Fe types and seriousness

[Exodus]

I'd like to address a certain misconception concerning types. It seems like many people expect types to be frivolous or exaggeratedly enthusiastic, using lots of exclamation marks and whatnot. Of course, this is often the case, but types can also be extremely serious -- in fact, much more serious than other types. In general types tend to have extreme moods, sometimes oscillating between extreme happiness and extreme sadness (yes, even ESEs).

[Creepy-male]

Was this even a misconception anywhere? I also think emotional intensity is NTR, but Fe types will tend to emphasize in thought and thus communication whatever is powerfully felt.

Also, in Irrationals, there's less a focus on Fe as being "following your heart", it's more a means to a social end, and for recuperation and rejuvenation.

[krieger]

ENFjs are like that. ESFjs mostly do have very brief periods of negative emotions if they ever have them at all.

I also think emotional intensity is NTR

Ohh god...

[Creepy-male]

Ohh god...

Oops sorry.

I meant Merry/Serious related. Or maybe that's not much better

[Exodus]

ENFjs are like that. ESFjs mostly do have very brief periods of negative emotions if they ever have them at all.

ESEs are less likely to express negative emotions, but it doesn't mean that they're not feeling them internally. On the whole I'd say you're right, but I do know ESEs that are/have been going through serious bouts of depression. I've been closer with other types in general, but they all seem to suffer from it now and then.

Was this even a misconception anywhere?

Um, I think so?

I also think emotional intensity is NTR,

Really???

Also, in Irrationals, there's less a focus on Fe as being "following your heart", it's more a means to a social end, and for recuperation and rejuvenation.

Agreed.

[Creepy-male]

Yeah. I think Fjs in general are very emotionally intense, irrespective of whether it's Fi or Fe base in action. This might just be because both the Fi bases I know are E6s, though.

[Exodus]

Yeah. I think Fjs in general are very emotionally intense, irrespective of whether it's Fi or Fe base in action. This might just be because both the Fi bases I know are E6s, though.

ok, but it's still type-related.

[Creepy-male]

Yeah, my brain is asleep. What I meant is that even if it's T/F related it's not Merry/Serious related.

[Trevor]

Where did this "misconceptions" come from? From Ricko-expatians?

[silverchris9]

Was this even a misconception anywhere? I also think emotional intensity is NTR, but Fe types will tend to emphasize in thought and thus communication whatever is powerfully felt.

hmm... intensity of emotion felt, peaks of emotion is completely NTR. Yes, even thinking types can experience intense emotion. Frequency of intense emotion is probably type related. And expressiveness of intense emotion is DEFINITELY type related, with EIEs leading the pack for expressing big emotions in a big way (especially "negative" ones, but what does that mean, anyway?)

Also, in Irrationals, there's less a focus on Fe as being "following your heart", it's more a means to a social end, and for recuperation and rejuvenation.

Bold I agree with. Underlined is more alpha SF than beta SF. Same sort of thing, relaxing, enjoying yourself, having a good time, but not necessarily "recuperation and rejuvenation." Maybe it serves those purposes, but only incidentally. Also, I find Fe is important for self-realization through self-expression.

ENFjs are like that. ESFjs mostly do have very brief periods of negative emotions if they ever have them at all.

...or maybe they just don't show you their negative emotions...? It's obvious that they feel negative emotions, even when they will sometimes put a happy face on it. Also, being FeSi, they tend to duck out of situations when they know they're going to be a mood downer, ime.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

ESEs are less likely to express negative emotions, but it doesn't mean that they're not feeling them internally.

ESFj will express all sorts of negative things privately to their own family, but to the outside world they know how to fake it to make it extremely well. IEIs, on contrast, will tell negative things to the outside world. In fact, IEIs are sort of the opposite. In private, IEIs usually want everybody to be light and get along better, and in public they want things to be more negative and 'real.'

This is why stereotypically, esfjs (workaholic, enneatype 3s that look like human doings) tend to sabotage their interpersonal relationships, and infps (lazy jobless enneatype 4 emos) tend to sabotage their external success.

You have to privately know an ESFj to know they are complainers. You have to privately know an INFp to know they are positive, uplifting people at heart.

[silverchris9]

ESFj will express all sorts of negative things privately to their own family, but to the outside world they know how to fake it to make it extremely well. IEIs, on contrast, will tell negative things to the outside world. In fact, IEIs are sort of the opposite. In private, IEIs usually want everybody to be light and get along better, and in public they want things to be more negative and 'real.'

This is why stereotypically, esfjs tend to sabotage their interpersonal relationships, and infps ('emos') tend to sabotage their external success.

You have to privately know an ESFj to know they are complainers. You have to privately know an INFp to know they are positive, uplifting people at heart.

not true. I mean, I might preach that people should be negative and real if I were a preacher, but since I'm not, I act light and get-along-y.

I know what you mean though. It's like there's different layers of public and private, and they're relative. Harold Bloom is very curmudgeonly in his completely public face, as in books and interviews, but if you're interviewing him at his house, he'll be super nice to you and invite you in for some tea while you wait or something. But then I think about how even though I'm really nice to people that I'm acquaintances with, or even friends (but not like best friends), at least on the family level, I don't want to have to fake nice (I mean, with kids that's one thing, but besides that), I want to drop pretense with the people I'm closest to. I mean, I want them to be happy, and sometimes I'll do cute things for them, I suppose. But not always. But on the other hand, that has to do with me being an adolescent and trying to get out of the phase of life that you spend trying to please your parents.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yeah. I was being very objective, how the rest of the world sees IEI. Like people who don't know you at all, you know?

IEIs are really internal, and to most of the world, we come across as debbie downer losers. That's just appearance though. If somebody thinks that means we're really like that, of course they're just being an uncouth bully. But IEIs tend to take for granted their own level of perception.

People who know us know that we are not like that lol.

So stereotypically, you have lots of scenarios with IEIs (and to a large extent intps as well) as other people thinking they are depressed when really they are more well-adjusted than any of their classmates.

[golden]

Bold I agree with. Underlined is more alpha SF than beta SF. Same sort of thing, relaxing, enjoying yourself, having a good time, but not necessarily "recuperation and rejuvenation." Maybe it serves those purposes, but only incidentally. Also, I find Fe is important for self-realization through self-expression.

Those were more or less my nascent thoughts on Gul's statements, and you articulated them v clearly ... the difference/s in Alpha v. Beta Fe, and what Fe means for me. I definitely experience Fe as (a) a way to connect with people, and in my work occasionally to inspire them; (b) a way to have fun, but not as "recuperation and rejuvenation"--it's more like exhilaration and joy and dynamism; and (c), most important, a means toward realizing more authentic selfhood.

Also, I can use Fe to, ahem, get my way, set my boundaries, and provide an example (for instance, to children) of the behavior I want to see reflected back to me. And as I've said before, for me, Fe has a plasticity that allows it to function as a way to learn new things, ideally when it's supported by some kind of tempering T.

As for the OP, I do think there may be a misconception afoot that expects Fe to be positive, sunny, and "whee." And I can certainly offer that. I tend to modulate my emotional expression as a matter of course. Sometimes this means that I'm very upbeat even if I don't feel totally great, and other times, when I can't muster something positive, I may come across as quite aloof. And the backlash from squelching emotions and overcontrolling them, if I do it too assiduously, is that the "negatives" get stockpiled and come out in the form of general depression and malaise, anger, upset. I recognize this a problem in myself and am making my way through a workbook on Dialectical Behavior Therapy in order to learn some healthier patterns for handling my turbulent and overpowering emotional world.

[Trevor]

ESFj will express all sorts of negative things privately to their own family, but to the outside world they know how to fake it to make it extremely well.

...

You have to privately know an ESFj to know they are complainers.

I agree with this. IXTp types hate this, IMO. I think it's Fe related.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

As for the OP, I do think there may be a misconception afoot that expects Fe to be positive, sunny, and "whee." And I can certainly offer that. I tend to modulate my emotional expression as a matter of course. Sometimes this means that I'm very upbeat even if I don't feel totally great, and other times, when I can't muster something positive, I may come across as quite aloof. And the backlash from squelching emotions and overcontrolling them, if I do it too assiduously, is that the "negatives" get stockpiled and come out in the form of general depression and malaise, anger, upset. I recognize this a problem in myself and am making my way through a workbook on Dialectical Behavior Therapy in order to learn some healthier patterns for handling my turbulent and overpowering emotional world.

You're also a woman. You probably have a lot of pressure on you to be 'emotional' at all times. So, I think there is also a lot of super ego pressure for women to act that way. Like Hitta was saying (even tho he was kinda trolling and being hitta), women just think about what other people think of them too much.

