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Thread: Krig the Viking & MegaDoomer, Te & Ti split from "Type changing"

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    Default Krig the Viking & MegaDoomer, Te & Ti [split from "Type changing"]

    Quote Originally Posted by incognito View Post
    Ah, funny. Exactly. I could have written this. That is why I'm considering INTj
    yes indeed, you are both the same type.

    INTp :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yes indeed, you are both the same type.

    INTp :-)
    I don't think I'm a perceiving type. I know, I considered ILI for a long time, but not anymore. At the moment, I'm quite confident about my self-typing.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by incognito View Post
    Yes, indeed, I think all three of us are the same time. I think you are INTj.
    Unfortunately I know I'm ILI-Te for more than 6 years now, dated the whole socion and saw each relationship work out with the typical socionics features. I've no reason to doubt my type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Nice. I've long suspected you were LII.
    Cool. I know that others did as well, or at least Alpha NT. But I can also understand those who see me as ILI, I was pretty convinced myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Unfortunately I know I'm ILI-Te for more than 6 years now, dated the whole socion and saw each relationship work out with the typical socionics features. I've no reason to doubt my type.
    If you made that experience, I congratulate you. As I said above, intertype relations are not that easy and clear for me. I suppose I had a crush on my conflictor some years ago which would explain why it didn't work well.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    FTR: MegaDoomer, Krig the Viking, Subterranean, etc are the same type, namely LII Ne
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Unfortunately I know I'm ILI-Te for more than 6 years now, dated the whole socion and saw each relationship work out with the typical socionics features. I've no reason to doubt my type.
    You forgot to say that you scored on a first date with an IEE
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by incognito View Post
    Oh, I know well your position on your type, and I recall your exchange with aixelsyd. My comment was just a fun poke, hence the lol smilie at the end of it.
    ah okay :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    FTR: MegaDoomer, Krig the Viking, Subterranean, etc are the same type, namely LII Ne
    Since you all seem so certain, I withdraw my typing of megadoomer. You alpha's have a new member.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I think megadoom is INTp. He just seems more cautious than the average INTj and doesn't seem to have these typical ideosyncratic ideas that INTjs always hold fast to.

    0.02c

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I never "get" how this happens. Personally I feel almost acutely repelled from any conflictor that I meet.
    Well, at least I think she is my conflictor, she might be some other type, too. However, it was mostly physical attraction imho. We were often misunderstanding each other and were prone to argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I think megadoom is INTp. He just seems more cautious than the average INTj and doesn't seem to have these typical ideosyncratic ideas that INTjs always hold fast to.

    0.02c
    In this regard, I have taken the Oldham types test and I scored as Conscientious (correlating wiht MBTI ISTJ) rather than Idiosyncratic (MBTI INTJ).
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post


    Nice. I've long suspected you were LII.
    Which I don't suspect he is because he never EVER analyzes in a compares/contrasts/matches/points out contradictions kind of way. I never observe any pattern making conclusions from him either, nor do I see him settle on things keeping things very open just like a P type.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-18-2011 at 03:57 PM.

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    ^ I agree

    I don't understand this "Live and let live" attitude toward's people's self-typings. It's not what type you think you are but what type you really are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Which I don't suspect he is because he never EVER analyzes in a compares/contrasts/matches/points out contradictions kind of way. I never observe any pattern making conclusions from him either, nor do I see him settle on things keeping things very open just like a P type.
    I might not demonstrate Ti all the time but if you think I'm ILI: where's the Ni then? Maybe it's because I don't fully understand the concept of Ni, but I can't really see it. Furthermore, I keep things always open if I can't totally narrow down something or don't fully understand the issue. I don't settle on something if I don't know every aspect of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It's not what type you think you are but what type you really are.
    Well, it's not that I changed from ILI to LII because I wanted to. I'm genuinely interested in typing myself correctly.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I might not demonstrate Ti all the time but if you think I'm ILI: where's the Ni then? Maybe it's because I don't fully understand the concept of Ni, but I can't really see it. Furthermore, I keep things always open if I can't totally narrow down something or don't fully understand the issue. I don't settle on something if I don't know every aspect of it.
    I typed myself ILI before I started to learn the information elements.

    When I learned about Ni I got confused. Never doubted my type, but just confused because I wasn't thinking about time all day. I don't see time. I don't experience time. Heck I'm even always late at work!

    What I do however, is daydream a lot. Have conversations in my mind with people, and know how they react. etc etc.

    Information elements aren't that important for typing yourself. They do more harm than help. It's even general consensus that you cannot see what your leading function is because it's to ordinary. So why try looking for it in yourself??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Information elements aren't that important for typing yourself. They do more harm than help. It's even general consensus that you cannot see what your leading function is because it's to ordinary. So why try looking for it in yourself??
    I just replied to Maritsas post. I don't know if one can identify their base function easily or not, but I don't think Ni is my base function.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    FTR: MegaDoomer, Krig the Viking, Subterranean, etc are the same type, namely LII Ne
    imho Krig could be ILI and Subt is EII.

    i could be wrong about Krig, i guess he could be LII, but to me he is very "literal" and dry, and he likes to expound upon facts and write descriptions, substantiating and clarifying various information. for example stuff like this thread, i see as Te. what Expat used to do for general socionics concepts, Krig does for DCNH. he doesn't seem to seek Fe either.

    Subt is too ethically-minded, i think his personal feelings and sentiments towards things and people come out very easily in his communication, even if he may not explicitly state them. it's something i see as Ethical, especially Fi.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    i could be wrong about Krig, i guess he could be LII, but to me he is very "literal" and dry, and he likes to expound upon facts and write descriptions, substantiating and clarifying various information. for example stuff like this thread, i see as Te. what Expat used to do for general socionics concepts, Krig does for DCNH. he doesn't seem to seek Fe either.
    I wouldn't say that I expound upon facts so much as I seek to correctly categorize information logically. Ti looks at the world and tries to sort it into static categories. Te looks at the world and tries to keep track of the changing states of the objects in it. Consequently, Ti is more focused on correct reasoning and precise definitions, while Te is more focused on empirical data and efficient actions.

    My posts tend to be purely theoretical and almost completely void of empirical data, which annoys actual Te types.

    I can see the similarities between Expat and myself, but since I haven't really tried to type Expat for myself, I don't really know what to make of that. I've wondered if he might be some kind of Ti type in the past, but haven't looked into it.

    As for my Fe-seeking -- I mostly post here when I'm in the mood for intellectual exercise. People here haven't really seen me in my sillier moods.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    As for my Fe-seeking -- I mostly post here when I'm in the mood for intellectual exercise. People here haven't really seen me in my sillier moods.
    This reminds me that I've noticed on this forum how hard it is for me to see Alpha NTs' Fe-valuing online. IRL, it's easy for me to connect with them around some very silly Fe.

    Krig may not be indulging in extensive antics here, but he seems lighthearted enough. The way he expresses himself in writing is not too different from an LII I know very well, who can be quite dry and serious in his writing and sometimes very playful in person.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I don't understand this "Live and let live" attitude toward's people's self-typings. It's not what type you think you are but what type you really are.
    I wouldn't say self-typings are irrelevant, though. It's generally a good idea to take them in account as strong arguments in their own right. To sum up the reasons for this:
    1. people tend to have a tremendous amount of information about themselves unlike anything you can gather about them from an outside perspective, let alone through the internet.
    2. the most basic claims of socionics aren't generally very difficult to understand. What's more, when people begin to study socionics longer they typically start delving into the more experimental side of the theory, which has the potential of confusing them more than improving their understanding. Hence, the argument that people that have more experience with the theory type better than people who are new is not a very strong one.
    3. people typically take what others say about them in account, so if you tell them casually what your impressions are, this information is included in their self-typing.
    4. the person him/herself is the one that has thought about their typing problem longer than anyone else.

    General recommendation: don't type people. Help people find their type.
    Last edited by krieger; 02-19-2011 at 06:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I might not demonstrate Ti all the time but if you think I'm ILI: where's the Ni then? Maybe it's because I don't fully understand the concept of Ni, but I can't really see it. Furthermore, I keep things always open if I can't totally narrow down something or don't fully understand the issue. I don't settle on something if I don't know every aspect of it.



    Well, it's not that I changed from ILI to LII because I wanted to. I'm genuinely interested in typing myself correctly.
    The Ni is where you said when people don't take time seriously that makes you upset. Ne time is very different from that very statement alone. Keeping things open is a product of perception.

    About my type...

    I never change it. I found out once and that's all it took.

    I knew these things about myself:

    1. I loved hunting for ideas so I had to have Ne in the ego block, because it was obsessive.
    2. I love people, relationships, human beings. I love and value close relations and care for them very much.

    3. I over-analyze everything.
    4. I can not exert massive amount of energy. My senses are terrible.

    5. I'm not organized. I can't organize things by color, shape, size, style, articles...pfff...no Te around. I'm not very practical, I'm very dreamy and creative.
    6. I love, love, love, Si environment of rest, pleasantries, relaxation, warm hugs, warm teas, staying indoors and sleeping in, eating pasta and eating very good for you, healthy food; my internal states get confused and I don't know what I need so I need to follow lead with Si and Te.

    7. I don't care about exact time. I care more about general time, Ne.
    8. I ignore my own feelings in concern for empathizing with other people, animals, environment.

    It's EASY to type yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    My posts tend to be purely theoretical and almost completely void of empirical data, which annoys actual Te types.
    you got that right, you freak!

    '-)

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    I never doubted that Krig is LII. That typing fits very well imho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The Ni is where you said when people don't take time seriously that makes you upset. Ne time is very different from that very statement alone. Keeping things open is a product of perception.
    No, I disagree. I get upset if people are late for appointments or similar things, but that's pretty understandable. I just don't like it if people are independable. And as I said, I keep things open if I'm not fully certain about something. This is my way to ensure I don't make any mistakes. And referring to time: I'm always over-punctual because I'm not good at estimating time and how long something takes.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I never doubted that Krig is LII. That typing fits very well imho.



    No, I disagree. I get upset if people are late for appointments or similar things, but that's pretty understandable. I just don't like it if people are independable. And as I said, I keep things open if I'm not fully certain about something. This is my way to ensure I don't make any mistakes. And referring to time: I'm always over-punctual because I'm not good at estimating time and how long something takes.
    You said this about yourself, not me. Second sentence, you're rationalizing why people could be late, that's trough a judgment function, not through perception of the qualities of time. AKA, you're being nice. Keeping things open again is a product of perception. Rationality doesn't work that way.

    So, my mom, ILI, is alway over punctual because she cares about real time and being responsible; she cares about it so much that she calls me several several times before my bills are due to remind them they are due at a certain day and time. That's how your Ni's work, like having a third eye (the subjective preference for time) on the events that have to happen by a certain time. Ni PoLR would have this in their conscious block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    i could be wrong about Krig, i guess he could be LII, but to me he is very "literal" and dry, and he likes to expound upon facts and write descriptions, substantiating and clarifying various information. for example stuff like this thread, i see as Te. what Expat used to do for general socionics concepts, Krig does for DCNH. he doesn't seem to seek Fe either.
    i've wondered if Krig might be a Te type for reasons like this and then dismissed my wonderings for reasons like the ones Krig gave...interesting, though.

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    @Maritsa:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion, LII, 8. Introverted Intuition
    The LII is a naturally cautious person, and never acts without considering the consequences in detail. This tendency sometimes prevents him from acting decisively—or at all. However, he tries not to be overly pessimistic about the consequences of others' actions, and only offers direct advice in this area if it is specifically requested. If something bad happens he is usually willing to forgive and move on without placing blame, re-establishing the course as subtly and smoothly as possible. While he tends to have very specific ideas about his general life principles and goals, he is basically indifferent as to their specific timeframe and implementation.
    I think this fits my use of Ni pretty well.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I wouldn't say that I expound upon facts so much as I seek to correctly categorize information logically. Ti looks at the world and tries to sort it into static categories. Te looks at the world and tries to keep track of the changing states of the objects in it. Consequently, Ti is more focused on correct reasoning and precise definitions, while Te is more focused on empirical data and efficient actions.

    My posts tend to be purely theoretical and almost completely void of empirical data, which annoys actual Te types.

    I can see the similarities between Expat and myself, but since I haven't really tried to type Expat for myself, I don't really know what to make of that. I've wondered if he might be some kind of Ti type in the past, but haven't looked into it.

    As for my Fe-seeking -- I mostly post here when I'm in the mood for intellectual exercise. People here haven't really seen me in my sillier moods.
    well your posts make me think that you are very concerned with empirical data. when you talk about socionics you do not actually focus on the theory, you elaborate on a given concept, give examples (including your real-life experiences) and are interested in hearing such information from others.

    also, i disagree that Ti is concerned with "precise definitions." it is Te that is concerned with objective data and information such as "precise definitions". Ti (esp. from Alpha NTs) will cut things down to the nitty-gritty, the absolute fundamentals, even to the point where it may be hard for someone who does not have enough background information to understand it, but Te will elaborate and clarify things to make sure the information being explained is "objectively" accurate and correct - which is what i see you do.

    i am not saying for sure you aren't LII, but based on your posts here i think there is good reason to think you might be a Te type instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    . . .

