Famouses - homosexuales

[Sol]

Neil Patrick Harris (ENTP)


John Barrowman (ENTP)


Angelina Jolie (ENTP)


Lady Gaga (ENTP)


Ellen DeGeneres (ENTP)


Elton John (ISFP)


Jodie Foster (ISFP)


Drew Barrymore (ISFP)


Linda Hamilton (ISFP)


Anna Paquin (ISFP)


Ricky Martin (INTJ)


Boris Moiseyev (ENFJ)


Udo Kier (ENFJ)


Marlene Dietrich (ENFJ)


Ian McKellen (ISTJ)


Alain Delon (ISTJ)


Marlon Brando (ESTP)


James Dean (ESTP)


John Travolta (ESTP)


Megan Fox (ESTP)


Michelle Rodriguez (ESTP)


Pink (ESTP)


Madonna (ESTP)


Jaye Davidson (INFP)


Jim Parsons (INFP)


Leisha Hailey (INFP)


Sarah Paulson (INFP)


Anne Heche (INFP)


Bai Ling (INFP)


Maria Schneider (INFP)


Paris Hilton (INFP)


Lindsay Lohan (ESFP)


Zachary Quinto (INTP)


Cynthia Nixon (INFJ)


Stephen Fry (ISTP)


Fiona Shaw (ISTP)


Those with bisexual behavior are marked by italic font.

There is behavioral overbalance in types, but it's doubtful that types relate to primary sexual orientation. Rather the overbalance is due to type relating wish to live "as everybody" and an aspiration to keep uncovered this abnormality, and also type relating probability of homosexual behavior caused not by biological sexual orientation and love, but by experiment, kind of indiscriminateness, etc. Hence, some people may be known as bisexual while they are not such in essence (in general, I doubt, that primary bisexualness exists in noticable % of people).
Almost in all cases types of these people were identified by me befor I got information about their sexual behavior.

For educational purposes:
Sexual orientation (primary) - biologicaly conditioned trait of psyche to feel love and sexual attraction to people of concrete sex, while sexual behavior is secondary.
Sexual orientation in many if not in most cases is not related to inversion of sex traits, so there are many manly gays and womanly lesbians. Due to modern researches share of homosexual people is ~5 %, and in many cases their _only_ difference is sexual preference.

sources:
http://www.nndb.com (1, 2, 3)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...isexual_people

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Galen has Neil Patrick Harris as a Delta, I believe....but you have him as Alpha.

I think Pink is ESTp, but I don't think Madonna is.

And how come I'm not on this list! I'm famous and I'm gay! I'm one of the special rainbow magic-y ones. Waaaaah. ((lol))

[Exodus]

Wrong forum, buddy.

[munenori2]

Aww, Michelle Rodriguez looks adorable!

[Galen]

Lol, Gamma is the most heterosexual quadra because there are none of them on this list.

Don't worry, they do exist. Trust me



Here's a few of the homosexuals I have on my list:

David Burtka, Neil Patrick Harris's long-time boyfriend (Ne-ENTp)
Tim Gunn (ISXp)
George Takei (ESTj)
Richard Chamberlain (I had him as ESTj, may want to look at that again)
Russell Tovey, who I just found out about recently (seems Te-IXTp <3 )
Neil Patrick Harris (Te-ISTp, he's probably so/sx though so I can see how he comes off as an extrovert)
Brief glance at Sarah Paulson, she seems Fi-ENFp.
Anne Heche seems reasonably INXp.

I used to be so confident that Ian McKellen was Te-ISTp, but I'm not so sure about that at all anymore. He's starting to seem more and more Fe to me, although it's kinda obscured by his Britishness.

[pianosinger]

Is it just me, or why do so many of these people have freaky eyes? There's just something about the eyes...

[Slacker]

Is it just me, or why do so many of these people have freaky eyes? There's just something about the eyes...

I only see one with freaky eyes.

[pianosinger]

I only see one with freaky eyes.

which one?

[Slacker]

Udo Kier (ENFJ)

Him

[Galen]

Is it just me, or why do so many of these people have freaky eyes? There's just something about the eyes...

You're a homophobe.

[Galen]

It's because they're gay. Not joking lol. I remember a long time ago me and my sister noticed that about gay people haha. Not that they all have freaky eyes, but there's definitely a noticeable distinction in them compared to heterosexuals.

Maybe we should make a whole VI subsection for delineating gays and straights.

[Slacker]

I think freaky eyes are NGR.

[Galen]

I think freaky eyes are NGR.

lol not gay related

[ashlesha]

okcupid has a gaydar test where you basically get tested for your gayness vi'ing skills, i would link it if i wasn't on my phone, somebody should hah.

[Pa3s]

Him

What? Udo Kier doesn't look freaky.



...not at all.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Gay and straight is a lot of times more connected than people realize... Like why is Pink and Paris Hilton on that list? Those women are technically bisexual, not gay. Sexuality in women is probably more ambiguous and fluid than men anyway. That's why I write how homosexuality is connected to everything in the whole universe, because it really touches all people in some ways. Even if you are purely straight, you at least probably know somebody that's gay.

Many women enjoy the emotional connection and intimacy another women can provide, but still need to get fucked by dick. And some women are more of the pure lesbians and the thought of a man touching them that way disgusts them.

Some guys are very straight and want a wife and kids, but dick really turns them on, or some specific homoerotic encounter, they get really into. It doesn't mean they want a relationship with a man though. (I'm both sexually AND romantically into men though...) And society really shouldn't tease them that they're 'really gay deep down inside' because they might not be.

And as long as people want to advocate 'gay should still mean an all-purpose insult, and people shouldn't be sensitive about that', then there will always be 'closet cases' who don't talk about their homoerotic fantasies for fear of how society will view them, because 'gay' is still meant to mean 'homosexual' as well. So you really can't have it both ways. You can't indirectly treat something as inferior, and claim that you're not, and then at the same time think that everybody should be comfortable with whatever. They obviously won't be, if it's still objectively discouraged.

Otherwise, you would say 'That's so straight' just as well. But be honest with yourself. Nobody says that. Although I think I should, and then if people get offended, I can say 'you shouldn't be so sensitive, I obviously don't mean it against heterosexuals lolz.' See how that's a silly arguement? Cause 'straight' still means heterosexual as well.

Why isn't Rosie O'Donnel on this list? She's more of a pure lezzie than all of those women combined really lol.

[Galen]

okcupid has a gaydar test where you basically get tested for your gayness vi'ing skills, i would link it if i wasn't on my phone, somebody should hah.

http://www.okcupid.com/gaydar
It's not so much like VI as it is looking at overall demeanor, including facial expressions/features, clothes, etc.

I got 65%, which is apparently worse than the mean lol.
Retake gave me 45%, which is in the 4th percentile of all other members D:

[Slacker]

Lol. I don't know anything about him personally, but I remember reading something where he commented about how whenever he's staying in a hotel room, he finds the Bible that hotel rooms often come with and rips the pages out of it that condemn homosexuality.

I thought that was a really petty thing to do.

I think it's awesome. LOL.

[Galen]

Lol. I don't know anything about him personally, but I remember reading something where he commented about how whenever he's staying in a hotel room, he finds the Bible that hotel rooms often come with and rips the pages out of it that condemn homosexuality.

I thought that was a really petty thing to do.

Eh, I didn't think of that as petty, but it was more of a "what do you really accomplish by doing this" reaction from me. There are tons of things about the bible you could admonish, so why simply go with the homosexuality passage? Something about McKellen doing that strikes me as weird Fe/Ti, although that's not to say the mere act of ripping out a page in the bible is a sign of Fe/Ti; I can't explain it very well.

[Slacker]

maybe it just makes him feel better for those two minutes it takes.

[April]

I think it's awesome. LOL.

Agreed. I don't see why it's Fe/Ti.

[Galen]

Agreed. I don't see why it's Fe/Ti.

I just figure that if you're gonna do something like that, why not go ahead and rip out all of the passages in the bible that you object to? Why just stick with the homosexuality passage and not the parts about selling women or rape?

[Slacker]

Not sure about worldwide, but at least in the US and I think the UK, that isnt' being used as a reason to continue selling women today.

Maybe he is annoyed by the existence of the bible in th e hotel room for that reason and after he tears out those pages, he feels like he's dealt with it and then can relax more.

[Galen]

Not sure about worldwide, but at least in the US and I think the UK, that isnt' being used as a reason to continue selling women today.

It's not being used as a reason to kill homosexuals in the US or the UK either (by most people), but that doesn't mean they aren't written in the book. I understand that the homosexuality passage in Leviticus has a definite impact on him as an individual, but there's more to the bible than just that.

I'm not trying to bash Ian McKellen for doing what he does, I respect him a ton for who he is; that kind of thing just seems kinda uhm, weird I guess.

Here's the interview:

[glam]

Why isn't Rosie O'Donnel on this list? She's more of a pure lezzie than all of those women combined really lol.

And yeah, I was about to say Rosie should be on this list not because I think she's the greatest role-model out there, but she is Gamma and is pure gay.

hm yeah i thought Rosie might be LSE or SLE or something like that?

[pianosinger]

Freaky eyes...

Udo Kier (ENFJ)


Sarah Paulson (INFP)


Kristanna Loken (INFP)


Cynthia Nixon (INFJ)

idk, there were others originally, too, but then I thought maybe it's just bad makeup...

You're a homophobe.

Admittedly somewhat. Though, it doesn't help that the homosexuals I've known IRL didn't exactly leave a good impression on me...regardless of their sexual tendencies, they had a lot of other things about them that made me uncomfortable...Not all of them, granted, but enough of them.

Actually, I've been rather attracted to one or two in the past...My very first real crush turned out to be gay, and I felt very comfortable (if it's possible to be excited and comfortable at the same time) around him.

[Galen]

Freaky eyes...



idk, there were others originally, too, but then I thought maybe it's just bad makeup...

Most of those people look pretty Beta (save Sarah Paulson), so that could probably be the reason why.

Admittedly somewhat. Though, it doesn't help that the homosexuals I've known IRL didn't exactly leave a good impression on me...regardless of their sexual tendencies, they had a lot of other things about them that made me uncomfortable...Not all of them, granted, but enough of them.

Such as? Sorry if I'm prying too deep.

[717495]

Justin Beiber is ISFp.

[HERO]

Galen has Neil Patrick Harris as a Delta, I believe....but you have him as Alpha.

I think Pink is ESTp, but I don't think Madonna is.

And how come I'm not on this list! I'm famous and I'm gay! I'm one of the special rainbow magic-y ones. Waaaaah. ((lol))

What about me? Am I not famous and gay?

I like some of Pink's songs, especially her earlier stuff, yet if Madonna isn't ESTp what in the world is she. ESFp? ENFj? What? I'm pretty sure Bolt would think that Madonna is ESTp. I could believe ESFp for her as well. Yet ESTp works better because she has a song where she talks about "social disease" and that sounds like Fi-PoLR to me. "Don't want your social disease." That's one of the lines. I think.

[Marie84]

I just figure that if you're gonna do something like that, why not go ahead and rip out all of the passages in the bible that you object to? Why just stick with the homosexuality passage and not the parts about selling women or rape?

You bring up a good point here, I would guess though that he just feels more defensive about the anti-gay references because they personally have an affect on his life.
It could also be that homosexuality and rights for GLTB is still very debatable in this day an age, while things that passages in the Bible might support like mistreatment of women, slavery, race, etc, are no longer culturally acceptable or have been down right made illegal
I guess it would be somewhat like the equivalent of a Jew in the 1930's tearing out antisemitic paragraphs from a copy of Mein Kampf

[jughead]

Hah to say these peoples eyes look normal I think is the madness. Not the bi ones so much
The ones pianosinger posted are the ones I see too: they all look more militant. Like "I'm lez or gay as it gets."

[The Ineffable]

Freddie Mercury - EIE

[1981slater]

C3PO, ILI

[WVBRY]

oh no master Luke, I C3PO am ESE.

[pianosinger]

Such as? Sorry if I'm prying too deep.

One was a total diva.

One was simply obnoxious; would talk on and on about issues with his past (dude, get yourself a psychologist); and also talked about how he'd seen all these mythological creatures, like dragons and fairies and such-- and he was totally serious, too.

