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Thread: the delta NFs and foul language

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    Default the delta NFs and foul language

    You don't really like it, especially the ladies, eh?


    I could write this in stereotypes but I wanted to talk about it in another thread. It's something I've noticed I can do fairly easily with beta NFs, including females. Male delta NFs can tolerate and even enjoy some trash talking, but a good chunk of the ladies noticeably find it unpleasant.

    I can think of a few who've been on this forum that have said so.
    Maybe it's also because I'm attracted to "prissy" girls who seem to have values like that. (One of my closest delta NF friends calls herself prissy sometimes).
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    Fuck you.

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    I have no problem with it unless it is used excessively which just seems dumb.
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    I use profanity in a casual way if you know what I mean. "It's hot as shit outside.." I'm not trying to be particularly profane about it.

    I guess I've always been uncomfortable with a lot of trash talking.. Unless I'm actually angry (and yes, I can do this ). That's another story. I've just never felt comfortable with playful trashtalk. It's not the kind of thing I like during good times.

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    moderate use of swearing is fine imo, cunts, although I don't like it when people swear in an aggresive manner cunts.
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    like i've mentioned before, i dont mind if other people casually swear to an extent (when intent is benign), but personally I refrain from utilizing foul language because my vocabulary is large enough such that my mind, lips, voice, and tongue have no need to produce such ugly, lewd words.
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    It doesn't bother me if other people use vulgar language, although I really don't. Well, except an occasional "shit" or "damnit" when I make a mistake. LOL. I would say it isn't my favorite thing to listen to, though.

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    ya, the stereotype thread would have been a great place for this. it fits perfectly alongside brownie making and martyrdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Fuck you.
    laughing my fucking ass off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    martyrdom.
    The more I read the stereotypes, the more I get this odd notion to start flogging myself. It's all self-fulfilling prophecy, y'see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Fuck you.
    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post

    laughing my fucking ass off.
    (LOL btw)


    But as Ryu said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Male delta NFs can tolerate and even enjoy some trash talking, but a good chunk of the ladies noticeably find it unpleasant.
    i.e. not ALL.
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    I can't say whether it's type-related or not. For me, my aversion to vulgarity and swearing comes from my upbringing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    i.e. not ALL.
    i understand, but thats not the point. i'm sure a "good chunk" of SLEs are opposed to vulgarity, as well. the thread is baseless, imo. frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i understand, but thats not the point. i'm sure a "good chunk" of SLEs are opposed to vulgarity, as well. the thread is baseless, imo. frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.
    I never thought ryu thought of delta NFs as stepford wives. In fact, i dont think ryu would want a "stepford wife".

    Oh and ime, betas enjoy foul language very much (this isn't about vulgarity). As do gammas. As per Ashton for example, he sees bad language as a mark of sincerity

    though i do agree with pianosinger in that upbringing does influence this to an extent. My mom (ESE) always looked down upon others swearing. however she herself does swear (in russian) when she gets mad or annoyed or hurt at someone (the swearing is mild though). Something i've never had the desire to emulate, tbh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I never thought ryu thought of delta NFs as stepford wives. In fact, i dont think ryu would want a "stepford wife".

    Oh and ime, betas enjoy foul language very much (this isn't about vulgarity). As do gammas. As per Ashton for example, he sees bad language as a mark of sincerity
    ok, then we have different insights into ryu's motivations (i'm sure he would say he doesn't want a stepford wife, even if his posting history tells a different story) and very different interpretations of how quadra values manifest. if you're satisfied with the stereotype of the submissive and "prissy" delta NF, then fine. i personally have a problem with it, and i'm especially bothered by it being perpetuated by someone who types LSE.

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    There is no such thing as MILD swearing in russian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    ok, then we have different insights into ryu's motivations (i'm sure he would say he doesn't want a stepford wife, even if his posting history tells a different story) and very different interpretations of how quadra values manifest. if you're satisfied with the stereotype of the submissive and "prissy" delta NF, then fine. i personally have a problem with it, and i'm especially bothered by it being perpetuated by someone who types LSE.
    I dont know, i've chatted quite extensively with Ryu over AIM and i didn't get the impression that he's looking for someone who is submissive at all. In fact, he shared with me some things that make it clear he actually doesn't like it when someone is acting submissive. Also, prissy =/= submissive. Prissy on the contrary is a descriptor of snobbishness, which wouldnt' be out of character for a member of an aristocratic quadra. I admit, i can come across a bit snobby/prissy to certain people, especially if they feel inferior to me (probably for good reason).

