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Thread: On the Ignoring Function

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    Default On the Ignoring Function

    I'm not entirely sure what the ignoring function does. The wiki seems fairly contradictory. For example, it says "A person has very little use of this element," but later says "[The individual] sometimes uses it extensively in private, and can call upon it when necessary."

    I'm left with a lot of questions, most importantly:
    -What does the ignoring function do?
    -In what way is its information carefully chosen to fit the view of the leading function, as the wiki suggests, if the wiki is right and if I have interpreted it correctly?
    -What does it feel like to use the ignoring function?

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    I find this difficult too.

    But this is my idea.

    The ignoring function is part of the Strong group. So it's strong.

    But it's mostly ignored. So you rarely use it, but if you use it, you are good at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igxfl View Post
    I'm not entirely sure what the ignoring function does. The wiki seems fairly contradictory. For example, it says "A person has very little use of this element," but later says "[The individual] sometimes uses it extensively in private, and can call upon it when necessary."

    I'm left with a lot of questions, most importantly:
    -What does the ignoring function do?
    -In what way is its information carefully chosen to fit the view of the leading function, as the wiki suggests, if the wiki is right and if I have interpreted it correctly?
    -What does it feel like to use the ignoring function?
    Often when I use my ignoring function I feel guilty, because I know that I and my friends don't value it. Although I recognize that it's sometimes useful, I often go to incredible lengths to avoid it. I would say it feels wrong and deadening (perhaps that's more -specific tho). It's the weakest of the strong functions. Often when you're using your leading function you're actually using the ignoring function too, because they're two sides of the same coin in certain ways. However, one is explicit and the other is implicit. It's generally used less freely than the demonstrative function.

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    Ignoring is the 7th function, right?

    I've always understood the 7th/8th function whatever-it's-called block as a sort of "I could do that, but why bother" part of one's psyche, except that the individual isn't really capable of duplicating the IE in question. Like for me, Ni and Fe come off as really unusual uses of Ne and Fi that I can marginally understand, but I don't know how I'd ever really recreate something like that, nor would I ever see a need to replicate them.
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    I can "use" my Ni-Ignoring quite well, but am only really interested in doing so when I see a need for it, or when I just happen to be "in the mood for some Ni." Otherwise, I find it annoying. Though if I'm in a good mood, I will put up with Ni-use in other people, and sometimes even play along. I can also be observant of other people "using" Ni and tell when they are taking it to an unhealthy level; like with my Ni-Base husband, sometimes he requires me to bring him "back to Earth" when his Ni runs away with him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    I can "use" my Ni-Ignoring quite well, but am only really interested in doing so when I see a need for it, or when I just happen to be "in the mood for some Ni." Otherwise, I find it annoying. Though if I'm in a good mood, I will put up with Ni-use in other people, and sometimes even play along. I can also be observant of other people "using" Ni and tell when they are taking it to an unhealthy level; like with my Ni-Base husband, sometimes he requires me to bring him "back to Earth" when his Ni runs away with him.
    Quick say something Ni.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    It sounds like it's fairly useable, but the information it provides is mistrusted, and probably not used or communicated much (unless verified by a more favored function, of course). Is that about right?

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    The Ignoring function tends to be something that you're well aware of, and something you could easily handle if you had to, but you find it completely boring and tiresome to be forced to pay attention to it.

    LIIs are well aware of how to apply efficient and practical methods of doing things (Te), but get bored keeping track of that sort of stuff, and would much prefer to be analyzing how the world fits together logically (Ti).

    ESEs are well aware of the opinions and sentiments of people, whether people like them or not, etc. (Fi), but would find it boring and annoying to constantly be monitoring relationships and people's personal opinions. They can do it if necessary, but they'd much rather focus on having fun and creating a positive emotional atmosphere (Fe).

    ILEs are well aware of trends and how things are developing in the long-term, and they can forecast how things are likely to turn out if it's really called for (Ni). But instead of trying to foresee deep into a future that might never happen, they'd much rather be exploring all the potential and possibilities in the world, searching for new and interesting ideas to pursue (Ne).

    These are just some examples, not an exhaustive description of how each Information Element works. But I hope it's helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Quick say something Ni.
    There's a mall down the street from us. My husband has it all figured out, that if there were ever an apocalypse, and our family were the last people in our town, he would take us all to live in this mall, because it has an area that would make a perfect green room for growing produce, that is sheltered from the outside and any dangerous creatures that might be roaming the streets.
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    lol busted.

    Not .
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    lol busted.

    Not .
    It's Ni combined with Te. Extrapolating events into the future = Ni. Focus on practical, logical action = Te.

    How is it not Ni, in your view?
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    Something you can give away freely. Something usage whichof is perceived beneficial by your surroundings.
    Last edited by Trevor; 03-02-2011 at 03:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    There's a mall down the street from us. My husband has it all figured out, that if there were ever an apocalypse, and our family were the last people in our town, he would take us all to live in this mall, because it has an area that would make a perfect green room for growing produce, that is sheltered from the outside and any dangerous creatures that might be roaming the streets.
    I don't get any real sense of out of this. This sounds like something even ESXjs like my dad do, plan everything out way ahead of time in order to bypass predicted future incidents (sometimes to ridiculous extents). What were you going for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    It's Ni combined with Te. Extrapolating events into the future = Ni. Focus on practical, logical action = Te.

    How is it not Ni, in your view?
    Anyone can talk about the future. There was no mental modelling of physical representations in the process.

    "My husband has it all figured out"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I don't get any real sense of out of this. This sounds like something even ESXjs like my dad do, plan everything out way ahead of time in order to bypass predicted future incidents (sometimes to ridiculous extents). What were you going for?
    Okay, how about this similar, but more explicitely imaginative, example: Just this morning, my husband asked me if I thought we should get an indoor ladder, so that we can use it to climb up and break a hole in the ceiling so we can escape upstairs (to our neighbor's) in case Zombies are ever trying to break in...he's real into the whole "Zombie Apocalypse" craze right now, which I cannot understand...I mean, I suppose it's mildly entertaining, but of course it's never going to happen, so why spend so much time thinking and talking about it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Okay, how about this similar, but more explicitely imaginative, example: Just this morning, my husband asked me if I thought we should get an indoor ladder, so that we can use it to climb up and break a hole in the ceiling so we can escape upstairs (to our neighbor's) in case Zombies are ever trying to break in...he's real into the whole "Zombie Apocalypse" craze right now, which I cannot understand...I mean, I suppose it's mildly entertaining, but of course it's never going to happen, so why spend so much time thinking and talking about it?
    This still sounds like what I said in my last post. I mean my ESFj dad likes to prepare for lots of minuscule problems like this too (except he prepares for real problems lol).
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    I would much rather live in a PoKeMoN universe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Planning is definitely anti-. Plans are annoying.

    I would much rather live in a wildly unpredictable chaotically disordered universe full of random events transpiring out of nowhere, things falling from the sky, animals talking Chinese, etc.
    lol point taken

    unless you were serious
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    You ignore other's information delivered from this function. Take my ESE sister and cousin, for instance, we can talk and do Si all day and for hours and hours and totally deactivate one another, but we can't talk about anything that's important with each other. Hence creating a very shallow relationship because neither of us can truly advice and help in any real way and we don't value the information that's being exchanged so the help isn't very important or interesting. We try to get the other to "listen" to us and to agree with us, this usually happens naturally in a dual pair, but for some reason, ignoring functions with illusionary don't work like that. Illusion tries to get me to see things their way, but I ignore what they say because it isn't of any value or importance to me and my world goals/needs.

    Ok so what's a good example of this?

    My ESE cousin thinks that I care WAY too much about other people and that I should worry about me and be self-concerned about my needs and concentrate on the inner me. I don't put myself ahead of others (I would prefer to find a balance and do it in moderation, but in general I'm much more concerned with others than my self). Whatever she spews out about the ego and the self after that point goes into my memory junk file (I can hardly remember all the things she speaks about). This creates frustration on her part when she turns to me and asks "Did you get what I'm trying to tell you?" Of course I heard it but I don't value it. I'm an Fi, love relations first, she knows that, but she doesn't care about Fi, and certainly doesn't care about what I say about others and how I feel towards other people, wanting, again for me to concentrate on me, myself, and I.

    You don't receive external information that doesn't fit with the base function through ignoring first. So if information is contradicted with the base function, it is ignored (this is done subconsciously/consciously) and a lot of it is gone unnoticed until you have a relations of illusionary, than you notice that some things they say just doesn't apply to you and you can't make yourself apply it.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-02-2011 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Why wouldn't I be serious?
    What you said sounds like the complete opposite of how I personally would want to live my life, so it was kinda hard to tell if you were being sarcastic or what-not. Plus I was afraid of having made an over-generalization, which I excoriate everybody else for doing all the time lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Planning is definitely anti-. Plans are annoying.

    I would much rather live in a wildly unpredictable chaotically disordered universe full of random events transpiring out of nowhere, things falling from the sky, animals talking Chinese, etc.
    Translation: I want to trip balls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Planning is definitely anti-. Plans are annoying.

    I would much rather live in a wildly unpredictable chaotically disordered universe full of random events transpiring out of nowhere, things falling from the sky, animals talking Chinese, etc.
    We know you're not LIE already. At least, this is contradictory with your self-typing, no one's gonna change the descriptions based on your caprices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    I can "use" my Ni-Ignoring quite well
    you can't use a single function, everything gets colored by your leading function. You have no control over that part.

    It's common bullshit on this forum.

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    I think that the 7th function is well termed as the "ignored" function "observing" function or "personal knowledge" function, however it is best termed as the "controlling" function IMO. You try to restain this element, as Glamourama once pointed out but this is only true in yourself. You restrain it so YOU can use your own dominant function, but when it comes to others, however, thats a different story. You try to control so that others will use it in a way that serves your best intererest IMO. Also its where subconscious stubborness in opinions and attitudes form as you can accuratly asess how others are using this function. If they are using it well, you approve of them, if they use it badly, you openly disapprove of them though you yourself might not know why, and when others ignore this function, it tends to be frustrating for you because you need this function in order to function properly in an environment, or else you are at a loss for the correct "script". A good example of this would be Fe dominants vs Fi dominants. Fi dominants are good at assesing the state of one on one relations, but they ignore how to use the whole "in the moment" form of social interaction, which is Fe. Fe dominants are the opposite then; they know how to interact with people in the moment, but tend to let things go where maintaining relations with people once the interacting is finsished is concerned. Hence when one uses the others' 7th function well, it allows them to maintain a balanced stance on feeling - since both "in the moment" interacting and knowing the state of your relations with people are indispensible. This is also where we get into supervision relations and approval and disapproval of supervisees by their supervisor - the supervisor can accuratly asses the supervisees HA through their 7th function, and since we all know the hidden agenda is the most desperate of all the functions, the supervisee is desperate for the approval of their supervisor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    you can't use a single function, everything gets colored by your leading function. You have no control over that part.

    It's common bullshit on this forum.
    I agree with you. Sorry I worded myself poorly. I understand that no function is used in isolation.

    Please be a little kinder next time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    I agree with you. Sorry I worded myself poorly. I understand that no function is used in isolation.

    Please be a little kinder next time.

    apologese.

    I just encountered it too often I guess. And I'm quite sensitive to errors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    apologese.

    I just encountered it too often I guess. And I'm quite sensitive to errors.
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    My view on the usage of the ignoring function is multifaceted.

    When you are exposed to the ignoring function I think there's a tendency to think, "Oh, yeah I see what you mean, but that's not really how I'd put it," or "Yeah you're right, but you're also kind of missing the point."

    When I listen to Peter Schiff on one of his scathing monologues over government fiscal policy, I agree with what he says and see the advantages in the way he's saying it, but when people disagree with him I think, "Ahh, you're not saying it right. Say it this way and you'll pwn them." I take the gist of his Te observations and conclusions and convert them into Ti expressions.

    Yes, you get it, but too much of it bores and annoys you, and you get impatient to express the information through your base rather than make a discomfited attempt at reiterating the line of thinking.

    I also think that the ignoring function can

    Moving on, there's now the issue of personally using the ignoring function. The problem is that you perceive the ignoring functions outputs as "flawed," so as mentioned earlier, you instinctively want to reframe them into base function outputs. So in order to consciously use the ignoring for a serious purpose, you have to suddenly halt mid-thought and then explain to yourself why you're doing it, and I think it takes immense effort, since the base has to be applied with great exactness in order to not contaminate the desired decoction.

    However, I believe the ignoring can be used as a kind of implement for non-serious activity. I think it happens naturally, unconsciously, in certain scenarios. Joy mentioned her SEI father flying into a pretend Se tirade (I think she authored this example in the wiki, too) in order to make it look like she was in trouble so that she could abstain from a social outing. He didn't realize he was doing it, to him it was "silly" behavior; he can do it, but he doesn't see any reason to unless there's some very specific application.

    My SEI mother and SLI father can both flare up via Se, usually in situations of stress, and there's nothing faux about it. My dad's the boss at work, and he likes to run a harmonious that is conducted rationally and without any drama. When people slack off, he attempts to redirect them into productivity, and he'll make several attempts before reluctantly approaching them and telling them in very strong terms, to stop slacking off and go drive to the next clients.

    Likewise, I can apply Te when stressed. When my ILE brother calls me and bombards me with ten million totally obscure yet logically defensible reasons why humanity needs to unite and explore space, I fall back on "common sense" Te: "Yeah, well if that happens, then fine, but we're not going to see it in our lifetimes, nor is it realistic that you or I will make any sort of difference on whether or not this vision is ever achieved. So there's really no useful reason for me to even be thinking about this." Instead of taking him head on, I perceived him as a foe and fell back on a totally different approach to the discussion.

    So I think it's something that sits in the back of the psyche, done either when being silly or, with reluctance, when it seems necessary for tactical reasons.

    That's all scattered and disjointed, but I don't feel like editing it, so poopy.

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    There is no way Peter Schiff is a LIE. Just sayin'.
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    Then what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    My view on the usage of the ignoring function is multifaceted.When you are exposed to the ignoring function I think there's a tendency to think, "Oh, yeah I see what you mean, but that's not really how I'd put it," or "Yeah you're right, but you're also kind of missing the point."

    When I listen to Peter Schiff on one of his scathing monologues over government fiscal policy, I agree with what he says and see the advantages in the way he's saying it, but when people disagree with him I think, "Ahh, you're not saying it right. Say it this way and you'll pwn them." I take the gist of his Te observations and conclusions and convert them into Ti expressions.

    Yes, you get it, but too much of it bores and annoys you, and you get impatient to express the information through your base rather than make a discomfited attempt at reiterating the line of thinking.

    I also think that the ignoring function can

    Moving on, there's now the issue of personally using the ignoring function. The problem is that you perceive the ignoring functions outputs as "flawed," so as mentioned earlier, you instinctively want to reframe them into base function outputs. So in order to consciously use the ignoring for a serious purpose, you have to suddenly halt mid-thought and then explain to yourself why you're doing it, and I think it takes immense effort, since the base has to be applied with great exactness in order to not contaminate the desired decoction.

    However, I believe the ignoring can be used as a kind of implement for non-serious activity. I think it happens naturally, unconsciously, in certain scenarios. Joy mentioned her SEI father flying into a pretend Se tirade (I think she authored this example in the wiki, too) in order to make it look like she was in trouble so that she could abstain from a social outing. He didn't realize he was doing it, to him it was "silly" behavior; he can do it, but he doesn't see any reason to unless there's some very specific application.

    My SEI mother and SLI father can both flare up via Se, usually in situations of stress, and there's nothing faux about it. My dad's the boss at work, and he likes to run a harmonious that is conducted rationally and without any drama. When people slack off, he attempts to redirect them into productivity, and he'll make several attempts before reluctantly approaching them and telling them in very strong terms, to stop slacking off and go drive to the next clients.

