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Thread: DCNH and Distinctions between Si and Ni Harmonizing

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Default DCNH and Distinctions between Si and Ni Harmonizing

    I've been discussing with a friend of mine (he posts here sometimes as Currere) some issues related to DCNH and personas, drawing some parallels with Enneagram and general life experience. I thought I'd share some of the ideas we've come up with.

    The Harmonizing subtype (the IP persona types -- I prefer Gulenko's term "persona type" over the one he uses more commonly, "energy type") is all about creating and maintaining harmony, balance, and peace. Ni-Harmonizing and Si-Harmonizing do this in opposite ways: Ni-Harmonizing feels incapable of creating harmony in the external world, and so detaches from the world in order to create and preserve harmony internally, within the self. Si-Harmonizing does feel capable of creating harmony in the external world, but at the expense of maintaining harmony internally: it detaches from the self to create and preserve harmony in its interactions with others.

    Si-Harmonizers become chameleons, changing themselves to become whatever is needed to maintain harmony and avoid conflict and pain in the surrounding world. They can outwardly seem quite engaged, but "going with the flow" to this degree comes at the expense of "losing one's self" -- they become quite out of touch with who they really are, what they really want, etc. They need an Ne-Creative to see through the external reality to the potential underneath, to cause them to confront their true selves.

    Ni-Harmonizers, by contrast, withdraw into themselves whenever the external world is not in harmony. They live in their imaginations, in an unreal world of ideas, safe from the chaos of the outer world in the cocoon of their minds. They appear detached and somewhat otherworldly, disconnected from the normal concerns of others. They need an Se-Creative to show them the world in a new light, and cause them to confront external reality.

    That's the main insight we've had. We were also starting on Creative subtypes (EP persona types). I would say that Ne-Creative abstracts from the physical world to create lofty new ideas, whereas Se-Creative takes hold of the physical world and rearranges it in creative new ways.

    The above thoughts are based largely upon our observations of an Ne-C-LII, an Ni-H-LII, an Si-H-ILE, and an Si-H-ESE. I don't pretend it's a finished theory, just sort of a work in progress as we try to figure out how these ideas work out in Real Life.
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    I identify very strongly with Ni-H; but I'm not -Creative.
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    I thought I was more of an Ni-H but after reading this, I think I'm more of an Si-H. I do see myself in both descriptions though.

    I'll survey the forum:

    Do you see me as more Si-H, Ni-H, or some subtype other than H?
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    I kind of can see myself in both C-subs, since it's really restrictively contextual.

    I suppose under a system of 16 subtypes, I'd be a Ne-SEI, by virtue of being somewhere between IEE and ILE-like (somewhere between sage observer of relationships and the poster child of energetic dorkiness).

    How would you say 8-subs would interact with the existing 3 dichtomies for 4-subs? By your descriptions,

    Connecting subtypes immerse themselves in some world (due to the cognitive nature of Dynamic types).
    -Ni-connecting immerses itself in an imaginary world
    -Si-connecting immerses itself in the real world

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    grade A stuff Krig
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Trevor View Post
    30/05/2011 00:20 <Director Trevor> OMG
    30/05/2011 00:20 <Director Trevor> i just took gulenko's FAP test
    30/05/2011 00:20 <Director Trevor> the test that is supposed to aid you in determining your DCNH subtype
    30/05/2011 00:21 <Director Trevor> i got these results
    30/05/2011 00:21 <Director Trevor> Te 3, Fe 3, Se 3, Ne 7, Ti 5, Fi 4, Si 9, Ni 8
    30/05/2011 00:22 <Director Trevor> the test classifies me as Harmonizing subtype of some type
    Aren't you gonna post the link?
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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    test
    Ah, I didn't even catch that. I must be losing my "touch".

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Trevor View Post
    Gracias Senor.
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    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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    Oh yeah, you need to register.

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    Krig I like these descriptions of Si and Ni EM types w/harmonizing subtype, and I think you'll come around to dual-type theory sooner or later. I'll be waiting.

