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Thread: When Duals Fight

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    Default When Duals Fight

    What do they fight about?

    I think my BIL and his wife might be LIE/ESI Duals. Last night, we were over at their place for my nephew's birthday, and at one point my BIL was quite involved in an animated discussion with my FIL and my husband, and his wife wanted to get the party rolling, so she walked by and said to her husband, "okay, time to be a daddy now." My BIL took offense, and they had to go to the back room to argue it out for a few minutes.

    I also think my dad and mom might be LIE/ESI Duals. They particularly had some trouble around holidays, or doing anything traditional. Like at Christmas time, it was the tradition for us as a family to act out the Nativity story (and record it on video, every single year,). And various other holiday traditions. I believe all this was mostly driven by my mom. My dad would get all stressed about it, just wanting to hurry up and get it all over with. But we kids would be all over the place, or having side conversations, or whatever, and Dad would lose his cool. Then this would upset my mom, who felt that now the whole experience had been ruined. She'd be in tears, and my dad would get all pessimistic and critical. We somehow always managed to finally carry out whatever it was we were trying to do. But, no holiday ever went by without probably at least one fight.
    Last edited by pianosinger; 02-15-2011 at 09:29 PM.
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    Never really had a fight with my Dual.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Never really had a fight with my Dual.
    How long have you lived together?
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    My husband and I have had two real fights.

    1. Not long after we got married, my work wanted me to go to a seminar on a Saturday. They said it was not mandatory, but there was a lot of pressure. My husband was new to the US, and did not have work authorization yet so he basically spent all of his time at home waiting for me to get off work. He didn't want me to go, but he didn't express how strongly he didn't want me to go, and I was used to my parents whose attitude was that you do what your work wants no matter what, so I went. He was really upset and just up and took off, and it took me a while to find him, but once I found him we made up pretty quickly. I apologized and said if I knew how important it was to him, I wouldn't have gone.

    2. Not long ager our second daughter was born, my older daughter was invited to an Easter egg hunt. There were only a few people invited, just friends, and I was told not to talk about it with others because they couldn't accommodate more kids. Regardless of that, my husband invited his friend and the friend's son. I told him he had to call the friend back and un-invite him, which he was very angry about, but I couldn't show up with an extra kid after the discussion I'd had about this Easter egg hunt. He said it shouldn't matter whether there was another kid. He did call his friend, but he bad mouthed me to the friend, which sent me through the rough. We were angry with each other for maybe a couple of hours before he called the friend back and set things right and apologized to me and we were OK again.

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    lol we don't live together, so I guess that's why.

    Yesterday I asked him when/if we were going to ever start fighting, and he said "hopefully never, but if we do fight I know it's going to be because I did something wrong, not you."

    He gives me a lot of those famous "SLE lectures" but I don't ever take offense to those because they essentially help me become better. His ex wife (IEE) would often take offense to his pushy nature, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    My brother and SIL (IEI/SLE duals, married for 14 or 15 years, can't remember) don't ever have real fights, but they do hash out slightly differing opinions. My brother doesn't get along very well with her dad. She understands why, and sometimes they disagree about how to handle her family in general but he usually follows her lead unless he feels really strongly about something, and then she'll listen to him and cave. It's a nice back and forth way they have of negotiating life's curve balls. I've never EVER heard them raise their voices to each other or disagree for any long period of time--I'd call it "productive conversations".
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    Redbaron - it's possible you wouldn't know if they fought. No one in my family knows about our two fights. Only my husband's friend who was necessarily involved knows about the one fight. We like to present a united front or something.

    Ashton - we fight way way way less than other couples I know. Almost never - just those two times in 12 years. And there's nothing weird about it. It feels very normal.

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    Fights with my girlfriend:

    - when she was writing her bachelor thesis, she said she didn't want to go out for one month because she needed time to study. I thought it was stupid and useless for her future, plus demeaning towards me because she was placing academic achievment over her relationship with me. I don't exactly remember how the fight ended, although she did end up being more laid back about work-school.
    - i was drunk and treated her rather badly (i thought i was "joking" but, being drunk, i couldn't tell if it was too much or not) during a party. I don't remember much about the whole scene, but later I apologized and everything was fine.
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    There is one dual with whom it seems I'm always fighting or at least feeling stress. That's probably not typical, though. Also, I think something must have broken further back, gone wrong, which now affects everything.

    If my mother is indeed ESTj, which I believe she is, we have had our differences, if only in the context of the parent-child relationship. I remember one particularly difficult disagreement several years ago, one which tore at our whole family actually. My sister wanted to be in a relationship with a boy that most of the family disliked. We felt he was too controlling, for one, and showed signs of a potential abuser. But my mother really liked him, and that drove a wedge between us. (That situation is now resolved.)

    Most of the "fights" my mother and I have now tend to be only very short-lasting insignificant spats over temporary circumstances. And most of those have to do with her still trying to be an authority figure in my life. She's been a little slower than my Delta NF father in adapting to me being an adult. But those disagreements rarely last long. Usually it's really easy to get on the same page. And when we do disagree about something and can't find a way to agree, we usually sort of go, "Alright, you can do it your way" and then are there for each other to help clean up if it goes wrong. (Or just stay out of the way, if that works better, heh.)

    Other duals, where we've disagreed, haven't really been fights. A couple of times it sort of made us just drift apart, when it was of a philosophical nature. But generally we get along remarkably well, some might say boringly so. Differences happen, obviously, but are relatively easily resolved. It's relaxing to me.


    I believe that my sister's man is her dual. I have very little reason to think otherwise. The times when they've fought the most are when my sister was on meds that made her extra emotional. What usually happened is the ISTp would say or do something insensitive to my sister, she'd get mad but hold it in, and then get madder and madder. Sometimes she'd say something, but sometimes she'd just come home and cry. Sometimes (with my encouragement) she'd bring it up to him, sometimes she'd just let it go, knowing that she was just being extra emotional.



    I think when duals who know each other disagree, they may not always see the other's perspective perfectly, but there's enough trust there that it's a lot easier to say, "Ok, I still don't quite agree or see what you mean, but I'm ok trying it your way." The thing that I've observed is, the kinds of disagreements that duals tend to have are of the balancing kind, not the conflicting kind. As in, one person sees one side of an issue, the other sees another side - thus differences. But they both want the same kinds of things from the situation - thus agreement.

    For example, the latest disagreement I've seen them have was over how to dress for my cousin's wedding. My sister had started off telling him that he could dress how he wanted (since that's how she likes things), but then she learned that our aunt, the mother of the bride, very much wanted everyone to be dressed up. When my sister told him that he got upset and said he wasn't going to wear his suit (it's uncomfortable) and he doesn't have any slacks. A little bit of grumpiness ensued. My sister apologizes for the change, but insists it's important for the sake of keeping people happy. He compromises by saying maybe he can wear the pants from the suit, which my sister agreed would be fine. (Then at the wedding he shows up in the full suit and tie. He can be a softy, even if he doesn't always look it.)

    My sister was seeing the people side of things; he was seeing the comfort side of things. But they both want the same results which made it a lot easier for them to end up agreeing.
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    Minde, I just want to say LOL @ LSEs and character assessments! The LSEs I know have a notorious track record of wanting to see the good in people even if its not there. (Or grossly misjudging character to the positive side).

    The other thing I want to say is I really enjoyed reading the scenarios between your sister & her SLI!! Thanks so much for sharing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Minde, I just want to say LOL @ LSEs and character assessments! The LSEs I know have a notorious track record of wanting to see the good in people even if its not there. (Or grossly misjudging character to the positive side).
    Sometimes they can misjudge to the negative side, too, being overly suspicious. What's funny (in a sad way) is when they are too negative toward and mistrusting of people who actually mean them well. ISTps can be like that, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    The other thing I want to say is I really enjoyed reading the scenarios between your sister & her SLI!! Thanks so much for sharing!
    Haha, np. Hopefully I'll have a whole lot more to share. I like her choice in a man. Despite the reputation of being really stand-offish with people, he gets along with my family really well. And the two of them have been good for each other, imo. He's become more personable with people in general, and she's become more confident in herself and her opinions, which I interpret as them rubbing off on each other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    What do they fight about?
    Disagreements?


    Besides general practical matters I'd say when one dual observes the negative/ignored aspects of the other. They are brought to attention and they clash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Redbaron - it's possible you wouldn't know if they fought. No one in my family knows about our two fights. Only my husband's friend who was necessarily involved knows about the one fight. We like to present a united front or something.
    yeah, this could be true. They definitely present a united front. It's possible they may have had a fight (or many) that nobody knows about. As a couple, they're very private and "island-like". i.e. they don't need anyone outside of the two of them. They've never had kids and function as a unit, running a business together.
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    I would assume that the most popular disagreements happen when the dual unintentionally steps on sensitive areas related to your PoLR. I doubt all dual pairs fight over the same things, if we're talking only about socionics here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Never really had a fight with my Dual.
    I've never had a fight with my dual cousin either. I've known her for 32 years. We always have a lot of fun together, laugh and joke. She has a difficult time expressing her emotions so I'm happy that the Fi works with us. I've lived with her, age with her, etc. I love her...her Te, especially. I like it when she tells me what really happened as opposed to how I saw it and when she tells me what to do. I love it also when she takes my advice, which sets us as equals in many ways. LOL.

    When I have a disagreement about something (these are not about her), she will take the time to listen to me.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-16-2011 at 07:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    He gives me a lot of those famous "SLE lectures" but I don't ever take offense to those because they essentially help me become better.
    Lol I lecture sometimes too.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    My brother and SIL (IEI/SLE duals, married for 14 or 15 years, can't remember) don't ever have real fights, but they do hash out slightly differing opinions. My brother doesn't get along very well with her dad. She understands why, and sometimes they disagree about how to handle her family in general but he usually follows her lead unless he feels really strongly about something, and then she'll listen to him and cave. It's a nice back and forth way they have of negotiating life's curve balls. I've never EVER heard them raise their voices to each other or disagree for any long period of time--I'd call it "productive conversations".
    That's how I call any 'disagreements' with my IEI girlfriend. I can't really say they're arguments. It's very productive. And once we get through something, we never really fight about it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Yeah, I don't like people knowing if I have a fight w/ an SO. Feels wrong for some reason for anyone to know outside the two of us.
    For once I agree with Ashton!

    Nah seriously, it would feel weird to just explain all the fights I've had with my dual. Even though that's what this thread is aiming for, I'd be uncomfortable sharing the details. So I'm not.

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    I know a potential dual. We get on each other's nerves sometimes, and we may disagree, but we don't fight.
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    Duals, fight? Like a real argument? I've never fought with an LII. . . . ever.

    We may get upset with each other but we always ALWAYS talk to each other in a logical low-tone manner. We talk it out and the argument is usually over within an hour of when it started.

    However, ESFj's and I have even less then that. . . . we rarely even disagree. It's pretty amazing when you get around your Identical.

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    This thread should be titled, "When Duals Dual"

    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemon View Post
    This thread should be titled, "When Duals Dual Duel"

    lol
    Fix'd.
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    Back in Japan there was this one ISTp exchange student in my program who I never really got along with too well. He always seems weirdly distant from me, and sometimes he would act weirdly passive-aggressive towards me and I had no idea why. I just assumed that he had personal problems to deal with, but it just sucks that he had to take it out on me.
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    I get into fights with all EIEs. Fucking bitches. (Fuck off Maritsa)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Back in Japan there was this one ISTp exchange student in my program who I never really got along with too well. He always seems weirdly distant from me, and sometimes he would act weirdly passive-aggressive towards me and I had no idea why. I just assumed that he had personal problems to deal with, but it just sucks that he had to take it out on me.
    Did he go by the handle, "Cyclops?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I get into fights with all EIEs. Fucking bitches. (Fuck off Maritsa)
    Provided you aren't joking about all of this, do you think it is a Beta dynamic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Provided you aren't joking about all of this, do you think it is a Beta dynamic?
    I can only wildly speculate, but it's possible from an almost purely cosmetic sense.

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    Mmmm, if my partner and I never fight, something is absolutely R0ng. It would mean--and has meant--that I'm stuffing down all my feelings.

    I don't see a problem with other people knowing secondhand that my SO and I have had a fight, especially if it's just a relatively impartial person, like my best friend, his best friend, whatever. I wouldn't want to fight in front of anyone, though--not fair to force others to put up with that shit.

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    Yeah I think my EIE dad needs to get his feelings out through fighting sometimes too. This is probably different from one dual pair to another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I can only wildly speculate, but it's possible from an almost purely cosmetic sense.
    ????? Please elucidate.

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    The Aiss-labcoat universe collapses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I get into fights with all EIEs. Fucking bitches. (Fuck off Maritsa)
    You're just flaming Dj.

    You're just trying to "test" me and to see how I react and get some emotion out of me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    ????? Please elucidate.
    Well, I have a perception of the quadras that can be described as flavors, I guess. Colors, maybe. So I can see that sort of fiery red Betaness being related to the dual fighting bullshit.

    Like I said, it's wild speculation. Purely subjective.
    Last edited by discojoe; 02-21-2011 at 01:14 AM.

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    I'm not pouncing on you now. You're supposed to like me more. If you cared to get to know me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Mmmm, if my partner and I never fight, something is absolutely R0ng. It would mean--and has meant--that I'm stuffing down all my feelings.
    And ignoring the problem... I hate that.
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    If Socionics ever hits mainstream and if should the study ever gets own channel, the title will be a perfect for a show.

    When Duals Fight! at 9:00 PM EST Followed by Real Conflictor Confessions Season 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    If Socionics ever hits mainstream and if should the study ever gets own channel, the title will be a perfect for a show.

    When Duals Fight! at 9:00 PM EST Followed by Real Conflictor Confessions Season 3.
    lmao

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    My Dual is cheating on me with a Beneficiary!
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I get into fights with all EIEs. Fucking bitches. (Fuck off Maritsa)
    This reminds me of that 'feud' you had with sarinana. Same shit, different package

  37. #37
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    If you never fight with each other, then how are you going to have hot make-up sex? That just doesn't make any sense

    Lets see .... LII-ESE couple fought about having more children. She got pregnant and he didn't want her to keep the child, same with the second kid. Interestingly enough when they hit late 30s and he started focusing on his inferior Fe they made a third kid on his initiative. ILE-SEI couple fought mostly over money matters. ILE was an alcoholic and couldn't keep a stable job so money was a constant issue for them.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    My brother and SIL (IEI/SLE duals, married for 14 or 15 years, can't remember) don't ever have real fights, but they do hash out slightly differing opinions.

    I've never EVER heard them raise their voices to each other or disagree for any long period of time--I'd call it "productive conversations".
    That's pretty much what happens in my relationship. We disagree on whether he's being too possessive (not really socionics related - more to do with the circumstances of our getting together).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    I would assume that the most popular disagreements happen when the dual unintentionally steps on sensitive areas related to your PoLR.

    I can't imagine fighting with my dual over my PoLR. Our ineptitude with our PoLRs is kind of a joke between us, it's the HAs which get us upset. Generally, when we make each other feel bad about not being good at our HAs (usually inadvertent), we get irritable and argue over really little things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I can't imagine fighting with my dual over my PoLR. Our ineptitude with our PoLRs is kind of a joke between us, it's the HAs which get us upset. Generally, when we make each other feel bad about not being good at our HAs (usually inadvertent), we get irritable and argue over really little things.
    For me it's the other way around, heh. I'm receptive to comments about physical well-being and comfort, living the moment. The whole Si-creative babying things like "it's cold are you sure you don't need a sweater?.. are you sure??" I don't really get that much bothered by, or play it off rather easily. However, I kinda cringe when I'm being criticized on being impulsive and being told that I was too harsh or too passive in a given situation. There's an LSE at work who is very impulsive, and what makes me avoid an argument about it with him is that I'm not confident enough to point out that being impulsive won't work in those situations because I'm not sure if it's true or not... There's this tension where I'm just about to snap.

    Also, I've gotten into arguments related to Ni-polr before with XSEs... At times it makes me want to pull my hairs out when they are not self-aware about themselves and their behavior, a certain hardheadedness that I've found with those types, and so I have to be really patient and focus in delivering a concise explanation without losing my cool. What's funny though is that what ends up making them change their perspective is when I finally do end up losing my patience and get angry, lol.

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