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Thread: Control, order and self-reliance for INTjs

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    Default Control, order and self-reliance for INTjs

    =)

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    Default Re: INTj's self-reliance/control

    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    My INTj friend (he tests as that and INTJ) is more socialable than many I see on the net. He has a good family and some fruity friends to blame. But I can always tell whan he really lights up inside. He is by far my favorite person in the world to dicsuss things like plant genetics with. In some occurences he is even more socialable than I am. For example, I am not a huge fan of alcohol or loud people. It's not the extroversion component. I just feel "uggggh" around either in extreme situtations (and the behaviors that often follow). But this does not bother him. I asked him why one day. He said because he relies on himself for order and he is indifferent to the rest.
    Is the bolded part a common way of being for INTj's? That is a pretty fucking cool thing to have, especially for someone like me who is totally pwned by the moods of others.
    I despise alcohol and loud people. THey are unstable, and easily given to whims. I totally rely on myself for order and am indifferent to others - I just have my values and tolerences, and I don't put up with crowds or people I don't like. It's much easier for me to just spend time alone, and I'll rarely go through some sort of socializing event that I don't like unless there's something "worth it".

    It'snot that I'm afraid of loud people or alcohol, I just dislike interacting with those kinds of people. I entirely do not care if other people don't like that, or if it makes me "unfavorable" in the eyes of others.

    PS: I do generally stay away from very loud places, though - very sensative hearing.

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    Default Re: INTj's self-reliance/control

    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    My INTj friend (he tests as that and INTJ) is more socialable than many I see on the net. He has a good family and some fruity friends to blame. But I can always tell whan he really lights up inside. He is by far my favorite person in the world to dicsuss things like plant genetics with. In some occurences he is even more socialable than I am. For example, I am not a huge fan of alcohol or loud people. It's not the extroversion component. I just feel "uggggh" around either in extreme situtations (and the behaviors that often follow). But this does not bother him. I asked him why one day. He said because he relies on himself for order and he is indifferent to the rest.
    Is the bolded part a common way of being for INTj's? That is a pretty fucking cool thing to have, especially for someone like me who is totally pwned by the moods of others.
    It's true for me as well. I see most people that are like that as wasting their life and heading against a brick wall. I can be as loud as them without drinking any alchool, moreover.

    Agh, having your mood being dependant on the mood of others sounds horrible. How can you function that way? It's a rollercoaster.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: INTj's self-reliance/control

    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    My INTj friend (he tests as that and INTJ) is more socialable than many I see on the net. He has a good family and some fruity friends to blame. But I can always tell whan he really lights up inside. He is by far my favorite person in the world to dicsuss things like plant genetics with. In some occurences he is even more socialable than I am. For example, I am not a huge fan of alcohol or loud people. It's not the extroversion component. I just feel "uggggh" around either in extreme situtations (and the behaviors that often follow). But this does not bother him. I asked him why one day. He said because he relies on himself for order and he is indifferent to the rest.
    Is the bolded part a common way of being for INTj's? That is a pretty fucking cool thing to have, especially for someone like me who is totally pwned by the moods of others.
    my own moods are my own. other's will have moods but i'm rarily effected. mostly because i don't care what other's think. probably because i think for myself and come to my own conclusions. many don't want to think for themselves. people tell them what to think, what conclusions need to be met, and what to feel and when. it's drilled in when their young.

    i'm dis-attached from the others. i don't drink, i don't like alchohol or it's effects. i don't fall into peer pressure, i don't follow fads, i don't fall into a group or frankly anywhere.
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

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    the bolded section refers to two different things. to which do you refer?

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    I know this is half-topic (as per my usual) but someone explain to me the fun off getting drunk on a serial basis? It's fun every blue moon but I could not imagine it like say every Friday night. It's so... stressful. It makes me feel like shit Im not talking about the addiction or social aspect either. Im talking about why people would want to do i continually in the first place IF they are of healthy mind. I dont understand =/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    I know this is half-topic (as per my usual) but someone explain to me the fun off getting drunk on a serial basis? It's fun every blue moon but I could not imagine it like say every Friday night. It's so... stressful. It makes me feel like shit Im not talking about the addiction or social aspect either. Im talking about why people would want to do i continually in the first place IF they are of healthy mind. I dont understand =/
    i guess if the only way they found happiness was the feeling they got when they drank - then they would never get ill. they would use beer instead of milk on their wheaties in the morning. they would have to have it.

    just as everyone complains they aren't up or can't think without their coffee. the caffiene replaces something in the neural receptors in the brain. just like a drug, they have to to have it, nicotine , is another example sure it's bad, sure it rots their lungs - but they have to have it.

    other's need it for the calming effect. the alpha state they arrive in. i personally don't need that since i'm already in the state.

    and lastly some don't have the confidence the face the world as it is. they want to fit in. to be the life of the party, etc. so they drink the magic elixir and voila - party animal.

    unfortunally this will all have an effect on their brains. i know someone that developed siezures, and another that nearly killed someone while driving. their brains are melting - and they can't stop drinking.
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

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    (So you're an INTj again, Mike_INTJ, or are you just sitting in as an INTp or something? Your signature triggered my questioning)

    I know this is half-topic (as per my usual) but someone explain to me the fun off getting drunk on a serial basis? It's fun every blue moon but I could not imagine it like say every Friday night. It's so... stressful. It makes me feel like shit Razz Im not talking about the addiction or social aspect either. Im talking about why people would want to do i continually in the first place IF they are of healthy mind. I dont understand =/
    Heh, it's an easy way for me to keep distance or remove people from having some sort of influence over me. The more they demonstrate that sort of behaviour, the less possible our bond. I've gotten really tough about judging people's character -- and if I end up as some old lonely professor or quack, I don't really care. The one's worth my time rise to the top while others who aren't sink to the bottom. I'm not advocating this for everyone, but "it's how I roll, bitch".

    I'm kind of glad to hear someone else voice that concern, Jadae, to tell you the truth.

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    he means mbti intj. notice the J is capped and the p is lowercase

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    I only drink alcohol, socialize and indulge either when (silently) co-erced or when stressed and desperately in need of something to ease my mind or both.

    Growing up with an inferior has usally approximated with a lack of assertiveness to say "no" to certain things and then getting a sense of 'they need me, do i need you?' followed by guilt when left out though respected on other occassion for employing my free-will.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    (So you're an INTj again, Mike_INTJ, or are you just sitting in as an INTp or something? Your signature triggered my questioning)

    I know this is half-topic (as per my usual) but someone explain to me the fun off getting drunk on a serial basis? It's fun every blue moon but I could not imagine it like say every Friday night. It's so... stressful. It makes me feel like shit Razz Im not talking about the addiction or social aspect either. Im talking about why people would want to do i continually in the first place IF they are of healthy mind. I dont understand =/
    Heh, it's an easy way for me to keep distance or remove people from having some sort of influence over me. The more they demonstrate that sort of behaviour, the less possible our bond. I've gotten really tough about judging people's character -- and if I end up as some old lonely professor or quack, I don't really care. The one's worth my time rise to the top while others who aren't sink to the bottom. I'm not advocating this for everyone, but "it's how I roll, bitch".

    I'm kind of glad to hear someone else voice that concern, Jadae, to tell you the truth.
    i'm an INTj intuitive type. therefore i inherited the ability to function in this group if i wanted.
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    he means mbti intj. notice the J is capped and the p is lowercase
    for that last socion test:

    INTp logical subtype
    ENTj logical subtype
    ENTp intuitive subtype
    INTj intuitive subtype
    ENTj logical subtype
    INTp logical subtype


    Ethics vs Logic
    Sensing vs Intuition

    so i have a bit of each in me it seems. though i'm not sure why ENTj and INTp is repeated top and bottom.
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

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    Default Re: INTj's self-reliance/control

    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    My INTj friend (he tests as that and INTJ) is more socialable than many I see on the net. He has a good family and some fruity friends to blame. But I can always tell whan he really lights up inside. He is by far my favorite person in the world to dicsuss things like plant genetics with. In some occurences he is even more socialable than I am. For example, I am not a huge fan of alcohol or loud people. It's not the extroversion component. I just feel "uggggh" around either in extreme situtations (and the behaviors that often follow). But this does not bother him. I asked him why one day. He said because he relies on himself for order and he is indifferent to the rest.
    I like drinking and I really love people who drink and are loud. In fact, I enjoy being very loud myself and excessive. If I'm sober and I arrive at a place where everybody is out of control, it does not bother me at all, as long as they don't annoy me. I think it's funny!
    ENTj - intuitive subtype - 8w9, sp/sx

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    As far as loud places and drinking goes...I just don't see the point, and in addition I think alcohol is disgusting. (Of course, admitedly my one weakness is Tirimisu (rum) but I consider the very light use of alcohol in fine cooking an exception).

    The other major reason I don't go to bars is smoking. I firmly dislike drinking, but I abhor smoking. At least someone who is drinking alcohol isn't poisoning the air I'm breathing!

    Alas, somehow I still haven't quite worked out the coffee shop angle though. I am sincerely confused when I refuse to go out to bars when asked but when asking people to go to coffee shops their response is "But then I have to buy something" !?! Heaven forbid that people buy coffee/tea instead of alcohol, stimulants instead of depressants, and therefor have a chance of a coherent and/or insightful thought when socializing.

    I've concluded that social culture at University is messed up in more ways than one, but primarily that it has an extroverted bias. By this point (many years), it thoroughly irks me.
    Apollonian
    INTj
    "How absurd men are! They never use the liberties they have, they demand those they do not have. They have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.” - Soren Kierkegaard
    “Five senses; an incurably abstract intellect; a haphazardly selective memory; a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than a minority of them - never becoming conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?” - C. S. Lewis (INTJ)

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    INTj's of the world unite as far as a collective of health conscious folks seems concerned.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    INTj's of the world unite as far as a collective of health conscious folks seems concerned.
    What's this? A group that I wouldn't mind joining? "Sign me up"

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    I don't like much alcohol but I enjoy drinking one glass wine at some occasions in my favorite restaurant with my closest friends.

    When I feel (rarely) I start to be drunk, alcohol has generally an opposite effect on me. I'm trying to avoid to show others I'm becoming drunk. I will move less, talk less until I feel "better". It's like trying to retake the control of my natural distance with things and other people. Is it the same for you ?

    Some of my friends who think I'm shy (instead of introverted) often say I should drink more to relax, especially with girls (I'm single to death). For me, let myself losing control to be more "social" is just impossible.

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    Asking an introverted person to drink and act less shy seems to me to approximate with an extroverted person asked to wear a straight jacket, stand on centre stage in a large theatre and told to say a 5 minute monologue without struggling.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by s-castor
    For me, let myself losing control to be more "social" is just impossible.
    ...or dangerous. I am suddenly reminded of the part from Batman Begins where Bruce Wayne (pretending to be drunk) tells all his guests something to the effect of "All you superficial good for nothing so called 'friends' should take your pretense and leave...I'm not joking, party is over, go home." Of course, this was only to get all the innocent guests efficiently away from the ensueing fight, but still, I can imagine a drunk INTj venting like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    Asking an introverted person to drink and act less shy seems to me to approximate with an extroverted person asked to wear a straight jacket, stand on centre stage in a large theatre and told to say a 5 minute monologue without struggling.
    *LAUGH!!!* Oh, I would love to see that.
    Apollonian
    INTj
    "How absurd men are! They never use the liberties they have, they demand those they do not have. They have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.” - Soren Kierkegaard
    “Five senses; an incurably abstract intellect; a haphazardly selective memory; a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than a minority of them - never becoming conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?” - C. S. Lewis (INTJ)

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    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    My INTj friend (he tests as that and INTJ) is more socialable than many I see on the net. He has a good family and some fruity friends to blame. But I can always tell whan he really lights up inside. He is by far my favorite person in the world to dicsuss things like plant genetics with. In some occurences he is even more socialable than I am. For example, I am not a huge fan of alcohol or loud people. It's not the extroversion component. I just feel "uggggh" around either in extreme situtations (and the behaviors that often follow). But this does not bother him. I asked him why one day. He said because he relies on himself for order and he is indifferent to the rest.
    Is the bolded part a common way of being for INTj's? That is a pretty fucking cool thing to have, especially for someone like me who is totally pwned by the moods of others.
    i identify with the intj jadae knows. i love drinking, and i enjoy the taste of beer. www.duvelusa.com duvel is the best beer in the world. and i smoke occasionally, the buzz is good as i maintain a low tolerance for nicotine. as far as being around other people, i don't think about what they are feeling, etc. i just make jokes and enjoy being drunk.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    My mood is dependent upon the situation insofar that the situation imposes scenarios upon myself which I cannot manipulate to suit my needs. The INTj Jadae describes seems a bit confident, if not overconfident, in his ability to manage situations.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  22. #22
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    Getting drunk seems like too much of an indulgence, and also a personal "pleasure", nothing 'productive' really comes from it. I slack off enough on my own time (see: this post), I don't need to go any further than that.

    Oh, and as per MS's post - It has nothing to do with confidence (for me).

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    extreme situations don't bother me, its the loss of "rationality". anyhow anyone who knows me thinks I am very outgoing and friendly, and I think there is some truth to this. I can seem friendlier than my ENFp friend, for example. Im about as friendly as my INFp friend.. so we might say its just the Fe...

    I think its been written that people trust INTjs because they are mostly nonjudgmental and I think that's true for me. It's also true that i even like extremes because i feel I am getting more of an experience of humanity. These factors fit into an understanding of human emotions as not really related to him or herself, the logical observer.

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    I really dislike people with no self-control and I ussualy avoid them. And sometimes I really don't get them, I mean, It's totally up to me whether I'll have a beer or soda, whether I 'll get drunk or not, how can the beer own me ? It's the other way around! But I guess some people are just like that...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    I really dislike people with no self-control and I ussualy avoid them. And sometimes I really don't get them, I mean, It's totally up to me whether I'll have a beer or soda, whether I 'll get drunk or not, how can the beer own me ? It's the other way around! But I guess some people are just like that...
    Indeed, I agree. In a word: Habit.

    Most people don't understand the meta-narative of their lives. Instead of choosing how they will behave, they let their behavior inform their choices. I find that I have an uncanny knack for picking up on how my behavior effects my choices. I've honed it to the point where I am often aware of such insights in real-time. However, sometimes I can do little to change my behavior, even if I recognize it at the time! Everyone struggles with different habits, whether it is corny jokes, nervous ticks, or poor timing. The trick is: do you know how to change your habits over time?

    If you can change your habits conciously, that is self-control.
    Apollonian
    INTj
    "How absurd men are! They never use the liberties they have, they demand those they do not have. They have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.” - Soren Kierkegaard
    “Five senses; an incurably abstract intellect; a haphazardly selective memory; a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than a minority of them - never becoming conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?” - C. S. Lewis (INTJ)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian
    The trick is: do you know how to change your habits over time?
    (I know this is a retorical question but) I do. All it takes for me is to be willing. I have a hard time motivating myself sometimes but I tend to be very self-observant and it's very easy for me to control and change the minor defects I am aware off (and want to change). But then, I guess "will" is what all unstable people lack, too, so I kinda have a connecting point to them too
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    I really dislike people with no self-control and I ussualy avoid them. And sometimes I really don't get them, I mean, It's totally up to me whether I'll have a beer or soda, whether I 'll get drunk or not, how can the beer own me ? It's the other way around! But I guess some people are just like that...
    Indeed, I agree. In a word: Habit.

    Most people don't understand the meta-narative of their lives. Instead of choosing how they will behave, they let their behavior inform their choices. I find that I have an uncanny knack for picking up on how my behavior effects my choices. I've honed it to the point where I am often aware of such insights in real-time. However, sometimes I can do little to change my behavior, even if I recognize it at the time! Everyone struggles with different habits, whether it is corny jokes, nervous ticks, or poor timing. The trick is: do you know how to change your habits over time?

    If you can change your habits conciously, that is self-control.
    i can change mine - but the hard part is recognizing the cause, and then what effect it might have in the long run. right now i'm working on being more out going, and atleast appearing to be happy or personable. i have one guy fooled, he called me happy. and i'm now saying things that i normally would have held back. i even kept my mouth shut from a great setup my boss said the other day.

    i'm playing with colors in my clothes and measuring responses. but the hardest part is still seeing that your doing something, stuff you thought was ok, but other's found rude or something. if it's rude to them, i can rearange how i say something so it's more innocent. seems to be working so far.
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

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    The type everyone hates* though secretly wishes to be = LII?

    *in regard to a lack of concern for external short-term buzzes like "frivolous behaviour" and "binge drinking"
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  29. #29
    Creepy-pokeball

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    I like being myself TYVM But INTj is nice to spend time with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    I like being myself TYVM But INTj is nice to spend time with.
    what about INTp?
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

  31. #31
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Same. I have friends that identify with both. I find that theyre both good companions in life. They dont scold me for my ideas and they interact with them and vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian
    Quote Originally Posted by s-castor
    For me, let myself losing control to be more "social" is just impossible.
    ...or dangerous. I am suddenly reminded of the part from Batman Begins where Bruce Wayne (pretending to be drunk) tells all his guests something to the effect of "All you superficial good for nothing so called 'friends' should take your pretense and leave...I'm not joking, party is over, go home." Of course, this was only to get all the innocent guests efficiently away from the ensueing fight, but still, I can imagine a drunk INTj venting like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    Asking an introverted person to drink and act less shy seems to me to approximate with an extroverted person asked to wear a straight jacket, stand on centre stage in a large theatre and told to say a 5 minute monologue without struggling.
    *LAUGH!!!* Oh, I would love to see that.
    your sig (both quotes) sound intj and kind of relate to this topic.

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