Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 84

Thread: Idea about how I can figure out my type

  1. #1
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Idea about how I can figure out my type...

    I came up with an idea about how I can do this. I read the descriptions of all the functions, and wrote out how I believe I react when I encounter information associated with these functions.



    I feel comfortable with this function. I easily see the connections between events that others miss, often causing people to think I can predict the future (but really I'm just VERY good at finding clues in the present situation that hint at the most likely future), and am often lost in thinking about the past and future. I definitely find beauty in this process.



    I enjoy THIS function as well. I'm very good at shifting perspectives, generating ideas, and discussing these possibilities. It can be a lot of fun. However, I don't trust it the way I trust . I respect people who use this function greatly, and think they have a lot of courage in trusting it. I may think up possibilities, but I'm not really willing to go out and just try them, without thinking about how likely they are to work. I need to plan things out a little more, gaze a little further into the future.



    This is actually considered a valid function?! I cannot stand people who get in your face and act aggressive, trying to assert their dominance over you like an animal. It's terribly uncivilized, in my opinion. People like this are my worst enemies. Okay, okay, I know I'm not being objective here, and that assertiveness/willpower has its uses. I know that some of these people are probably nicer than the ones I've had the misfortune to encounter. And it probably only bothers me because I'm so helpless to deal with people who act like this. I always feel forced to concede to their will... sometimes I try to fight back if I'm in a really frustrated mood, but I always lose. The only way I can win is to withdraw. I once had to leave a forum because of someone like this (probably SLE) being made a moderator after they'd bullied me. It probably didn't help that I had been too intimidated to report his posts. I lost a whole group of friends I'd known online for years, just to escape from someone who used this function. When I encounter people like this in real life, they seem to ruin everyone's comfort and make everything tense/stressful, especially for me and a lot of other Introverts. I wish I could stand up to them, and force them to back off... but I can't.



    This function is not nearly as threatening as . Sometimes I find it pleasurable, but most of the time I regard it as a distraction. If I'm in a good mood, I can pay attention to what I feel like doing, maybe I know what would feel good, I can go along with the flow, and enjoy the experience. But if I'm not in a good mood, I can feel harrassed just because someone asked me to eat. Sometimes it goes like this. "Are you hungry?" "Maybe. I'm not sure." "What do you want to eat?" "Food." "What kind of food?" "Good food." "What specific dish do you want?" "I don't know. Can't you just pick something for me?" "I don't know what you're hungry for!" "Well, then, leave me alone. I don't know either." Similar conversations may ensue when people ask me if I'm cold, or other questions about my comfort. I find it easier to select food from a menu, and easiest of all if the dishes are laid out before me, and I can actually see/smell them.




    I think I'm okay at this function, but not great. I will try to use it when I think it's called for. It's important to think for yourself, to have your own ideas about how logic works. You shouldn't always just go along with something because of an external authority, or because it's practical. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. I analyze things for internal consistency, and if they have none, I'm less inclined to trust them. I think of people who use this function as wise, and fairly good people, if not perfect.



    This function is really useful. I think it can be a bit cold at times, but if used properly, it can be helpful enough to others to make up for that. Organizing things, and performing tasks in an efficient manner, is a useful skill to possess. I'm not sure how good I am at it, but I don't think I'm totally incompetent when I try to use it. I feel like I don't get enough opportunities to use this function, partially because don't have the willpower to apply it consistently enough.



    I alternate between wishing I was better at this, and seeing it as a pointless/shallow way of being. It seems too casual, and not sensitive enough. I can see the merit in it, I suppose, but I prefer the way of doing things. I can go along with this if I have to, but it's not my preferred mode of operating. It just seems too presumptuous and chaotic to be a valid way of doing things long-term.



    Now, this is how people should be. It seems truly compassionate, caring, formal, polite, appropriate... all the things I would like people to be towards me, and the ways in which I strive to treat them. People should be allowed to express their feelings and opinions, and connect with people who are similar to them. I see no reason that people should have to have to repress their .


    What do you think? Illuminating or not?

  2. #2
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wallachia
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    2,195
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post


    I feel comfortable with this function. I easily see the connections between events that others miss, often causing people to think I can predict the future (but really I'm just VERY good at finding clues in the present situation that hint at the most likely future), and am often lost in thinking about the past and future. I definitely find beauty in this process.



    I enjoy THIS function as well. I'm very good at shifting perspectives, generating ideas, and discussing these possibilities. It can be a lot of fun. However, I don't trust it the way I trust . I respect people who use this function greatly, and think they have a lot of courage in trusting it. I may think up possibilities, but I'm not really willing to go out and just try them, without thinking about how likely they are to work. I need to plan things out a little more, gaze a little further into the future.
    Could you please tell where did you learn those properties of the Intuitions? The descriptions are actually very good, but they're inverted. I'm interested in your source because people use to invert them all the time and it would be good to find what the rotten apple is. This is an important problem and it basically forces people mistype all the time if used.
    ---

    Literally based on your answers, you appear to be Delta NF (IEE or EII).
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

  3. #3
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There does seem to be some confusion as to definitions of the IEs. Which site did you get your info from?

    Like Ni = connections. Well, it's more complicated than that. I don't know if you have them exactly inverted, but you definitely have them confused and maybe merged with some other IEs. I think you might have them more confused than just inverting them.

    from http://socionics.us/theory/information.shtml , here's a description of Ni:

    intangible connections between processes separated in time and space: sense of when things might happen, patterns of events, abstract representations of processes


    So not just connections, but specifically intangible connections between processes separated in time and space. It's like thinking about trends, how things happen over time. Abstract, subjective.

    Here's Si for a comparison:

    tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time: how events affect one's inner state; sensations, what one experiences physically


    I'm wondering if you might actually value Si but be confusing it with Ni. Also, according to the theory, Ni and Se are linked, so if you value one you'd value the other. You saying you value Ni but really don't value Se is an indication of confusion.

    And Se isn't about using tons of power and aggression really - it's more about knowing just how much power is needed, which often will be less than someone who is weak in Se but values it. I think you have some confusion about that IE as well.

    Anyway, I'd do two things. First, read up more on the functions to make sure you've got a strong understanding of what's what. Then maybe talk a bit about yourself without thinking about socionics or functions. Also, maybe interact in the Anything Goes forum, becasue I think when people are talking about non-Socionics stuff, you can sometimes see them clearer. Oh wait that's three things.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  4. #4
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    which function do you ignore?

    Because Se is an external sensory function, it can easily recognize the mood shift in an individual to adjust it's own thing to say and do something different to make it seem like they were on their side all along (this is called manipulation, but I think it's just a sensory perception and being able to be flexible and change); or use in the objective sense for tactical thinking in approach of an object. MD...if you're reading this, that also applies to but with TiSe the emphasis is placed on analysis of those things that are immediate and tangible. Because SeTi are so here and now, they long for something/someone that is not in the immediate present, someone who desires another place and time, hence Ni, to evaluate things that might help them see the future.

    What you're describing about liking to find clues to evaluate future events is actually Ni.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-07-2011 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    Could you please tell where did you learn those properties of the Intuitions? The descriptions are actually very good, but they're inverted. I'm interested in your source because people use to invert them all the time and it would be good to find what the rotten apple is. This is an important problem and it basically forces people mistype all the time if used.
    ---

    Literally based on your answers, you appear to be Delta NF (IEE or EII).
    I think I got the descriptions from Wikisocion, but there's also a possibility that I hadn't gotten rid of all my assumptions about the functions from MBTI, where they ARE inverted. In fact, most of the functions are inverted (or worse) in MBTI, like Si/Se, Fi/Fe, and apparently Ni/Ne. Only Ti/Te is even close to being consistent between the two systems, and it's not even that close.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Se is more about being able to handle confrontation, being strong of will, determined, and being able to attain and to understand things of an Se nature (allocation of objects in space, being in tune with what's going on in the present vs. so much in the far past, far future, I think). Pretty sure, now, I'm Se leading and definitely can be aggressive if I have a need (and Se is about knowing when force, aggression, and how much is needed when and where), but rarely would I act that way for no reason (usually it's to defend myself or others from accusations, retaliation, and punishing someone for doing something shitty and showing no remorse until they show remorse).

    Most Se leading people prefer people find what they want and go after it then pushing people around. In possession of power and authority, they might be a bit pushier, but most would use that ability expertly and only so much as needed.

    But I like the idea on this, just thought I'd point that out (because while it might be true with some Se types, most are not so...assholeish. Many are the opposite with letting people have freedom to do whatever. I get the behavior you described from LSEs and granted ESEs sometimes who use this without being too serious about it for better or for worse, not really giving two shits if they are constraining people's freedom, using force more sporadically and irresponsibly, ime, and such, finding emphasis on that to be fruitless, a means to an end.). But the behavior described I don't tolerate too well, either, though I don't usually take it without retaliating.
    Hmm... that's a good point. Maybe I've just encountered too many people who use Se badly, and it's made me wary of that element. I don't like it when people's freedom is restricted too much by force. I prefer for restrictions on people to be done for legal reasons that are predictable... not just someone's arbitrary application of their own will upon another. It goes against my .

    You seem like a nice enough person, and you apparently use as a leading function, so they can't all be bad... if indeed I'm not mistaking another type's bad for dominant .

  6. #6
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think at this point Ni > Ne based on how you describe those, but you have some confusion about those functions so I'm not ready to say for sure. Also, if you are very strong in Ni, you should value Se, but you show confusion about that function and that could explain the issue there.

    So maybe also look at descriptions of IEI, EIE, ILI, and LIE.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  7. #7
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Some people have a hard time figuring out their subconscious and what it's been asking for because it's in the subconscious...when you got with your husband did you say, boy it would be nice if I had an ???? and did you know at the time what that was? Same here, it takes the psyche some time to try to figure out what the missing link/desire is for. The mind also does strange things in absence of a dual, for instance I've seen EII who suddenly trying to be "controlling" (that's what their dual usually does), but they get very emotional when they can't; that's the subconscious begging for attention.

