Actually, I'm interested in Creatives as well. So, Te Creative/Fe PoLR vs. Fe Creative/Te PoLR.Could someone (multiple sources, hopefully) describe them, define them, or otherwise help me to understand the differences better?
Te PoLR vs. Fe PoLR
Actually, I'm interested in Creatives as well. So, Te Creative/Fe PoLR vs. Fe Creative/Te PoLR.Could someone (multiple sources, hopefully) describe them, define them, or otherwise help me to understand the differences better?
Avoiding emotional vulnerability vs avoiding discursive vulnerability?
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
Going purely by anecdotal evidence (which isn't evidence at all, yes, I know), I experience Te-PoLR as a strange kind of mental dissonance whenever I try to do things in a way that doesn't "feel right" even when that way is the way that makes the most sense to do it. Essentially, I just like to do things in a way that I feel good about doing them, and sometimes that actually works and accomplishes the goal, and sometimes that means taking a retardedly roundabout, ridiculous way of going about things.
Like, for instance, if I'm playing a strategy game, I'll try to play according to an enjoyable theme and reject any options that don't fit in with that theme, even if those options would be more effective or naturally complement the kind of strategy my "theme" calls for.
This might be NTR, but it can also manifest as a real difficulty just buckling down and doing work that I don't "feel" is actually helping me at all. I will do any ridiculous god damn task you can possibly ask me to do at work because that's what I have to do to not feel guilty about taking home my paycheck at the end of the week, but if I have to do work in a class for a major that I've already figured out I don't want to have anything to do with, I'll just not do it. Even if it means failing the semester and wasting a bunch of my parents' money, I just can't do it.
It's like every part of me screams and rails against it, because I already know if won't help me, but at the same time, it doesn't make any sense for me to just throw away whatever previous work I've put into that class and it especially doesn't make sense to waste a shit-ton of money like that. But even with that knowledge, that it doesn't make sense, and that I'm just setting myself up for some seriously nasty shit in my future, I still just can't make myself care enough to finish.
Interesting.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
Got any examples?Originally Posted by Sir Knight
Alright, so, like roleplaying? And you don't do something if it doesn't fit the role you are?
Hm... that is interesting. I can relate with not wanting to do the work, but I would probably still do it anyway. At least so I pass.
Wow, this exactly me right now as a senior in highschool. Although, to be fair, I never really put any effort into my classes from the beginning.
I don't know if it's good but there is an article about polr on this russian site (in English):
From the source:
Topics breaking communication:
Te polr: Discussing inexpedient actions, obtrusion of errands, didacticism
Fe polr: Bursts of emotions, offences, obtrusion of one’s emotional experience
"topics breaking communication" In other words in real relationships functioning will be very low if strengths are opposite.
Last edited by jughead; 03-20-2011 at 11:45 PM. Reason: bs
Excellent; I hadn't seen that site before.
Quaero Veritas.
That is a very good description of those two PoLRs and why SLI are likely to be very emotionally explosive, even violently so sometimes at things that brush them the wrong way.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
To give you one example, My friend and I are heavily in to Race for the Galaxy. And before I knew better, I would usually let my Start World determine my strategy.
So if I, for instance, drew Damaged Alien Factory, I'd go for the all-Alien strategy. The only problem with that was that half of the Alien worlds are high-cost settle worlds and the other half are high-defense military worlds. Picking both production and military is counter-intuitive since the strategies work against one another, so you have to choose one or the other. The other problem is that, as I've learned, if you don't get the cards to support a strategy either in your starting hand or in your first couple of draws you should probably abandon that strategy for one that focuses on what you have in front of you.
But I used to not do that. I wanted to do the Alien strategy. So I'd keep drawing through the deck to try and find cards I could use, and usually ended up losing whenever I did this sort of thing just because my friend could puke out production worlds faster than I could and before I knew it, all the victory chits were gone while my little Alien engine was just starting to rev up. I could have used DAF's production ability to fuel any of a number of winnable strategies that were tossed away in favor of Aliens.
So, it's like that, basically. I can't tell you is that's really NTR or not, but it's just kind of how I experience it. Sticking to methods until long after they have proved useful, if they ever proved useful in the first place.
Jesus, these are perfect. All of the Te-PoLR ones sound like exactly the kind of behaviors that drive me up a wall in conversation.