    I'm not really sure where you got the thoughts you expressed, but I dont think delta NFs represent submissiveness in the least, in fact ime we are the some of the least likely members of the socion to be ok with submissiveness (instant turn off to me). I never saw this stereotype as being a delta NF descriptor and i'm not sure where you got that association from. Instead, my stereotyping of submissiveness belongs to the "victim" types: IEI, ILI, EIE, LIE (the introverts> the extroverts). Of course my stereotype could be wrong, so please correct me, anyone, if so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    There is no such thing as MILD swearing in russian.
    LOL!!!

    Well my mom was criticizing a friend of hers for using really bad BAD BAD words in her presence, and was saying that even though she swears, she would never use such words.

    It's interesting the distinction between myself and her where I choose not to swear, but wont bother criticizing someone for swearing in my presence (not very bothered by it, and sometimes find it funny even), whereas she swears occasionally but is very vocal about voicing her disapproval of others swearing in her presence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I dont know, i've chatted quite extensively with Ryu over AIM and i didn't get the impression that he's looking for someone who is submissive at all. In fact, he shared with me some things that make it clear he actually doesn't like it when someone is acting submissive. Also, prissy =/= submissive. Prissy on the contrary is a descriptor of snobbishness, which wouldnt' be out of character for a member of an aristocratic quadra. I admit, i can come across a bit snobby/prissy to certain people, especially if they feel inferior to me (probably for good reason).

    I'm not really sure where you got the thoughts you expressed, but I dont think delta NFs represent submissiveness in the least, in fact ime we are the some of the least likely members of the socion to be ok with submissiveness (instant turn off to me). I never saw this stereotype as being a delta NF descriptor and i'm not sure where you got that association from. Instead, my stereotyping of submissiveness belongs to the "victim" types: IEI, ILI, EIE, LIE (the introverts> the extroverts). Of course my stereotype could be wrong, so please correct me, anyone, if so.
    the only thing i can concede here is that maybe i'd have a different impression of ryu if i knew him as well as you do. other than that, we seem to be on completely different pages and i'm not really sure where to start.

    um, as for swearing...i swear sometimes, as does almost everyone i know. i feel more comfortable in environments where i know it won't be frowned upon if i let a curse word slip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    the only thing i can concede here is that maybe i'd have a different impression of ryu if i knew him as well as you do. other than that, we seem to be on completely different pages and i'm not really sure where to start.
    yeah i'm not sure why or how that happened...

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh
    um, as for swearing...i swear sometimes, as does almost everyone i know. i feel more comfortable in environments where i know it won't be frowned upon if i let a curse word slip.
    LOL sounds like passing gas...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    LOL sounds like passing gas...
    lol, never. as a delta NF lady, there are certain bodily functions i am incapable of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    lol, never. as a delta NF lady, there are certain bodily functions i am incapable of.
    ditto!


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    Women I encountered whom are Delta NFs seem to dislike foul language, nevertheless they will see it as a sign of 'strength' when alone with their dual or with another Delta ST they're mating with. They don´t like it, unless they're very much into the person, then they'll see it as a dualizing factor which gives them grounding, especially the INFJ. The ENFP can curse a lot even in group settings if the cursing and foul language is tolerated by the group. I see ENFP females cursing a lot compared to INFJs.

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    For me, swearing is usually an expression of emotion, as opposed to something to just blithely throw around. I do swear, somewhat profusely when frustrated (good thing my stuff is inanimate, or it'd have a complex). I'm not a delicate flower that wilts when I hear profanity, and I don't need to be treated as such. I'm not really comfortable with some of the stronger profanity, which I tend to see as unnecessarily crude; and I generally find those who use it, especially frequently, to be distasteful and worth avoiding. The worst word I use is "fuck". It's recently come out of my mouth more often than I would like; I view it more as a special-occasion sort of word (think "Precision F-strike" from TV Tropes).

