The problem I think I have with Si-Base people

[pianosinger]

The Si-Base people I know all seem to be very good at making themselves comfortable wherever they may be, and whatever the circumstances. They will do everything they need to do-- and almost all of it subconsciously-- to ensure their own comfort.

The problem is, at least with some of them, that they fail to realize that not everyone is as good as they are at creating those comfortable, pleasant sensations, and they just think that everyone else must be as comfortable as they are. Also, being Ip temperament, they are not externally-focused or very energetic, so they probably will not being going to great lengths to keep their homes always well-kept and clean and aesthetically pleasing.

I think it was Gul who said a while back in another thread, that if he were having a guest stay over at his house, that he would put clean sheets on the bed, and "clear a path" through all the clutter.

And maybe it has more to do with my Te-HA than Si-DS, but that would not be enough for me. I would have a harder time sleeping soundly if I knew that the floor was so cluttered that I might not be able to find my way to the bathroom in the middle of the night without stepping or tripping on something.

I've already said this in another recent thread, but one issue I have had with my SLI father-in-law is that he keeps his home way too warm and I am never quite comfortable there. But he is comfortable, and that's all that matters to him, and he just assumes that everyone else is comfortable, too.

On the other hand, I do find the Creative Si style of ESj's to be quite pleasing.

[Slacker]

You know, visiting a creative Si person might be better, because yeah they'd keep their place better, but I wouldn't want to live long term with a creative Si person. I don't like the pace.

[pianosinger]

but I wouldn't want to live long term with a creative Si person. I don't like the pace.

True. Guess that's where the j/p conflict would happen, eh?

[Slacker]

I have an IEE friend who is married to an LSE, and they get along pretty well, but she does have trouble with clutter and it isn't like he follows around her picking up after her. He gets after her to pick up after herself. I think I'd be in charge of cleaning up regardless of who I was living with and I'd rather have a chill SLI to deal with. And he does help if I get behind on housework, but he really likes the house neat too. Probably got used to it living with his clean freak ESE mom for so long. She used to go to his apartment twice a week to clean and do laundry and make lunches for him to take to work. Like when he was in his mid 20s.

[marooned]

I don't understand how this is a problem. I really feel it's ones own responsibility to meet their own needs and it's very unfair/rude/imposing/inconsiderate to expect anyone else to (it's hard enough trying to meet one's own needs without having the burden of someone else's). This is how I often feel about it.

[pianosinger]

I don't understand how this is a problem. I really feel it's ones own responsibility to meet their own needs and it's very unfair/rude/imposing/inconsiderate to expect anyone else to (it's hard enough trying to meet one's own needs without having the burden of someone else's). This is how I often feel about it.

I have no problem taking care of my own comfort for the most part. But if I'm staying in someone else's home, I do expect that they will make some effort to make sure their place is clean and relatively tidy, and safe for their guests, and basically generally presentable and comfortable. And I do the same for guests in my home.

Just another difference between Introversion and Extroversion, I guess.

But, it shouldn't be my job to change the sheets in someone else's home, or to adjust someone else's thermostat because I'm too warm (not that I'd complain to them and make them do it, either, I'd just suffer in silence and remind myself to dress down next time), or to clean up messes that were already there when I arrived.

[Park]

She used to go to his apartment twice a week to clean and do laundry and make lunches for him to take to work. Like when he was in his mid 20s.

[The Ineffable]

Interesting manner to present the matter - possibly because when people think of Si types they think about practical matters. The problem I have with Si people is that they too quickly jump to conclusions - only SLIs less so, though it may be just the appearance, cause they're usually phlegmatic. But I find it rather funny, as usually you can explain anything to them. Assuming you act on time .

... but I wouldn't want to live long term with a creative Si person. I don't like the pace.

Yeah!

[Jonathan]

...Also, being Ip temperament, they are not externally-focused or very energetic, so they probably will not being going to great lengths to keep their homes always well-kept and clean and aesthetically pleasing....

I wonder how true this is. I thought base-Si people were supposed to be pretty good at this (?). Unlike base-Ni and -Ne types, I thought they don't have a big problem with the physical aspect of cleaning up, and they're not constantly following intuitions that would cause them to clutter things up with more jotted down notes, ideas and new projects and directions. Most base-Si people I've met tend to keep things relatively simple in comparison.

I'd be interested in other people's observations about this.

[Suz]

first of all i disagree with your understanding of the Si manifestation. Si-base people are supposed to have a finely tuned sense of what really is comfortable and what isn't. they also in theory (and ime so far) are supposed to be good at recognizing when someone's uncomfortable, just like Fi-base are supposed to be good at recognizing what the state of a relationship exists between people.


Secondly, I agree with you that Te is a function that contributes to neatness. SEI and SLI are two different beasts.

[Creepy-male]

The problem with my room and clutter is once I put something down it falls straight out of my awareness. I like things being neat and organised (Si+Ti? I have a weird thing for things being spatially organised in a regular and aesthetic fashion), I just tend to have a hard time remembering that junk is slowly piling up in my room

The problem with things like my bathroom and stuff is I just don't have the cleaning supplies for them. I always keep my parts of the kitchen spotless, because it's easier to just keep things manageable NOW rather than having to waste time and energy by procrastinating. I keep things clean by imagining how much I'm going to hate having to do it later rather than sooner [EDIT: A wise SLI once said that lazy people only make more work for themselves. A wise Gul then thought that, as in all things, it's good to take the path of minimal overall effort ]

I think cleanliness is more habit and upbringing that type-related. Attitudes to neatness can probably be linked with the IMs, though.

I really like cleaning. I'm weird like that. Worst case I find it neutral + tolerable/habitual (like doing the dishes).

[The Ineffable]

The problem with my room and clutter is once I put something down it falls straight out of my awareness. I like things being neat and organised (Si+Ti? I have a weird thing for things being spatially organised in a regular and aesthetic fashion), I just tend to have a hard time remembering that junk is slowly piling up in my room

The problem with things like my bathroom and stuff is I just don't have the cleaning supplies for them. I always keep my parts of the kitchen spotless, because it's easier to just keep things manageable NOW rather than having to waste time and energy by procrastinating. I keep things clean by imagining how much I'm going to hate having to do it later rather than sooner [EDIT: A wise SLI once said that lazy people only make more work for themselves. A wise Gul then thought that, as in all things, it's good to take the path of minimal overall effort ]

I think cleanliness is more habit and upbringing that type-related. Attitudes to neatness can probably be linked with the IMs, though.

I really like cleaning. I'm weird like that. Worst case I find it neutral + tolerable/habitual (like doing the dishes).

Good point for why you're ESE and NOT an SEI, *especially* the underlined.

FYI: all ESEs preach the same thing (at least to me), that avoiding procrastination is a matter of will or upbringing, that you can "get used to it", that "you feel better" always doing these "required" things first, blah-blah. SEIs are great procrastinators (if not the greatest in the entire Socion). Hmm let's see what's written on socionics.com at their pluses and minuses:

Your major problem is a lack of motivation and the ability to push yourself when it comes to work matters, especially where uninteresting yet essential tasks are involved.

You often get caught up with domestic duties. You try to keep everything in order, but from time to time you still manage to collect hoarded items that then pile up and suffocate you.

Oh wait, this sounds like your post in a nutshell, did you peep the site before posting?

[Creepy-male]

Lol, well, I've lived with an ESE before, and she kept everything ridiculously clean and was a proactive cleaner. I have nothing on her, not even close.

But seriously, every time I look at the dishes and feel like not doing it, I just remind myself of how much I even more don't feel like doing it when they're all crappy and nasty and gross and the food scraps and whatever else are all stuck to them making them a pain in the ass to clean... and I realise which one I want less and CLEAN THEM.

EDIT

Also it's cool. I got all my eye-rolling done while the thread was loading

[stray]

I, too, would have thought Si ego would have done a better job at it. People whom I think are Si kind of shake their heads with my own (lack of) attention here at least.

I don't have guests much so I don't think about that.

[Creepy-male]

Your problem is lacking a frame of reference. You need to stop jumping on ambiguous terms and going "Aha! That proves MY POINT WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! VINDICATION! "



It just shows your rather limiting bias. Just accept that you could be wrong and you'll be a happier person for it.

[The Ineffable]

Lol, well, I've lived with an ESE before, and she kept everything ridiculously clean and was a proactive cleaner. I have nothing on her, not even close.

Yup, an "ESE" typed the same manner you typed yourself. Good point

Your problem is lacking a frame of reference. You need to stop jumping on ambiguous terms and going "Aha! That proves MY POINT WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! VINDICATION! :MUAHA:"

It just shows your rather limiting bias. Just accept that you could be wrong and you'll be a happier person for it.

Vindication for what? I have no problem with you and also I think you're one of the best Alpha representatives, though rather than projecting intentions on me, you'd better address the facts which piled up against your "SEI" bogus self-typing. Not only dismissing SEI, but supporting ESE. No matter how we put it along the time, you always ended-up as ESE.
You actually seem to have a problem in being contradicted, otherwise you'd not deny so adamantly the sane contradictory arguments. Btw, are you still angry on that ILE who demonstrated that you're not SEI a month ago?

Get over it, you will feel a bit of uneasiness at first but the outcome is that you'll not be an stubborn ignorant anymore. Just imagine ignorance as some spots on your otherwise clean dishes.

PS: you can't call "bias" the proofs that come for themselves out of your posts, you're one of the few fortunate cases where the evidence doesn't even need interpretation .

[Beautiful sky]

I have an IEE friend who is married to an LSE, and they get along pretty well, but she does have trouble with clutter and it isn't like he follows around her picking up after her. He gets after her to pick up after herself. I think I'd be in charge of cleaning up regardless of who I was living with and I'd rather have a chill SLI to deal with. And he does help if I get behind on housework, but he really likes the house neat too. Probably got used to it living with his clean freak ESE mom for so long. She used to go to his apartment twice a week to clean and do laundry and make lunches for him to take to work. Like when he was in his mid 20s.

This is among the few things that my dual pair works for us, we both hate hate clutter and we both like things fairly clean, put away, and neat. I did say that LSE make or go after people to do what they want (authoritarian), didn't I? Well, I'll say it again. YES they do.

[Creepy-male]

Lol, you can't fairly accuse me of projection. I made a very simple observation: you jumped on an ambiguity in what I said and decided it was proof I'm ESE.

If you include other, actual ESEs, and compare me to them, I'm none of the things you falsely attributed to me.

Easy, right? I think you're the only person who thinks I'm remotely approaching an EJ and you're laughably unqualified and clearly incapable of open or fair thought, clear as your thinking may be.

So what it really boils down to is, both of us are sure we are right. As our positions disagree, both of us are sure the other is wrong. The thing is, I have support for my position... do you?

Also, it's completely unfair to say that time and time again I've popped up as ESE. You have talked to me in the past when I have been uncertain and unsure of my typing, and unable to adequately defend it. I am neither of those things now.

[stray]

This is among the few things that my dual pair works for us, we both hate hate clutter and we both like things fairly clean, put away, and neat. I did say that LSE make or go after people to do what they want (authoritarian), didn't I? Well, I'll say it again. YES they do.

I'm officially SEI. I'm too weird, sloppy, lazy.. and rock n roll for all of this.

[krieger]

Bolt....

[Beautiful sky]

I'm officially SEI. I'm too weird, sloppy, lazy.. and rock n roll for all of this.

It makes pretty good sense so far because I feel this magical attraction towards you and very comfortable around you, must be the benefit relations warmth I'm feeling. You're not rough and you're fairly gentle.

[Nowisthetime]

The problem I have with Si-Base people I know...

Isn't this just a matter of you being weak in this area and they strong? Aren't all types like this, that they assume that their natural style is something that everybody should be good at.

[Exodus]

I've already said this in another recent thread, but one issue I have had with my SLI father-in-law is that he keeps his home way too warm and I am never quite comfortable there. But he is comfortable, and that's all that matters to him, and he just assumes that everyone else is comfortable, too.

If he is SLI, I'm sure if you let him know he would be accommodating to your needs.

That being said, leading types usually have a pretty...idiosyncratic way of maintaining their environment. Many of them are kind of messy, actually.

Someone I know pointed out that my SLI roommate, despite being rather messy, is usually careful to fold his clothes up neatly before he puts them on the floor. So he's messy in a 'neat' way.

[Slacker]

Si is about a subjective kind of comfort. What one Si-base person finds comfortable, another might not. So neatness might make one comfortable but it might not be a priority for another. My husband likes things neat but it too lazy to do much of the work. I am not good at keeping things neat on my own, but somehow we manage to keep things up fairly well between us.

[redbaron]

yeah my SEI Dad doesn't care too much if stuff is in piles (especially if they're *his* piles, lol) and I know another SLI who keeps his entire family room a disaster, uses it as a work place for building bicycles (he's a bachelor). So it just depends on personal priorities. I like the laid back nature of SEI and SLI more than the ESE and LSE because of the Ej "this must be done now" attitude and "work before play" blah blah makes me crazy.

[The Ineffable]

...

I didn't reply you to argue about your type here and you're wrong if you imagine that I believe you can be convinced by reason. The only reason I post is to refute your polluting claims that "I am SEI" and "SEI does this and SEI does that like me". If you didn't notice I'm not doing this only to you, but anyone who spreads misguidance related to their self-typings allegedly being representative; it is not out of impulse, neither to prove a point, it's a premeditated and systematic activity to prevent these false claims become common sense, if repeated endlessly. I'm trying to counteract this as constant and sustained as possible - the less mistypings get established, the better.

I would not be so active in debunking your false SEI-ness if you were not so eager in showing it off as a correct exemplification - hence the richer evidence and the higher imperativeness for making other users - especially uninformed, newbies - aware of this fraud. It's neither about you, nor my ego, get over it.
---

Regarding your allusions that there are no other people who think you're not SEI: when I'll have the time, I'll find that thread where most people were against it and you freaked out at everyone. The main (if not only) argument of theirs was that you're an Extroverted type so it's impossible to be SEI - which I also relate to.

[Park]

I didn't reply you to argue about your type here and you're wrong if you imagine that I believe you can be convinced by reason. The only reason I post is to refute your polluting claims that "I am SEI" and "SEI does this and SEI does that like me". If you didn't notice I'm not doing this only to you, but anyone who spreads misguidance related to their self-typings allegedly being representative; it is not out of impulse, neither to prove a point, it's a premeditated and systematic activity to prevent these false claims become common sense, if repeated endlessly. I'm trying to counteract this as constant and sustained as possible - the less mistypings get established, the better.

I would not be so active in debunking your false SEI-ness if you were not so eager in showing it off as a correct exemplification - hence the richer evidence and the higher imperativeness for making other users - especially uninformed, newbies - aware of this fraud. It's neither about you, nor my ego, get over it.
---

Regarding your allusions that there are no other people who think you're not SEI: when I'll have the time, I'll find that thread where most people were against it and you freaked out at everyone. The main (if not only) argument of theirs was that you're an Extroverted type so it's impossible to be SEI - which I also relate to.

I am going to call you Complicator Complexer from now on.

[Creepy-male]

Then, Bolt, we can reach a very easy compromise. If I falsely attribute something to SEIs, you can call me out on it, without referring to the ULTIMATE UNDENIABLE FALSITUDITY OF MY TYPE, and we can have a nice productive discussion like the reasonable people that we are. Sound good?

There's really no need to constantly call people out on their type. You can call people out on misattributions to type without pissing everyone off.