    Likewise, I can apply Te when stressed. When my ILE brother calls me and bombards me with ten million totally obscure yet logically defensible reasons why humanity needs to unite and explore space, I fall back on "common sense" Te: "Yeah, well if that happens, then fine, but we're not going to see it in our lifetimes, nor is it realistic that you or I will make any sort of difference on whether or not this vision is ever achieved. So there's really no useful reason for me to even be thinking about this." Instead of taking him head on, I perceived him as a foe and fell back on a totally different approach to the discussion.

    So I think it's something that sits in the back of the psyche, done either when being silly or, with reluctance, when it seems necessary for tactical reasons.

    That's all scattered and disjointed, but I don't feel like editing it, so poopy.
    Looks like Ne activation

    LSI analyze what's in front of them.
    I thought you typed your mom ESE...????

    Well, both you and I can agree that you are realistic...hence an S type.

    Boy, you seem to enjoy talking about the observation of your relationships (Fi) a bit much for an Fe valuer (so you claim).
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-03-2011 at 06:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    My view on the usage of the ignoring function is multifaceted.

    When you are exposed to the ignoring function I think there's a tendency to think, "Oh, yeah I see what you mean, but that's not really how I'd put it," or "Yeah you're right, but you're also kind of missing the point."

    When I listen to Peter Schiff on one of his scathing monologues over government fiscal policy, I agree with what he says and see the advantages in the way he's saying it, but when people disagree with him I think, "Ahh, you're not saying it right. Say it this way and you'll pwn them." I take the gist of his Te observations and conclusions and convert them into Ti expressions.

    Yes, you get it, but too much of it bores and annoys you, and you get impatient to express the information through your base rather than make a discomfited attempt at reiterating the line of thinking.

    I also think that the ignoring function can

    Moving on, there's now the issue of personally using the ignoring function. The problem is that you perceive the ignoring functions outputs as "flawed," so as mentioned earlier, you instinctively want to reframe them into base function outputs. So in order to consciously use the ignoring for a serious purpose, you have to suddenly halt mid-thought and then explain to yourself why you're doing it, and I think it takes immense effort, since the base has to be applied with great exactness in order to not contaminate the desired decoction.

    However, I believe the ignoring can be used as a kind of implement for non-serious activity. I think it happens naturally, unconsciously, in certain scenarios. Joy mentioned her SEI father flying into a pretend Se tirade (I think she authored this example in the wiki, too) in order to make it look like she was in trouble so that she could abstain from a social outing. He didn't realize he was doing it, to him it was "silly" behavior; he can do it, but he doesn't see any reason to unless there's some very specific application.

    My SEI mother and SLI father can both flare up via Se, usually in situations of stress, and there's nothing faux about it. My dad's the boss at work, and he likes to run a harmonious that is conducted rationally and without any drama. When people slack off, he attempts to redirect them into productivity, and he'll make several attempts before reluctantly approaching them and telling them in very strong terms, to stop slacking off and go drive to the next clients.

    Likewise, I can apply Te when stressed. When my ILE brother calls me and bombards me with ten million totally obscure yet logically defensible reasons why humanity needs to unite and explore space, I fall back on "common sense" Te: "Yeah, well if that happens, then fine, but we're not going to see it in our lifetimes, nor is it realistic that you or I will make any sort of difference on whether or not this vision is ever achieved. So there's really no useful reason for me to even be thinking about this." Instead of taking him head on, I perceived him as a foe and fell back on a totally different approach to the discussion.

    So I think it's something that sits in the back of the psyche, done either when being silly or, with reluctance, when it seems necessary for tactical reasons.

    That's all scattered and disjointed, but I don't feel like editing it, so poopy.
    Nice. I agree fully with all of that.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Ignoring function is something you prefer not to pay attention to and get tired, bored, and annoyed when other people place focus on it. I mean, it can be really, really annoying.

    However, it is something you are more aware of than you realize, particularly when this information neglected could be detrimental to information of the base function because then you notice it (if this information relates to what you want to accomplish with your leading function or negatively effects the information you perceive in relation to the base function...a possible example is, how I might neglect the quality of my appearance (Si) since it takes up time for me to do the things I want, but when with friends and in public, I notice the details of my appearance and start caring as to how I am aesthetically, care about looking 'nice' and notice anything that hinders that, because this is related to my social influence in being perceived as attractive in a general sense (Se)). Otherwise, it's given bare minimum attention, ime.

    I could cite further observational examples and my own experiences (because this is how I learned and learn socionics and how I fuck up socionics by taking non-type related shit and making a false case), but it really comes down to boring and annoying information. Anything related to maintenance of life's physicalities will either bore me, piss me off, or make me shut up (i.e. talking to me about how clean a house is, how to keep machinery up to snuff, the processes of physical maintenance to keep things working, aesthetic, and/or clean is annoying and boring and is something I have little to say about in that it holds no interest. I rather know what to do and not discuss the matter or have to expend a lot of energy thinking of such things because it is tiresome and feels limiting on my freedom to have an expanded outlet of activities, freedom to move around, do what I want, socialize, whatever).

    I also see this in some ILEs I know who get side-tracked and ruin schedules(their schedules and other people's schedules) by finding something random to do and decide to neglect time constraints and planning in order to breed maximum spontaneity (Ne)...which ticks the Ni valuers off (me and say EIE). Might seem like an arbitrary example, but when you see it and see it over and over again...you kind of get a peek as to how socionics is playing out there...which seems to only aggravate the feelings of annoyance, ironically.
    Omg. try living with my mom. Things she talks about:
    the house is dirty
    the litterbox needs to be cleaned
    "I feel sick today"
    let me tell you about my sinuses
    My cold is getting better
    the car sounds weird today
    the dogs are shedding a lot

    LOL! It's all Si. (or maybe I'm mistyping it, IDK). whatever it is, it makes me want to punch myself in the face.

    I identify a lot with what you said about appearance. I just today had that whole experience of "I don't give a fuck about my appearance" changing suddenly to "aww, everyone thinks I look like crap." hahaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Moving on, there's now the issue of personally using the ignoring function. The problem is that you perceive the ignoring functions outputs as "flawed," so as mentioned earlier, you instinctively want to reframe them into base function outputs. So in order to consciously use the ignoring for a serious purpose, you have to suddenly halt mid-thought and then explain to yourself why you're doing it, and I think it takes immense effort, since the base has to be applied with great exactness in order to not contaminate the desired decoction.
    Yeah, there's this weird schizo thing that happens when you try to express the ignoring function, and actually the creative function too. They're both strong but they kind of counteract the base function in a way that makes them very difficult to express in a way that doesn't contradict your values. With weak functions it's like, whatever, I don't feel obligated to use that anyway.

    So I think it's something that sits in the back of the psyche, done either when being silly or, with reluctance, when it seems necessary for tactical reasons.
    Yeah. Another example is when I eat something I automatically look at the ingredients and nutritional information, even though I don't really end up using it; it's just an impulse that I'm acting on. Or when I go on a walk, trying to find the shortest way, or comparing prices at the supermarket. It's a situation that is very immediate and doesn't require a lot of higher-level thought, but still forces you to use the function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    When you are exposed to the ignoring function I think there's a tendency to think, "Oh, yeah I see what you mean, but that's not really how I'd put it," or "Yeah you're right, but you're also kind of missing the point."
    I find for me, when dealing with very heavy Ni, I can never really tell what the point they're trying to make is. It can sound like arbitrary strings of grammar that I don't know how to translate into English; I'll see if I can find examples of that kind of thing later.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Anyone can talk about the future. There was no mental modelling of physical representations in the process.

    "My husband has it all figured out"
    Like Si, Ni deals with dynamics of fields. Both IEs monitor the dynamic connections between things -- the processes by which one object affects another. Si monitors explicit dynamics of fields -- the directly observable ways that one object affects another in the here-and-now. The most obvious facet of this is physical comfort and pleasure -- this chair (Object A) causes my body (Object B) to feel comfortable.

    Ni monitors implicit dynamics of fields -- how one object affects another in ways that are not directly observable, usually because those ways are either too large-scale or too abstract. Time is the most obvious example of this. Since long periods of time are not directly observable at any one moment, then the contemplation of how events at one point in time affect events occurring a long period of time in the future is clearly an act of Ni. Practical long-term plans, therefore, are the province of Ni+Te.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "mental modelling of physical representations". Could you explain, or provide a link that explains?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Like Si, Ni deals with dynamics of fields. Both IEs monitor the dynamic connections between things -- the processes by which one object affects another. Si monitors explicit dynamics of fields -- the directly observable ways that one object affects another in the here-and-now. The most obvious facet of this is physical comfort and pleasure -- this chair (Object A) causes my body (Object B) to feel comfortable.

    Ni monitors implicit dynamics of fields -- how one object affects another in ways that are not directly observable, usually because those ways are either too large-scale or too abstract. Time is the most obvious example of this. Since long periods of time are not directly observable at any one moment, then the contemplation of how events at one point in time affect events occurring a long period of time in the future is clearly an act of Ni. Practical long-term plans, therefore, are the province of Ni+Te.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "mental modelling of physical representations". Could you explain, or provide a link that explains?
    The IM element was Ni...pianosinger said the whole thing was already planned out. When Galen said "Quick say something Ni" you'd think pianosinger would have came up with an original functional use of Ni, not recall an idea that was already made up which only relates to Ni in theory.


    Ni deals with the images and other snapshots of Se, attaching meaning to them; constructing mental models and playing around with them mentally. Through this you perceive developments by recreating scenarios. This is mainly an Ni dominant thing, but if everyone can use all functions, perhaps non Ni egos don't have enough dimensions.
    Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 03-03-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    The IM element was Ni...pianosinger said the whole thing was already planned out. When Galen said "Quick say something Ni" you'd think pianosinger would have came up with an original functional use of Ni, not recall an idea that was already made up which only relates to Ni in theory.
    All right all right. The example of my husband was the first thing that came to my mind and I was too lazy to think of something original. But here, let me try now...

    Gosh, you know what? I am dead tired right now and my mind seems to be full of fluff and stuffing like Winnie-the-Pooh. I am utterly void of inspiration. Maybe I'll have some weird dream tonight that I can jot down and then take apart to interpret symbolically.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post

    Ni deals with the images and other snapshots of Se, attaching meaning to them; constructing mental models and playing around with them mentally. Through this you perceive developments by recreating scenarios. This is mainly an Ni dominant thing, but if everyone can use all functions, perhaps non Ni egos don't have enough dimensions.
    This, perhaps. Your Ni is 4-dimensional, while mine is only 3-dimensional, and therefore situational. I lack the ability to quickly perceive development over time. Though, I could probably manage it if I've encountered a similar situation in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    The IM element was Ni...pianosinger said the whole thing was already planned out. When Galen said "Quick say something Ni" you'd think pianosinger would have came up with an original functional use of Ni, not recall an idea that was already made up which only relates to Ni in theory.
    Oh, ok, I see what you mean. I interpreted Galen's request to mean "Quick, give an example of Ni," rather than "Quick, use your Ni." Relating a story of her husband's use of Ni would be an appropriate response to the former, but not the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Ni deals with the images and other snapshots of Se, attaching meaning to them; constructing mental models and playing around with them mentally. Through this you perceive developments by recreating scenarios. This is mainly an Ni dominant thing, but if everyone can use all functions, perhaps non Ni egos don't have enough dimensions.
    Hmm. This actually sounds like it might be more related to the Dialectical-Algorithmic Cognitive Style. ILI and EIE would think in this manner, but LIE and IEI would use the more random and chaotic Vortical-Synergetic style.

    Holographic types (LII, IEE, SLE, ESI) also build mental models, but of a different kind. In a way, you could say that Dialectical-Algorithmic types build dynamic mental models, while Holographic types build static mental models.
    Last edited by Krig the Viking; 03-04-2011 at 01:32 AM. Reason: typo
    Quaero Veritas.

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