I don't know. Society still mistreats women when they aren't being emotional IMO. (and men when they are)

[golden]

You're also a woman. You probably have a lot of pressure on you to be 'emotional' at all times. So, I think there is also a lot of super ego pressure for women to act that way. Like Hitta was saying (even tho he was kinda trolling and being hitta), women just think about what other people think of them too much.

I don't know. Society still mistreats women when they aren't being emotional IMO. (and men when they are)

To some extent, yes, I agree with you. I often see this as a disservice to both men and women. Men seem to be disallowed in our culture to express their full emotionality and vulnerability; women end up (I see this in marriages) carrying the emotions for two or more people. That dynamic stunts individual growth and harms relationships.

I'd also say, though--and this relates back to the OP--that the kinds of emotions I believe are positively sanctioned for me to express do not run the gamut from positive to negative, sweet to sentimental to sarcastic to volcanic. There's a narrow band of what is "okay" to express, and I'm often outside it. So what I'm trying to do is find healthy ways to express what is seen as "negative" so it doesn't get bottled up as an inner poison.

[Slacker]

It's the poorly named Reinen dichotomy at work. You should all be merry all the time, and I should be serious all the time. Get with it! I'll work on the serious thing over here!

[Trevor]

It's Reinin. Not Reinen.

[Slacker]

It's Reinin. Not Reinen.

Whatever. I think I spell it differently every time.

[Trevor]

Whatever. I think I spell it differently every time.

Why? There is only one right spelling. Besides, Rick spells it right all the time.

[silverchris9]

As for the OP, I do think there may be a misconception afoot that expects Fe to be positive, sunny, and "whee." And I can certainly offer that. I tend to modulate my emotional expression as a matter of course. Sometimes this means that I'm very upbeat even if I don't feel totally great, and other times, when I can't muster something positive, I may come across as quite aloof. And the backlash from squelching emotions and overcontrolling them, if I do it too assiduously, is that the "negatives" get stockpiled and come out in the form of general depression and malaise, anger, upset. I recognize this a problem in myself and am making my way through a workbook on Dialectical Behavior Therapy in order to learn some healthier patterns for handling my turbulent and overpowering emotional world.

. I experience this too, although I don't consider my emotional world overpowering per se. I think art, particularly poetry, gives me a vehicle for using my own emotions so that I feel a measure of control---I am using emotions to learn something, to make sure that I am still alive to the world, but nevertheless, there is still an I in control of whatever emotional situation is happening. (I suppose that involves standing at a degree of remove from myself, though).

That said, I've also had a relatively trauma-free life. I could imagine that in other circumstances, pain from on situation could trigger pain from an earlier situation that might cause me to feel more emotionally out of control.

[Park]

I agree with this. IXTp types hate this, IMO. I think it's Fe related.

+1

Why? There is only one right spelling. Besides, Rick spells it right all the time.

[Exodus]

I'd also say, though--and this relates back to the OP--that the kinds of emotions I believe are positively sanctioned for me to express do not run the gamut from positive to negative, sweet to sentimental to sarcastic to volcanic. There's a narrow band of what is "okay" to express, and I'm often outside it. So what I'm trying to do is find healthy ways to express what is seen as "negative" so it doesn't get bottled up as an inner poison.

Yeah, I see.

It's the poorly named Reinen dichotomy at work. You should all be merry all the time, and I should be serious all the time. Get with it! I'll work on the serious thing over here!

lol.

[Creepy-male]

Well, "rejuvenation and recuperation" is purposely vague so as to be general enough to apply to either IEI/SLE or SEI/ILE. One of the things that I've read in descriptions scattered around is that IEIs bring some sort of meaning to SLEs, or somesuch? That sounds at least functionally similar to SEIs clowning around to flush out the system, so to speak, especially in the case of ILEs.

[pianosinger]

I'd like to address a certain misconception concerning types. It seems like many people expect types to be frivolous or exaggeratedly enthusiastic, using lots of exclamation marks and whatnot. Of course, this is often the case, but types can also be extremely serious -- in fact, much more serious than other types. In general types tend to have extreme moods, sometimes oscillating between extreme happiness and extreme sadness (yes, even ESEs).

Exclamation marks are for IEEs! And SEEs...Demonstrative Fe...

[Exodus]

For example, this song was probably written by an type: