Why do Duals tend not to notice each other?

[Clumsy]

...?

[DirectorAbbie]

I have an easy time spotting duals. I have to put forth effort not to type everyone I meet.

I don't think my dual is too good for me because LSEs are more productive than EIIs. My duals do tend to be boring. They're predictable, but so am I. They're just nice. Sometimes one comes along who's funny, too. That's not so boring.

[Beautiful sky]

Yes, because the male counterpart of my duals are usually very intellectual and sometimes they like a woman who can match or exceed them in that arena and that's kind of hard to do for me because I don't really do what they do, which is suck down loads of Te (information), so I might seem a bit boring. I also really think that they are better dressers and they judge me based on how I look (I can be very casual and not into wearing sexy things). I'm sort of a plain jane type. I think they might want me to be more like them too, especially the ones who don't know much about socionics and what they need (Fi) that truly makes the relationship complete. They expect me to be more experienced, traveled, socially enlightened (culturally as well); although, I do try to do these things, I just don't have the drive to pass my relations up for doing it all the time. Some of my duals are night life people who have interests such as going out drinking and dancing. I'm an introvert. For the best description of who I am. I don't think drinking is healthy for you (Si) and it also is very bad for disrupting sleep patterns (I've had to tell my dual cousin to slow down on the wine consumption). Extraverted Te types have hobbies that they do on a regular basis; I think my Se PoLR wears me out to the point where activity just seems to drain the life blood out of me.

They are, in a lot of ways too good for me. Even better looking too. I'm just an average joe.

I have an easy time spotting duals. I have to put forth effort not to type everyone I meet.

I don't think my dual is too good for me because LSEs are more productive than EIIs. My duals do tend to be boring. They're predictable, but so am I. They're just nice. Sometimes one comes along who's funny, too. That's not so boring.

Thanks Abbie. I'm beginning to see how you and I are a good fit. with you being 1w2 and me being 2w1

LOL we said the same thing that EII tend to be boring. I'm not that boring. I'll explain it to you. The reason why I might seem that way is because at first whatever the LSE say is filtered through morality, as in, "don't say things that are gruff, hurt people, cut relations, are immoral." Once the LSE realizes that what they say has to be said low key and make sure that it's clear to me that they are joking, I can really enjoy it, going so far as to joke back and have a good time. It's that initial stage and the public persona (needing to keep good appearances) that has me canning my duals jokes. I'm cautious about hurting people and cutting relations, so it's me, or my job, to keep the relations together. My duals can be very gruff sometimes.

[Suz]

Well I've had a striking experience with one guy who is most certainly a dual (SLI). My experience was that while i do find my dual very attractive, I actually didn't notice him until he MADE me notice him initially by extending his hand and saying "Hi, I'm [name]" and talking to me a few times. Because I liked the interaction, after that when we worked closely together, i did make it a point to see if he's around and thus did spot him.

However, now that we are at some distance again, at one point I coincidentally found myself in the presence of him and his group of friends, and even though this guy is constantly on my mind and I miss him so much, I didn't notice him -- it was his extravert friend that I spotted, and then realized he must be around there somewhere. And only then did i see him, blending in with the world.

It's really interesting the way this phenomenon works. They really are invisible!

[717495]

I'm getting better and better at spotting my dual among people I see in real life, but before I came to Socionics I already had a strong liking for certain famous delta STs (please dont use my avatar as an example, heh)--it's hard to say as I'm rather distanced and don't have a lot of real relationship experience.

I think before I cam to Socionics, I didn't really understand quadra differences that naturally, it was a background process; I kind of looked at most people equally, and more so potentially, for the most part.

[EyeSeeCold]

Well I've had a striking experience with one guy who is most certainly a dual (SLI). My experience was that while i do find my dual very attractive, I actually didn't notice him until he MADE me notice him initially by extending his hand and saying "Hi, I'm [name]" and talking to me a few times. Because I liked the interaction, after that when we worked closely together, i did make it a point to see if he's around and thus did spot him.

Of the SEEs I've known and befriended, 2 ingratiated themselves with me. It felt awkward and I kind of noticed in a detached way that they were interested. I just deliberately ignored the opportunity, for no other reason than that "it was whatever". I never saw them as objects of desire.

The other SEE, I actually felt compelled to speak to first, after noticing her amongst the crowd a couple times previously in the day. I guess it helped that she was highly attractive. It took a few tries before she saw me for me and not some random guy.

The last SEE, whom I never met, pretty much noticed me, but we never talked. Just "what if" glances.

And then there are male SEEs, which I am not sure of in the typings so I can't really speak on those. Not that duality can't be platonic.

[Suz]

The last SEE, whom I never met, pretty much noticed me, but we never talked. Just "what if" glances.

Had a lot of those with the SLI.

[discojoe]

I always notice EIEs pretty much right away, even before knowing about socionics.

Let me put it this way: If there are two attractive girls, and one of them is EIE, I'll aways notice the EIE "more" than the other, whether for good or ill.

[Absurd]

I do lose interest after few tries that didn't produce any tangible results. I don't give a flying toss after.

[Beautiful sky]

Because E types look at people's surface qualities and don't anticipate their depth and I types think that E types are too good for them especially ExSx types because they are sensors and very hearty character about them; this makes us N types feel kinda inferior, both in our looks, demeanor, whatever.

Activity, benefit, and mirror relations most commonly attract one another because they don't have anything to get used to as duality does.

[Clumsy]

So, in your experiences, are duals that are better suited for each other in the long run the ones that make less of an impression on each other at first glance?

I ask this because thus far, the dual subtypes that I've tended to notice right off the bat end up either intimidating me to the point where I feel like I can't be myself or irritating me really quickly. The ones that I tend to notice more over time, when I start to really look at someone that I might have glanced over originally, are the ones I actually feel more comfortable being myself around. They are the ones, in general, that are more warmly receptive to me being who I am. They react more in a way that I need in order to feel comfortable, whereas the others seem to put me on edge.

I know that I'm not mistyped. There is no other type that fits quite as well as IEI for me.

[Slacker]

The other question is whether you might be thinking some LSEs are SLEs. But I would think regardless of their type, if someone is irritating you, that isn't likely to get better over time. It seems like irritation gets worse the more you know someone. If you feel comfortable being around someone, that's a better sign. I was a bit confused by my husband (who is my dual) when we first met, but it was more that I thought he didn't like me - I had a hard time reading him. I was very comfortable with him right from the start though.

[Clumsy]

The other question is whether you might be thinking some LSEs are SLEs. But I would think regardless of their type, if someone is irritating you, that isn't likely to get better over time. It seems like irritation gets worse the more you know someone. If you feel comfortable being around someone, that's a better sign. I was a bit confused by my husband (who is my dual) when we first met, but it was more that I thought he didn't like me - I had a hard time reading him. I was very comfortable with him right from the start though.

I agree with you. I don't think it would change either (the irritation). The LSE typing is also a possibility I hadn't really considered yet, but that is a very good point. Are there any clear cut ways of telling an LSE apart from an SLE? I'm sure there are threads on it *runs off to search the forum*.

Did you notice a major difference in comfort level (or anything else for that matter) with your husband compared to other SLI's (assuming you have met other SLI's)?

[Creepy-Snaps]

BLAH BLAH BLAH, another boring relationship, being comfortable and happy and finding that 'perfect dual' thread.

You guys need to spend less time on the internet and start talking with people more.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Or if they do notice each other, they tend to think their Dual is too good for them or too boring. Why is this?

Have you experienced this?

You tend to be more consciously aware of your first 4 functions, and the latter 4 are more subconscious. So, especially when young, or if you've never had dual experience/interaction, you don't realize when someone is saying/doing/providing something you actually need.

With practice, and time, and knowledge, a lot of people become adept at recognizing their duals quickly. So no worries mate!

/thread

[EyeSeeCold]

Or if they do notice each other, they tend to think their Dual is too good for them or too boring. Why is this?

Have you experienced this?

I'd like to try again.

Note that when it comes to Accepting/Producing in the types' Ego, the Creative function is generally the one that stands out the most.

So now we have a hidden Base(), and a "demonstrative" Creative.

Wait, if the Creative is being demonstrated, why doesn't the Dual notice???

Well, first of all, guess who does notice? Your Beneficiary, and, likely, Activity partner.

Now, back to our Duals.

They don't consciously notice your natural ability because it perfectly lines up with their own psyche's expectations. Thus they don't see anything unusual going on. It's all natural.

However! If you openly demonstrate your Base, you will catch their attention. The Dual-Seeking functions are much more sensitive. This is why Beneficiaries perceive you so intensely.

[Slacker]

I agree with you. I don't think it would change either (the irritation). The LSE typing is also a possibility I hadn't really considered yet, but that is a very good point. Are there any clear cut ways of telling an LSE apart from an SLE? I'm sure there are threads on it *runs off to search the forum*.

Did you notice a major difference in comfort level (or anything else for that matter) with your husband compared to other SLI's (assuming you have met other SLI's)?

"How to tell an LSE from an SLE" is a somewhat common debate topic around here. If you want to start it up, I suggest a new thread about that in General Discussion. I'm guessing you'll get some responses.

I find myself to be pretty comfortable around SLIs in general. There might be things I don't like about them, but generally things not related to socionics. Like if someone is sexist and talks down to me because of that, that person won't be a friend regardless of type.

[Park]

"How to tell an LSE from an SLE" is a somewhat common debate topic around here. If you want to start it up, I suggest a new thread about that in General Discussion. I'm guessing you'll get some responses.

I find myself to be pretty comfortable around SLIs in general. There might be things I don't like about them, but generally things not related to socionics. Like if someone is sexist and talks down to me because of that, that person won't be a friend regardless of type.

Tell me how slacker dad noticed you, so I know which winning methods to employ. K thx.

[Slacker]

LOL I approached slacker dad, and it was his deep soft voice and his accent that initially attracted me and got me talking to him initially. But anyway I was the pursuer.

[Park]

it was his deep soft voice and his accent

I have those.

LOL I approached slacker dad

But anyway I was the pursuer.

I've been waiting all my life for an ENFp chick (or any chick for that matter) to approach me, but it ain't happening.

[krieger]

BS thread. duals do notice each other.

[Park]

BS thread. duals do notice each other.

[Exodus]

BS thread. duals do notice each other.

Yup

Although I will say that sometimes if people haven't had a lot of experience with good relationships, they won't know how to recognize them, or might even be attracted to bad relationships.

[Logos]

Yup

Although I will say that sometimes if people haven't had a lot of experience with good relationships, they won't know how to recognize them, or might even be attracted to bad relationships.

Duals may notice each other, but duals do not necessarily notice each other at once. It normally takes a while, since A) duals are sometimes found in different spheres of activity, and B) as EyeSeeCold mentions, duals sometimes fail to notice their duality, since the dual-experience can be so natural that the mutual benefit goes unnoticed. In my experience, it sometimes takes repeated exposure for some duals to pick up on their duality.

[FDG]

BS thread. duals do notice each other.

Yep. Case closed.

[Slacker]

Well that kind of happened with me, although "ignore" is too strong a word. So when I met my husband he was here visiting a friend who had studied abroad in his country. He was only here for a couple of weeks. We spent a pretty good amount of time together, but I wasn't sure he even really liked me because he seemed sullen to me, and I didn't think anything would come of it. But when he went back home, I did really miss him. And he must have really missed me too, because he started calling me a lot, and this was back when international calls cost a lot of money. And he came back, obviously.

[yellow82]

I think this is true. As an ESE I generally don't notice LII's in a positive light unless I have been around them for a long time, or, unless I get involved in a very long, engaging couple of conversations. . . if they don't get the chance to do that they just seem like any other person out there to me. . . or even worse, boring.

ESE's on the other hand. . . I met my first ESE guy the other day. Instant attraction. The sad thing is, the guy beside him, (one of the ESE's best friends) was an LII. . . but standing next to the ESE he seemed so. . . boring.

The sad thing is, I can identify an LII pretty quickly now. But, I just. am not. attracted. to them. . . instantly. Until I get to know them better they just are so, blah. It's like, a slow built up attraction. The fireworks never seem to just spout out in 2 seconds with an LII. . . it's lame.

I know I should be more attracted to the dual. But I'm. . . not.

[VILEvenezuelan]

The "BS" I was refering to was this:


How long did it take, in your experiences, for you to start noticing the value of being around your dual, or was it pretty instantaneous? This question is more for the Extroverts (in accordance with the quote above).

Four years to start noticing, five to get it enough to do something about it.

[eSDe]

"It is difficult to notice your Dual partner among all the other types and even easier to pass them by" if you don't know who are you looking for, and you don't have V.I. skill. ;>

[blackburry]

Of the few LIE's I've met...they've all kind of had to grow on me. Immediately intrigued, but it's like --ehhh... until I really get to know them more. And of course, as always, it's more about the individual.

[redbaron]

How long did it take, in your experiences, for you to start noticing the value of being around your dual, or was it pretty instantaneous? This question is more for the Extroverts (in accordance with the quote above).

Actually, I think my dual friend noticed me before I noticed him. I can remember a couple of specific times when he'd try to talk to me and I was thinking "why is he striking up a conversation? what do we possibly have in common? why would he want to know what *I* think?" lol I did see him as a bit too good for me and yet also possibly boring because I didn't realize the interests that we shared yet. But after a few years of casual regular interaction, we became valuable friends.

[Suz]

I have those.





I've been waiting all my life for an ENFp chick (or any chick for that matter) to approach me, but it ain't happening.

From what i understand, Slacker is a VERY OUTGOING IEE. Not all of us are like that.

One thing i've noticed with SLIs i've been interested in, is I'll cast out all these gestures of friendship, and the SLIs will just totally blow off those efforts. I suspect it might be because you guys are just so oblivious (or cautious about new friends?), but I usually take that as a rejection.

Maybe the challenge for you is to try to notice when someone new is trying to be friends with you. It could be an interested IEE!

[Suz]

"It is difficult to notice your Dual partner among all the other types and even easier to pass them by" if you don't know who are you looking for, and you don't have V.I. skill. ;>

I would say it does make it easier to see duals knowing what you're looking for and having some knowledge of VI, but I find that it's still easy to overlook them, especially in settings where you're not really interacting.

Another disappointing thing for me, sort of knowing what i'm looking for now, is that I'll identify a dual, but THEN WHAT? I'm like, here is a dual right here, and it would be great to become friends and get to know each other, but sometimes trying to make contact (or lack thereof) is frustrating.

[Park]

From what i understand, Slacker is a VERY OUTGOING IEE. Not all of us are like that.

One thing i've noticed with SLIs i've been interested in, is I'll cast out all these gestures of friendship, and the SLIs will just totally blow off those efforts. I suspect it might be because you guys are just so oblivious (or cautious about new friends?), but I usually take that as a rejection.

Maybe the challenge for you is to try to notice when someone new is trying to be friends with you. It could be an interested IEE!

LOL WA. No one is trying to be friends with me. I don't think I'm a very likable person. Or maybe I am just oblivious to such attempts, I don't know. I take things people say to me quite literally, so it's possible that I miss some things. I can be a terrible interpreter when it comes to communication in relationships and people have told me that I don't how to read between the lines. In general I suck at befriending people (in the regular, socially accepted ways), so sometimes it's easier to reject someone before I do something stupid or make a fool of myself. I usually can't tell if someone's trying to be friends though, unless they make it very obvious.

[redbaron]

LOL WA. No one is trying to be friends with me. I don't think I'm a very likable person. Or maybe I am just oblivious to such attempts, I don't know. I take things people say to me quite literally, so it's possible that I miss some things. I can be a terrible interpreter when it comes to communication in relationships and people have told me that I don't how to read between the lines. In general I suck at befriending people (in the regular, socially accepted ways), so sometimes it's easier to reject someone before I do something stupid or make a fool of myself. I usually can't tell if someone's trying to be friends though, unless they make it very obvious.

[Lobo]

I notice LSEs quite easily. It might be harder for them to notice me, since I tend to not really talk about "Fi stuff" at work or when I first get to know someone.

[Park]

Yeah, I pity myself too, sometimes.

[Clumsy]

Another disappointing thing for me, sort of knowing what i'm looking for now, is that I'll identify a dual, but THEN WHAT? I'm like, here is a dual right here, and it would be great to become friends and get to know each other, but sometimes trying to make contact (or lack thereof) is frustrating.

I know exactly what you mean! It's so frustrating. It sucks seeing that potential and feeling like you can't do much of anything about it. I've never been close to a dual and obviously everyone is different. I'm not sure where to even begin after the "hi"s and "how are you?"s, unless we're working on something together (which doesn't happen often) that would allow for further discussion. Then again I usually tend to suck at conversation in general so... that's probably why.

[Suz]

LOL WA. No one is trying to be friends with me. I don't think I'm a very likable person. Or maybe I am just oblivious to such attempts, I don't know. I take things people say to me quite literally, so it's possible that I miss some things. I can be a terrible interpreter when it comes to communication in relationships and people have told me that I don't how to read between the lines. In general I suck at befriending people (in the regular, socially accepted ways), so sometimes it's easier to reject someone before I do something stupid or make a fool of myself. I usually can't tell if someone's trying to be friends though, unless they make it very obvious.

It could be as subtle as her just asking you a whole lot of questions about random things, asking for advice on this, on that.

How obvious is obvious?

And yes, stop REJECTING!!! Get out of your comfort zone!

[Simon Ssmall]

I don't notice my duals and I'm not really occupying myself with doing so (noticing types). But if for whatever reason I feel inclined to get to know someone I just go ahead and do it in one way or another, directly or indirectly. Sometimes it fails but I don't see how things can happen any other way but trying? And to be honest, apart from a few awkward times (which obviously sucks) you usually get a normal response which you can use for further talk.

Although that I wouldn't do when there is no context for me talking. I try to respect other people space, as in if I don't know a person at all and there is nothing in common between us then chances that I will talk to you are slim because I don't really like bothering people. Things like nightclubs are usually not of interest for me due to that fact. However things like festivals, trips and similar are always a . Actually I don't remember a trip in which I wouldn't meet new acquaintances.

EDIT: Not to mention if a woman would approach me Id probably be uncomfortable for a lot of reasons which I mentioned on this board a few times. All of the women I ever dated I approached first.