Te, Se, and Discipline

[Igxfl]

For some reason, it seems like discipline tends to be associated with . After much typing confusion centering around and individuals, I had an idea.

doesn't appear do anything it doesn't currently want to do. Note that often has a lot of resolve, forcefulness, etc., but it is always directed towards a goal desired in the immediate moment. In contrast, will force itself to do things it will dislike or is not in the mood for, provided those tasks are required by some set of standards or are expected to pay off in the future. This kind of makes the "getting things done" function.

This seems to make sense in light of the whole J/P thing, and it fleshes out my understanding of a bit more, a function which I previously found difficult to conceive of as anything more than 's idiot cousin. This is mainly because most descriptions I've read seem to amount to "memorizes gigantic lists of facts without bothering to understand them and blindly plugs them into situations that seem related." The alternate and/or additional idea I just described seems to make much more sense overall than the descriptions mentioned.

Please provide your contributions, modifications, refutations, commendations, condemnations, and comments.

[EyeSeeCold]

is the discipline function. is the submission fuction.

waits for explicit commands and acts on them as directed, ignoring mood, conditions and implied expectations.
also gives explicit commands and demands they be fulfilled however, the quality of work is not judged as critically as /(at least in Gamma, Delta is probably more critical)

[calenwen]

I can't offer anything useful about to Te, but what you've said about Se definitely fits into my own experience.
I always wait until I "want" to do something, and then I'm very impatient and I want to do it now. If I don't feel the urge to do something, I usually wait until I'm "in the mood" to do it, and if the mood never comes I'll do it at the last moment possible or after a bit of reminding (nagging). But this is just in regards to my personal life...
When it comes to other peoples' expectations I'm quite hard on myself because I feel terrible if I let them down and will plague myself with guilt, so I'm sure I must appear quite reliable and disciplined externally.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Sounds pretty accurate to me, and makes sense with / duality.

has been described as the function of personal willpower. So what you said makes sense, that only does what it wants to do.

Redbaron also said before that frequently an IEI will keep doing something over and over again that they don't really want to do. They need to break out of this cycle.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

In contrast, if Ni-dual seekers don't have to give their lives meaning, they have a tendency to be 'human doers' that doesn't take the most ideal course of action that makes themselves happy. They always do what they want to do, but they still don't get any satisfaction or contentment with it without !

They become bipolar and addicted to doing too many things at once (Although all extroverted types have a tendency to fall in this unhealthy pattern)

INFps in contrast will be addicted to doing the same thing over and over again thinking that the 765th time will make them just as happy as the 1st. That is equally mad.

[jughead]

Thats because they cant escape on their own.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Umm.... play a video game, have sex, do a drug, really any sort of thing that can be developed into an addiction.

I have an addictive personality.

This is because, IEIs feel pain deeply - being the artistic types of the socion, so anything that causes pleasure, has a tendency to be abused.

Plus it's the Te polr. INFps are weak against a lot of movement, and Te is a function that moves everything around a lot, and efficiently. Rick's socionics site says as much.

Then you have , which paradoxically breaks the INFp out of an addictive cycle, but still gives them something that they want. Just something different, lol. So they can cure their addiction without blaming themselves or beating themselves up for it. (Aren't dual seeking functions wonderful?)

((It makes a lot of sense to me, but I'd like to hear your opinions as well. ))

[jughead]

Lets find some examples.

Possible for XSI facing Te or anothers Se

[limNol]

Umm.... play a video game, have sex, do a drug, really any sort of thing that can be developed into an addiction.

I have an addictive personality.

This is because, IEIs feel pain deeply - being the artistic types of the socion, so anything that causes pleasure, has a tendency to be abused.

Plus it's the Te polr. INFps are weak against a lot of movement, and Te is a function that moves everything around a lot, and efficiently. Rick's socionics site says as much.

Then you have , which paradoxically breaks the INFp out of an addictive cycle, but still gives them something that they want. Just something different, lol. So they can cure their addiction without blaming themselves or beating themselves up for it. (Aren't dual seeking functions wonderful?)

((It makes a lot of sense to me, but I'd like to hear your opinions as well. ))

I don't know if it's type-related, and I'm skeptical that IEIs feel pain any more deeply than other types, but I do relate. When I find something I enjoy, it usually becomes an addiction. I think it's because I see so many aspects of my life right now as dull and grey that when I find something that really does it for me, I latch onto that. I suspect that IEIs are more prone to falling into this ennui, as opposed to our duals, who are good at finding and creating stimulating experiences. On the flip side, I think this can also lead SLEs into similar addictive patterns, albeit for opposite reasons.

[plotter]

The most "naturally" disciplined people I know either have as creative or mobilizing function.
As for having as mobilizing I would say that the -ego at least appear more disciplined. This might be just because they're better at efficiency though.
On the other hand do the LSE seem very disciplined, and even more so than the LIE.
The -bases I know are not at all disciplined They do a lot of stuff, but I wouldn't say that they are disciplined...

according to this that would mean: -creative > -base > -mobilizing
just a thought though

[squark]

I figure so long as I'm interested or passionate in what I'm doing, then 'discipline' takes care of itself automatically without inertia. Whereas if what I'm doing just feels like constant drudgery that I'm having to force myself through, without any return on a sense of life-affirming fulfillment… then, chances are I'm probably moving in the wrong direction and need to re-evaluate my course.

True.

[Singu]

Um, I'm an IEI and I don't particularly enjoy doing the same thing over and over again. That doesn't seem very type-related.

I also don't think that we necessarily feel pain more deeply than others. If you do, then you're probably doing something wrong, like actually feeling more pain than necessary. It might be that feeling pain or the feeling that you're abused have some subjective interest in you. It could be that you're secretly proud of being a sensitive fellow who feels more deeply than others and is in process of some sort of a noble suffering (and have a "poor little me" attitude like "nobody suffers as much as I do"). It could be that you are magnifying pain and suffering and in fact you suffer more. It could be a way to make others feel "guilty", and let them do things for you instead of taking the initiative yourself.

I don't think that Socionics can adequately describe these things or offer explanations when dealing with things like this. But what I think is happening is that yes, you are in fact suffering a lot, but you yourself are the one that is causing it to yourself, and you're making the externals responsible for the suffering. And that means even Socionics types.

*shrug* The only people I usually hear being preachy about the 'need for discipline' are Betas and Deltas. I tend to think of this sort of emphasis as an Aristocratic thing, and it makes sense why.

Yar agreed, I've always thought that Aristocrats took these things a little bit more "seriously" than the others.

[redbaron]

this talk of discipline makes me think of my delta NF mother. All her adult life she's bemoaned her lack of discipline, especially when it comes to eating and exercise. It feels like she's looking for some Si and Te in her life. Unfortunately, my dad offers Si and Fe in the form of eating and laziness so he's not much help! LOL

[Marie84]

I can see as the use of enforcing discipline and being more confident in ones allowance to enforce it, and and being related to confidence in knowing how to implement the correct/accurate means of doing such-and-such. Though I'd say the manner of applying discipline would differ by type and situation

but in general discipline is sort of an open-ended word so I could see any type being seen as overtly disciplinary, especially in situations where there's an established hierarchy, like parents or bosses

[calenwen]

I figure so long as I'm interested or passionate in what I'm doing, then 'discipline' takes care of itself automatically without inertia. Whereas if what I'm doing just feels like constant drudgery that I'm having to force myself through, without any return on a sense of life-affirming fulfillment… then, chances are I'm probably moving in the wrong direction and need to re-evaluate my course. Like Joseph Campbell says, "follow your bliss," and it'll take you where you need to be.

This is well said and so true. I only wish I had alighted on this conclusion earlier in life. I spent so much time putting myself through 'constant drudgery' for no reason save that I thought it was the "right" thing to do or because I didn't want to back down once I had started. I think this might relate to being an enneagram 1?

[Slacker]

The people I hear talk about discipline the most are Gamma and Beta. It seems like an Se thing to me. My ESI brother is big on discipline. But I do agree that LSEs are more into discipline than, say, myself or my husband, as we are both not into discipline either for ourselves or our kids, and also more than my LIE mom, who is of course Gamma. So it must be more complicated than that. Is there no poorly named Reinin dichotomy for this?

Cool - how did I put that little blue question mark up there?

[Igxfl]

Sure, types might impose discipline on others, or talk about discipline, but I'm not so sure they are necessarily very self-disciplined, which seems more common in types. Imposing discipline on others could be an thing, sure, but that's kind of an unrelated matter.