I also had a female friend who I suspect was bi, and she would try to get very touchy-feely with me and I at that time was not at all comfortable with being touched a lot in general, and it just weired me out. Plus, I just didn't want to swing that way anyway...but even if she was only doing it to be platonically friendly, I really didn't like it. She also had "past" issues, and was a very needy person in general. She would call me up on the phone, just to have me listen to her music with her (she'd hold the phone up to the stereo speaker), and I didn't like her choice of music, either. But I tried to be her friend, because we'd known each other for like, forever, and I also knew that she needed kind people in her life (she didn't get that at home). But whenever I was with her for very long, I would begin to feel stifled and depressed.

Another admittedly lesbian girl I knew, just freaked me out because she was also Wiccan and really into supernatural stuff. She had freaky eyes, too...

[Galen]

One was a total diva.

One was simply obnoxious; would talk on and on about issues with his past (dude, get yourself a psychologist); and also talked about how he'd seen all these mythological creatures, like dragons and fairies and such-- and he was totally serious, too.

I also had a female friend who I suspect was bi, and she would try to get very touchy-feely with me and I at that time was not at all comfortable with being touched a lot in general, and it just weired me out. Plus, I just didn't want to swing that way anyway...but even if she was only doing it to be platonically friendly, I really didn't like it. She also had "past" issues, and was a very needy person in general. She would call me up on the phone, just to have me listen to her music with her (she'd hold the phone up to the stereo speaker), and I didn't like her choice of music, either. But I tried to be her friend, because we'd known each other for like, forever, and I also knew that she needed kind people in her life (she didn't get that at home). But whenever I was with her for very long, I would begin to feel stifled and depressed.

Another admittedly lesbian girl I knew, just freaked me out because she was also Wiccan and really into supernatural stuff. She had freaky eyes, too...

Haha, well those are some pretty bad experiences. I wouldn't say you're homophobic though, as all of those experiences sound like case-by-case issues that are (for the most part) unrelated to sexuality. Eccentricity, overstepping interpersonal boundaries, etc.

[pianosinger]

Haha, well those are some pretty bad experiences. I wouldn't say you're homophobic though, as all of those experiences sound like case-by-case issues that are (for the most part) unrelated to sexuality. Eccentricity, overstepping interpersonal boundaries, etc.

Yeah. But they all just really gave me the impression that homosexuals were all these conflicted, psychologically unstable individuals; in fact, I have yet to meet a homosexual/bisexual IRL who was not abused and/or molested as a child; really makes one think...Well, the first example I gave (the diva) I don't know what his childhood was like one way or the other, but the rest (plus a couple I didn't mention in the PP) all had at least one instance of abuse or molestation in their past.

I don't hate homosexuals; but I do hate the idea that so many of them (and I will say this despite current "popular" opinion on the subject) might have been...normal had they not been messed up as children, and now instead of being helped and treated to overcome their aversion to the opposite sex they are rather being told they must accept it-- and some of them don't want to accept it.

[Slacker]

I know gay people and lesbians who weren't molested or treated badly as children. Including family members where I'm quite sure of their upbringing. I think the idea that gay people were "messed up" as children is a misunderstanding. Sure, some gay people were molested, as were some straight people. Lots of people of all sexualities have gone through that.

[HERO]

Yeah. But they all just really gave me the impression that homosexuals were all these conflicted, psychologically unstable individuals; in fact, I have yet to meet a homosexual/bisexual IRL who was not abused and/or molested as a child; really makes one think...Well, the first example I gave (the diva) I don't know what his childhood was like one way or the other, but the rest (plus a couple I didn't mention in the PP) all had at least one instance of abuse or molestation in their past.

I don't hate homosexuals; but I do hate the idea that so many of them (and I will say this despite current "popular" opinion on the subject) might have been...normal had they not been messed up as children, and now instead of being helped and treated to overcome their aversion to the opposite sex they are rather being told they must accept it-- and some of them don't want to accept it.

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html

"Since few people consciously recall traumatic events of any kind before the age of five, and since the graph for sexual abuse distribution by age runs roughly level from ages two to sixteen,(55) the incidence figures stated above should be increased by at least an additional 50 percent(56) to account for these three factors, Therefore, the corrected incidence rates are at least 60 percent for Girls and 45 percent for boys. Until someone is courageous enough to directly question the children themselves whether they have been molested - a simple procedure that has never been done in any published study to date - 60 and 45 percent should be considered as the most reliable national incidence rates we now have available for the U.S."

http://www.alice-miller.com/readersm...d=575&grp=0406

"Homosexuals are not an exception
Sunday April 23, 2006
Dear Alice,
Both the question posed by A.L. and your answer touch on something that I also have thought about many times.
My experience with people who describe themselves as "homosexual" has been that they are no more or less willing to discover their own pasts than any other people. Several times I have felt that they were not really so sure of their "sexual orientation" as they have let it be perceived.I have often wondered just how many of these men and women have been confused in their feelings,and thereby in their sexuality,like anyone who thinks of themself as being "heterosexual".About the only common factor that I have found amongst all these people is their unflinching belief in their happy childhoods,especially in their (fairy-tale) belief of having had a wonderful mother.
It is probably true that only the people themselves could shed light on the roots on their own sexuality, but I think it is important to counteract the influence of religion and "science",who see homosexuality as being a curse from the devil or only a matter of "genes", to focus on the early childhood experiences before determing, even for them,what is "normal".
I mean, how can any person determine,even for themselves,what is "normal" as long as the truth of their own personal histories remains a secret,even to themselves.
Truth is,they can´t.
sf"

'AM [Alice Miller]: Why do people expect and demand more from homosexuals than from heterosexuals? Why do the latter ones have the right to live unconsciously (with the image of their happy childhood and a wonderful mother) more than the former? Homosexuals do even less harm to society because they don't produce children to exploit them, abuse them, and teach them violence. Of course, they CAN abuse children and do much harm when they force them to keep silent. But many heterosexuals do the same, too, even if they are parents of [their] own children. So what is the matter with our demands? Do we question why millions of religious people say that beating children is right because of Solomon's wisdom? No, we don't do anything and see this as normal. Do we ask why millions of women let their daughters become sexually mutilated? No, we think that their religion is demanding that. But even the Koran does not demand this at all. It MAY be (I don't know it for sure) that the repressed rage of some men who were beaten as children by their mothers or sisters unconsciously wants to take revange when they are adults for what they had to endure in childhood. They honor their mothers and punish their daughters instead. So they feel good with this tradition and support it with their whole might. But be careful and don't give such information to anybody who does not ask you for it. They would kill you rather than accept the truth that they suffered abuse in childhood. You know how much time it takes to confront oneself with one's own childhood. So don't try to be a healer in telling people what they definitely don't want to know. You can only heal yourself, and this is much, very much.'

She's right. With all your college and university degrees and self-explanatory arrogance none of you could ever hope to amass the wisdom and insights she had.




People should note that this doesn't apply only to "gay" people -- "straight" people are abused as well. And a lot of them reproduce of course. And a lot of them abuse their own children. Alice Miller was never "homophobic" (at least not for the most part as far as I know), and Lloyd deMause (although he could be considered somewhat 'homophobic') never singled out 'homosexuals' for the magnifying glass/lens any more than any other people or group.

What is normal? Is it normal for a bunch of primitive and retarded North American rednecks and cowboys ('straight' and 'gay', born here or not) to go attack and prey on people IRL and on the Internet. Tell me honestly, is that normal?

The truth is a lot of people are still having children, and a lot of those parents might be (somewhat) 'bisexual' yet that doesn't mean they're more abusive than their 'heterosexual' counterparts. I don't plan on ever having children (or adopting or anything) though. I have too many problems. Chronic pain, emotional problems, etc. Even Absurd said I'm violent. So no sympathy for the devil, right? I mean who cares what a bunch of idiots that Cyclops (although apparently/unfortunately not niffweed) was/were too good for have to say. Let the Devil send (another) natural disaster our way, right? And let's fight about whether Jehovah's Witnesses are better than Catholics or whether 'gays' are better than 'straights' and whether Coke is better than Pepsi and whether Ashton is better than niffweed and on and on. Apparently I'm the one that needs to grow up and see the light. Right...because I'm angry and important/impotent like Niffweed (and Cyclops) -- we're all INFp. lol

...Anything's possible. Maybe one day, from my 300 dollars (more or less) from Safeway I'll go to a really good therapist that will actually help me uncover and heal from my traumas. Really? Yeah right. I doubt it. The therapists are afraid of uncovering their own traumas. As are you apparently. Otherwise you wouldn't be singling gay people out as more abused. That's absurd. They're not more abused than 'straight' people, and they're not less abused. I knew gay people (including myself) who didn't have any conscious memories of molestation. (Emphasis on 'conscious' -- we may have still been molested of course.) Maybe that's why we're so much more troubled than the rest right. I mean Galen is so nice and self-controlled. There's nothing meanspirited about him.
The gay guys I knew who stole and/or were aggressive and/or violent and/or mean were most likely ESTp and/or Beta. So? Not all gays are like that. Not all ESTp's are like that. Not all men are worse than women. Not all women are better than men. Yet to be honest I go to a gay bar and there are often (or sometimes) more men, but I like there to be women. I like women. Maybe I haven't had sex with one yet (and perhaps/probably never will). Maybe I haven't made a(nother) bastard child like my father -- one he'll never talk to, never write to, never call. He'll whisper to my Mother on the phone: "Come to Romania." Before I was born my Mom actually feared for her life due to his ties to the communist party and Ceausescu. My Mom and her family weren't communists and weren't part of the communist party. They were intellectual people. My maternal grandfather was an engineer, my maternal grandmother a school teacher. Maybe they weren't perfect, but they weren't communists and that's why they didn't get to go to the US (to visit/live there. My aunt wasn't too happy about that. I'm not a communist. I actually like democracy, regardless of the retarded things I might have said, and I have voted in the past. I'm glad I don't live in a place like Romania. I might've been tougher if I did, but you know, I still have a chance no matter what, right? Canada is one of the best countries in the world, and I like a lot of Canadian music, and I want to study more, and be someone. Even if no one cares. There is a life despite Socionics. And there is a life despite sex. What about Buddhism. Is the Dalai Lama a fag when he says it would be better for people to stop having sex (including straights) [stop the meat cycle or whatever] or when he permits non-insertive (non-penetrative) man2man sex amongst his monks.

I don't consider myself to be a very religious person, yet sometimes I feel so desperate in my life I'd like to just go to a Catholic Church and just sit down. And maybe even cry if I feel so inclined. Maybe I'm possessed. Maybe I need an exorcism. Maybe I need to go to my dead grandfather's grave in Romania. I never went there. And wail and cry like Sylvia Plath's character Esther did in The Bell Jar. We need to mourn our dead. We need to forgive ourselves, but we need to empathize with the child we once were. It wasn't our fault. Our parents weren't enlightened. None of us are. And I doubt you are. Kurt Cobain was kind of 'bisexual' (although generally more inclined to women; I don't know if he ever actually had sex with a guy). Unfortunately, he was also probably the kind of guy that (before the fame, fortune, CLove) probably also used to prostitute himself so he could buy drugs. But no, we don't care about the ('homosexual') predators or the (homosexual) [anal] rapists et al. It's all the gays (who aren't criminals or rapists) that are the problem. Not their parents etc. Don't blame the parents or perverts or pedophiles or rapists or mothers or fathers or teachers or adoptive parents or hospitals or psychiatrists or nurses or staff et al. Blame the children/victims! That's what we all seem to say. Let's blame them. They're adults now, and look, they hate women (or take drugs and/or are asking for it). (Or they're violent or wrestle and are brutal et al.) They're against the feminist aesthetic that's cultivated so well in this frigid North America of ours. Men being men with men all by themselves. It's blasphemy. It goes against industrialization and everything. The pale homosexuals cutting themselves, we forget about the 'feminist' girl who cut herself (in secret in her boudoir, erased like a fat gothic little shadow) and said, "Let them eat (use) condoms." [...Hep C, HIV, it's all good . . . Let's just kill ourselves and everyone and blame the racial extremists from the Beta quadra. Yeah, it's all on them.] "Why don't you want to be effeminate?" "Just use a condom." "Why don't you want to have a sex change too?" "In two weeks, the (real) 'sex' begins." Death before dishonour! . . .

Me, I'm A Thief/Sarah Slean (excerpted lyrics)
"Gotta fly/Gotta say goodbye/Gotta find out what's aching"
"Gotta fly/Gotta say goodbye/Leave them before they leave me"


Last but not least (since Absurd and you want me to get banned anyway)> Everyone's so happy without me and Cyclops here.

http://www.iraresoul.com/sex_essays.html#5

Daniel Mackler: "Homosexuality: A Chance For Human Evolution

Gay people who have come out of the closet have one main evolutionary advantage over straight people: they have experienced a basic pattern of breaking from the family system, and this creates in them a template for truth-telling that can apply to all other areas of life. At some level they know firsthand what it feels like to be rejected and pathologized by the worst of the family, and because they know how to define a part of their identity in spite of it, they take one step closer to enlightenment.

Much as some modern parents disguise it, parents do not want gay children – for a variety of reasons. A gay child is both a threat to rigidly heterosexual social norms and a fly in the ointment of the spiritually blind status quo. Parents often consider a gay child to be a humiliation, taking his homosexuality to be a reflection – distorted or otherwise – of their parental errors or imperfection. A gay child is also less likely to create children, and thus is less bound to perpetuate the denial of the family system. This puts parents at risk, because a child who does not procreate breaks an infinitely long intergenerational pattern and thus lives that much closer to looking them in the eye and calling them on their lies and depravity.

But many, if not most, gay people fail to seize their opportunity to break away and tell the truth, and in so doing serve the lying norms of society. They spend their lives pretending to be straight, jumping into gay relationships that might as well be straight, adopting children, or often even consciously denying that they are gay at all and getting married to members of the opposite sex – and actually procreating. It is no surprise that many closeted or pseudo-straight gay men become such pillars of our troubled society, and are even sought after as husbands by many stunted women: they are the poster children of dissociation! Their arrested development is not their homosexuality, but their dissociation from their homosexuality due to the traumas they faced in a family and society that hated their difference.

Other gay people squander their gift by acting out the worst of their traumas. They disappear into soul-numbing addictions and into the deadly mazes of S&M, promiscuity, exhibitionism, and other sexual compulsions. This sets the stage for society mislabeling their trauma-based perversions as the essence of homosexuality itself. They become caricatures of their potential and mistake self-hatred for self-love. Society, in its own twisted way, secretly applauds this self-abuse because it gives the norm a group to despise and a group onto which it can project its own disavowed shadow.

Yet all of this denial of self by gay people masks a desire to finally be loved and witnessed and accepted by the rejecting family. But of course this will never happen, and it’s not because of sexual orientation, which is just a cover issue. It’s because the family, wherever it is in any degree of denial, cannot love anyone fully. The sick sides of the family will only love – in a tainted way – those who have a false self that reflects back the family’s lies.

In order to evolve, each person, regardless of sexual orientation, has to face the same issues. He has to face his traumas, feel his buried rage, and grieve what he lost – and what he might have become if he had been better nurtured. This may be harder in some ways for gay people because they were more hated as children and had to hide more of their true selves. It is crushingly painful to be raised in a world that doesn’t support or often even acknowledge one’s feelings, and instead pathologizes them. But if gay people can grow true and express every iota of who they really are, then our world needs them more than ever. They model something that everyone needs: a connection with and a public acknowledgement of our beautiful and disenfranchised self."


Why is this kind of stuff so hard for people to understand. It's not self-explanatory. They just don't want to see. Good luck with your North American life and dream. You all deserve it."

[Slacker]

Two other things - it can be hurtful to see gay people as "not normal". It isn't really the best perspective to put on it. And, it's probably best to not have the idea that gay people were "messed up" as kids becasue it seems pretty random and that idea can cause parents to have a hard time accepting their own kids if they have gay kids. At least try to be careful talking like that in front of your kids becasue it would be awful if they were afraid to talk to you about it if one of them is gay, you know? I know someone who became estranged from her parents because she was afraid to even tell them that she was a lesbian. She just moved away and cut off contact with them. The idea of becoming estranged from either of my kids is so painful to me. I'm really careful to talk about homosexuality in a positive way around my kids so if one of them is gay she'll know she's loved and supported by her parents.