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Thread: Quadra and Age

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Default Quadra and Age

    To what extent do you personally identify with your quadra "age," that is:

    alpha-childhood
    beta-adolescence
    gamma-adulthood
    delta-retirement age


    Deltas, do you dream of being old enough to retire and just enjoy life simply?
    Alphas, do you think that the ideal life, or the part of life you treasure the most is childhood?
    Gammas, do you strive to be an adult, looking down on childish pursuits?

    I know that personally, I want to be a perpetual adolescent. I have serious issues with myself as a child, serious complaints, and yet I never really want to be old enough to be an adult. I can't even contemplate retiring to Florida, it's just outside of my field of vision (I'll be a poet until I die, certainly). Ideally, I'd be 17 forever (actually, really I'd be 17-23 forever. That's the generally right age to be a good world-changing adolescent. maybe extend it upwards to 25, but 30 is death).

    To what extent do people actually identify with their quadra ages, and to what extent are these things purely socially coded. That is, do we all want to be perpetual adolescents because that's what's represented on TV as good? Or is this an area of genuine beta cultural dominance, something that exalts beta attitudes at the expense of other quadra attitudes towards the "stages of life" (especially delta).

    Thoughts?
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Of course I don't want to feel like a boring, middle class standard adult. However, I might be like that (from an outside observer perspective) even if I don't want to. I wouldn't truly want to be an adolescent forever though, either, because I remember much of my adolescence as being rather boring. Probably the best time of my life has been between 18 and 21.
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    Silverchris, you know you really are a poet. You watch the ashes fall with rose tinted glasses.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    I think people see me as a child because of my carefree attitude.

    What I don't like about this is that "normal" people do not accept my "technical advice" in spite of my education.
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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    These traits can't be ascribed exclusively to any quadra or type. One's maturity in regard to realizing aspirations, in fulfilling responsibilities, or in coping with failures to accomplish either is individually determined.

    If you're in your 20s now it's unsurprising that you find the thought of old age and retirement alienating. Those are another two lifetimes away. Likewise reasonable is your attachment to what I assume is the comparatively free and easy recent past.

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    I'm often told that I'm young for my age, maybe youthful maybe immature, occasionally I'm told that I have a wisdom. I place this down to trying to see as much as possible, seeing things from other points of view and gaining experiences.

    I relate to the quadra description of old age as I believe that with experience comes wisdom about the self and about the world.

    Whilst I am happy being young, youthful and living life. I see that through my experiences now I am building towards a future where I'm in a position to release my full potential.

    I maybe see myself one day being an old man sitting on a hill offering sage advice.

    I read this yesterday and I found that whilst there were differences there were some parallels, enough to interest me anyway.

    http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html

    I see myself as having some aspects of young, mature and old souls - as if I am more mature in some areas than others.
    IEE-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Thoughts?
    I always liked this analogy because I think it captures the attitudes of the quadras quite well. It's probably obvious that everyone would rather want to stay young physically, but people have quite different goals in these phases of life. Children don't mind the necessities of life, they play and learn a lot. They mainly want to dream up funny and intersting things. The age of puberty and adolesence illustrates the attitude of many Betas, imho. black & white thinking, rebellion against the "system", ect. This is the 'younger' half of the socion and also the merry one. The adult age is about 'getting real', forgetting about the silly ideas and naive idealism of the past. The Gamma quadra resembles the ideals of the western societies. It's all about career, money and social status. And finally, Delta represents both seriousness and idealism, but in a rather passive way. Sometimes I think they simply want to lead a peaceful life without questionable Alpha experiments, groundbreaking Beta revolutions or greedy Gamma business.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    I forget that I'm a grown up sometimes. I definitely don't feel like I'm at retirement age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I forget that I'm a grown up sometimes. I definitely don't feel like I'm at retirement age.
    this.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    To what extent do you personally identify with your quadra "age," that is:

    gamma-adulthood


    Gammas, do you strive to be an adult, looking down on childish pursuits?


    To what extent do people actually identify with their quadra ages, and to what extent are these things purely socially coded. That is, do we all want to be perpetual adolescents because that's what's represented on TV as good? Or is this an area of genuine beta cultural dominance, something that exalts beta attitudes at the expense of other quadra attitudes towards the "stages of life" (especially delta).

    Thoughts?
    I've felt older than my peers since junior high, especially in senior high. I don't "strive" anything...I just am more mature than most everyone.

    Being youthful is great and I wouldn't trade it for any other period...if everyone was the same mental & physical age as me that wouldn't be any fun, right?

    That said, my favorite two periods are Adolescence and 50-70(Wise Old Man ).
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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Also, I put this is the wrong section. Will someone move it to general, por favor? This isn't a type-me thread.

    But also, Love and Death in the American Novel by Leslie Fielding argues that American literature has a mortal fear of growing up (exemplified by Huckleberry Finn). Is it alphas and betas overdetermining a cultural attitude, or a type irrelevant phenomenon of literature?
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Alphas, do you think that the ideal life, or the part of life you treasure the most is childhood?
    Yeah, I do not only remember and treasure my childhood a lot, I still feel like I will continue to live from that place; getting chased by bees, adding tail-lights to my skateboard, experimenting with paper airplanes, making a satellite dish to pick up cell phone signals, getting lost on purpose etc. I remember when I didn't like my youthfulness, not because I didn't like it, but because I know society generally as a whole has taught everyone to "grow up:" Pay your bills, stand up straight, be nice, get real, don't point at people, tuck in your shirt, do the right thing, send a postcard every year, don't be rude, get a house, get a golden retriever named Max, say please. Screw all of that. I just remembered before Socionics, I use to dread looking at pictures at myself because I looked like a big kid, but now I embrace it; the good, bad, pretty and ugly.

    Speaking of all of this, I was actually writing something about growing up for the fun of it:
    I'll take on responsibilities, but I'll never grow up. I'll discuss the past and the future, but I'll never grow up. I'll talk about mankind and life, but I'll never grow up. I'll have and take care of my family, but I'll never grow up. I'll be learn from the wise, but I'll never grow up. I'll grow old, but I'll never grow up. I'm an eternal child.
    All in all, personally I can be very naive from time to time but the way I see it, that gives me my curiosity. In other words, a child may not know how many cities there are in Greece, how the economic system works in Japan, the point to life or everything else, they're always open to learning. Their mind is open, and that's the way I see myself. I like to learn and I consider myself a sort of a student of life, with plenty of recess breaks, and field trips.

    P.S. I like the way the Alpha quadra can be explained with that phrase "for the fun of it" because that's pretty much the way I see things. Why not?

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I still feel like an eight-year-old infiltrating the grown-up world in a grown-up's body. Growing up would be boring!

    At the same time, I have always felt much more mature and responsible than 90% of my peers. So there's this odd duality within me, where I switch back and forth between the two mental "ages". In some ways, it's like I feel so old that I've come full circle and started appreciating the world in a childlike way again.

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Silverchris, you know you really are a poet. You watch the ashes fall with rose tinted glasses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    Speaking of all of this, I was actually writing something about growing up for the fun of it:

    I'll take on responsibilities, but I'll never grow up. I'll discuss the past and the future, but I'll never grow up. I'll talk about mankind and life, but I'll never grow up. I'll have and take care of my family, but I'll never grow up. I'll be learn from the wise, but I'll never grow up. I'll grow old, but I'll never grow up. I'm an eternal child.
    All in all, personally I can be very naive from time to time but the way I see it, that gives me my curiosity. In other words, a child may not know how many cities there are in Greece, how the economic system works in Japan, the point to life or everything else, they're always open to learning. Their mind is open, and that's the way I see myself. I like to learn and I consider myself a sort of a student of life, with plenty of recess breaks, and field trips.