Nonsense. All evidence is anecdotal...
So, would you say that XEI types have difficulty doing rote work when necessary, or do they have difficulty determining whether the work is necessary in the first place?
i like the term "emotional experience". it perfectly captures how Fe is concerned with emotional properties peculiar to events and moments rather than to any lasting attitude of the person.Topics breaking communication:
Te polr: Discussing inexpedient actions, obtrusion of errands, didacticism
Fe polr: Bursts of emotions, offences, obtrusion of one’s emotional experience
one difference between Fe and Fi is also that the latter interprets while the former does not.
Yes. I do not interpret emotions very well, I do know how to experience them deeply and richly, personally/subjectively so. Interpretation is quite objective. Experience is subjective...to some degree.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Interpretation is objective?
Wat?
Seems to me they could both easily be subjective, but I would think that interpretation is mostly always subjective, whereas the experience is usually subjective. I guess it could vary though.
Example:
1. Person 'A' is smiling and laughing (experience)
2. Person 'A' is happy (interpretation)
The interpretation may be logical, but it is still subjective, based on my own personal definition of what 'happy' is and how I "see" the experience. Eh, that's how it works for me, anyway. I don't see how interpretation could ever be objective.
But I thought introverted functions were subjective, regardless?
i see Fi as the "interpreting" of the two ethical functions. it just takes a greater amount of mental activity and concentration to reach the ethical judgment in Fi's case than it does in Fe's case. Fe just happens in a flash, 100% immediate.
Who cares if I have Te polr. I don't care anymore, and neither should you. A good friend of mine here sent me good advice one time in a letter, when I was kinda blaming all my problems on my Te polr. But who really cares? So what if I have certain certain black hole-ish things in my brain that I can never figure out, some problems are better left for other people to solve. Everybody has their psychological weaknesses. It's a big world out there, I can succeed just fine focusing on my strengths and what I know that I'm good at.
I'm only human. It's not like I can be immune or strong against everything. Being insecure about being insecure sucks. It's like an rpg game, really- you put your stat points where you want them to be and just accept and soak up your weaknesses like a man.
So I'm okay with being an artistic, sensitive guy that listens well and is empathetic and the person that people go to when their heart is broken and they know that I won't bully them or act condescending to them about it.... so what if I'm some moral didactic-y person, or however you spell it, that gay rants at you that you should be nicer to people. So fucking what. Who cares. If you obviously don't change to please me, why the hell would I change me to please you? So please, kindly fuck off and get over yourself and accept me for the cutsey shy widdle ****** that I am!!! You really have no choice.
Neurotically discussing my 'te polr' isn't really gonna get you anywhere, now is it? Like Renee Hunt said 'When Sam leaves Starr, who will be the problem?' Who will you stop scapegoating? I'm not picking on Ashton here, but I thought this forum was supposed to be a type of middle-class advocacy group for capitalism? Well then stop mentally masturbating at what the weak faggy IEIs are doing in the world and instead focus more about producing a good and or service that other people will want to spend money on. I, as well as any other IEI, can be easily controlled if you know how to tug at my heart strings as well as I can tug on yours.
Why burn a bridge when you can potentially have my money instead?
I only make myself easy to bully, so I can see your true colors. Yes it's kind of emotionally manipulative. Get over it. You're just as manipulative in your own little ways.
The world already has business men being business-y and estjs walking around all straight male confident like.
I can't make you love me, I can't make you stop hating me, I can't make you think that I'm nothing more than a weak pathetic fag with a 'Te polr'. You don't realize how hostile you're being, and I know that you don't care. And you're right: you shouldn't care. SO STOP CARING AND STOP MAKING THREADS LIKE THESE.
I will instead choose to find all this amusing, and I'm smirking here about it in my own little world. I can't control your love toward me- but I can control my own love toward you. And why not love you? It's not really for you, it's for me- and my own peace of mind and my sanity.
Lately there have been a lot of anti-IEI threads it seems.... and it's just getting old.
I'm sorry we suck, okay. But get over it and stop hating. You just do it because it's the internet and you can get away with it. You wouldn't act like that in polite company where other people would monitor your behavior.