    Mirrorsoul, I suggest you describe what qualities in another individual you desire to have...maybe that will help.

  8. #8
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Some people have a hard time figuring out their subconscious and what it's been asking for because it's in the subconscious...when you got with your husband did you say, boy it would be nice if I had an ???? and did you know at the time what that was?
    Yeah, I think she completely doesn't understand Se and that's part of the problem. And no, I was raised by an LIE and an EIE. Well, now that I think of it, I immediately reacted favorably to how relaxed he was and his pace. But I didn't know about Socionics so I didn't know what Si was. I might have said, "I love how he's never in a hurry."
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  9. #9
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    Yeah, I think she completely doesn't understand Se and that's part of the problem. And no, I was raised by an LIE and an EIE. Well, now that I think of it, I immediately reacted favorably to how relaxed he was and his pace. But I didn't know about Socionics so I didn't know what Si was. I might have said, "I love how he's never in a hurry."
    Yes, but your reaction wasn't you knowing that's what you wanted before you met him right?

  10. #10
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Yes, but your reaction wasn't you knowing that's what you wanted before you met him right?
    No - your'e right, it wasnt' on my radar.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  11. #11
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    It would help if you tried to figure out if you want or like being in an Se atmosphere over Si.

  12. #12
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    There does seem to be some confusion as to definitions of the IEs. Which site did you get your info from?

    Like Ni = connections. Well, it's more complicated than that. I don't know if you have them exactly inverted, but you definitely have them confused and maybe merged with some other IEs. I think you might have them more confused than just inverting them.

    from http://socionics.us/theory/information.shtml , here's a description of Ni:



    So not just connections, but specifically intangible connections between processes separated in time and space. It's like thinking about trends, how things happen over time. Abstract, subjective.

    Here's Si for a comparison:



    I'm wondering if you might actually value Si but be confusing it with Ni. Also, according to the theory, Ni and Se are linked, so if you value one you'd value the other. You saying you value Ni but really don't value Se is an indication of confusion.

    And Se isn't about using tons of power and aggression really - it's more about knowing just how much power is needed, which often will be less than someone who is weak in Se but values it. I think you have some confusion about that IE as well.

    Anyway, I'd do two things. First, read up more on the functions to make sure you've got a strong understanding of what's what. Then maybe talk a bit about yourself without thinking about socionics or functions. Also, maybe interact in the Anything Goes forum, becasue I think when people are talking about non-Socionics stuff, you can sometimes see them clearer. Oh wait that's three things.
    Okay, I'm officially confused now. The descriptions of Ni and Si you just linked are extremely short and vague, and I can't understand them. They just don't make sense to me at all. If that's how a function description is supposed to work, I don't think I'm ever going to understand it.

    It's too hard to read up on the functions, because most of it is either extremely vague, inaccurate, or it's in Russian.

    I guess I'll just talk on the forums... I may just give up on trying to find my type. The problem is that many of the topics here assume that you know your type, which means there are a lot of things I can't add much on. There won't be a lot for me to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    which function do you ignore?

    Because Se is an external sensory function, it can easily recognize the mood shift in an individual to adjust it's own thing to say and do something different to make it seem like you were on their side all along; or use in the objective sense for tactical thinking in approach of an object. MD...if you're reading this, that also applies to but with TiSe the emphasis is placed on analysis of those things that are immediate and tangible. Because SeTi are so here and now, they long for something/someone that is not in the immediate present, someone who desires another place and time, hence Ni, to evaluate things that might help them see the future.

    What you're describing about liking to find clues to evaluate future events is actually Ni.
    Okay, so wait... now it is Ni? And Se is about reading situations?

    I'm not aware of ignoring any functions, to be honest with you. Ironically, that's probably because I'm ignoring the fact that I ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I think at this point Ni > Ne based on how you describe those, but you have some confusion about those functions so I'm not ready to say for sure. Also, if you are very strong in Ni, you should value Se, but you show confusion about that function and that could explain the issue there.

    So maybe also look at descriptions of IEI, EIE, ILI, and LIE.
    Sigh. I guess I could try that again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Some people have a hard time figuring out their subconscious and what it's been asking for because it's in the subconscious...when you got with your husband did you say, boy it would be nice if I had an ???? and did you know at the time what that was? Same here, it takes the psyche some time to try to figure out what the missing link/desire is for. The mind also does strange things in absence of a dual, for instance I've seen EII who suddenly trying to be "controlling" (that's what their dual usually does), but they get very emotional when they can't; that's the subconscious begging for attention.

    Mirrorsoul, I suggest you describe what qualities in another individual you desire to have...maybe that will help.
    That would be kind of difficult... you see, I'm asexual, and I don't really desire to have another individual in a romantic way. I would like to be connected to close friends, perhaps, but I don't want to HAVE another person.