    P.S. I like the way the Alpha quadra can be explained with that phrase "for the fun of it" because that's pretty much the way I see things. Why not?
    Well said!
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Silverchris, you know you really are a poet. You watch the ashes fall with rose tinted glasses.
    Did I do something particularly poetic? Regardless, that's a really pretty phrase, I think: "you watch the ashes fall with rose tinted glasses." The only problem is the first four words set up an expectation (in my head at least) for iambic pentameter... so... you watch the ashes fall with rosy eyes, perhaps. For you, the falling ash is tinted rose. Ergh. Something like that. It's fun to play with.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Being an adult sounds so comfortable and stable. Though I know it won't be the idealized dream I have of it, I can relate to having that mindset. I don't like being an emotional teenager that doesn't know how the rest of my life is going to play out, but I also don't want my life to already be over and to be uninvolved in the world like a senior citizen is. Retirement age doesn't seem all that bad though, as long as it's more of a continuation of adulthood as a pose to returning to childhood. For example, having steady productive hobbies and still being independent. I can't even comprehend wanting to be a young child forever. That's just silly!

    Also, I never really decided on a type, so it's possible that I'm not gamma after all.

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    Sometimes I get these weird, unjustified feelings that my life has completely passed me by and I haven't truly lived it. So I guess that would constitute an "old age" mentality lol.

    But seriously, I've always kinda felt "older" than people of my own age group. In most of the groups of friends I've had, I tend to be the youngest one of the bunch. I do like that quadra analogy because it is easy to see relationships between them on a conceptual level. I love the idea of being "old age" tbh, like it implies a sense of deserved wisdom and respect. It's like Deltas are the tree people who have learned the secrets of the world, who all others look to for guidance.

    lol I'm so full of myself
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I love the idea of being "old age" tbh, like it implies a sense of deserved wisdom and respect.
    And...


    Sponsored by the Delta Insurance Group™

    It's like Deltas are the tree people who have learned the secrets of the world, who all others look to for guidance.
    Talking to my SLI/ISTp mother is like that; almost having the aura as if she has been on the Titanic, fought WW2, been to the moon, learned from Ghandi, invented electricity, met the Pope, climbed Mt. Everest, lived with monks etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    At the same time, I have always felt much more mature and responsible than 90% of my peers. So there's this odd duality within me, where I switch back and forth between the two mental "ages".
    Hmm, this is maybe a 'LII thing'. I also recall some silly episodes I had in my early life, but also being called the 'reasonable one' in a group of teens. A teacher told me once she thought I was born as an adult since I questioned the content of a stage play we saw. Somehow contradicting.
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    I could see myself as a lazy and socially careless adult. I'm definitely more mature than most people I know. I'm not sure if this is type related though, seems like someones stupid idea once again that gained some popularity.

  20. #20
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I always liked this analogy because I think it captures the attitudes of the quadras quite well. It's probably obvious that everyone would rather want to stay young physically, but people have quite different goals in these phases of life. Children don't mind the necessities of life, they play and learn a lot. They mainly want to dream up funny and intersting things. The age of puberty and adolesence illustrates the attitude of many Betas, imho. black & white thinking, rebellion against the "system", ect. This is the 'younger' half of the socion and also the merry one. The adult age is about 'getting real', forgetting about the silly ideas and naive idealism of the past. The Gamma quadra resembles the ideals of the western societies. It's all about career, money and social status. And finally, Delta represents both seriousness and idealism, but in a rather passive way. Sometimes I think they simply want to lead a peaceful life without questionable Alpha experiments, groundbreaking Beta revolutions or greedy Gamma business.
    Yea I think that's a good analysis of the ages, but I would add, that the age analogy for quadras only really is an analogy. It's a way of better understanding the quadras, but isn't a root principle or definition. It's easy to get confused if you take it to far. It's not supposed to imply alphas are immature and deltas are mature and boring.

    I really like the interpretation Timeless did about alpha quadra, I would write something but that's pretty much what I think the analogy is trying to get at more or less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I forget that I'm a grown up sometimes. I definitely don't feel like I'm at retirement age.
    Yeah..

    Why do Ne types (Fi and Ti alike) all get the "infantile" romantic style, but yet that doesn't apply to the rest of life? I think there might be some Alpha bias inherent in Socionics, where they had to be the fun ones with more childlike curiosity. Hmm..

    If I wanted to identify with any elderly people, it'd still be someone with childlike qualities. In fact, I can't think of anyone more inspiring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    Yeah..

    Why do Ne types (Fi and Ti alike) all get the "infantile" romantic style, but yet that doesn't apply to the rest of life? I think there might be some Alpha bias inherent in Socionics, where they had to be the fun ones with more childlike curiosity. Hmm..

    If I wanted to identify with any elderly people, it'd still be someone with childlike qualities. In fact, I can't think of anyone more inspiring.
    Well... they say that in many ways old age is also a second childhood. I mean, if you're retired, you shed many of the responsibilities of working life, and are able to enjoy the world in a somewhat childlike manner. And it doesn't have to do so much with how physically old you feel...

    but yeah, I explored the possibility of bias coming in from the other direction, i.e., the emphasis on everybody being young is a result of alpha/beta impact on the media, leading deltas also to dislike the idea of being older because it is portrayed so negatively in this culture, in the same way that in a culture obsessed with elders (investing them with all the power, etc), alphas and betas might not identify with being younger, even thought that is their purely "natural" inclination.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Well... they say that in many ways old age is also a second childhood. I mean, if you're retired, you shed many of the responsibilities of working life, and are able to enjoy the world in a somewhat childlike manner. And it doesn't have to do so much with how physically old you feel...

    but yeah, I explored the possibility of bias coming in from the other direction, i.e., the emphasis on everybody being young is a result of alpha/beta impact on the media, leading deltas also to dislike the idea of being older because it is portrayed so negatively in this culture, in the same way that in a culture obsessed with elders (investing them with all the power, etc), alphas and betas might not identify with being younger, even thought that is their purely "natural" inclination.
    That's an interesting (and fair) point. Culture makes a big impact. It kind of reminds of something else I was thinking about (not related to this exactly), pertaining to the world that Socionics partly stemmed from: Soviet Russia. Weren't people getting, like, toilet paper rations there at one point? The whole thing sounds pretty rough. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be Se PoLR there. You don't want to risk much of anything then. That's probably for another thread though...

    Just thinking out loud here, but maybe I'm just exaggerating to myself on the childlike qualities I'd be comfortable around in an older person. If I had to choose, I'd probably enjoy the company of, say, Oracle from the Matrix movies. She's probably ENFp? She's kind of a mix of "old" and "childlike" that I had in mind. I'd stay away from the Architect. Whatever type he is.

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    I don't dislike the idea of being older. I AM older and there are a lot of good things about it. I just feel young, and forget how old I am even if people ask me. I definitely don't feel retirement age. I'm more infantile than mature by a very long shot, despite my age.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I don't dislike the idea of being older. I AM older and there are a lot of good things about it. I just feel young, and forget how old I am even if people ask me. I definitely don't feel retirement age. I'm more infantile than mature by a very long shot, despite my age.
    That's cool. I can relate to that (I mean, I forget how old I am, and I'm twenty, so by the time I'm forty or whatever, I will have forgotten that age exists as a concept.) I suppose the idea doesn't fit you then.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    Yeah..

    Why do Ne types (Fi and Ti alike) all get the "infantile" romantic style, but yet that doesn't apply to the rest of life? I think there might be some Alpha bias inherent in Socionics, where they had to be the fun ones with more childlike curiosity. Hmm..

    If I wanted to identify with any elderly people, it'd still be someone with childlike qualities. In fact, I can't think of anyone more inspiring.
    You just answered it yourself. >.< Infantile Romantic style. Not Infantile Life style.

    Either way:
    - Spiritual Caregiver / Physical Victim
    - Spiritual Infantile / Physical Aggressor
    - Spiritual Aggressor / Physical Infantile
    - Spiritual Victim / Physical Caregiver
    - Mental Aggressor / Emotional Infantile
    - Mental Victim / Emotional Caregiver
    - Mental Caregiver / Emotional Victim
    - Mental Infantile / Emotional Aggressor
    (i)NTFS

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    You just answered it yourself. >.< Infantile Romantic style. Not Infantile Life style.
    That doesn't make sense to me. Whether I was LII/EII, Ne would still be a creative. Why would there be such a stark difference? I don't know why Fi would mutate Ne into some completely different interaction style that comes off retiree-like (let alone the whole self-flagellation and martyr thing. So a fairly pitiful and scarred retiree to boot).

    Excuse me while I go do something else. I'm not going to bother trying to redefine Socionics. If it's that polarizing, then so be it. I have better things to do though.

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    Yeah, where did you get that from, EyeSeeCold? I'm not sure I buy that. "Spiritual aggressor?" What does that mean?

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    I have always been very immature compared to others in the social sense but mature in the "doing what needs to be done to have a better tomorrow" sense. I do feel I will be child-like for the rest of my life, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Yeah, where did you get that from, EyeSeeCold? I'm not sure I buy that. "Spiritual aggressor?" What does that mean?
    Spiritual Aggressor refers to the inclination to attack people's ideas and/or beliefs. All Ne Heavy types should have this inclination. A great example, as someone has posted a while ago, is Bill Hicks.



    Note: There are numerous other ideas and/or beliefs to attack than religion, so this isn't meant as a prototypical example.
    Last edited by Crispy; 02-19-2011 at 09:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    That doesn't make sense to me. Whether I was LII/EII, Ne would still be a creative. Why would there be such a stark difference? I don't know why Fi would mutate Ne into some completely different interaction style that comes off retiree-like (let alone the whole self-flagellation and martyr thing. So a fairly pitiful and scarred retiree to boot).
    Your not approaching this correctly to understand....

    IM elements deal with certain aspects of your life. Incompatible aspects become filtered into information that your Ego functions can understand. So of an LII/EII doesn't handle everything in their life...

    Excuse me while I go do something else. I'm not going to bother trying to redefine Socionics. If it's that polarizing, then so be it. I have better things to do though.
    Why bother doing anything if you don't care to do it right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Yeah, where did you get that from, EyeSeeCold? I'm not sure I buy that. "Spiritual aggressor?" What does that mean?
    1981slater. It makes sense...with the right perspective, of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    You just answered it yourself. >.< Infantile Romantic style. Not Infantile Life style.

    Either way:
    - Spiritual Caregiver / Physical Victim
    - Spiritual Infantile / Physical Aggressor
    - Spiritual Aggressor / Physical Infantile
    - Spiritual Victim / Physical Caregiver
    - Mental Aggressor / Emotional Infantile
    - Mental Victim / Emotional Caregiver
    - Mental Caregiver / Emotional Victim
    - Mental Infantile / Emotional Aggressor
    This is an interesting approach. Yeah, I can see it, especially w/ the T/F groupings. Those all fit very well irl for people I know and myself. The S/N ones are not always so obvious, but with thought, they also fit quite well. hm.

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    I can't even contemplate retiring to Florida,
    Hah, neither can I. Florida holds no appeal for me.

    As for retiring in general...well, I'm not afraid of growing old, I guess. And it will be nice someday to be able to "retire" and just focus on my own pursuits...but then, I'm already doing a lot of that right now. But then, I'm not "working" in the traditional sense right now either. When I am a senior, I want to take advantage of all the programs out there for seniors' continued education, taking classes at the community college that interest me; get more involved in community service; travel a bit; keep myself active and healthy.

    I have an SLI father-in-law who loves talking about his plans for retirement, what he would wish to do. Mostly, he'd spend almost all of his time outdoors, out on the boat fishing, or motorcycling across the country. He'd tinker in his garage. Maybe buy an old car and try to fix it up. Stuff like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    To what extent do people actually identify with their quadra ages, and to what extent are these things purely socially coded. That is, do we all want to be perpetual adolescents because that's what's represented on TV as good? Or is this an area of genuine beta cultural dominance, something that exalts beta attitudes at the expense of other quadra attitudes towards the "stages of life" (especially delta).

    Thoughts?
    Quadras are like Oracles. They live for as long as they want. They can be killed by outlying forces but otherwise they live until they decide to die.

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