Assymetric relations with parents

[Marietta]

I was wondering about children who are the supervisor and benefactor of their own parents. Anyone is in this kind of configuration?

It would be interesting to know how it affects the self-esteem and self-concept of a child. Also, how does it work when a child begins to form relationships outside the family and clashes with different types which he/she cannot supervise or benefit from. I think such child could be prone to difficulties with keeping a realistic and stable self-esteem. what do you think?

[redbaron]

my daughter (IEI) supervises her dad (ESE). It's been a source of some conflict. I understand and agree with nearly everything she says and try not to get involved but they end up having these disagreements, same as he and I used to, and it's uncomfortable largely because it's so hard for her to back down. If she's in a good mood and not too tired or hungry, she's better with respecting him but she usually still tries to make her point clear when they're working on a project or something and doesn't hold back what she thinks. For example, they were making a pie last weekend and I heard her say "no, that's definitely not going to work" lol! Usually it seems like he admires her. He sees her talent, he just doesn't "get" her motivations and inner life. She doesn't like to be wrong so she'll argue her innocence and accuracy on ANY point, which drives him crazy.

Lucky for her, she has TWO female dual friends at school. I think this helps her self-esteem immensely. Also, the fact that we're identicals helps too. Ultimately, I think she'll be fine due to these outside influences. She's had some slight troubles/misunderstandings with my IEE mom, who loves her of course, but cannot really give her what she needs. My daughter and my dad (SEI) get along great, much like I do with my dad. So that's good. It's funny having an identical for a daughter cause their relationships with everyone else tend to go similarly even though they're a different person and a different age. It's very interesting.

[squark]

I supervise my mom. We have a lot of respect and admiration for each other, but she finds my Fi lack amusing and ocassionally pokes fun of it, and she hates it when I explain anything to her. The more patient and carefully I explain, the angrier she gets, because to her I think it feels condescending. Sometimes she'll burst out things like, "I don't think like you! You're not helping. Let me figure this out myself!" It sometimes annoys her that I do things my own way, coming to my own conclusions, not putting a lot of weight on what she says, but she's also proud of that quality.

I can't say that it's affected my self-esteem one way or the other.

[pianosinger]

I supervise my mom and (I believe) benefit my dad.

I was always very "grown up" as a child. I kept to myself, did my own thing. I respected and obeyed my parents' wishes, and they trusted me and pretty much let me alone. I really don't remember being disciplined by them much past elementary school.

Like I said, I was quite responsible; though, I did manage to get away with a few minor things that I probably would not have gotten away with had I not already won my parents' trust, and so they never questioned me on what I was doing or where I had been.

I rarely confided in my parents. Looking back, this was probably the biggest clue that something was "off" about our relationship. It's like I just knew, somehow, that they couldn't really help me with my problems. And I never felt extremely close with either of them.

My in-laws are EII and SLI, and I feel much closer and more relaxed around them than I ever did around my own parents. I also have an IEE grandmother whom I was always very close to, and I think having her regularly in my life helped immensely; I could bring some things to her that I just never felt that comfortable discussing with any other adult in my life.

I figured out, I guess, to keep my mouth shut on a lot of things where my parents were concerned, in order to keep the peace between us. I remember several times thinking to myself, after one of my parents said or did something, "Well, that was uncalled for"; or "She/He could have handled that better"; or whatever. But I was not in a position to advise or criticise my own parents, so I didn't.

My self-esteem was/is fine. Like I said before, I think the biggest issue for me with having supervisee/benefactor parents, was just that I probably did not look up to them or seek their advice as much as I might have had we all been of a different relational configuration. I owe a lot of my good qualities to my parents; I also learned a lot of good qualities from elsewhere, despite my parents.

Anyway, looking back, there are a lot of things I would have done differently had I been the one raising me. But, my parents did the best they knew how, and any way I turned out okay.

[Nowisthetime]

I've read on some Russian site that the worst scenario is when the child is supervised by the parent.

[redbaron]

I rarely confided in my parents. Looking back, this was probably the biggest clue that something was "off" about our relationship. It's like I just knew, somehow, that they couldn't really help me with my problems. And I never felt extremely close with either of them.

I figured out, I guess, to keep my mouth shut on a lot of things where my parents were concerned, in order to keep the peace between us. I remember several times thinking to myself, after one of my parents said or did something, "Well, that was uncalled for"; or "She/He could have handled that better"; or whatever. But I was not in a position to advise or criticise my own parents, so I didn't.

My self-esteem was/is fine. Like I said before, I think the biggest issue for me with having supervisee/benefactor parents, was just that I probably did not look up to them or seek their advice as much as I might have had we all been of a different relational configuration. I owe a lot of my good qualities to my parents; I also learned a lot of good qualities from elsewhere, despite my parents.

Anyway, looking back, there are a lot of things I would have done differently had I been the one raising me. But, my parents did the best they knew how, and any way I turned out okay.

I felt the same as you (bold^^) I kind of kept to myself as a child. My dad is lookalike and my mom is extinguishment. It wasn't horrible but I clearly remember feeling worried that my brother (my IEI identical) would die someday and leave me all alone. There was definitely the feeling that he and I were on the same team and my parents were on the other team. There wasn't a lot of open conflict either, there was just this sense, underlying everything else.

[Marietta]

redbaron, I always thought that the supervisor might find the supervisee a bit boring, but at the same time valuable because the leading function of the supervisee is the creative of supervisor, and those mixed attitudes could be really conflicting. It was like that in one of my relationships which I think was supervision. I felt like I should value the person more because of the valued qualities of their leading, but I knew I could never force myself to do that adequatly. Do you experience it as well towards your husband?

pianosinger, from how you describe it it sounds quite neutral for me, did you feel that you are at some kind of advantage with your parents, or just that they couldn't understand you? I mean how was it assymetric for you, if it was?

[pianosinger]

pianosinger, from how you describe it it sounds quite neutral for me, did you feel that you are at some kind of advantage with your parents, or just that they couldn't understand you? I mean how was it assymetric for you, if it was?

Well, they were my parents, so, whether I was their psychological "superior" or not, I still looked up to them and wanted to please them as any child would. The fact that I also saw their flaws so clearly, well, that didn't prevent me from noticing their strengths and wanting to emulate them.

[redbaron]

redbaron, I always thought that the supervisor might find the supervisee a bit boring, but at the same time valuable because the leading function of the supervisee is the creative of supervisor, and those mixed attitudes could be really conflicting. It was like that in one of my relationships which I think was supervision. I felt like I should value the person more because of the valued qualities of their leading, but I knew I could never force myself to do that adequatly. Do you experience it as well towards your husband?

yes. as you describe exactly. and yes, it's problematic, moreso over time.

[golden]

Very good post, Octopus, and I appreciate the advice.

[Galen]

My dad is my benefactor.

I've always been very on-off with my dad. When I was younger I really didn't care much for him, but I couldn't put my finger on why. I think he just came off as angry and distant all the time, which seems like a more circumstantial or individual issue than it is anything socionics-related. I do find that whenever he does the Fe thing of kinda outwardly embodying the emotion he's feeling, it can feel very put on or manipulative to me. Like he'll seemingly "put on his angry face" for a few minutes, then revert back to neutral (probably more an E8 thing than anything else); or he'll "put on his serious face" for a while when he's trying to give me advice, but he just comes off as unnecessarily emotional and it makes me very uncomfortable.

How this relates to beneficiary/benefactor . . . uhm, I guess he's always been much more fond of me than I have been of him (he's a parent, which is probably a big reason why). But I thought that it was supposed to be the other way around, where I am more fond of him than he is of me? I dunno, but our relationship used to be weirdly one-sided I think. I've grown much more fond of him as time has passed though.

[VILEvenezuelan]

Dad= Beneficiary

Mom=Supervisee...

I've felt like an adult since I was 8 or 9, and in many ways raised myself.

Its always been easier to ignore my Dad's behavior since I don't live with him. have had serious troubles with my mom in the past though. I respect her immensely, she has dealt with a ridiculous life, but my idea of respect never lined up with hers. She always looked for blind acceptance of her rule as law, while I saw her rule as baseless unfounded exercises of authority unless proven otherwise.

The most complex part of my supervising her? She would always(and still does) think I am lying all of the time, because it would be difficult for her to concede that I might be speaking honestly and that she simply doesn't grasp . My actions and decisions reflect a ridiculous number of variables( I'm obviously not unique in this lol), but because they are based, she thinks my rationale is absurd and created after-the-fact every time. It really undermined her sense of control, which made her more resolute in her enforcement until I decided that I wouldn't live at home anymore one summer during high school.

Things are better now that a few years have passed since we shared a roof, but asymmetry in the opposite direction of the parental relationship is an odd time.

[Exodus]

I've read on some Russian site that the worst scenario is when the child is supervised by the parent.

It would definitely be worse for the child, at least. Also it would probably accentuate the normal conflicts that occur between parents and their kids.

[Beautiful sky]

Dad= Beneficiary

Mom=Supervisee...

I've felt like an adult since I was 8 or 9, and in many ways raised myself.

Its always been easier to ignore my Dad's behavior since I don't live with him. have had serious troubles with my mom in the past though. I respect her immensely, she has dealt with a ridiculous life, but my idea of respect never lined up with hers. She always looked for blind acceptance of her rule as law, while I saw her rule as baseless unfounded exercises of authority unless proven otherwise.

The most complex part of my supervising her? She would always(and still does) think I am lying all of the time, because it would be difficult for her to concede that I might be speaking honestly and that she simply doesn't grasp . My actions and decisions reflect a ridiculous number of variables( I'm obviously not unique in this lol), but because they are based, she thinks my rationale is absurd and created after-the-fact every time. It really undermined her sense of control, which made her more resolute in her enforcement until I decided that I wouldn't live at home anymore one summer during high school.

Things are better now that a few years have passed since we shared a roof, but asymmetry in the opposite direction of the parental relationship is an odd time.

That's a really tough situation. It does help when at least one parent is in your own quadra, if only for the purpose of understanding and supporting you. I hope you've found valuable relations, now that you're older, who can love you and support you.

[Beautiful sky]

My mother is my benefit relation, ILI, and my father is my activity relation, SLI, to me. I always got along better with my dad because we just naturally understood each others tendencies and lack of interest in certain things, primarily concerning . I do love both, dearly and I've found, through experimentation many ways to adjust my relations, to have closer and more loving relations with them, because it's important to my own psyche that I have close and loving bonds. I've been very successful with trying to get my father to be kinder and more regarding of my mom's differences and less harsh and critical of her need for , which of course he ignores. I myself, have had challenges with my mother, who has been very suggestive with Te matters, as opposed to taking it up and doing them herself and because of this we can only be around each other for a few hours a week without me wanting to run away. I want to escape the hold she wants to put on me with "honey, do this and that..." I mind listening to it constantly and it does bother me, so I've found ways to try to listen to it out of love and respect for her. I tell her about Si matters all the time, which she undervalues. Things like she should check with her doctor for certain tests/medications. My father and I are great with our interests, but we are terrible with working together as I prefer more orderly and organized approach to things and he doesn't care HOW something is done, but that it's actually done, in his lazy, kickback and unmethodical way. My relations with my parents hasn't been too unsuccessful, not nearly the stories I've heard anyway. On a scale of 1 to 10 I would say a comfortable 8.

[Slacker]

If you look down two posts, you will find my thread about my mom, entitled "Getting annoyed by your beneficiary." Which sums up how I feel.

[silke]

IEI son supervised by ENTj dad:

... I always have this experience of my dad constantly reordering my life, that I should abide by whatever stuff he tells me, "for it's for my own good, anyway". It can go from as complex and life-changing as he choosing my major in college, and as simple and mundane as him telling me, say, "you give that cup to your brother" even if he's the one nearer to the cup in the first place. It's like, when there's authority telling me exactly what to do in a straightforward manner, I feel abused and tricked. When in a bad mood, I would react impulsively, like, "I know what I'm doing", or "mind your own business!", which is a far cry from the usually good relationship terms I have with my dad. When I do this, I feel guilty instantly afterwards. Also, my first-ever impression of decisive, straightforward people, way back when I was young was that these people are always up for their own selfish ends, and didn't care for other people's needs, hence they should not be trusted easily.

[Beautiful sky]

I love these relationship stories...keep em coming

[Bluenoir]

My father seems to be very heavy, it can lead to some interesting political conversations

I think our miscommunications are a product of a conflict between realism, vs my "naive" idealism.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Hmmm, personal biz.

My old man was probably LSE, which would have made me his supervisor. He was equal parts opinionated, confrontational, and wrong. It was his style to rule the roost by edict, though I routinely undermined his despotic authority by pointing out every ridiculous disjunction between his stated principles and demonstrated practices. Let's just say that my rectitude wasn't quite welcome. He was jovial and carefree on our annual hunting and fishing excursion with his brothers and their sons, but on the whole he had far more criticism to dole out than constructive guidance. I'm not sure whether genes or upbringing played the greater part but I can say with certainty that my combative streak and intolerance for bullshit are inherited from him. Except for about 1/100th of a second while the color guard's bagpipes keened at his wake it never really bothered me when he finally went tits up.

My mom is the author of my more thoughtful and creative side, and she's most likely IEI. Being able to escape to her own little planet as necessary undoubtedly helped blunt the force of my pappy's constant barking and carping. She and I generally get on well but since my creative Te is her vulnerable function I've got to repeat and reiterate my thoughts so she can absorb the antinomies and changing circumstances they contain. And since her creative Fe is my PoLR she's further confused by my generally flat affect. To correct the first problem I've given half-serious thought to buying her a helmet-cam like skydivers wear so she can record what I say during visits and spare me the trouble of going over it all again and again. And for the second problem, I try to act a little more like a live human and show some appreciation for her putting up with my mischief.

So, 50% asymmetric. Could be worse

[Creepy-]

Hmmm, personal biz.

My old man was probably LSE, which would have made me his supervisor. He was equal parts opinionated, confrontational, and wrong. It was his style to rule the roost by edict, though I routinely undermined his despotic authority by pointing out every ridiculous disjunction between his stated principles and demonstrated practices. Let's just say that my rectitude wasn't quite welcome. He was jovial and carefree on our annual hunting and fishing excursion with his brothers and their sons, but on the whole he had far more criticism to dole out than constructive guidance. I'm not sure whether genes or upbringing played the greater part but I can say with certainty that my combative streak and intolerance for bullshit are inherited from him. Except for about 1/100th of a second while the color guard's bagpipes keened at his wake it never really bothered me when he finally went tits up.

My mom is the author of my more thoughtful and creative side, and she's most likely IEI. Being able to escape to her own little planet as necessary undoubtedly helped blunt the force of my pappy's constant barking and carping. She and I generally get on well but since my creative Te is her vulnerable function I've got to repeat and reiterate my thoughts so she can absorb the antinomies and changing circumstances they contain. And since her creative Fe is my PoLR she's further confused by my generally flat affect. To correct the first problem I've given half-serious thought to buying her a helmet-cam like skydivers wear so she can record what I say during visits and spare me the trouble of going over it all again and again. And for the second problem, I try to act a little more like a live human and show some appreciation for her putting up with my mischief.

So, 50% asymmetric. Could be worse

So... your mother and father are conflictors?

[Korpsy Knievel]

So... your mother and father are conflictors?

So it would appear. My old man is too dead to interview or observe but between my recollections and my mother's input the best fit for him is LSE. For her part she was initially torn between IEI and SEI descriptions but closer examination showed that IEI is her best fit.

[Exodus]

My father seems to be very heavy, it can lead to some interesting political conversations

I think our miscommunications are a product of a conflict between realism, vs my "naive" idealism.

?

Your relationship can't possibly be asymmetric, unless he's SLI but I don't think an SLI would 'conflict' with your .

[Bluenoir]

?

Your relationship can't possibly be asymmetric, unless he's SLI but I don't think an SLI would 'conflict' with your .

We get on quite well. What I'm saying is we often get into political discussions, with slightly different approaches. (which can lead to disagreements ) "thus" a conflict so to speak.

For example.

I might look at a certain idea, and see the "potential" benifits/effects it could have on society. no? I would then justify my realization, with why I think a implementation of a idea could work. right?

My father on the other hand, will often tell me that my abstractions are just not realistic. He will then usally go on some long winded lecture on why certain idea just would not work. He will attack my position not on it's logic per se, but rather it's applicability to reality. Eg how would I implement something without screwing everything else up with it, ect, ect. Essentially, he will ask me for a application. Which I tend not to do outside making stat choices in video games

We get on fine, it's just we often have an asymmetry in how we look at concepts. (Usally political and economic.) Which can lead to some heated and unwinnable debates. There is an asymmetry in how we look at things.