    Slightly related story: I recently shocked a co-worker by referring to a character as an insensitive bitch. At first, I thought the girl flipped out because of our "no-swearing policy"; turns out she just hadn't expected that term to come out of my mouth.
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    I don't like cursing, even though I do it when I'm frustrated at something. It seems like a cheap way of expressing yourself and trying to be "cool."

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i understand, but thats not the point. i'm sure a "good chunk" of SLEs are opposed to vulgarity, as well. the thread is baseless, imo. frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.
    Yeah, I'm not a female, but it is patronizing in an indirect way. Not sure what it has to do with his type though. From a distance, I can see that that other Te posters.. For example, DeAnte, had pretty well rounded perceptions and could make decent lists type of examples for Delta NFs (not that they were necessarily right.. but at least he tried). Same with Ashton. Same with INTps.

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    Show me those lists, for I love lists and live by the code of lists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    I don't like cursing, even though I do it when I'm frustrated at something. It seems like a cheap way of expressing yourself and trying to be "cool."
    well put.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Show me those lists, for I love lists and live by the code of lists.
    Not even sure if Ashton runs that socionix site (thought he did).

    http://gallery.socionix.com/Delta/

    I ran across DeAnte's list on wikisocion

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...r:DeAnte#Delta


    Now before somebody gets upset that some vulgar, ill mannered clown like Olivia Munn is ENFp (), all I'm saying is that at least those posters try. Try is a good thing. Better than being stuck in some boyhood fantasy of prissy housewives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    Now before somebody gets upset that some vulgar, ill mannered clown like Olivia Munn is ENFp (), all I'm saying is that at least those posters try. Try is a good thing. Better than being stuck in some boyhood fantasy of prissy housewives.
    Olivia Munn is not vulgar or ill-mannered
    Definitely ENFp though, no objections to that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Olivia Munn is not vulgar or ill-mannered
    Definitely ENFp though, no objections to that.
    Just a little tongue in cheek there. If she is ill-mannered, she's ill-mannered in a funny way. I'm not exactly like her myself, but this thing with Deltas NFs being martyr like, prissy people is beyond stupid. There's no other word for it. There's probably close to a billion Deltas in the world (if we were to believe there is such a thing as "Delta"). You don't need to be a T type to realize it's illogical and not even close to the realm of possibility that everyone could fall in place so closely with their behavior. Cognitive theory is not about behavior.

    Blah blah blah. It's probably all a joke on his part. Here's hoping at least.

    Anyways, Here's an example of "ill mannered" Olivia. link

    There is some part of your persona that is tough. And I mean, like, someone who seems like they’ve always had to fight. And it comes across in different ways. For one thing, you cuss a lot. And I wondered where that came from.

    It sounds better. Nothing says "bitch" like "bitch." "Cunt" is a great word. Underused and overanalyzed.

    You can see the defensiveness in other ways, too, though. Like there is a post on your blog after the Maxim cover shoot where you say, " If you have any problems with me in this spread, I have two things to say to you: 1. Just don’t look. And 2. You sound like you just need a good fuck."

    Because at that time I was in my last relationship [with "Star Trek" actor Chris Pine], and I was fed up with comments on the blogs, when girls I’d never met were like, she’s only dating him because he’s a movie star. And I really still believe that anybody who's sitting there judging my relationship does need to get the shit fucked out of them.

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    straytk! i am so glad you are seeing the same thing i am and i'm not just nuts, lol. i'm happy you're back posting because i've felt more normal when you're here.

    i was thinking about possible links between delta NFs and profanity and the only thing i could think of was this idea of Fi not wanting to offend. but for me, with my family and the environment around me, it would be considered somewhat offensive to almost everyone i know irl to wrinkle your nose every time the "f word" is used or to take a derisive attitude towards curse words. so assuming there *is* a link, my stance would still be alligned with it. the only other link i can think of is Se polr (edit- er, weak/unvalued Se since we're talking about both delta NFs), but eh...i can't bring myself to seriously entertain the idea of Se having anything to do with swear words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    straytk! i am so glad you are seeing the same thing i am and i'm not just nuts, lol. i'm happy you're back posting because i've felt more normal when you're here.

    i was thinking about possible links between delta NFs and profanity and the only thing i could think of was this idea of Fi not wanting to offend. but for me, with my family and the environment around me, it would be considered somewhat offensive to almost everyone i know irl to wrinkle your nose every time the "f word" is used or to take a derisive attitude towards curse words. so assuming there *is* a link, my stance would still be alligned with it. the only other link i can think of is Se polr, but eh...i can't bring myself to seriously entertain the idea of Se having anything to do with swear words.
    Thanks.. The only time I think I got like this was in my teens and took some religious ideals pretty seriously for awhile. I don't want to say I was putting on a front, but there was a tactful move on my part to cut off the profanity. I suppose I dropped it a bit due to environment, like you're saying. Maybe? I'd sense that people would take me too seriously, I guess. I don't want that at least. In addition to that, I remember a nun I met, who was about as serious as you can get as far religious beliefs go. Yet, she would still be very down to earth.. she'd actually say "shit" and things like that (never an F-bomb however.. haha). I think it opened my mind a bit that you could balance things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Warning: The opposite of a stereotype is (probably still) a stereotype.

    Proceed with caution.
    If we're to believe the opposite of Delta is kind of.. Beta, then I don't like many stereotypes associated with either. It seems like I've been fighting various "Delta" stereotypes all of my life (in terms of small minded traditionalism). Which could place me in the opposite spectrum. Except I'm not into the Beta schtick either. It's like on one end, I have to encounter some closet wifebeater. And then on the other, psychotic rapists. Great.

    About the only martyr IF types I like are the Joan of Arcs and MLK Jrs. People who had convictions about human dignity, but could stand up for them as well. And not be just self-sacrificing housewives or loopy, maudlin rape victims. It doesn't even matter to matter to me if they're EIE, EII, IEE, IEI.

  37. #37
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Nothing says "bitch" like "bitch."
    hahaha
    This is so going in my facebook quotes
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    It's pretty cool

  38. #38
    UDP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    (LOL btw)


    But as Ryu said:



    i.e. not ALL.

    What would the forum be if not for the people who get 'agitated' by stereotyping and then overly do something to prove it's not true?

    Surely delta NFs wouldn't do that.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    For me, swearing is usually an expression of emotion, as opposed to something to just blithely throw around. I do swear, somewhat profusely when frustrated (good thing my stuff is inanimate, or it'd have a complex). I'm not a delicate flower that wilts when I hear profanity, and I don't need to be treated as such. I'm not really comfortable with some of the stronger profanity, which I tend to see as unnecessarily crude; and I generally find those who use it, especially frequently, to be distasteful and worth avoiding. The worst word I use is "fuck". It's recently come out of my mouth more often than I would like; I view it more as a special-occasion sort of word (think "Precision F-strike" from TV Tropes).

    Slightly related story: I recently shocked a co-worker by referring to a character as an insensitive bitch. At first, I thought the girl flipped out because of our "no-swearing policy"; turns out she just hadn't expected that term to come out of my mouth.
    yes, same

    I don't have a tendency to drop the swear bombs in general conversations, but it comes out in random releases of frustrations.
    But in all fairness I do find it rather off-putting when people do seem to swear a lot for no apparent reason, it makes me think they're aggressive, lack confidence thus feel need to puff themselves up or just plain ignorant

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.
    I'm getting that impression as well. fwiw I think it's perfectly find if ryu has specific preferences and what not in what he expects from women, particularly Delta NF's females, but I'm very much put off by any suggestion that those tastes should be indicative of type

    on a personal note, I despise gender stereotypes only second to racial ones, they should die in a fire
    EII INFj
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  40. #40
    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Delta NF's can appreciate more or less everything in moderation, it's the extremes that are avoided and frowned upon. And Ryu quite often receives such responses to his threads so it does not surprise me that some people thought he thinks of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives .
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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