delta NFs, a question about emotions

[Marietta]

how do you feel in bigger groups? do you easily show your F in a group, if it is group which you don't feel close to emotionally (a group you are in but which you didn't choose, eg. workplace, university, school, etc) or do you cut your emotions/manifestation of emotions, and prefer to keep them private and not discussed or even a secret, just to leave it for yourself and selected few?

Since your F is introverted and more about bonding with selected few, are you sometimes perceived as thinkers, or unemotional by people who you don't see as "your people"?

[Galen]

Groups suck. I've never been one to truly associate myself with any one group over another, and I tend to not really care about group events unless individual people I really like are doing them. But don't conflate this with Fi by itself though: more group-minded Fi people can easily find use for it in groups, just in the same way that relationship-minded Fi people find use for Fi in those situations.

Furthermore, how does one "show F"? If you're talking about "being emotional" then I'm always emotional, and everybody always sees me being emotional because I have emotions. I don't think people would call me 'unemotional,' not in any sense of the word, but I guess people tend to see me as brooding or 'waiting' when I'm not being directly engaged. This is much more a matter of instinct stacking though, not socionics.

[Marie84]

As Galen said, you need to be a bit more specific on what you mean by "F", I know you're referring to "feeling" but there's Fi and Fe and they manifest in different ways.

My main issue with being in groups is that it's pretty much unheard of to be in one where everyone is compatible with everyone else (I'm not just referring to type compatibility, but also outside issues), although I've gotten lucky a few times and ended-up being in more compatible groupings.

Something I have noticed, and it may be related to the DCNH theory, is that regardless if the people I'm with are compatible with me or not (keeping in mind I'm referring to longer contact, not instantaneous first reactions) I'll always lean on the side of being rather obvious about my sentiments towards them and about whatever else it is that's being discussed. I just find it too difficult to maintain a facade in the face of adversity, which has worked out being both good and bad, but all in all more good for me at least.

In terms of how I think people perceive me, I guess that depends again on the individual and how much they know me, I'd guess most people would think I'm introverted at a first glance, possibly depressed or even cold at times since I rarely show, or care to show, a lot of vivid emotions.
In the Socionics sense, it wouldn't be odd to confuse a lot of Fi dominants with Fe PoLR's and vice versa for the general shared disdain of excessive displays of Fe

[Marietta]

well, with "showing F" I was refering to manifesting your emotionality, expressing and talking openly about emotional life, emotional attitudes, problems and private stuff while being with a group you don't feel related to in this case. Everyone is emotional but not everyone is considered emotional or manifests emotions.
I think I might be enfp (the other possibility would be entp maybe). People in groups (like class, course etc) often perceive me as distant, unemotional, cold, sometimes over-logical, cutting off the emotionality, while I think of myself as highly emotional but cutting people off from my emotionality and expressing it if I don't feel that we could relate (which is often) and I don't feel that the group (or individuals) really care. Maybe it is cutting my emotionality off in a way, cause in a group which I perceive as distant, I tend to "tap" my emotions and use evasive, overly psychological language to talk about them if I have to.
I have a problem with "groups" in itself, I almost never feel 'related to a group' in general. I am always focused on individuals and relations with them, and thinking about group as a whole is negative. I generally feel as an outsider in groups and it makes me hide my emotions and reduce talking about my emotional and private stuff to the minimum. If I find someone special for me in a group, then I tend to concentrate on that and loose interest in other people in the group. It is not just about new groups, usually it sticks with me. I was wondering if it was something that could be related with Fi, with sth else or it is just my own mess *.*.

[Suz]

I one-by-one work my way through the group, Fi-bonding and getting "in" with as many people as I possibly can, and (once a majority's on my side) I then "easily show my F" and emote in big, public groups.

THIS. Is me. And by "showing one's F" I interpreted that as meaning demonstrating Fe.

Personally, I'd rather not save it for a "selected few", as I've (honestly) never met someone I wouldn't wanna try to connect with.

I am thinking this is meant along the lines of being anti-cliqueish, which I also relate to. Very much so indeed. However, since a lot of people ARE cliqueish unfortunately, this actually ends up meaning that only a select few people end up becoming my bosom friends. I still try to unclique the cliqueish people though. They really need to broaden their horizons imo.

[Simon Ssmall]

how do you feel in bigger groups?

ok

do you easily show your F

that sentence makes no sense. Define "show your F".

in a group, if it is group which you don't feel close to emotionally (a group you are in but which you didn't choose, eg. workplace, university, school, etc) or do you cut your emotions/manifestation of emotions, and prefer to keep them private and not discussed or even a secret, just to leave it for yourself and selected few?

I let go and am very animate with people I know. With strangers I usually take the role of observer, I am not shy per se but I prefer to observe rather than show myself. To me it is important to see what the person is about whether through questions/conversation or just through observation before I can be myself around him.

Since your F is introverted and more about bonding with selected few, are you sometimes perceived as thinkers, or unemotional by people who you don't see as "your people"?

I dont think normal people think in terms of "thinkers vs feelers". I can be seen as unemotional when there is lots of anger/rage/drama around me or any other negative feeling. I like to keep those feelings inside and not let myself go with them. And yes, people who are "my people" (lol) can sometimes see that other side of myself I tend to keep to myself on normal conditions. Also note what I wrote about observing strangers first.

[April]

It depends on the group and how I'm feeling that day--possibly more the latter. I know that probably doesn't help you much.

If I'm not in the mood for a group activity, I'll be standoffish and more logical-seeming probably. People have accused me of being cold and aloof when they don't know me very well. If I'm in a goofy and "extroverted" mood in a group setting, I'll probably make a lot of inappropriate jokes. When people from this community see me on cam, they often say I seem disconnected and discontent, even when I'm not feeling that way.

[Krig the Viking]

I one-by-one work my way through the group, Fi-bonding and getting "in" with as many people as I possibly can, and (once a majority's on my side) I then "easily show my F" and emote in big, public groups.

Personally, I'd rather not save it for a "selected few", as I've (honestly) never met someone I wouldn't wanna try to connect with.

This is an excellent description of Creative Fi. Marie's and April's descriptions are excellent descriptions of Base Fi.

I like this thread. Very useful.

[ashlesha]

how do you feel in bigger groups?

it depends on the people in the group. generally fine i guess. i'm usually only peripherally aware of everybody except a few people.

do you easily show your F in a group, if it is group which you don't feel close to emotionally (a group you are in but which you didn't choose, eg. workplace, university, school, etc) or do you cut your emotions/manifestation of emotions, and prefer to keep them private and not discussed or even a secret, just to leave it for yourself and selected few?

i'm really quiet in groups with people i don't know well, and probably show less emotion than i do otherwise. because there are so many various sympathies and opinions and i can't anticipate how what i say will rub against each person there. i guess i show more "F" with the few people in the group that i'm most aware of (if we splinter) or when i'm not in a group (because i just say and show more of myself in general that way). in a group i'm about as non-verbally emotionally expressive as i usually am, which is slightly.

Since your F is introverted and more about bonding with selected few, are you sometimes perceived as thinkers, or unemotional by people who you don't see as "your people"?

i think i seem restrained and non-reactive, but i doubt i seem unemotional. i'm not sure. i've been told i seem aloof but the people who have told me i seem unemotional have been Fe egos who actually know me fairly well, so i guess its not a group thing per se.

[Slacker]

I don't know what "do you easily show your F in a group" means. Do I talk to people? Yes, but probably largely because I'm extraverted, maybe not so much because I'm an F type. I don't think people would generally call me unemotional.

[Suz]

In terms of how I think people perceive me, I guess that depends again on the individual and how much they know me, I'd guess most people would think I'm introverted at a first glance, possibly depressed or even cold at times since I rarely show, or care to show, a lot of vivid emotions.

In the Socionics sense, it wouldn't be odd to confuse a lot of Fi dominants with Fe PoLR's and vice versa for the general shared disdain of excessive displays of Fe

Yeah i noticed this as well.

[NinjaTim]

I'd say displaying F in any form in a group has a lot to do with the 'nurture' side of the 'nature vs nurture' debate. Some people I have known for some time become very shrewd, calculating and observant from a distance in any group setting be it old friends or new people. They keep their cards very close to the chest, but when the group is whittled down to 2 or 3 they become once again very bright, animated people and express their emotions much more.
I know these people had difficulties in various developmental stages through childhood, and I think this lack of emotion in a group setting may be a result of some form of classical conditioning, with an association between emotional displays and pain of some kind.

[Suz]

I'd say displaying F in any form in a group has a lot to do with the 'nurture' side of the 'nature vs nurture' debate. Some people I have known for some time become very shrewd, calculating and observant from a distance in any group setting be it old friends or new people. They keep their cards very close to the chest, but when the group is whittled down to 2 or 3 they become once again very bright, animated people and express their emotions much more.
I know these people had difficulties in various developmental stages through childhood, and I think this lack of emotion in a group setting may be a result of some form of classical conditioning, with an association between emotional displays and pain of some kind.

I dont think it's necessarily someone becoming "shrewd, calculating and observant". I think a person withdrawing could happen for a variety of reasons--the person might just not know a lot of the other people in the bigger group, or might not want to associate with some of those people, or just feels uncomfortable for whatever reason. Or the person might just not feel like socializing the whole time. It could also be socionically explicable, where perhaps a bunch of the people in the bigger group are the person's superegos, conflictors, or supervisors, or a merry vs serious issue, or an sx vs so issue.

[anndelise]

how do you feel in bigger groups? do you easily show your F in a group, if it is group which you don't feel close to emotionally (a group you are in but which you didn't choose, eg. workplace, university, school, etc) or do you cut your emotions/manifestation of emotions, and prefer to keep them private and not discussed or even a secret, just to leave it for yourself and selected few?

Since your F is introverted and more about bonding with selected few, are you sometimes perceived as thinkers, or unemotional by people who you don't see as "your people"?

For me, it would depend on a variety of influences, including where the group is meeting at, the reasons for meeting, member attitudes and behaviors, and then any personal stuff going on in my life at that time, such as how energetic I feel, how scattered I feel, etc etc.

However, I'll provide a fairly recent example of having joined a local group a year and half ago.

It is a big group, with an average of 40 people that show up in a large dinner hall. The tables are set up in a U shape, but the room is so big, and the noise is so great that you're limited to talking with the people directly to your side or in front of you. Though before the meal is served, and after it's been eaten, there is a lot of roaming to talk with other people.

The group meets once a month. Richard (SiFe) and I go together and sit together.

Initially we were welcomed with hugs and greetings. Richard remembers people's online names and has to remind me as I suck at remembering names. Its the kind of group where there are expected....formalities...in terms of who you talk to first, and such. Under normal conditions, the men do the initiating of conversations, with the women following suit afterwards. However Richard's and my relationship is such that I'm the one that is the conversation initiator or the one that would 'formally' get talked to first. However, since I am the female, it creates an odd dynamic between us and many of the others in the group. Because of this preconceived idealized formality, the men (and women) in the group often don't know how to treat me nor what kinds of topics might be 'safe'. The women can't relate to me because I'm in the opposite position than they are. Some men fear me, as if I'll somehow emasculate them. And some of them just aren't sure if I'm 'safe' to talk to as they would one of the other guys. And Richard is so darned silent that it was 9 months before anyone heard him speak.

I don't mind the hugging, as long as it's not a feel-er-up kind of hug. And I'm actually quiet a huggy person myself. So hugging, patting on the back or shoulder or such, or standing with arms around waist while chatting isn't unusual for me.

I never really spoke up more than simple answers for the first 6 months. Remember, this would be 6 meetings with some online interaction. I did write online though. My writings online, however, were often interpreted as me being ... less scattered than I feel in person. They often described me as 'rational' and 'sane'. The edit button does wonders. But I was hesitant to speak in the actual group because of a few things, such as conflicting ideals, opinions, my lack of firm belief on anything, my low level of experience in the groups main focus, and a number of personal issues such as low self confidence and often feeling misunderstood.

I didn't finally speak much until one of the members had invited us to his house to show us something of interest to us. Initially I was nervous, but then as he joked and talked, I joined in the joking, and then it was like I couldn't stop, lol. He was surprised at how much I talked with him that day. And during meetings after that I was more vocal. It was like finally the wall had broken through, and people that were familiar with him became more open with me, which allowed me to be more open with them, until such a point as Richard and I finally feel as if we have something akin to a family, or a very close network of friends. (At least so long as I'm careful of who I share my ideas and thoughts with.)

A few of them held back still, due to the difference in Richard's and my roles compared to the norm of the group. However, at one point in October of last year, they witnessed something that finally let them realize that I would be open to the kinds of things that they tend to discuss amongst themselves. At first they tentatively talked with me, but as I was relaxed and open, we were finally able to talk shop, which was the final acceptance of me with the the group.

Well, part of the group. About half of the members I have little contact with. Not enough things in common. And frankly, I can't stand their so called 'leaders' that some of them worship. Nor do I put up with their fake smiles, fake friendship, and backstabbing.

So, to more specifically answer your questions:
I feel shy and unsure in bigger groups. This is often perceived as me being withdrawn or distancing myself from the group. Some even interpret it as me thinking that I'm too good to associate with them.

I like huggy greetings, but I'll wait until the other person initiates it with me before I'll start initiating it with them.

I don't like kissing greetings, even ones on the cheek. This has more to do with fear of getting oral herpes or some other disease than anything else, though. Some accept that. Others interpret it, again, as if I think I'm too good for them to touch me.

I prefer to see happiness on people's faces when they are generally happy to see me. I feel irky when it's faked. Eventually I'll just avoid greeting that person.

I don't mind talking about experiences, and thoughts and emotions on those experiments. I actually enjoy that kind of chitchat. But I often feel that my experiences makes quite a few a bit uncomfortable so I'll often refrain from sharing my side of things...which means that I don't talk as much as them, which leads them to thinking that I'm an introvert or that I'm passing judgment on them. Though, I don't hide my past, and will mention it if I feel it is relevant to something in the conversation, I just won't go into details on it. A small handful of people who feel similar in this group have approached me in private to discuss these more darker experiences...and will seek me out when the groups meet, expressing that I'm one of the very few they feel most comfortable around because they feel that I understand them, what they're going through, and aren't judging them about it.

Virtually everyone in the group who has conversed with me in person after that first 6 months quickly recognizes that I'm not as clearly spoken in person as I am on that forum. My sense of humor is more obvious in person than on the forum. And that I'm nowhere near as uptight as they initially thought I was. In fact, when 'trouble's a brewing' (non-dramatic), I'm now one of the first people they look at as I tend to joke and play and cause impish little 'problems'. (I'm sure a few of the people wish that I'd "go back to being how I first was", .) I also tend to blatantly snub many of the formalities of the group, though I still keep the respect part there. However, it has become painfully clear to some, and highly amusing to others, that I'm not to be invited to the very formal gatherings, as I'm sure to get all sorts of people in trouble...and this interferes with the intent of those particular gatherings. [insert angelic look]

Richard and I have taken to going to a smaller group meeting, as we prefer the more intimate setting. But lately it's gotten bigger, and while only about 20 people, the noise is deafening. We're 'withdrawn' simply because we can't hear a damned thing but noisenoisenoise, or we're sitting beside people that we have nothing to talk about with.

And lately my back issues have been severely aggravated. So we'll skip meetings, or only go for a short while. When I'm there, I'm quite busy just trying to get through the pain. Because of it, I'll be distracted during conversational attempts, not be smiling, or will have a 'pained smile' on my face. Sometimes we'll just up and leave early. Some people interpret this as us not liking them, or us thinking we are too good to associate with them. Those who've actually spent time with us away from the meetings recognize that something's definitely off with me, and will check on me later.

Of course, the one half of the group that keeps putting negative interpretations on my behavior is the same people that I perceive to be fake, and the same people that worship the one set of 'leaders' that I have lost all respect for.

[anndelise]

I dont think it's necessarily someone becoming "shrewd, calculating and observant". I think a person withdrawing could happen for a variety of reasons--the person might just not know a lot of the other people in the bigger group, or might not want to associate with some of those people, or just feels uncomfortable for whatever reason. Or the person might just not feel like socializing the whole time. It could also be socionically explicable, where perhaps a bunch of the people in the bigger group are the person's superegos, conflictors, or supervisors, or a merry vs serious issue, or an sx vs so issue.

[Froody Blue Gem]

In groups of people who I know, I focus on my place, how I fit in, the personalities of the different people, their interests. If we have common ground, I'll know what to say to those people more. I've been told that I'm the glue that holds the group together on a few occasions, but I'm quieter and in the background. It's more in small groups where I serve this role but in large groups, I get lost in the crowd. My fi comes out once I am used to the people. I'm not openly emotional, or over the top, I rarely am unless I'm at a point where they bubble over. It is always working but it doesn't become evident until I'm at ease. In groups where I'm not familiar with the people, or just larger groups in general, there is a sense of being in the social space, but not completely belonging. I try to figure the other people out around me.

I enjoy the company of the people, but the deeper connection aspect doesn't come naturally to me. That deeper connection is what I long for at times. It takes me a while to open up, especially when I get so easily lost in a group.