Because I am.
IEIs and poor social skills: can INFps be socially awkward/challenged?
Because I am.
Yup. Totally.
INFps are bad at pretty much everything except writing depressed music / poetry
In general, the best thing you can do for yourself is thus: Whenever your friends ask you to do stuff, GO DO IT.
Seriously, I usually think that half the things they suggest will suck and be a waste of time and then I go and have a great time and it's awesome. So never turn down your friends' offers for fun.
Unless they're "friends." Then you should always turn them down. They don't call them scare quotes for nothing.
This. I hope that people don't think this sort of thing is "type-related", unless you have Asperger's or something. It is definitely mostly a learned trait. There are many IEIs who are either very awkward and shy or on the other hand there are very socially skilled and chatty ones who have no problem just going up to a random stranger and chatting up with them.Originally Posted by Starfall
But I also just want to point out something... trying to be "the shit" is also not a very good idea... because it precisely makes you that much vulnerable. You are in the position to judge yourself if you happen to fall short of being anything but "the shit". You might embarrass or shame yourself if you find yourself suddenly being awkward instead of being "the shit" (we all make mistakes sometimes). And that is the very thing that reinforces awkwardness in social settings.
Last edited by Singu; 03-12-2011 at 12:52 PM.
Do you think I'm IEI, because I'm not entirely convinced. Yet I don't mind it if I'm IEI if that's what all the North American rednecks and hypocrites and bullies and idiots and cowboys believe. Like Cyclops once recommended that I go to this site (when I was still on socionics.com); he said I'd get more responses or something (for example the Liz Phair thread I made on socionics.com got 0 responses). And he also used the phrase "for good or for ill" I think. Well I can't really blame this site for any of my ills obviously, but I hate it just as much as Safeway and that Se-ESTp guy I was pseudo-dating. Everything. I never wrote things in washrooms or anything, yet I remember something written in a stall: "Love nothing/Hate everything" or something like that. And I keep thinking I don't want to believe that. Yet what's the point. I hate my life. Let's be honest. If you eat with pigs you get devoured by them, right? I'm not a good person, so why don't I just kill myself. I wish I could die. Somebody kill me. And then I can finally 'prove' I'm Fe-INFp because I shot myself like Kurt Cobain, right?
Before I give you some pointers, I just want to try and relax you and make you feel a little bit better about something. So here goes.
Well, there are some things exacerbating the situation here, that aren't totally your fault. You are gay in a country that still doesn't treat gays equally, you are part of a discriminated class. If you lived in another country for that reason alone, it would be easier to be social.
((If I'm in a gay friendly area it's easier to be social because I know I won't be discriminated against for something as absolutely RETARDED as being attracted to my same sex. What a boring non-issue! But in this country those places are kinda rare.))
And you're not really obviously gay to me (especially not in a negative sense), but you're sorta on the sensitive/artistic side, again in a culture/country where that isn't really valued as much as being an extroverted redneck.
It's hard if not impossible to be social with people who bully you/don't share your same views, which is why forcing people to go to school at a young age is just so incredibly stupid. But there are people out there with your hobbies and interests, you just gotta find your right group you know? Don't do the same mistakes I did and push the right ones away. If somebody tries to connect with you and they seem nice enough, try to let them in.
Okay after you learned to forgive yourself and not take all the blame, I would say that you just come across as too self-focused in your posts. Yeah maybe we all are like that, but you use 'I' a lot and go on ramblings about yourself. I don't mean to be rude, but nobody cares honey!
I can do the same thing, but it just pushes people away. It's really the only thing you're doing wrong, in a social sense.
People generally like you when you understand them, and not yourself. You gotta understand to be understood, ya know? They only only like you when you truly focus on them. Maybe it's not right, but it's the way it goes. Your own subjective viewpoints and things are something that only other faggy introverts can really understand through writing. But it's not really a good idea in a ' normal' social setting; if you want to be social then you're just going to have to be more selfless than that.
It's like that cliche goes, you only get what you give. Maybe you think that you don't really have anything to offer but your own subjective insights about things, so if that's the case, try to make some sort of art with it that a lot of people can relate to maybe.
And well.... it just sounds like you need some confidence or something. You don't have to be social with everybody. There needs to be some mutual respect going on.
And the way to focus on others and not yourself is to realize that there is nothing wrong within you that needs fixing. You were born whole and beautiful. =)
Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 03-12-2011 at 02:42 PM.
Erm... well you sound like you are rather self-destructive. If you are not careful, then you might actually end up destroying yourself. But know that you can actually get better, and you can put end to your misery... but it will take effort on your part. You'd have to change parts of yourself that are causing you problems. Obviously, this will not happen overnight, nor will it be done miraculously some time in the future without effort on your part. But it can be done. This will mean that you will need to take care of yourself instead of being against yourself like you are being right now.
Heck yeah! I think any personality type can be socially awkward, to be honest.
“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Jalal ad-Din Rumi
yeah.. you're INFp. It's official. How old are you anyway?
A good way to get over being socially strange is to learn psychology. Then you can understand / predict things in the social situation to some degree, so it's alot easier to handle. That worked somewhat for me at least.
Well why exactly is it that you care so much what others think of you?All types have the potential to be socially awkward. I'd say Ni IEI's probably have more issues with feeling that way than Fe subtypes. Social skills are things you learn & pick up on. When I'm in group settings with strangers I'm usually pretty refined, friendly, and polite. I wouldn't describe myself as socially awkward even though I can be shy at first.
Tbh, It's probably just all in your head. You're thinking too much about how you're coming off when you're in a social situation. That will make you socially awkward. I know it sounds hard, but stop caring so much what people think. Know you're the shit, learn from your dual & grow some balls.
Not trying to single you out Starfall, that's a question for everyone. If you're polite and professional, you have nothing to worry about. Honor yourself, and others will honor you, too.
There's nothing wrong with caring what others think I don't think (as long as it isn't excessive). But I don't think that it's a good idea to pretend like you don't care at all, and that they just can't hurt you or something. The real question is what it is exactly that you're afraid of, and what do you think that it'll happen after such an incident? If you're afraid of making a fool out of yourself in public or something, then it's something that can be picked on.
And uh, please stop this stereotype that IEIs are this depressed emo/goths that just want to kill themselves or something. That shit isn't healthy. People get depressed or start to hate themselves for one reason or another. But the main reason that people start to hate themselves is because they attempt to reach beyond themselves, and not because they are worthless or contemptible. The hatred is the discprepancy between what they could be, would be, should be and what they are. The only thing that this will lead to is unreasoning and unfair self-criticism and self-reproaches that will lead you to feeling of inferiority, guilt, cramped, tormented, and unconstructive self-pity that obstructs real growth. Hating yourself is futile anyhow, and it will not achieve much of anything. But this will not stop as long as you are unconsciously proud of it, such as being "ascetic... unselfish... having high moral standards..." etc. Not to mention, there is an enormously strong emotional force that is the most difficult to get rid of.
Kurt Cobain killed himself because he hated himself too much, and he didn't do anything about it, when he could have. It was a waste of talent and potential.
Oh, you. Silly, ugly, broken, beautiful world.
Life is difficult, and unpleasant, and horrifyingly painful, and nobody is good at it, but some people are better at lying (and IEIs don't like lying to ourselves, having intuited that our capacity to understand is the only thing useful about us, perhaps the only thing self about us). But nobody is good at life, and it sucks for everyone in one way or another.
Definitely don't hurt yourself, friend. K?
But in regards to social awkwardness, I vacillate. I'm generally pretty damn good in social situations where I've spent some time. But I'm terrible at doing new things. And, like everybody, the more self-conscious I feel, the more self-conscious I act. If I could just convince myself that I'm cool, I'd be cool in most/all situations. But there's always the fear of being Mr. Collins that haunts me in the back of my mind, and that fear keeps me bound to mid-level awkwardness. I neither soar like the Fonze nor crash like the Screech. But all in all, I'm not doing too badly.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
All types have the potential to be socially awkward. I'd say Ni IEI's probably have more issues with feeling that way than Fe subtypes. Social skills are things you learn & pick up on. When I'm in group settings with strangers I'm usually pretty refined, friendly, and polite. I wouldn't describe myself as socially awkward even though I can be shy at first.
Tbh, It's probably just all in your head. You're thinking too much about how you're coming off when you're in a social situation. That will make you socially awkward. I know it sounds hard, but stop caring so much what people think. Know you're the shit, learn from your dual & grow some balls.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Thanks for the responses. I wasn't expecting them to be that nice. Anyway, I wouldn't say I'm suicidal. I'm not. And I don't cut myself. I'm just at a point where not only have I lost a job (which I kind of expected) but I know I have to start going to school again, yet I don't think I can be friends with this guy, and I don't want to confront him. So, the avoidant part of me is saying, never go to that bar again, no more karaoke there or anything ever again...oh well. Actually, my Mom said that. She always tells me if she has a bad vibe about someone. So if I'm IEI, I think I'm probably Fe-INFp, because I think I'd dualize better with a Ti-ESTp than a Se-ESTp in real life. Yet I don't think I'm really self-destructive. I was a lot more like that in the past. I'm just kind of really angry lately, yet in a very repressed way. It's like coming out in the wrong ways.
Maybe everything's been building up strangely this week. The main problem I have that never seems to change is chronic pain, yet a lot of people have some sort of chronic pain or other. I'm just really scared that I'll never progress in life, and I'd like to. Yet I know I'd never be good at working in a grocery store, because I tried that twice and it didn't work. The manager suggested something where I don't have to work with customers or the public. I want to be nice with people in real life... yet I'm easily influenced by someone that gives me attention, and then they might talk about how they don't have money, and I try to present myself as someone that can help them, or something. Yet apparently now, if even Bolt thinks I'm IEI, I must be INFp. Although it's kind of sad that people like Ashton, etc. thought I was INFp long before Bolt. That kind of stuff really confuses me.
But if I am IEI I guess I just have to accept it. Maybe this issue I've been having with not wanting to be IEI has been symbolic of how disconnected I've been from my heart and the truth, and how much I'd like to be someone else. I don't believe in suicide. I don't want to kill myself. Yet, sometimes things make me feel weighed down, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my life, or if I will ever heal. Nevertheless, I'd still like to live to see 2012 and 2033.
While I don't dislike Kurt Cobain, I wouldn't say I relate to him 100%, although I could believe we're both Fe-INFp. Yet, as bad as it sounds, I like Courtney Love more. I remember at least two psychiatrists I had in the past in Edmonton who thought that she killed him. Yet that's not why I liked her, or her music, which is of course written alongside other people. It must be either a dual (or mirror) thing or something (the anima?). A lot of the time though, I think it's how when I was a child I felt that my Mother suffered and that she struggled, and that she was kind of a victim in the past, due to her experiences. My Aunt could be mean with her too and stuff, and plus my biological father used her and discarded her. And I guess unconsciously, I felt that I had to absorb the negative feelings from her, and help her or protect her or save her somehow. And then I grew up with a desire to help or save people, especially if I really liked them and/or they liked me. Yet that never worked out, because it was some sort of flawed script.
So I guess the shadow of that became viewing myself in a negative light, or idealizing dark troubled characters, and imagining myself in their shoes. Yet no matter what, people probably always intuitively felt that I was more IEI than SLE since they probably thought I was more like Kurt Cobain (or Sylvia Plath) as opposed to Courtney Love (or Ernest Hemingway or Marlon Brando).
So I guess I just have to accept that I'm probably, if not definitely IEI, and stop feeling bad about it. Yet in Battlestar Galactica, it was really hard for Boomer to accept that she was really a Cylon. And she had been programmed to shoot Bill Adama, and she felt bad about everything that happened. And to finally and completely adjust to the fact was difficult. Maybe it's because I typed myself INFp before the break-up with the ex. Yet right before, I joined the socionics.com forum and there was someone who typed my responses to certain questions as ENFp. So I was dazzled by the possibilities and all they had to offer, and actually started considering ENFp, yet then the break-up happened, and I vacillated a lot, going back and forth between IEI and other types. And I guess it became my Achilles heel, and I became pissed off just because people thought I'm IEI. I guess there was part of me that wanted to believe I wasn't. Maybe I felt so bad about myself, so guilty, ungrateful, inferior, weak, etc. that I wanted to believe a fantasy. A lie I wanted to be true.
I guess I've just allowed myself to foolishly enter an angry mode because I've been in denial about my mistakes, about losing the job, about lying, and then going to a bar after many weeks of not going and allowing myself to be led so easily to places I perhaps didn't want to go to again. I guess it makes me feel kind of cheap when I don't have any real friends, and I'm so easy. Then I start questioning my authenticity and my integrity and everything in my life. Especially when it turns out that I really don't like the person. Yet I don't know. Maybe I'm just very needy. I don't know what I want. I guess there's chronic dissatisfaction, and sometimes when I feel at my lowest and I don't know how to be real or how to interact without overreacting and posturing and acting crazy. Then again my stepdad was an 'alcoholic' who acted kind of strange and crazy in public. What were some of the phrases he annoyed my Mom with in public, like "banging" 'time'... Or once in Victoria we went for Thanksgiving to the house of a nurse that my Mom worked with, and he had already drank before, and this young guy said a prayer before the meal, and at the conclusion of the prayer my stepdad said, "Bless you taco bell."
I guess I tend to extremes. I'm either a push over or door mat, and maybe help people I shouldn't... or I just overreact and in the past there were times when I either fought with my ex or my aunt by e-mail or whatever, and I'd write angry and stupid things, just act out for stupid reasons I guess. I remember how Cavil described Boomer as being "self-destructive, hyper-emotional, torn apart by conflicting impulses." Then there was Gaius Baltar, another 'traitor' of sorts. Yet he actually fell in love with the person who betrayed him and they ended up being together. Yet I don't think that usually happens in real life.
Last edited by HERO; 03-18-2011 at 02:36 PM. Reason: fixed
I haven't read everything in this thread but I wanted to add that I used to be socially awkward. Over time, when you give yourself chances to practice regularly, you can get better. I'm GREAT socially now. Part of it is having confidence, practicing, learning how to take an interest in other people and get them talking with a focus on them. Then they love you and it's a ripple effect. Suddenly you wake up one day and everyone has a good opinion of you and you have a lot more friends than you did before. I don't love talking about myself but it's easy for me to be funny and supportive and cute when someone else is talking or telling a story. Learning how to TRULY give people your attention is a great life skill to have. (It's also fun to try to type people at a party as you're talking to them, lol!)
IEI-Fe 4w3
Remember that IEIs don't have to be weak push-over crybabies. Sometimes you just have to be Helo. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and shoot your wife in the chest, you know?
So it is in real life. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and tell someone to fuck off.
I never learn.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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Yeah I like that song, it grew on me.
I tend to have panic attacks in groups larger than four. Unless I know someone intimately, and not sexually, but well, then I will be very uncomfortable one on one with you until I have an understanding of who you are.
INFj?
Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 05-11-2011 at 01:37 AM.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
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Fidei Defensor
Sorry. McCarthyism, you know. It's the Gamma in me.
I feel bad for that behavior now. :/
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
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Fidei Defensor
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
Also, Joe McCarthy? Gamma?? I'm not buying it.
Yea, I get you, I wasn't in my right mind.
I do think Joe McCarthy was/
though. Gamma/Delta and I'm leaning towards ISFj.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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Fidei Defensor
McCarthy and Nixon are both unpopular, cold war era political figures and both are probably Se egos. As far as I'm concerned the similarities end there. If I were forced to choose I'd peg McCarthy as an ESTp. I don't know what leads you to draw the conclusion that he is Te/Fi. McCarthy spoke often about "morality," but his theory of "morality" strikes me more of a Ti than an Fi construct.Yea, I get you, I wasn't in my right mind.
I do think Joe McCarthy was
Last edited by Timmy; 05-11-2011 at 04:09 AM.
McCarthy isn't Nixon. Not only have you confounded these two but also de la Rocha with Marley and yourself with Gamma.
McCarthy was Beta to the core.
Nixon generally struck me as SEE. JUST SAYIN
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I once made a 'toy boat' as a child. I think I was about 10 years old or so. I don't remember the exact age. My Mom, my 'step-dad', and I were living in Red Deer at the time. Anyway, I managed to make it out of sticks . . . To be honest I don't remember exactly how I made it. I was a lot more creative and constructive as a child than I am now. But it worked. I remember also putting a piece of paper in it and I think it probably had something written on it, I don't remember. And when we went on a trip to the Rockies (or maybe it was on the way back) when we found a stream or little river or something I remember putting the boat in it and it floated it quite well. Who knows what happened to it. I wasn't always good at making or constructing things, yet at least that's one thing I managed to build, and it turned out well.
I remember I was also very proud of a drawing I once made for a Science class when I was about 11 years old. We (my Mom, 'stepdad', and I) were living in Wetaskiwin at the time. Some other guy in my class (Grade 6), who said that my face looks like a girl's and that girls don't like that (among other things), also said that my drawing's messed up or screwed up or something. I still thought it was cool. Yet I never pursued art or drawing or painting. Maybe I should try it as therapy the way Alice Miller used art for.
Anyway at the time I wasn't really aware of being gay. I think I started becoming a lot more (consciously) aware of it when I was 15.
*noncommittal shrug*I killed myself?
Well to put it paradoxically, IEIs are bad at everything in the best possible way.
Easy Day
LOL! omg! Are you pouting?! That is so adorable!That's because SLE's seem to think it's so adorably cute when we suffer. I'm not kidding.You all have no souls.
Easy Day
Sometimes I even think I'm SLE. Maybe that explains the masochism..That's because SLE's seem to think it's so adorably cute when we suffer. I'm not kidding.
You are so cute. But only when you're clumsy or whatever.
Or whatever like... when you push them down the stairs?
'Oh, did you fall? Haha, you're so cute, silly!'
I'm cute like Scrappy Doo if you try to push me down stairs.
In fact, I got kicked out of school for that once.
Scrappy Doo cute? Or more like Mike Tyson cute?I'm cute like Scrappy Doo if you try to push me down stairs.
In fact, I got kicked out of school for that once.
That's a good question actually. I don't really know.Scrappy Doo cute? Or more like Mike Tyson cute?
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