    General recommendation: don't type people. Help people find their type.
    Yes.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    well your posts make me think that you are very concerned with empirical data. when you talk about socionics you do not actually focus on the theory, you elaborate on a given concept, give examples (including your real-life experiences) and are interested in hearing such information from others.

    also, i disagree that Ti is concerned with "precise definitions." it is Te that is concerned with objective data and information such as "precise definitions". Ti (esp. from Alpha NTs) will cut things down to the nitty-gritty, the absolute fundamentals, even to the point where it may be hard for someone who does not have enough background information to understand it, but Te will elaborate and clarify things to make sure the information being explained is "objectively" accurate and correct - which is what i see you do.

    i am not saying for sure you aren't LII, but based on your posts here i think there is good reason to think you might be a Te type instead.
    Ah, I see. I think you have a common misunderstanding of the nature of Te. While Te is concerned with objective data, that's not its primary focus. Te is a dynamic element: explicit dynamics of objects. It keeps track of the way objects in the world change and move over time, and understands how to cause and influence that change. The stock market is a good example. Your stereotypical LIE uses Te to keep track of how companies are changing over time, making and losing money, and uses Ni to extrapolate from the past to predict the direction that change will head in the future. While Te is concerned with getting accurate objective data on the current and past states of the companies, its goal in doing so is to figure out how that data changes and how to influence that change. Te is about profit, productivity, efficiency, practicality -- actions. It seeks the best method for doing things -- spending a lot of time trying to figure out exactly how to precisely define a thing would be a waste of time to a Te type; all they want to know is how to use the information they have, not how to define and categorize it.

    On the other hand, Ti is a static element: explicit statics of fields. It seeks to understand the static, unchanging logical connections and categorizations of things. Data about constantly changing things (like the stock market) is uninteresting to a Ti type; they try to see through the constant changes in the world to the unchanging truths underneath. So a Ti type is more interested in things like philosophy, science -- something like socionics appeals to a Ti type, because the whole point is finding the unchanging commonalities underlying the seeming shifting chaos of the human mind. It's no coincidence it was developed by an ILE (Aushra). Ti is about categorization, precise definitions, logical frameworks, analysis -- sorting information into correct static logical systems. Understanding how to use information to accomplish some purpose is boring to a Ti type; they want to precisely and accurately sort information to arrive at a clearer understanding of the world.

    Stereotypically speaking, Alpha NTs are pure scientists (seeking unchanging truth), while Gamma NTs are engineers (seeking the best method for making changes in the world). Clearly, I am the former: I seek to understand how the human mind is structured; I have no interest in figuring out the best method of using that information.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    @Maritsa:



    I think this fits my use of Ni pretty well.
    You would use Ti whether you decided on LII or ILI; difference being is that you wouldn't use Te if you were LII; so, I see you using more Te than Ti; where is your example of Te ignoring? and how about Fe valuing...I never see you around when BIG emotions are being pulled and where are you in pulling some yourself, or showing that you need your emotions pulled? Where do you ask questions and analyze?

    Here you're pointing out empirical data to support your argument. You are relating to something but how do you apply it and where?

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    Speaking as someone with plenty of big emotions, I have not experienced Alpha NTs IRL as always enjoying them. The ones I know respond well to a certain side of what I offer emotionally. But not the whole thing, and certainly not drama and negativity etc.

    I assume this has something to do with the differences between Alpha and Beta Fe. But anyway, based on my RL experience, I would expect an Alpha NT not to get embroiled in forum threads where "big emotions" are being "pulled."

    I find a lot of what people are saying here about Alpha NTs a little odd, tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Speaking as someone with plenty of big emotions, I have not experienced Alpha NTs IRL as always enjoying them. The ones I know respond well to a certain side of what I offer emotionally. But not the whole thing, and certainly not drama and negativity etc.

    I assume this has something to do with the differences between Alpha and Beta Fe. But anyway, based on my RL experience, I would expect an Alpha NT not to get embroiled in forum threads where "big emotions" are being "pulled."

    I find a lot of what people are saying here about Alpha NTs a little odd, tbh.
    Well, wouldn't they like Fe atmosphere? We have that here. HavaLucid likes it.

    @MegaDomer

    You contradict yourself when you say that you keep things open yet have settled with INTj typing. That's my Ti role

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You would use Ti whether you decided on LII or ILI; difference being is that you wouldn't use Te if you were LII; so, I see you using more Te than Ti; where is your example of Te ignoring?
    Well, contrary to the wikisocion's statement about a LII's Te I'd say that I do keep track of my finances but otherwise, I think it also fits me pretty well. (Especially the sentences about 'aquiring skills based on interest instead of practicability) I don't know what I should reply to your claim you'd see more Te than Ti... it's your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    and how about Fe valuing...I never see you around when BIG emotions are being pulled and where are you in pulling some yourself, or showing that you need your emotions pulled? Where do you ask questions and analyze?
    As far as I know, LIIs aren't that expressive with emotion at all. And you might agree that emotional expression in a forum is not the same as irl. Your claim that I wouldn't ask enough questions or don't analyze enough looks a bit shallow to me. People of the same types may act differently, especially if one is older than the other. Anyway, this is not sufficient to rule out LII for me. At least in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You contradict yourself when you say that you keep things open yet have settled with INTj typing. That's my Ti role
    I don't understand why you put so much emphasis on this single statement. You should try to see the bigger picture there. I've 'settled' on INTj because I was switching pretty often which was caused by the lack of a 100% correlation of my personality and a socionics type. At some point, I realized there is no 100% correlations and that's why I settled on it because this seems to be the most reasonable explanation and the best fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Well, contrary to the wikisocion's statement about a LII's Te I'd say that I do keep track of my finances but otherwise, I think it also fits me pretty well. (Especially the sentences about 'aquiring skills based on interest instead of practicability) I don't know what I should reply to your claim you'd see more Te than Ti... it's your opinion.



    As far as I know, LIIs aren't that expressive with emotion at all. And you might agree that emotional expression in a forum is not the same as irl. Your claim that I wouldn't ask enough questions or don't analyze enough looks a bit shallow to me. People of the same types may act differently, especially if one is older than the other. Anyway, this is not sufficient to rule out LII for me. At least in my opinion.



    I don't understand why you put so much emphasis on this single statement. You should try to see the bigger picture there. I've 'settled' on INTj because I was switching pretty often which was caused by the lack of a 100% correlation of my personality and a socionics type. At some point, I realized there is no 100% correlations and that's why I settled on it because this seems to be the most reasonable explanation and the best fit.
    Please define your observation of what Te and Ti is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Please define your observation of what Te and Ti is.
    It's pointless. The mind can fool itself into thinking its doing what it thinks it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Please define your observation of what Te and Ti is.
    I think this leads nowhere. I probably have rather vague definitions of the IEs in my mind and I'd consult several sources if I need to think about them. Rehashing the knowledge posted in Wikisocion isn't necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It's pointless. The mind can fool itself into thinking its doing what it thinks it is.
    exactly what I was leading into. MegaDoomer don't go by descriptions of type, go by functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Ah, I see. I think you have a common misunderstanding of the nature of Te. . . .
    er no, i don't, but thanks

    i predicted that you might reply in this way - i figured that if you are a Te type you'd seek to correct my knowledge (which you did), and if you are a Ti type you'd try to further clarify your own viewpoint (which you didn't do.)

    also compare yourself to MegaDoomer in this thread, he doesn't try to correct Maritsa's knowledge when defending his self-typing to her. he just explains why he believes he's LII "according to my own understanding, i must be LII". you take a different approach: "according to the objective data, i must be LII."

    hah, this kind of thing makes me understand why Reinin calls Ti valuers Subjectivists, and Te valuers Objectivists...

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    Hm, yeah. Knowing the IM elements is essential to understanding and identifying one's type. Two people can express the same IMEs in a different manner, so it becomes important to look at more than just superficial behaviors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    also compare yourself to MegaDoomer in this thread, he doesn't try to correct Maritsa's knowledge when defending his self-typing to her. he just explains why he believes he's LII "according to my own understanding, i must be LII". you take a different approach: "according to the objective data, i must be LII."
    I know that you believe I'm LII. And since you question that Krig is LII as well, you use my posts as an example to show the difference between us. But Maritsa is telling me now that exactly the same posts imply that I'm not LII. That means either one or even both of you are wrong. Whatever I 'choose', the members of this forum will never fully agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I know that you believe I'm LII. And since you question that Krig is LII as well, you use my posts as an example to show the difference between us. But Maritsa is telling me now that exactly the same posts imply that I'm not LII. That means either one or even both of you are wrong. Whatever I 'choose', the members of this forum will never fully agree.
    i know. you don't have to agree with my opinions - it's not my goal to get everyone to think the same way. i agree that will never happen.

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