Ni and Self-Consciousness/Self-Awareness

[silverchris9]

My new theory is that Ni, especially NiFe, is all about self-consciousness. I mean, that's not the only thing it does, but one of the things it gives rise to is a life that notices the self.

Of course, the classical statement of self-noticing is Walt Whitman's Me Myself in section 4 ("apart from the pulling and hauling..."). But Harold Bloom is noticing the same phenomenon when he attributes Shakespeare's characters with the power of "self-overhearing," the ability to change based on what you hear yourself say (which presupposes the Second Self, the Self that watches and can order a change in the Primary Self, the Persona that acts. Or perhaps the change is in that Third Thing which does not have a name).

Maybe this isn't actually associated with Ni--and properly speaking, I'm not claiming that Ni IS self-consciousness, but rather than high-level, well-developed Ni can often manifest itself in this sort of, abstracted-from-myself self-looking or self-awareness. Similarly, low-level, one-dimensional Ni can manifest itself as a failure to be self-aware, to be aware of what is going on within yourself at a deep level.

Thoughts?

[Creepy-Korpsey]

My new theory is that Ni, especially NiFe, is all about self-consciousness. I mean, that's not the only thing it does, but one of the things it gives rise to is a life that notices the self.

If you were NiTe instead of NiFe you'd have reached the same essential conclusion by a different route. My thinking also has a strongly meta-cognitive overtone like the one you describe.

[silverchris9]

Oh, well good. NiTe too then.

Now that we see that the gate isn't large enough to get everyone in who should be in, let's see if it's large enough to keep everyone out who should be out. 1-D Ni-ers, do you see yourself this way? How do non-Ni-egos see this idea?

[krieger]

i'd say being aware of yourself as an object within reality with certain quantifiable properties invariant to your mental state is more of a Pe thing; one could construe that as a form of "self awareness" with equal justification

[Igxfl]

Could awareness level be more related to the degree of proficiency gained in non-ego functions that with any particular functions themselves?

[Skeptic]

Why do you have this theory

What is it based on, and

Could you elaborate

[The Ineffable]

Why do you have this theory

What is it based on, and

Could you elaborate

You ask way too much .

[Beautiful sky]

Here's an example of my subconscious regrets with regard to time and how that function manifests into me demonstrating Ni.

Sometime ago, I had an opportunity to buy a house and I regret not taking the necessary measures to complete the purchase and the house now costs way more than I would have purchased it for.

The above is the subconscious influence of time and that event and how that even stresses me out until today. I missed the opportunity; but can't let go of the even that impacted my decisions/course of action. What I hope and want is Te, to explain to me how things are moving dynamically so that I can brush away this thought from my subconscious. Because I talk about this even the way I do, I demonstrate Ni, but I'm really Fi. Most people here can't see type as a picture, rather they see it as pieces of a puzzle.

[Creepy-]

I relate to this proposed aspect of , and that is most likely my base. I'm not sure whether the correlation is high, but I could easily see how the typical attributes could imply the concept of "self-awareness".

[Igxfl]

Well, it seems that the ego functions of any type tend to be used in a very automatic and possibly habitual fashion. On the other hand an individual might pay more attention to less favored functions when forced to use them, and be more likely to use less favored functions in appropriate situations if more self-aware. So I guess I'm not sure which causes which, but they seem as though they would go together.

[EyeSeeCold]

Seems like this will quickly devolve into a discussion on semantics.

OP it'd be great if you could clarify your definitions, perspectives and aspects of self-consciousness and self-awareness.

[silverchris9]

Seems like this will quickly devolve into a discussion on semantics.

OP it'd be great if you could clarify your definitions, perspectives and aspects of self-consciousness and self-awareness.

Yeah.

That's what the examples are for, since I don't really have a strict definition, but I will try to describe what it's like for me and see if that helps.

Ever since I was very young (like VERY young, like four or five, maybe younger), I've had a distinct sense of standing outside myself and observing myself, both in what I say to other, and in what I think. I watch myself watching. I've always had a sense of being to some degree separate from myself; there's always a part of me that's acting, but there's always a part of me that's watching too. For instance, just now, I was thinking about whether or not what I am saying is too dramatic... thinking about what cliche or trope I am falling into right now in my attempts to describe myself. When I watch old videos of myself, I can see myself thinking... and then noticing my own thoughts and judging them as good or bad, to be welcomed or to be avoided, etc. I am always aware of my own motives. Sometimes I'll say something accidentally, like a Freudian slip, and I'll notice two seconds later that it's a Freudian slip, and feel bad about it, which makes it seem more like an intentional slight than it is.

Anyway, the theory is partly based on this facet of my personal experience, and partially based on romantic poetry, much of which is about self-consciousness and is written by Ni-egos (Wordsworth in particular is all about "metacognitive" speculation). Most of the Romantics were Ni-egos, with the possible exception of Byron, who does not talk about himself nearly as much, and in fact features an occluded self in a lot of his work. Also, I've noticed a lack of this kind of self-awareness in ESEs I've been close to lately. It's like... ARGH, aren't you aware of what you're saying and doing, and the very obvious motivations for it, and don't you notice yourself doing these things, and doesn't that bother you? Aren't you aware of what is going on inside of you?

So yeah, that's some further explanation of my thought.

[Creepy-Korpsey]

Like a monkey fucking a football.

[EyeSeeCold]

Redundant. Socionics discussions are pointless language debates.

The semantics of the functions - yes. I mean the semantics of self-consciousness/self-awareness.