perhaps to that you kind of fear you arent honest. Why ?
    I didn't ask myself anything. Thanks anyway.

    [hide]All now will see how begin a LSE-EII gay relationship [/hide]
    You didn't hide it well, this is how you do it:

     
    All now will see how begin a LSE-EII gay relationship


    And:

     
    I don't think so

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