Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: What is Introverted Socionics?

  1. #1
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default What is Introverted Socionics?

    Title says all.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  2. #2
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    5,935
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't get it. The title hardly answers the question. Is this supposed to be some sort of joke?

  3. #3
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    http://socioniko.net/ru/1.begin/introsoc.html

    The bad translation distorts the context.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  4. #4
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    5,935
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    http://socioniko.net/ru/1.begin/introsoc.html

    The bad translation distorts the context.
    I'm sorry, we appear to be suffering from some sort of miscommunication here. I'm going to assume the role of the tourist, and you shall assume the role of the native who doesn't understand me.

    I DON'T SPEAK POLLACK. DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? I AM TRYING TO FIND THE TRAIN STATION. WHERE IS THE WATER CLOSET?

  5. #5
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:
    1/0
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's made for introverts.

  7. #7
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    5,935
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:
    Aha, I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:
    Aha, I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:
    Aha, I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:

    Me: Reads a Russian article on Introverted Socionics. Is confused.
    Me: Comes to the16types thinking they know what's what
    Me: Makes a thread asking "What is Introverted Socionics?"
    You: Confusion due to sparsity.
    Me: Posts the link from which I gained the awareness of Introverted Socionics
    You: More confusion
    Me: Reply with this post in this manner:
    Aha, ic.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    1/0

  8. #8
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Force my hand's description is a good read http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...9&postcount=14
    That's kind of interesting.

  9. #9
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wallachia
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    2,195
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    To be strict, "Introverted" does not exist in Socionics, not related to Model A or the functions. We use "Introverted" for convenience to address Bodies information and Extratim types, Aushra did that, too. However, Socionics Extratim/Introtim differ from extroverted/introverted in several aspects:
    - introversion is a continuum, an attitude, people may be ambiverted when it's not possible to tell apart the degree of reservedness. In Socionics there's no such thing as "degree of extroversion", as a sociotype can be led by an either Bodies (objects, bodies, stimuli, instances) or Fields function (rules, relations, classes, qualities).
    - extroversion/introversion are related to the self, to the subject vs the external world. From Wikipedia: introverted person: "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self"; extroverted person: "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life". This is not valid in Socionics, where the perception of reality is based on the type of information the functions deal with, regardless of the subject - relationships can be perceived between separate external things, subjects or concepts with no notion/awareness/interest in self - take Ti-Base as an example of a most impersonal Introtim manifestation.

    In Socionics, the type attitude is described over both subjects and objects, each when applicable, for example subjects come in when we talk about their social views - society, people, values, etc. Aushra wrote:
    [Extroverts:] Propensity to change the outer world in favor of the subject. Tendency to worry about the subjects and objects, changing their relationship. In contrast, the introvert tendency to change subjects and objects for the sake or benefit of the relations between them. In an extrovert relationships between people in relation to the people themselves - secondary: the relationship must be such that what people need. In the introvert, on the contrary, no relationship should be adapted to people, and people or their behavior to the relationship: if there were contradictions, should change people, not relationships.

    We can say that for the extrovert constant in the external world are the subjects and objects. For an introvert this constant is the relationship between subjects and objects, and these relationships evoke.
    ---

    As a rule of thumb, to differentiate classical/Jungian meaning from Socionics:
    - classical E/I: object(s)/subject(s)
    - Socionics E/I: objects,subjects/relationships.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

  10. #10
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Introversion means the P function is Focal whereas the J function is Diffuse. Extroversion means the opposite. There is no need for the postulation of a Object/Field dichotomy in relation to functions rather than types.

    Focal P means the person understands states better than transitions. An analogy that i like to use is that of driving a car: the introvert thinks in terms of "going 60Mph is good", whereas the extrovert thinks in terms of "stepping on the gas is good". The first leads to a stable behavioral mode that tries to lock down a certain state at the risk of stagnating, whereas the latter leads to a dynamic mode that keeps moving from one state to another at a risk of overshooting its mark.

  11. #11
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,469
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    IIRC,

    They came up with it in Kiev in the early-mid 1990s. In "Introverted" Socionics every relationship is given an integral type starting with ILE as the basis. So:

    identical = ILE
    dual = SEI
    mirror = LII
    conflictor = ESI
    etc..

    The article I read says that the assignment of types to relationships isn't arbitrary. Identity is always ILE because, according to the theory's proponents, ILEs understand everything that goes on around them -- likewise, identity is a relationship of maximum understanding between partners.

    Duality is always SEI because this is the most good-natured and friendly type -- likewise, duality is the best and most friendly relationship.

    I don't know if there are other systems of assigning integral types based on differing interpretations of the types, or if there is a system of introverted socionics based on arbitrary assignments of types to relationships, or that uses a basis different from ILE.

    One corollary that can be drawn that should arise in practice:

    Imagine some contact between an ILI, LIE and an IEI. Instead of a linear supervision of the IEI by the LIE, the IEI would find that he has the advantage over the ILI - LIE relationship in so far as these two constitute a pair. That is because the integral type of their mirror relationship is LII, for whom the IEI is benefactor.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  12. #12
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    bizarre. that sounds like something i really don't want to be supporting.

  13. #13
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    To be strict, "Introverted" does not exist in Socionics, not related to Model A or the functions. We use "Introverted" for convenience to address Bodies information and Extratim types, Aushra did that, too. However, Socionics Extratim/Introtim differ from extroverted/introverted in several aspects:
    - introversion is a continuum, an attitude, people may be ambiverted when it's not possible to tell apart the degree of reservedness. In Socionics there's no such thing as "degree of extroversion", as a sociotype can be led by an either Bodies (objects, bodies, stimuli, instances) or Fields function (rules, relations, classes, qualities).
    - extroversion/introversion are related to the self, to the subject vs the external world. From Wikipedia: introverted person: "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self"; extroverted person: "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life". This is not valid in Socionics, where the perception of reality is based on the type of information the functions deal with, regardless of the subject - relationships can be perceived between separate external things, subjects or concepts with no notion/awareness/interest in self - take Ti-Base as an example of a most impersonal Introtim manifestation.

    In Socionics, the type attitude is described over both subjects and objects, each when applicable, for example subjects come in when we talk about their social views - society, people, values, etc. Aushra wrote:

    ---

    As a rule of thumb, to differentiate classical/Jungian meaning from Socionics:
    - classical E/I: object(s)/subject(s)
    - Socionics E/I: objects,subjects/relationships.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Force my hand's description is a good read http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...9&postcount=14



    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Introversion means the P function is Focal whereas the J function is Diffuse. Extroversion means the opposite. There is no need for the postulation of a Object/Field dichotomy in relation to functions rather than types.

    Focal P means the person understands states better than transitions. An analogy that i like to use is that of driving a car: the introvert thinks in terms of "going 60Mph is good", whereas the extrovert thinks in terms of "stepping on the gas is good". The first leads to a stable behavioral mode that tries to lock down a certain state at the risk of stagnating, whereas the latter leads to a dynamic mode that keeps moving from one state to another at a risk of overshooting its mark.


    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    IIRC,

    They came up with it in Kiev in the early-mid 1990s. In "Introverted" Socionics every relationship is given an integral type starting with ILE as the basis. So:

    identical = ILE
    dual = SEI
    mirror = LII
    conflictor = ESI
    etc..

    The article I read says that the assignment of types to relationships isn't arbitrary. Identity is always ILE because, according to the theory's proponents, ILEs understand everything that goes on around them -- likewise, identity is a relationship of maximum understanding between partners.

    Duality is always SEI because this is the most good-natured and friendly type -- likewise, duality is the best and most friendly relationship.

    I don't know if there are other systems of assigning integral types based on differing interpretations of the types, or if there is a system of introverted socionics based on arbitrary assignments of types to relationships, or that uses a basis different from ILE.

    One corollary that can be drawn that should arise in practice:

    Imagine some contact between an ILI, LIE and an IEI. Instead of a linear supervision of the IEI by the LIE, the IEI would find that he has the advantage over the ILI - LIE relationship in so far as these two constitute a pair. That is because the integral type of their mirror relationship is LII, for whom the IEI is benefactor.
    Thanks, this is what I was looking for.

    Ffs, you guys don't give me much credit do you?

    Thanks anyway.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  14. #14
    Marie84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    2,359
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I apologize for the misunderstanding, I read the title as Introverted Sensing *stupiddyslexia*
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

  15. #15
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Ffs, you guys don't give me much credit do you?

    Thanks anyway.

  16. #16
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Also related:
    http://socionics.us/philosophy/ethics.shtml

    Socionics has an extraverted ethical system; the qualities of individuals are seen as determining the relationships between them, and not vice-versa.
    Obviously. But I thought it was interesting because Socionics has a (/) perspective, yet / still permeates the system. We have 16 types and 16 relationships, but we still cannot predict all the activity that goes on.

    It also takes / for people to willingly come together and form bonds (implied relationships).

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/college_guide/images/Credit-cards.jpg
    Cold hard cash > Cards.

    That's how they get you.


    /Gamma Economics 101
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  17. #17
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah, but even in implied relationships like the ones I build are hard without the willing and conscious participation of those involved (in reality).

    Since I don't like force, that's never an option for me. What's the best option, benevolent leader.

  18. #18
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Actually, that's interesting. It explains why I've seen so many Gamma SFs with the attitude of "I can change this person". Also perhaps Delta NFs and waiting out for people to change for the better?

    Te/Fi is the qualities of the relationship are fixed, but the qualities of the individuals are not.

  19. #19
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Egbert Human View Post
    Actually, that's interesting. It explains why I've seen so many Gamma SFs with the attitude of "I can change this person". Also perhaps Delta NFs and waiting out for people to change for the better?

    Te/Fi is the qualities of the relationship are fixed, but the qualities of the individuals are not.
    Right. Use this format to make your own analogies:


    This is what I mean by Communism/Socialism being / and Capitalism being /. The former has clearly defined commands that allow for a more conscious efficient use of resources, unlike the latter that has unclear and undefined expectations that the economy conforms to.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  20. #20
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Communism is inherently Ti, I'm sorry.

    Before I begin, think of history. The Cold War was LIE America trying to enforce its Te ideals of free market capitalism on various Beta regimes that went to Communism. Also of note is the various disagreements amongst nations following Communism as to what it is and how to apply it. Think Maoism vs Stalinism. This is a really common thing, and has happened in the past with Christianity, and is even visible happening today within Socionics. (Which from a perspective is utterly ridiculous, Rick noted that Socionics has largely degenerated into a back-and-forth of defining and redefining and bickering over definitions and meanings of largely really useless terms, to paraphrase.)

    Also, free market capitalism is Te. It assumes that the market is dynamic and largely just takes care of itself by its own internal forces. Planned economies instead impose a defined plan (ohai ) for everyone to do. "Explicit plan" should sound very obviously External Statics of Fields.
    Last edited by male; 03-22-2011 at 06:45 PM.

  21. #21
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i come across tons of Te/Fi valuing people with an attraction to socialist ideas. the socialist party in my country in particular seems to be absolutely swarming with ISTps.

    Their latest two leaders:



    both dead-obvious ISTps as per my estimation.

  22. #22
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Egbert Human View Post
    "Explicit plan" should sound very obviously external Statics of Fields.
    fiks
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  23. #23
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It also takes / for people to willingly come together and form bonds (implied relationships).
    Ummm, sorry but what the fuck?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  24. #24
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    fiks
    Heh, whoops. Cheers for the catch.

  25. #25
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    LOL U R WRONG


    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Ummm, sorry but what the fuck?
    Think of as necessary relationships and as willing relationships.
    Your skeleton needs structure to hold your body up. But you don't "need" a partner to hold you up.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Egbert Human View Post
    Communism is inherently Ti, I'm sorry.

    Before I begin, think of history. The Cold War was LIE America trying to enforce its Te ideals of free market capitalism on various Beta regimes that went to Communism. Also of note is the various disagreements amongst nations following Communism as to what it is and how to apply it. Think Maoism vs Stalinism. This is a really common thing, and has happened in the past with Christianity, and is even visible happening today within Socionics. (Which from a perspective is utterly ridiculous, Rick noted that Socionics has largely degenerated into a back-and-forth of defining and redefining and bickering over definitions and meanings of largely really useless terms, to paraphrase.)
    This is thinking in terms of content and the way it the systems are applied. Notice how you diverged from my economic focus?

    The approach that the officials / governments took in the Communist states in the 20th century were definitely Beta, specifically ISTj. And I don't disagree that Capitalism applied in America amounts to / ideals, but the economy itself..it's an Alpha program.


    Also, free market capitalism is Te. It assumes that the market is dynamic and largely just takes care of itself by its own internal forces. Planned economies instead impose a defined plan (ohai ) for everyone to do. "Explicit plan" should sound very obviously External Statics of Fields.
    In Laissez faire Capitalism, there is no ruling party dictating explicitly WHAT and HOW MUCH will be produced. The economy is implicitly driven by internal factors(mood, temporary needs, wants, curiosity, materialism, consumerism etc). You know those scenes of fictional business moguls, where they have a meeting an discuss what the public wants and then they plan to accommodate the public's expectations by coming up with new products? That's /. If you want to make money, "you gotta give the people what they want". The activity of Capitalism's economy is undefined and reactive. This makes it .

    Communism has an / economic program. There is a ruling party dictating WHAT and HOW MUCH will be produced. The economy is driven by external factors(the demands of the government). The government doesn't give a damn about the individual wants of the people, it focuses on their combined needs(or it should). The activity of Communism's economy is defined and active. This makes it .

    The middle road is that they are both Beta/Gamma(Decisiveness).
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  26. #26
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wallachia
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    2,195
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    EyeSeeCold: independently of what others have said, I disagree with you. Not only that, but you're wrong, it's the other way around. Obviously, these things are not strictly related to Ti vs Te, however overall it's the opposite of what you say: regulations, design are Ti, needs, interest and profit over what actually *is* is Te. Te as information itself excludes anything related to how things "ought be".

    You're totally wrong and there's no other way around that but to seek and correct what you misunderstood or something, somewhere in your reasoning there's a speculation that I don't even try to look for, as the result it's anyway wrong (might be helpful, though). Make a revision or something, I'd say - but first at least accept the possibility that you may have it upside-down.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

  27. #27
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    EyeSeeCold: independently of what others have said, I disagree with you. Not only that, but you're wrong, it's the other way around. Obviously, these things are not strictly related to Ti vs Te, however overall it's the opposite of what you say: regulations, design are Ti, needs, interest and profit over what actually *is* is Te. Te as information itself excludes anything related to how things "ought be".
    But see, I know profit is under , but profit is not what I'm focusing on. Yes, the capitalists ends may be profit, but the means are /. The economy is still reactively conformist and undefined. And people who want to make a profit have to work around this.

    You're totally wrong and there's no other way around that but to seek and correct what you misunderstood or something, somewhere in your reasoning there's a speculation that I don't even try to look for, as the result it's anyway wrong (might be helpful, though). Make a revision or something, I'd say - but first at least accept the possibility that you may have it upside-down.
    I'm not wrong. The way I'm looking at it is different. I'm working at an archetypal level not a structural level.

    I acknowledge my own ignorance, but it is because I understand why I'm thinking the way I am and why you guys think I'm wrong. This higher dimension of understanding permits me to dismiss outside claims of being incorrect. Furthermore I'm not trying to impose an absolute. It's just the perspective I prefer, it's just another way I see the patterns of life.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    x/0 does not equal infinity, I don't think.

  29. #29
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i agree that capitalism involves far more Fe than people typically imply. the capitalist "game" is all about marketing products (Fe) and designing (Ti) them in attunement to people's wishes and drives. Te is just the arbitrage intermediate to the process.

    capitalism also relies on things like property laws to function in anything like the successful capacity it is observed in in modern times.

    that being said, i wouldn't support the notion that capitalism is "typically" Ti/Fe either. its something much richer and diverse than any single function axis encompasses.

  30. #30
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    Today, 03:14 PM

    x/0 does not equal infinity, I don't think.
    System crash.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    System crash.
    How sad. Mine says 6:14.

  32. #32
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,625
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In introverted socionics you associate each type T with a different relationship RT in such a way that RS(T) = S*RT for any relationship S and type T. Gulenko somehow had the idea that duality is an SEI relationship because it's comfortable and whatnot. But of course you could associate duality with any of the other 16 types and have 15 additional versions of Introverted socionics. It's kind of a cute idea.

  33. #33
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    the whole thing becomes a joke when they start talking about types supervising intertype relations...

  34. #34
    the Omniscient Nexus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    TIM
    INTp
    Posts
    1,408
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    introverted socionics is obviously socionics that you do when you are not on the 16types.info and are so embarrassed to discuss other people's egos in front of them

  35. #35
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,625
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    And the point of it would be… ? lol
    Are you seriously asking this question? This is socionics, lol.

  36. #36
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Are you seriously asking this question? This is socionics, lol.
    Ashton has a quota of demonstrating how obviously LIE he is that he has to fill each day.

    That's my theory anyway.

  37. #37
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Have you ever actually contributed anything to a thread that isn't you spouting some canned Te attitude that has nothing to do with anything being discussed?

  38. #38
    Creepy-male

    Default

    One of life's unsolvable mysteries, perhaps.

    Let's put it to the panel and see if they can figure it out.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •