I agree. To me, the "flawless logical structure" thing wasn't so much bragging about what Alphas are capable of, as it was describing the goal that Alphas aspire to.
Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
Workaholics, straytk, and jewels: I don't think most Deltas would actually phrase it the way I worded it (i.e., "wealth and power"), so that may be part of the confusion. But I have seen it in action in the Deltas I know. They tend to be very hard-working folks, who care about earning enough money to buy a good quality home, good quality cars, good quality everything. Of course, as I've been saying, Deltas view +Se as a means to an end, rather than an end in and of itself, so they tend to be less flashy and ostentatious with their wealth than, say, Gammas.
Also, I don't know how old you guys are, but I would imagine this is something that develops a little later in Delta NFs. The value of the Super-Ego elements isn't always appreciated during the earlier stages of psycho-social development.
Oh, cool! I hadn't noticed that! Thanks for pointing it out.
Originally Posted by warrior-librarian
Yeah, that's actually the part I wasn't really satisfied with either. I'm still trying to grasp the difference between +Ni and -Ni; I don't feel like I have a solid handle on it yet.
Originally Posted by warrior-librarian
I read your post and thought about it some more. If +Ni is all about extrapolating further into the future, maybe -Ni is more about eliminating unlikely extrapolations? So a Gamma NT would accept a certain amount of uncertainty in exchange for being able to extrapolate further into the future, whereas a Beta NF would be willing to extrapolate less far into the future, in exchange for being more certain about the reliability of their prediction? This would certainly fit with the goals of +Se and -Se respectively.
Alpha Intuition: Avoiding unreliable extrapolations of the future (-Ni) to better investigate all possibilities (+Ne).
Beta Intuition: Investigating all possibilities (+Ne) to better reduce uncertainty about the future (-Ni).
Gamma Intuition: Eliminating unlikely possibilities (-Ne) to extrapolate further into the future (+Ni).
Delta Intuition: Extrapolating into the future (+Ni) to better eliminate unlikely possibilities (-Ne).
Obviously, Ni deals with more things than just time, just as Si deals with more things than just comfort, but certainly time is the most obvious and common application of Ni.
Anyway, I still feel like it's not quite there yet, but I think that's better than it was.
Looking back at all this, I'm starting to think the difference between the plus and minus versions of the elements basically comes down to quality vs. quantity. It looks like plus focuses on quantity, and minus on quality. You could reframe them thus:
- +Ni is willing to sacrifice quality (reliable predictions) for quantity (predicting further into the future), and -Ni the reverse.
- +Ne is willing to sacrifice quality (knowing something's actual potential) for quantity (knowing all the possible things something could be).
- +Fi is willing to sacrifice quality (close, trustworthy relations) for quantity (extending a hand of friendship to everyone), -Fi the reverse.
- +Fe is willing to sacrifice quality (happiness) for quantity (emotional intensity), -Fe the reverse.
- +Si is willing to sacrifice quality (reliability of pleasurable results) for quantity (intensity of pleasurable results), -Si the reverse.
- +Se is willing to sacrifice quality (reliable strength) for quantity (lots of wealth), -Se the reverse.
- +Ti is willing to sacrifice quality (logical correctness) for quantity (subjecting everything to order and organization), -Ti the reverse.
- +Te is willing to sacrifice quality (efficiency of action) for quantity (productivity of action), -Te the reverse.
The Te one is a little counter-intuitive at first, as +Te is described as desiring to produce "quality" results, but the key is that Te is actually about the action, not the result. A quality action is efficient. Gammas focus on reducing the number of actions necessary to complete a task (efficiency). Deltas are willing to perform more actions to get the results they want (productivity).
In general, the idea of "quantity" is a little harder to apply to the Dynamic functions than the Static ones, but I think the basic idea still works. I really like it.