  13. #13
    not gonna be around as much anymore
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    TIM
    C-IEE
    Posts
    1,258
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post


    That would be kind of difficult... you see, I'm asexual, and I don't really desire to have another individual in a romantic way. I would like to be connected to close friends, perhaps, but I don't want to HAVE another person.
    then maybe think of it this way...What things do you most value and try to provide for yourself, but struggle to do so and wish someone else would come along and provide those things for you? It doesn't have to be in a romantic sense, it can just be a friend, or a roommate or a sibling or parent.

    Also, have you looked much at Wikisocion? (there is a link at the top of the main page of these forums).
    Last edited by pianosinger; 03-07-2011 at 06:25 PM.
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

  14. #14
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You seem like the kind of person who smells like soap.

  15. #15
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wallachia
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    2,195
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    I think I got the descriptions from Wikisocion, but there's also a possibility that I hadn't gotten rid of all my assumptions about the functions from MBTI, where they ARE inverted. In fact, most of the functions are inverted (or worse) in MBTI, like Si/Se, Fi/Fe, and apparently Ni/Ne. Only Ti/Te is even close to being consistent between the two systems, and it's not even that close.
    Yap, that makes sense now. I suppose that MBTI got it wrong from Jung, made things somehow "fit" together, but note that MBTI is wrong as it concerns Socionics types and theory. Maybe this is the first thing you should consider as you're coming from there. No worries, though.

    It is rather easy to differentiate them, by understanding their meaning. Ne is also called the Intuition of potential or of opportunities. The most important thing here is the difference between Bodies and Fields - the Socionics equivalent of "Extroverted" and "Introverted" functions, terms which are used by virtually anyone, but they're improper. So, Bodies (Extroverted) functions deal with objects, things, *something*, while Fields (Introverted) are dealing with concepts, fields, relationships, rules, etc. So now it's easy to figure out that the Intuition which tells the potential of a current scenario deals with something which is actually perceived from outside (objects), it gives people those feelings of "I'm sure that ..." (when they're obviously not "sure") or "this is not going to end well", but based on something that's actually out there, in the environment. "finding clues in the present situation that hint at the most likely future" - that basically tells it all, it is focused on the objects, not principles.

    Ni, on the other hand, does not deal with *this* stuff, it's the constant realization of how events can unfold, possibilities, scenarios, identify trends, etc.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

  16. #16
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    You seem like the kind of person who smells like soap.
    And... what Socionic type are people who smell like soap, in your opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    Yap, that makes sense now. I suppose that MBTI got it wrong from Jung, made things somehow "fit" together, but note that MBTI is wrong as it concerns Socionics types and theory. Maybe this is the first thing you should consider as you're coming from there. No worries, though.

    It is rather easy to differentiate them, by understanding their meaning. Ne is also called the Intuition of potential or of opportunities. The most important thing here is the difference between Bodies and Fields - the Socionics equivalent of "Extroverted" and "Introverted" functions, terms which are used by virtually anyone, but they're improper. So, Bodies (Extroverted) functions deal with objects, things, *something*, while Fields (Introverted) are dealing with concepts, fields, relationships, rules, etc. So now it's easy to figure out that the Intuition which tells the potential of a current scenario deals with something which is actually perceived from outside (objects), it gives people those feelings of "I'm sure that ..." (when they're obviously not "sure") or "this is not going to end well", but based on something that's actually out there, in the environment. "finding clues in the present situation that hint at the most likely future" - that basically tells it all, it is focused on the objects, not principles.

    Ni, on the other hand, does not deal with *this* stuff, it's the constant realization of how events can unfold, possibilities, scenarios, identify trends, etc.
    The thing is, I still feel like I kind of do both. I sometimes I focus on the outer situation, and other times I'm just in my own head, thinking about how various things could unfold, the trends, etc.

    It doesn't really feel, to me, like you can have one without the other. They seem inexorably connected in my mind, and as though they're part of the same process.

    I suppose I'll just keep trying to figure out Socionic and , among other functions, though... until I do, I suppose I won't succeed in understanding my own psyche very well.

  17. #17
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    MD...if you're reading this,
    I see my presence on this forum is being felt, even in my vacancy.

    To mirrorsoul, welcome to the forums!

    Please answer this set of questions I made to help determine your type:

    1) Do you like art?

    2) Do you ever paint/draw/write in your freetime?

    3) How good or bad are you at scheduling your week, using a calendar, and planning out your activities?

    4) Which do you like more: the warm, clean smell of fresh laundry, or the satisfaction of solving an incredibly difficult puzzle?

    5) Someone steals your lunch. What is your initial reaction?

    6) Do you like sports? If so, what is your favorite sport, and why?

    7) Do you have goals in life? If so, what are they? Career, love, hobbies, etc.?

    8) How easy/hard did you find answering these questions of mine? 8a) How aware are you of your own preferences? 8b) Do you get offended when someone asks open-ended questions, when you're not sure why they're asking, or what they're looking for? Be honest.

  18. #18
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    1) Do you like art?
    Well, I like abstract art, Classical art, and similar artforms.... don't really care for the rest of it, though.
    2) Do you ever paint/draw/write in your freetime?
    I've tried to write before, but I'm not very good at it. I'd like to be, though.
    3) How good or bad are you at scheduling your week, using a calendar, and planning out your activities?
    I can only do it if a bunch of activities are assigned to me. I can arrange my schedule around activities that I need to do pretty well, but I'm not good at starting up an activity, or making a choice to start doing something with my time on my own.

    4) Which do you like more: the warm, clean smell of fresh laundry, or the satisfaction of solving an incredibly difficult puzzle?
    The satisfaction of solving the puzzle. I don't know if I'd notice the smell of fresh laundry, I only know that I like it better than something that smells bad.
    5) Someone steals your lunch. What is your initial reaction?
    I sigh, and go "Well, that's not right," and I either do without lunch, or go and buy some more.
    6) Do you like sports? If so, what is your favorite sport, and why?
    I don't like sports.
    7) Do you have goals in life? If so, what are they? Career, love, hobbies, etc.?
    At this point, my goal in life is to find a job, get some experience, and eventually move away from my parent's place to a city that I find more to my liking. Oh, and once I get there, I'd like to make some friends who share my interests in various things.
    8) How easy/hard did you find answering these questions of mine?
    Most of them were easy, but a few made me think.
    8a) How aware are you of your own preferences?
    It depends on what kind of preferences. I'm very aware of my moral/ethical preferences on an issue, or which ideas I like better than others, but I'm rarely aware of what I'm hungry for in terms of food, or how warm/cold I like a room to be.
    8b) Do you get offended when someone asks open-ended questions, when you're not sure why they're asking, or what they're looking for? Be honest.
    Not at all! Why would I? Asking questions is the only way to learn more about a person.

  19. #19
    Quaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    ...
    9. Do you watch the news or read the paper. If you do why or if you don't why not?

  20. #20
    Quaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    I can only do it if a bunch of activities are assigned to me. I can arrange my schedule around activities that I need to do pretty well, but I'm not good at starting up an activity, or making a choice to start doing something with my time on my own.
    You are not Se ego. Check

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    At this point, my goal in life is to find a job, get some experience, and eventually move away from my parent's place to a city that I find more to my liking. Oh, and once I get there, I'd like to make some friends who share my interests in various things.
    Sounds like a Ne/Si valuing plan. I think you have Ne in your ego.

  21. #21
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    Well, I like abstract art, Classical art, and similar artforms.... don't really care for the rest of it, though.


    I've tried to write before, but I'm not very good at it. I'd like to be, though.


    I can only do it if a bunch of activities are assigned to me. I can arrange my schedule around activities that I need to do pretty well, but I'm not good at starting up an activity, or making a choice to start doing something with my time on my own.

    The satisfaction of solving the puzzle. I don't know if I'd notice the smell of fresh laundry, I only know that I like it better than something that smells bad.


    I sigh, and go "Well, that's not right," and I either do without lunch, or go and buy some more.


    I don't like sports.


    At this point, my goal in life is to find a job, get some experience, and eventually move away from my parent's place to a city that I find more to my liking. Oh, and once I get there, I'd like to make some friends who share my interests in various things.


    Most of them were easy, but a few made me think.


    It depends on what kind of preferences. I'm very aware of my moral/ethical preferences on an issue, or which ideas I like better than others, but I'm rarely aware of what I'm hungry for in terms of food, or how warm/cold I like a room to be.


    Not at all! Why would I? Asking questions is the only way to learn more about a person.
    From these answers, and other clues on this thread, I believe you both value Ne/Si, and devalue Se/Ni. For this reason, I strongly, and very confidently, believe you are either Alpha or Delta.

    Glad I could help some. I'd have to read into things a little bit more, and spend some more time, to narrow it down more. But at least we got 8 types eliminated for you... only 7 more to go!

  22. #22
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quaris View Post
    9. Do you watch the news or read the paper. If you do why or if you don't why not?
    Well, I used to do so frequently. I was always interested in being informed. I still keep up with certain stories that I'm invested in, like the Wikileaks thing, but I've recently started ignoring the most of news, because it's too depressing (the economy and the middle east unrest). I still keep up with things related to my friends and their personal lives, as well as technology/science news, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quaris View Post
    You are not Se ego. Check
    I wouldn't think so. If I have Sensing in my Ego by some chance, it's more likely to be Si.

    Sounds like a Ne/Si valuing plan. I think you have Ne in your ego.
    I'm beginning to think so as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    From these answers, and other clues on this thread, I believe you both value Ne/Si, and devalue Se/Ni. For this reason, I strongly, and very confidently, believe you are either Alpha or Delta.

    Glad I could help some. I'd have to read into things a little bit more, and spend some more time, to narrow it down more. But at least we got 8 types eliminated for you... only 7 more to go!
    I'm not sure what to make of Quadras, but that's an interesting way of going about things. Even when I followed MBTI, I always believed that you must value one function pair, and devalue the other. Most people didn't think that way, and it made them believe ridiculous things about their type. I was one of the most successful typists as a result of this belief. Now I'm starting over again...

    So, Alpha and Delta value Ne/Si, while Beta and Gamma value Se/Ni, right? Looks like all I have to do is figure out whether I value Fi/Te or Ti/Fe, and I should have my Quadra, at least.

  23. #23
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    I'm not sure what to make of Quadras, but that's an interesting way of going about things. Even when I followed MBTI, I always believed that you must value one function pair, and devalue the other. Most people didn't think that way, and it made them believe ridiculous things about their type. I was one of the most successful typists as a result of this belief. Now I'm starting over again...
    Yes, socionics>Myers-Briggs. I came from MB beforehand also, and I think a lot of others on this site did as well. Everyone believes socionics is better though, more in-depth. Once you go socionics, you never go back.

    And yes, when I was new, I was curious how people typed by these mysterious "quadras" lol. Now, I believe typing by quadra can be very accurate and helpful, once understanding the nuances of how the functions interact. I suggest doing some reading about quadras here.

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    So, Alpha and Delta value Ne/Si, while Beta and Gamma value Se/Ni, right? Looks like all I have to do is figure out whether I value Fi/Te or Ti/Fe, and I should have my Quadra, at least.
    Yes, perfect. That is correct. I could probably help figure out the Ti/Fe versus Fi/Te as well, it's just I haven't had enough time today to read this entire thread. Just read enough to know Ne/Si for sure, versus Ni/Se.

    But looking at either Alpha or Delta with that link would be a good start.

  24. #24
    limNol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    130
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    mirrorsoul, I think you're EII. Ne/Si is pretty clear, and your posts have the feeling of humanitarianism, sensitivity, and ethical assuredness that's typical of Fi leading + Se PoLR. Check out some EII and Fi-leading descriptions and see if they resonate.

    Also, trying to type by IEs is always frustrating, so don't let that deter you. Truth is, even people who've been studying socionics for years have a hazy understanding of what exactly the IEs are, which is why everyone is going to give you different definitions.

  25. #25
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by limNol View Post
    mirrorsoul, I think you're EII. Ne/Si is pretty clear, and your posts have the feeling of humanitarianism, sensitivity, and ethical assuredness that's typical of Fi leading + Se PoLR. Check out some EII and Fi-leading descriptions and see if they resonate.

    Also, trying to type by IEs is always frustrating, so don't let that deter you. Truth is, even people who've been studying socionics for years have a hazy understanding of what exactly the IEs are, which is why everyone is going to give you different definitions.
    Hmm... that's an interesting typing. That was one of the types I was considering earlier, actually.

    I think that everyone will probably develop their own idea of what the Information Elements are, so I think the best thing for me to do, would be to watch the forums for a while and see what people think the functions refer to, in addition to researching them further.

  26. #26
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    And... what Socionic type are people who smell like soap, in your opinion?
    I've known some creatives who smelled like soap.

  27. #27
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post


    I'm not sure what to make of Quadras, but that's an interesting way of going about things. Even when I followed MBTI, I always believed that you must value one function pair, and devalue the other. Most people didn't think that way, and it made them believe ridiculous things about their type. I was one of the most successful typists as a result of this belief. Now I'm starting over again...

    So, Alpha and Delta value Ne/Si, while Beta and Gamma value Se/Ni, right? Looks like all I have to do is figure out whether I value Fi/Te or Ti/Fe, and I should have my Quadra, at least.

    process type

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Process


    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post

    Not at all! Why would I? Asking questions is the only way to learn more about a person.

    Declaring type

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._and_declaring

    Overall tone

    Serious type:
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ry_and_serious

    You wanting to move away from your family means you're not ego type. We value bonds and it's emotionally difficult for an Fi ego to leave their loved ones and go too far. I know; I'm in frequent contact with my friends and family and Minde can also confirm this.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-08-2011 at 04:53 AM.

  28. #28
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That's interesting, you're using dichotomies. Maybe that will help explain a few things...
    You wanting to move away from your family means you're not ego type. We value bonds and it's emotionally difficult for an Fi ego to leave their loved ones and go too far. I know; I'm in frequent contact with my friends and family and Minde can also confirm this.
    But you don't even know why I'm leaving! Isn't that a little presumptuous? I certainly don't want to leave them, I just feel like it's necessary because they won't accept me for who I am, and if I'm ever going to be anything besides what they want me to be, I'll have to go. Besides, I only have one or two family members that actually care about me in the first place.

    Also, every time I think about working towards my goal, I end up feeling held back... I'm terrified at the thought of not having my mother around. So I'm planning to do it, but I'm having trouble making myself go through with it. I keep procrastinating, because part of me does want to do it, and the other part doesn't.

  29. #29
    Quaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Don't take maritsa seriously. She can be a bit sharp with her opinions.

  30. #30
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    That's interesting, you're using dichotomies. Maybe that will help explain a few things...


    But you don't even know why I'm leaving! Isn't that a little presumptuous? I certainly don't want to leave them, I just feel like it's necessary because they won't accept me for who I am, and if I'm ever going to be anything besides what they want me to be, I'll have to go. Besides, I only have one or two family members that actually care about me in the first place.

    Also, every time I think about working towards my goal, I end up feeling held back... I'm terrified at the thought of not having my mother around. So I'm planning to do it, but I'm having trouble making myself go through with it. I keep procrastinating, because part of me does want to do it, and the other part doesn't.

    Despite the level of care provided by these members, to Fi, the bond is still there, because of the level of relations and proximity to themselves. Hence, family, whether accepting or not is still a close relations and close emotional support for Fi; Fi would still try to adjust themselves to these relations to keep them close and not try to break these bonds, I'm speaking about Fi Base. Lessor valuing Fi types may not act this way. We make effort to adjust the relations to ourselves and seeing separation of these bonds, by moving or my divorce as a very painful thing.

    I'm not saying you don't have a bond with your family or whatever reasons there may be to get you to move, what I'm saying is that Fi Base would have a very hard time doing this if at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quaris View Post
    Don't take maritsa seriously. She can be a bit sharp with her opinions.

    You're an Alpha NT and I'm assuming not that well read in Socionics. Here, let me help you out. Mirrorsoul, don't take Quaris seriously; he can be a bit sharp with his opinions.

  31. #31
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Despite the level of care provided by these members, to Fi, the bond is still there, because of the level of relations and proximity to themselves. Hence, family, whether accepting or not is still a close relations and close emotional support for Fi; Fi would still try to adjust themselves to these relations to keep them close and not try to break these bonds, I'm speaking about Fi Base. Lessor valuing Fi types may not act this way. We make effort to adjust the relations to ourselves and seeing separation of these bonds, by moving or my divorce as a very painful thing.

    I'm not saying you don't have a bond with your family or whatever reasons there may be to get you to move, what I'm saying is that Fi Base would have a very hard time doing this if at all.
    Well, okay... I get it. Fi Base = valuing family over everything else. I don't, ultimately. Even though I think have a pretty good excuse. Fine, I'll eliminate EII...


    Quote Originally Posted by Quaris View Post
    Don't take maritsa seriously. She can be a bit sharp with her opinions.

    You're an Alpha NT and I'm assuming not that well read in Socionics. Here, let me help you out. Mirrorsoul, don't take Quaris seriously; he can be a bit sharp with his opinions.
    I'm sorry if I started an argument here.

  32. #32
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Maritsa wants to be seen as EII, which is very questionable, and which skews her idea of what EIIs are. Also, she doesn't like other women to be typed as EII. She has some bias that makes her unreliable.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  33. #33
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    Maritsa wants to be seen as EII, which is very questionable, and which skews her idea of what EIIs are. Also, she doesn't like other women to be typed as EII. She has some bias that makes her unreliable.
    I reported your comment to admistrator; I don't think you should criticize me this way. It makes me feel terrible that you can't just leave me alone; all you do is go around the forum and tell people what I'm doing or not instead of participating in a Socionics discussion. Your lack of Ti and analysis has only become an excuse for you to behave unethically with me and immorally.

    You're terrible to me in every way.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-08-2011 at 03:05 PM.

  34. #34
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    back to my discussion....I think you have a very good handle of Ti, Mirrorsoul, that is best demonstrated in this post...

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...6&postcount=47

    In order for Ti to have clear categories, it must define words, and be clear about their meaning.

    Here is Fi:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Fi

  35. #35
    Quaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    [Slacker's signature]
    *Looks at the signature...looks at certain posts in the thread...looks back at the signature...lols and proceeds to high five Slacker*

  36. #36
    Reflection mirrorsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With my parents. :(
    Posts
    269
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    back to my discussion....I think you have a very good handle of Ti, Mirrorsoul, that is best demonstrated in this post...

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...6&postcount=47

    In order for Ti to have clear categories, it must define words, and be clear about their meaning.

    Here is Fi:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Fi
    Hmm... well, how good would you say I am at Ti, exactly? And which block do you see it in? Ego? Id? Superego?

    The main problem I have with Ti, is that I would also have to value Fe... which I'm not sure that I do.

    I actually read that Fi description, and I do think I definitely relate to it more than Fe... but it could very well be a valued function in some other part of my psyche. It may not be Ego.

    Based on everything you've said, including the dichotomies, the only valid type I can see is ILI... but I'm not convinced yet. I think I'm going to keep on researching this for a while.
    Last edited by mirrorsoul; 03-08-2011 at 02:56 PM.

  37. #37
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    Hmm... well, how good would you say I am at Ti, exactly? And which block do you see it in? Ego? Id? Superego?

    The main problem I have with Ti, is that I would also have to value Fe... which I'm not sure that I do.

    I actually read that Fi description, and I do think I definitely relate to it more than Fe... but it could very well be a valued function in some other part of my psyche. It may not be Ego.

    Based on everything you've said, including the dichotomies, the only valid type I can see is ILI... but I'm not convinced yet. I think I'm going to keep on researching this for a while.

    Oh, and I think I'm going to avoid replying to this thread for a while... I feel like I'm causing commotion here. I don't want everyone to argue because of me.
    Again, it's not that easy to figure out, but I'm still holding on to my original typing of you:

    LSI - being exceptionally good at Ti, but you don't seem to show a lot of Fe, so I'm not counting this too far up the scale
    EII - being Ti role makes us very good at Ti stuff; more likely than LSI and LII
    ESI - also very good at Ti; because of them being so great at it, they often attract illusionary relations just like I attract a lot of ESE types; more likely than LSI and LII for you
    LII - again, the lack of Fe valuing, enthusiasm and joking makes me discount this typing for you
    IEI - have Ti activation; their activities with this function can very well exceed those who have Ti bases when the function is activated by someone who has ability of that function around them; hence making two introverted of that quadra an activity relations; generally Ti is involved in analysis and categorizing, as well as defining and clarifying meaning of terms for the labeling or building of these categories; so, if you are IEI, and you ever get into a relationship with an LSI, you may find yourself having very long discussion with them and getting very little done.
    SEI - also have Ti activation, but again you lack the drama of Fe.

    Other two options are:

    ILI - they can demonstrate Ti but eventually, they tire of it, much preferring an environment when in interaction with others. This is a process type

    LSI - also have Ti demonstrating and like ILI, may show that they can make and follow categories as well as judge outside circumstances by them, but they also much rather take part in Si; this is the cause of why they often attract conflictory relations to them. This is a result type.

    I would go for

    ESI
    EII
    ILI
    SLI

    for you
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-08-2011 at 03:14 PM.

  38. #38
    Marie84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    2,359
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    Well, okay... I get it. Fi Base = valuing family over everything else. I don't, ultimately. Even though I think have a pretty good excuse. Fine, I'll eliminate EII...
    I wouldn't rule out anything, especially based on Maritsa's knowledge since than we'd have to assume that people who are adults and want to live on their own are all Fi devaluers as well as every person who doesn't get along with their family, even those who've been horrifically abused (clearly not Fi valuers for allowing themselves to get beaten by their family!)

    If you want to know what Fi, or any of the IE's mean, you can read them yourself here
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

  39. #39
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,796
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post


    I alternate between wishing I was better at this, and seeing it as a pointless/shallow way of being. It seems too casual, and not sensitive enough. I can see the merit in it, I suppose, but I prefer the way of doing things. I can go along with this if I have to, but it's not my preferred mode of operating. It just seems too presumptuous and chaotic to be a valid way of doing things long-term.



    Now, this is how people should be. It seems truly compassionate, caring, formal, polite, appropriate... all the things I would like people to be towards me, and the ways in which I strive to treat them. People should be allowed to express their feelings and opinions, and connect with people who are similar to them. I see no reason that people should have to have to repress their .
    Can you give some real life examples of how you would use Fi to judge and approach situations? Why do you believe Fe is is too presumptuous and chaotic? Can you describe these functions in your own words?

    From what you have said I'm going to go with either ILI or IEI. Seems like both sensory functions annoy you lots while you value both of the intuitive functions just as lots, so that would point towards you being dominant in intuition of some sorts.

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrorsoul View Post
    I think I got the descriptions from Wikisocion, but there's also a possibility that I hadn't gotten rid of all my assumptions about the functions from MBTI, where they ARE inverted. In fact, most of the functions are inverted (or worse) in MBTI, like Si/Se, Fi/Fe, and apparently Ni/Ne. Only Ti/Te is even close to being consistent between the two systems, and it's not even that close.
    mmm not sure about that ... I'm a Ni-Fe-Ti-Se type in MBTI and in socionics same - Ni leading Fe creative. All of my functions match up. The type profiles assigned to the function though I found vary quite a bit which can lead to confusion.
    Last edited by silke; 03-09-2011 at 01:58 PM.

  40. #40
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I wouldn't rule out anything, especially based on Maritsa's knowledge since than we'd have to assume that people who are adults and want to live on their own are all Fi devaluers as well as every person who doesn't get along with their family, even those who've been horrifically abused (clearly not Fi valuers for allowing themselves to get beaten by their family!)

    If you want to know what Fi, or any of the IE's mean, you can read them yourself here
    I would appreciate it if you didn't mention my name at all while offering your input, which has no analysis and lacks total capabilities of Ti. And, for your information and lack of viewing, I did offer her EII as an options, which by the way has Fi, wouldn't you think?

    You have this careless habit of butchering what I write rather than reading. I think because if you actually read, you might come to agree that you don't qualify to be Fi base under my rules.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •