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Thread: Hating trial and error?

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    Default Hating trial and error?

    What types seem to hate a trial and error learning method? Te polrs? Se Polrs?

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    Trial and error is largely . I get frustrated easily, even if I prefer that over correct methodology. I'd say -Te PoLR or IEI.
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    My impression from Gulenko's writing on cognitive styles is that trial and error is most associated with Vortex cognition (ESE, IEI, LIE, and SLI). It seems likely that the types most likely to dislike this style would be those types' Conflictors (ILI, LSE, SEI, and EIE); in other words, the Dialectical-Algorithmic cognitive style.

    This is purely a hypothesis, though; while I have seen that Vortex types use trial and error, I have no data on whether Dialectical-Algorithmic types are annoyed by it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    What types seem to hate a trial and error learning method? Te polrs? Se Polrs?
    Hmm LSI and LSE, IMO. What can I tell you for sure is that LSIs hate it with a passion. What made you think Se and Te PoLR? (how are you looking at this issue?)
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    I like to apply the trial and error approach, which drives most people mad, specially the narrow minded.
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    I have basically nothing against this method. I typically use it if I don't (or not exactly) know the proper or established way of doing something. I agree that it can be quite frustrating, especially if you don't come to positive results, but actually, it's a natural way of learning.
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    You guys have done a good job of putting dislike of trial-and-error in general types terms. I could see it going either way, as a Te-devaluing thing or as related to the Gulenko cognitive styles.

    I don't love trial and error, but sometimes it's the obvious or only way to learn something new or solve a problem. I tend to gather a lot of information before engaging in it, though, so that the possibilities are narrowed down a bit in advance. And if a trial ends in error, I'll do research again, before the next attempt.

    What I really, really, REALLY hate is related to trial-and-error in my mind. I hate starting from scratch when I could have implemented or followed a system instead. For instance, four-way stops. It makes me insane to arrive at a four-way-stop and have people ignore the rules of who got there first, who is on the right, etc., and look at each other and decide how they feel about it, and make gestures to indicate someone else should go regardless of the traffic laws.

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    I'm not sure what type I am, but I certainly dislike trial and error. Don't get me wrong, I will learn that way if I need to do so, but I would much rather know what I'm doing than have to keep trying things that don't work. It gets frustrating and it wastes a lot of energy and time.

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    Can you define/describe what you mean by trial and error learning?

    If I'm solving a math problem, I'd much prefer to use algebra than plug in arbitrary numbers, but if there are only 2 sets of numbers and the calculations are easy, I'll do it.

    I refuse to use trial and error when cooking, because I hate throwing out food and I couldn't just throw out all my "errors".

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    For instance, four-way stops. It makes me insane to arrive at a four-way-stop and have people ignore the rules of who got there first, who is on the right, etc., and look at each other and decide how they feel about it, and make gestures to indicate someone else should go regardless of the traffic laws.
    I hate this too, but I don't really think of it as "learning by trial and error".

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I tend to gather a lot of information before engaging in it, though, so that the possibilities are narrowed down a bit in advance. And if a trial ends in error, I'll do research again, before the next attempt.

    What I really, really, REALLY hate is related to trial-and-error in my mind. I hate starting from scratch when I could have implemented or followed a system instead.
    That's my general approach too, I think it's quite illustrative of IEI Te-PoLR/Ti-HA.
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    I like trial and error when I need to learn something practical i.e. reparing or building a mechanical device, computer programming, a new sport. I diskile intensely trial and error when it's related to major life choices.

    My impression from Gulenko's writing on cognitive styles is that trial and error is most associated with Vortex cognition (ESE, IEI, LIE, and SLI). It seems likely that the types most likely to dislike this style would be those types' Conflictors (ILI, LSE, SEI, and EIE); in other words, the Dialectical-Algorithmic cognitive style.

    This is purely a hypothesis, though; while I have seen that Vortex types use trial and error, I have no data on whether Dialectical-Algorithmic types are annoyed by it.
    Yeah, that's a good point. My understanding of Vortex trial and error is analogical to what's scientifically categorized under the umbrella term "Monte Carlo Analysis": a large number of scenarios is generated and brought to its terminal end, then the optimal value is selected.
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    I value someone reading the manual, if there is one and doing it right the first time, but if I have to do it without a manual, than I will play around with it but not spend too much time on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I like trial and error when I need to learn something practical i.e. reparing or building a mechanical device, computer programming, a new sport. I diskile intensely trial and error when it's related to major life choices.
    Exactly!
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    I solve problems this way.

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    How about this? No. Try again.
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    Trial and error is the only way i learn
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Longer a Dating Site View Post
    Trial and error is the only way i learn
    Same here. The only way I learn is by doing something myself. I can't learn any other way. I hate getting thrown into things I have no clue what I'm doing but it's necessary to learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    I solve problems this way.

    Ok does this work? No. Try again.
    Does this work? No. Try again.
    How about this? No. Try again.
    What about this? No. Try again.
    Maybe this? No. Try again.
    Tried this? No. Try again.
    Hmm, this? Yes! Ding, ding, ding.

     
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    Who doesn't do trial and error? Whose THAT awesome?

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Who doesn't do trial and error? Whose THAT awesome?
    thank you, lol. i have been confused by this thread.

    i mean you might not just always shoot a random solution out of nowhere and hope that it works. hopefully you're in a position to have an educated guess most of the time. but its not like you automotically just know everything to begin with? i don't get it.

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    Why shouldn't I do something different if what I currently do doesn't deliver? If something CAN be done, then the failure means you did something/s wrong, missed to do something, or whatever, obviously, duh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Who doesn't do trial and error? Whose THAT awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    thank you, lol. i have been confused by this thread.

    i mean you might not just always shoot a random solution out of nowhere and hope that it works. hopefully you're in a position to have an educated guess most of the time. but its not like you automotically just know everything to begin with? i don't get it.
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    I don't really use trial and error. I learn everything I can about a problem, figure out what seems like the most likely solution, and implement it. If it doesn't work, I try to figure out why not, and understand the problem better until I figure out what's wrong. I don't just keep trying things until I find something that works (which is what I think of when I use the phrase "trial and error"). I do my best to minimize the amount of attempts necessary.

    I guess you could call my method "theory and experiment".
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    when I fail at something I do the same thing over and over again until i turn red and start to cry, then i smash it.
    Last edited by bg; 03-07-2011 at 01:55 PM.

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    Trial and error is how I live my life.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I don't really use trial and error. I learn everything I can about a problem, figure out what seems like the most likely solution, and implement it. If it doesn't work, I try to figure out why not, and understand the problem better until I figure out what's wrong. I don't just keep trying things until I find something that works (which is what I think of when I use the phrase "trial and error"). I do my best to minimize the amount of attempts necessary.

    I guess you could call my method "theory and experiment".
    This is exactly what I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    when I fail at something I do the same thing over and over again until i turn red and start to cry, then i smash it.
    lmao

  26. #26
    Creepy-bg

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    what i really do: do it the way that it's supposed to be done, then incrementally improve until I can produce a perfect "product", then start condensing the process and incrementally improving it until it's perfect and being done with the most efficency plus a new level of artistry. (the artistry level is where I become happy, proud, and satisfied with my results)

    I don't really see it as trial and error. I see it as success>improvement>WOW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I don't really use trial and error. I learn everything I can about a problem, figure out what seems like the most likely solution, and implement it. If it doesn't work, I try to figure out why not, and understand the problem better until I figure out what's wrong. I don't just keep trying things until I find something that works (which is what I think of when I use the phrase "trial and error"). I do my best to minimize the amount of attempts necessary.

    I guess you could call my method "theory and experiment".
    This method has its merits too. Things where one cannot experiment because the price of failure might be just to high come to my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    what i really do: do it the way that it's supposed to be done, then incrementally improve until I can produce a perfect "product", then start condensing the process and incrementally improving it until it's perfect and being done with the most efficency plus a new level of artistry. (the artistry level is where I become happy, proud, and satisfied with my results)

    I don't really see it as trial and error. I see it as success>improvement>WOW!
    Yeah, that's how I'd ideally try to execute any task. Although, the incremental improvement has to go through trial-and-error in my case, otherwise I cannot learn.
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    I think some level trial and error is unavoidable as we are not infallible. But certain types go thru different ways of doing it.

    What I do is structure the problem space and variables within the problem space, create a working design and prototype, then I debug design and prototype.

    Only one step of the process involves any sort of short term trial and error, the last part. Now I can go thru this process multiple times but this would be over multiple years.

    I tend to focus on design and prototyping and althrough I do debug and identify problem at a high competency level because I usually have a good grasp of the design.

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    I like trial and error. Sometimes it drives a brother nuts. Sometimes I exagerate it to drive a brother nuts. It's the easiest way to do things. No complicated thought process and when it works, it obviously works.

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    Usually I first think of what could happen if I do something wrong, and how likely that is.
    If I find trial and error-approach unsound I get the know how first.

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