You're right. I'm nothing. I'm a pillow mashmallow of mush. I'm just... a vacant area of space. I'm so pathetic and worthless. For actually having compassion and feelings, and not thinking the 'female parts' of my identity are weaknesses. I am a horrible person.... I have a WEAKNESS. AN INNATE WEAKNESS I CAN'T GET RID OF. I HAVE ETERNAL DARKNESS IN ME THAT I CAN'T EVER GET RID OF AND THINE DARKNESS IS CALLED 'TE.' WHATEVER SHOULD I DO. I SHOULD JUST KILL MYSELF FOR NOT BEING ALL BUSINESSY AND LOGICAL. IT WILL ALWAYS BE STRONGER THAN ME AND THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. AND THIS AMUSES YOU SO MUCH THAT YOU MUST CREATE 57U3278429342 INTERNET POSTS ALL DAY ABOUT THE SAME DAMN THING....
OOOOH THE UPPITY FAG HAS A WEAKNESS, YOU SAY. LET'S PUBLICALLY HUMILIATE HIM AND HOLD A CROSS UP TO HIM AND PUBLICALLY FLOG HIM AND SLAP HIM WITH A WHIP IN PUBLIC FOR BEING A BAD FAG. BAD FAG BAD FAG FOR HAVING A WEAKNESS FAG. YOU HAVE TE POLR AND IT WILL AWALYS BE STRONGER AND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE WEAKER. THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. YOUR GAY MAGIC SPELLS ARE WORTHLESS AGAINST IT. IT'S ALWAYS BETTER THAN YOU. AND YOU'RE ALWAYS WEAKER. AND THAT'S THAT. HOW DARE YOU ACT REBELLIOUS AND TOO STUCK UP SAYS GALEN FROM HIS CLOUDY VANTAGE POINT.
You only like me when I'm crying that's fucked up but also kinda hot- tears of hot throat fucking joy come to me as you throat fuck me with my weakness. With my own internal weakness against me, like the dark vampire that you are- and I just lay there and take it. Because I'm weak. Because I'm an IEI. Because I'm nothing more than something you spit on.
IT WILL NEVER END. THE CURSE. IS THERE A WAY TO BEAT THIS 'TE POLR' I WONDER? THIS LOOKS LIKE A JOB FOR....
THE 16 TYPES ADVENTURERS!
Let me fetch an example of this...
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hi maritsa. Have you found a good man yet? (I'm not picking on you by the way)
Hi, honey.
I'm not looking for a man. I'm living my life, the way I want to, and doing the things I enjoy. I'm sure he'll come around or that I'll meet him...sometime. I have a lot of personal goals that I'm working on.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
aww. you have a big heart you deserve only the best. <3
what sort of goals are you working on? I've been being very personal and selfish too lol.
One of my biggest goals, always, is to help my friends and family with whatever I can do. Selling off most of my books to clear room; exercising and trying to stay healthy.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Fe polr is not getting that other people value different things. It's universalizing the personal values. The person will try to show their values are somehow better than yours. Rigidity, discrimination, tunnel vision.
Te polr is inefficiency / not getting when facts render you wrong. Instead the fact is reinterpreted through an elaborate context. Semantic problems, argumentativeness, working inefficiently.
For rote work I wouldn't say so, no. I mean, getting locked into a procedure is actually rather enjoyable since you become so good at it you can reach a state of unconscious competence and do it with only the barest minimum amount of concentration expended towards it. Gives the mind time to wander at work.
As for determining when work is necessary or not, well, there are times when I'll realize I was doing something in a needlessly complicated way, or in a way that was taking longer when there was what should have been an obvious, quicker solution. Could be related to Te-PoLR.
Dude, what are you talking about? I was just trying to get some descriptions, and in no way attempting to belittle Te PoLRs. Just information gathering, is all. Where do you get the idea that this thread is anti-IEI? I think IEI's are amazing, personally.
It's BulletsandDoves. It's just what he does. Occasionally he'll say something of almost divinely inspired prescience and wisdom.
Most of the time he just kind of rants tangentially.
It's better just to watch than to interact. Like a windup Cymbal Monkey.
Comport yourself with civility, sir! I'll have you know that my mother was a cymbal monkey.
You are of good stock then, sir! A firm devotion to mindless repetition, forearms as thick around and as tireless as tree-trunks, chestnut fir of such a rich thickness, and the ever-present threat of tinnitus over-taking your hearing!
siuntal, i dislike hierarchy too and I am Te-dominant, I don't think that's related.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
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