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Thread: Te overload, or something?

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    Default Te overload, or something?

    maybe this doesn't have to do with Te, so correct me if my premise is wrong.

    so somebody hands you some sheets of paper with information and instructions. they then proceed to walk you through the entire thing, reiterating what is already on the paper as well as giving detailed explanations regarding the reasons why each instruction exists.

    are any types more or less likely to be annoyed by or cool with this? what if you know perfectly well you could have just read the thing yourself and spared 15 minutes of redundancy? would it be atypical for an Fi base type to feel irritated and insulted?

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    No, it'd be normal, and it would be compatible with Fi signalling to Te when he-she is going overboard with instruction. What you mention sounds like process Te btw, so either LSE or ILI.
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    I kind of think anybody would be irritated by that. It's beyond "te overload" and into "treating you like you're stupid" territory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I kind of think anybody would be irritated by that. It's beyond "te overload" and into "treating you like you're stupid" territory.
    haha, this is what i was thinking, but i wasn't sure if it was one of those "isn't everybody like that" assumptions. and i'm also pretty sure the person in question is LSE. and i hear about how people are supposed to be like greedy gluttons for as much of their DS as they can get or something, but maybe not?

    i'm not stupid! i can read!

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    I don't know - giving you info might be Te, but doing it that many times makes it inefficient so maybe it's also annoying you because you value Te.
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    Idk what it is, but if you look at from their side, I'm sure they do have to deal with a lot of idiots or people who just plain wouldn't pay attention otherwise. Sometimes people need that redundancy to get it through their head, and it's better to go through the extra effort to at least get to the point where if it didn't get through to them, the instructor can say they gave it a reasonable shot. It's just a process that has to be done for whatever reason I'm sure(maybe legal or quality control), and not just a thing they naturally do.

    I am assuming this is some kind of professional instruction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    maybe this doesn't have to do with Te, so correct me if my premise is wrong.

    so somebody hands you some sheets of paper with information and instructions. they then proceed to walk you through the entire thing, reiterating what is already on the paper as well as giving detailed explanations regarding the reasons why each instruction exists.
    This could be ; the way you're describing it sounds favorable to me. If it's just some simple task it could be annoying, but if it's a homework assignment I might appreciate justification.

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    I don't like lots of details. So even if he/she is helping me out by explaining to me all I should do, I am bound to forget most of it, forget some essential steps, and do my own thing. If he/she keeps it simple, gives me the only few efficient details I would need at the time like a good Te dominant should, then there won't be a problem. I don't really care if someone is trying to help me with instructions, I'm not one to pretend to know it all, but sometimes quadra gets in the way of communication and I have a harder time understanding intentions, and that's when things will have a negative effect. Like ie. my ENFj dad's way of expression is to be forceful and emotive about everything he says, and if you didn't know him at first, his topics of choice might seem important and effective, but after an Si-valuer is around him for long enough, they'll notice he's bringing up trivial points and details of things that are supposed to elicit a seemingly Se and Fe intention, and those things are the most "overloading" or annoying to me personally. My mom is only half of that, Fe, and easier to stand and understand the intentions of. Like it was said somewhere in this thread, if your dual is overloading you with "Te," or whatever function, then the temporary problem in communication should be much easier to restore and get on the same wavelength.

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    On an unrelated note I read the thread title as "Te overlord, or something?"
    And when I look at the posts I still manage to read it like that .
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This could be ; the way you're describing it sounds favorable to me. If it's just some simple task it could be annoying, but if it's a homework assignment I might appreciate justification.
    Truth, that actually is . There are additional notes types make, just they're not explanations, but eventually justifications for the purpose. In addition, if we understand "overload" as a reference to how that information is used as a Base function, IME Logical Rationals are much less inclined to offer additional notes; that stuff sounds like Irrational hair-splitting. IMO that happens because Logical-Rationals find the understanding of most of what they reveal as rather obvious, unless it's something very complex or uncommon.

    Seen from the other side, I always had issues giving instructions to / types. I'm bothered that on one hand I believe they can't do things properly if they don't understand the reason and explanation of everything (what if I miss a detail? if they understand they can be able to correct, find an inconsistency or a lack), on the other they get very easily tired and impatient with them, they try to get quickly over these "details" which I find as negligence, making me concerned about the success of the endeavor.
    As a difference, individuals tend to ignore or dismiss such information as "irrelevant", while tend to perceive it as uncertainty/hesitation from your part, as it was made up rather to convince yourself and others instead of actually knowing what you're doing.

    Out of the same experience, I realized that most of what / need to hear is if it works, how it works, if you've done that before and the purposes. Being an expert in some field - especially in a fast-paced, non-critical work environment, where these details are often suppresses - makes this much easier.

    And like you said, this is not only very favorable to me, but I require it. If I don't understand the reason of some detail, I ask for justification; if it's not given, I start thinking the instructor is dogmatic or something, and slowly (or immediately, depending on the situation) proceed to research things independently, fearing that an eventual misunderstanding or mistake will so be impossible to detect in useful time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i'm not stupid! i can read!
    Oh yeah, regarding my post above, that too, and I dislike those allusions when they're directed at me, because they're simply not true. If I believe someone is stupid I say so, eventually explaining why.

    Also, reading is one thing, understanding is another . If reading made people knowledgeable, then the problems of education would have been solved long ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This could be ; the way you're describing it sounds favorable to me. If it's just some simple task it could be annoying, but if it's a homework assignment I might appreciate justification.
    I agree. Explaining why each step is needed would actually sing to my Ti. I'd want that to happen actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    what if you know perfectly well you could have just read the thing yourself and spared 15 minutes of redundancy? would it be atypical for an Fi base type to feel irritated and insulted?
    I will get annoyed with redundancy, but that's because my role function is Si. This has nothing to do with Te rather Ni-Se combo that strives to change things in physical realm and optimize them with respect to time. So if we're losing time getting nowhere then I will start feeling impatient.

    Also I would be interested in going through the list of instructions at least once especially if the result is interesting. But if you want me to repeat these steps day after day several months straight this is where you'd better shoot me. I will also attempt to change around the steps of the instructions trying to optimize the process and once that optimization is done I'd get bored with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    I agree. Explaining why each step is needed would actually sing to my Ti. I'd want that to happen actually.
    I like that too, but if someone just ran through the instructions without extra explanation beyond what's there, I would probably shoot them. I hate that sort of redundancy.

    (Although I am not above putting multiple signs on things that I think people will screw up, because it's the few dumb people who wreck things for everyone else and it's worthwhile in the long run. I think I just work with some properly stupid people. )

    but that's because my role function is Si. This has nothing to do with Te rather Ni-Se combo that strives to change things in physical realm and optimize them with respect to time. So if we're losing time getting nowhere then I will start feeling impatient.
    Off-topic: Hmm, I've never thought of that as Ni-related. So is there Ni-efficiency, and Te-efficiency? It would explain why I find LSEs painfully inefficient, and they find me painfully inefficient...
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    hmm...i'm not totally positive that she is LSE. interesting that people are saying it could be Ti.

    for clarification, she is a coworker - not a supervisor, but above me in the chain. the papers are a document that she wants me to make revisions to and she has written them down (move this paragraph here, add a sentence there). its something that we've done a few times before, the details are always different but its not at all complex. she goes over both the technical reason for the revision and sometimes the context within the greater scheme. roughly a six-page document took up about 15 minutes of explaining time.

    she's like this with a lot of things - like she knows that one of my tasks involves research and i'll find "helpful" emails from her with links to articles that i've already found. i assumed this sort of proactive information help was Te Ej, but maybe not? on one hand i know she's trying to help and i see it as kind and responsible, but on the other hand i sometimes find it annoyingly patronizing. i guess she's only trying to do a good job at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    maybe this doesn't have to do with Te, so correct me if my premise is wrong.

    so somebody hands you some sheets of paper with information and instructions. they then proceed to walk you through the entire thing, reiterating what is already on the paper as well as giving detailed explanations regarding the reasons why each instruction exists.

    are any types more or less likely to be annoyed by or cool with this? what if you know perfectly well you could have just read the thing yourself and spared 15 minutes of redundancy? would it be atypical for an Fi base type to feel irritated and insulted?
    Simply giving you a piece of paper is not any function related; it would be if you found out the motives for them doing so.

    Proceeding to walk you through the entire thing seems a bit anal, not in an Te sense though, maybe in a Ti sense - TiSe types prefer if they are understood very detailed, their T's must be crossed and I's dotted so they will go into extensive detail on going over things and explaining the reasons why each instructions exist. And, might even ask you to take notes, even repeat back to them what they've said (my LSI boss here).

    I'm very annoyed by LSI when they do this. I do enjoy them when they are not in supervisory positions and don't focus on details where they lose sight of the bigger pictures . I'm an Fi base and yes, it does annoy me because it loses focus on the big picture, which is to get the job done with attention to meticulous care.

    Te types might find them annoying and redundant as well, because they don't value Se and don't feel like they need all that information to be efficient or take efficient action.

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    Having spent about a year and a half training around one hundred or so people, I'm not sure exactly how type related it might be. You go from training very bright people who you can pretty much just let loose on the job to others that no amount of time or coaxing seems to get them performing at the level they're supposed to be at. There's a point where you wind up on auto-pilot sometimes and just rattle off information that's been said a billion times before.

    I can see how on the receiving end this can seem pretty redundant or tedious, especially since the nature of the job and the way management operates they have a very specific methodology they want in place, some of it that no one above me was ever able to provide sufficient justification for. For example, one of the higher ups insists that employees load boxes from the left to the right side, which I usually tell my new hires to ignore and do whatever seems to work best for them depending on the situation. Generally, I try to show them what kind of result we're looking for, pass along tips I've found to work, but otherwise give them leeway to find their own style. Moreso than technique, I tend to try to make them feel welcome, cut them slack when they need it, and attempt to help them find something about the job to like (if not the job itself than at least as part of a tight group of people who bitch about the same things ).

    Positive morale, goodwill, and team cohesion are pretty much the points of emphasis I try to stress at work, and I think they're frequently overlooked due to the tunnel vision most upper management seem to have regarding efficiency, productivity, or making a few extra bucks.

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    ok, i want to know this lady's type because i'm hoping she's not LSE, she's pissing me off.

    so i mention in passing that i'm working on some project that sounds by name like it might be beyond the scope of my job and she starts questioning me about what it is and why i'm the one doing it when it has nothing to do with her job as far as i know. like she's suspicious or skeptical or something. the other day she notices that i have the lights off in my cubicle and starts questioning why, saying she likes the lights on because she can see better, etc...argh, why do you care???

    i don't know a whole lot about her but i can try to field questions. does anybody have any impressions? i don't expect them to be airtight, i know there's not much to work with.

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    lol, i was venting and it probably sounds so petty. ftr, she doesn't piss me off enough to have an active dislike of her (yet) and i don't have problems with anyone else at work.

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    Yeah laghlagh that person sounds like a nosy shrew to me. I'd get into a fight with her personally. God I don't know how to get along with people =(, I don't know how anybody does it! My first instincts is to fight or flight in a very Beta-y way.

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    I would become absolutely furious at anyone asking me such questions. I'm sure it'd end with a big fight (and I'd look like a fool, but I wouldn't be able to keep cool).
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    so somebody hands you some sheets of paper with information and instructions. they then proceed to walk you through the entire thing, reiterating what is already on the paper as well as giving detailed explanations regarding the reasons why each instruction exists.
    Well, almost all extremes in behavior get annoying. But, in general, this behavior doesn't bother me, and I often appreciate it. Not because I'm stupid and can't understand directions, but because it gives me opportunity to argue with their directions () and explain/suggest better ways of doing it.


    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    so i mention in passing that i'm working on some project that sounds by name like it might be beyond the scope of my job and she starts questioning me about what it is and why i'm the one doing it when it has nothing to do with her job as far as i know. like she's suspicious or skeptical or something. the other day she notices that i have the lights off in my cubicle and starts questioning why, saying she likes the lights on because she can see better, etc...argh, why do you care???
    She just sounds like an annoying person. Boo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    maybe this doesn't have to do with Te, so correct me if my premise is wrong.

    so somebody hands you some sheets of paper with information and instructions. they then proceed to walk you through the entire thing, reiterating what is already on the paper as well as giving detailed explanations regarding the reasons why each instruction exists.

    are any types more or less likely to be annoyed by or cool with this? what if you know perfectly well you could have just read the thing yourself and spared 15 minutes of redundancy? would it be atypical for an Fi base type to feel irritated and insulted?
    It also irritates the hell out of me when someone takes a pedantic tone to explain things I already know, so this isn't necessarily type-specific. That said, I've learned over time to ask people how much they understand about a given subject so we can avoid these scenarios, otherwise I might crapflood them with superfluous details. Inquiring up front can save me time and frustration, and spare them insult or confusion.

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    Useless info definitely gets under my skin, but in some cases I like elaborate explanations.

    There have been far too many times in my life where I thought my skills were developed enough to accomplish some task, only to find out I really wished I had someone looking over my shoulder. For example, field work for my thesis: I have four years of theory under my feet, and 3 field seasons of mapping experience, but when it came to evaluating the structure of my shear zone, I sure could have used one of my advisors out there guiding me through a lot of the stuff I didn't know and couldn't address.

    On the other hand, there are cases where tasks are so simple and inane that any explanation borders insulting. Typically, I attribute that to projection by the other person, or a simple ignorance of what my abilities are. This is easier to partition if you have a general confidence about your skills and abilities.
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    thanks for the responses. i want to clarify how simple this stuff is. for example, on one of the pages she might have one of the words circled with the word "bold" next to and a line drawn out in the middle of a paragraph with a paragraph symbol drawn. she will then flip through each page and explain that she wants the circled word to be bolded and she wants a new paragraph where the paragraph symbol is. lol. i don't find the background/contextual information as annoying (i don't think its useful to me but at least its not insulting).

    i'm not sure if she thinks i'm stupid or if its because i'm young or if this is just her personality.

    i've tried several times telling her, "ok, i can get it from here, thanks," but its like she doesn't notice and she's just on autopilot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Maybe try mentally zoning-out/napping for a minute or an hour or however long she's redundant.

    People like her end up way happier if they can finish the script.
    yeah, she probably just needs to get it out of her system or something. lol, oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    thanks for the responses. i want to clarify how simple this stuff is. for example, on one of the pages she might have one of the words circled with the word "bold" next to and a line drawn out in the middle of a paragraph with a paragraph symbol drawn. she will then flip through each page and explain that she wants the circled word to be bolded and she wants a new paragraph where the paragraph symbol is. lol. i don't find the background/contextual information as annoying (i don't think its useful to me but at least its not insulting).

    i'm not sure if she thinks i'm stupid or if its because i'm young or if this is just her personality.

    i've tried several times telling her, "ok, i can get it from here, thanks," but its like she doesn't notice and she's just on autopilot.
    I imagine that would be frustrating!

    One thing that I would probably do, is take her unwanted attention and direct it toward my own ends. For example, I might play dumb and say, "there are a lot of symbols, can you put them together on a sheet so that I can refer to it later?"

    Either this works like a charm with her making you a sheet and getting out of your hair, or it provides a context for more direct confrontation.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Yeah laghlagh that person sounds like a nosy shrew to me. I'd get into a fight with her personally. God I don't know how to get along with people =(, I don't know how anybody does it! My first instincts is to fight or flight in a very Beta-y way.
    LOL, this sounds like me everyday. Good to know I'm not alone, since half the time I end up feeling like a social misfit.
    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    thanks for the responses. i want to clarify how simple this stuff is. for example, on one of the pages she might have one of the words circled with the word "bold" next to and a line drawn out in the middle of a paragraph with a paragraph symbol drawn. she will then flip through each page and explain that she wants the circled word to be bolded and she wants a new paragraph where the paragraph symbol is. lol. i don't find the background/contextual information as annoying (i don't think its useful to me but at least its not insulting).
    Wow! She sounds just like someone I was forced to work closely with for over 3 years, who I type as LSE. We supervised a department together, so there was no avoiding her. She was one of the main reasons I ended up quitting eventually. Gosh, can't think of her without feeling a little nauseated, lol, even though she was a nice person. Anyway, she would do the same thing you're describing to her trainees.

    Doesn't sound like Ti to me...she's not giving an explanation as to the reason for something, but rather just repeating facts over and over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Off-topic: Hmm, I've never thought of that as Ni-related. So is there Ni-efficiency, and Te-efficiency? It would explain why I find LSEs painfully inefficient, and they find me painfully inefficient...
    From my observations it appears to be so. Both Ni and Si are conservative functions only one strives to conserve time while the other is conservative in the physical realm. I've argued in some other thread that Te is not about efficiency and that Te-types aren't particularly efficient unless their Te is combined with Ni or Si in the ego.

    LSEs have different form of efficiency from us Ni types. They orient by Si, so they are effectively blind to the time efficiency that Ni strives to achieve, likewise we're blind to their Si style of conservation. Thus Si and Ni egos can view each other a rather inefficient.

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    For example, I might play dumb and say, "there are a lot of symbols, can you put them together on a sheet so that I can refer to it later?"
    LMAO. I almost fell out of my chair reading this. And it sounds like something my SLI boss would do, just to fuck with someone.

    Without being there in person, it's hard to say why she does what she does. Maybe she's hired a bunch of idiots in the past and she's trying to make sure you're not one of them. Maybe (for socionics reasons) she's questioning your intelligence. Maybe she's just an overcautious manager. Maybe she's just an idiot.

    You go from training very bright people who you can pretty much just let loose on the job to others that no amount of time or coaxing seems to get them performing at the level they're supposed to be at. There's a point where you wind up on auto-pilot sometimes and just rattle off information that's been said a billion times before.
    Yes.
    IEE

  31. #31
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Maybe she's ESE? Sometimes they can do stuff like that.

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