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    Si vs Ni persona subtype seems to match conceptually with Fast and Slow E9s (respectively).

    http://socionics.ws/wiki/index.php?title=Slow_nine

    What's really curious is that the Fast Nines have a sensor-like thinking style (details to big picture), while Slow Nines have an intuitor-like thinking style (big picture to details).
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    My FAP results:

    P 3
    E 4
    F 3
    I 11
    L 3
    R 12
    S 9
    T 13


    P (Te?)
    Low efficiency in business, lack of entrepreneurship and competitiveness, rapid exhaustion at work, no passion and will to win.
    E (Fe?)
    Moderate sociability, hospitality formal, superficial sense, the standard greeting and a joke.
    F (Se?)
    Helpless against aggression, weak or fading instincts, hard to defend their interests, low fighting qualities.
    I (Ne?)
    Calculated risk, innovation, as appropriate, bold and unexpected tactical decisions, improvement and rationalization.
    L (Ti?)
    Disorganization, the unwillingness to reckon with the rules, restlessness, disorder, nesobrannost, it is difficult to rely on.
    R (Fi?)
    Ability to build relationships, smoothing conflicts, it turns out to be a mediator between the opponents, livable, warm and friendly ties.
    S (Si?)
    Creating the necessary facilities, subject caring for loved ones, making good-quality things, the choice of quality products, neat appearance, does not trigger the disease.
    T (Ni?)
    Immersion into the inner world of images and paintings of fantasy, prone to depression or trance states, withdrawal from reality, foresight or anticipation, expectation of change.
    By the OP, I'd be Ni-H >> Si-H.

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    Here's my results (I put in the function abbreviations in accordance with what P, E, F, I, L, R, S, and T mean them to be)!



    Holy crap - given all the available subtypes, this would make me an Si-SEE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    The Harmonizing subtype (the IP persona types -- I prefer Gulenko's term "persona type" over the one he uses more commonly, "energy type") is all about creating and maintaining harmony, balance, and peace. Ni-Harmonizing and Si-Harmonizing do this in opposite ways: Ni-Harmonizing feels incapable of creating harmony in the external world, and so detaches from the world in order to create and preserve harmony internally, within the self. Si-Harmonizing does feel capable of creating harmony in the external world, but at the expense of maintaining harmony internally: it detaches from the self to create and preserve harmony in its interactions with others.

    Si-Harmonizers become chameleons, changing themselves to become whatever is needed to maintain harmony and avoid conflict and pain in the surrounding world.
    They can outwardly seem quite engaged, but "going with the flow" to this degree comes at the expense of "losing one's self" -- they become quite out of touch with who they really are, what they really want, etc. They need an Ne-Creative to see through the external reality to the potential underneath, to cause them to confront their true selves.
    Well, that not only nails just about everything, but explains a lot of other things I had rattling around in my mind... I knew I was more low-key than what would probably be generally expected from a Se-SEE, more distant than what would be expected from an Fi-SEE, and totally incapable of being anything other than an SEE (one cannot simply into Delta )...

    I suppose then, if given only two subtypes, I would be Se-SEE then?

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    Te 6
    Fe 6
    Se 6
    Ne 12
    Ti 8
    Fi 8
    Si 12
    Ni 12


    well...i guess this confirms i'm harmonizing subtype. woot

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    everyone got highest sum Pi so far

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    That seems to be some type of intellectual masturbation, even if not at its finest. Linking subtypes to specific functions might render your base socionics type useless in terms of self-identification and relational success.

    Anyway, my results:



    P
    Savings and thrift, diligence under the authority, reasonable business initiative, the implementation of standard processes.
    E
    Diplomacy, flexibility in communication, expression of emotions adequately the situation, the ability to keep the conversation going, good sense of humor.
    F
    Stubbornness in trying to pressure selects active neutrality remains "above the fray, to some extent, can tolerate rough treatment, and only then respond.
    I
    The active generation of ideas in various fields, yearning for experimentation and innovation, abnormal behavior, expressed by the ups and downs of health, associated with the tide "inspiration."
    L
    Compliance with the inevitable formalities to follow clear standards, maintaining the usual order, a desire to look seriously, be judicious.
    R
    Large reservoir, callousness, awkwardness in the relationship, ignoring the subtle feelings, weak psychologism, the underestimation of emotional support.
    S
    Maintain a minimum level of health, tracking the appearance of necessity, preparation of individual dishes, a simple arrangement of life.
    T
    Striving to be punctual, always a desire to succeed, the need for insurance, waiting for the right moment, adaptive to the general rhythm.
    Last edited by FDG; 05-30-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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    P - 12
    E - 5
    F - 7
    I - 4
    L - 4
    R - 8
    S - 3
    T - 7
    Шкала лжи- 2

    Not that bad, that's mostly what I get doing it manually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Trevor View Post
    everyone got highest sum Pi so far
    You're able to make out something of this ?

    EDIT: Never mind, I figured it out already.
    Last edited by Absurd; 05-30-2011 at 05:06 PM.

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    I didn't save my graph but it was pretty overwhelmingly "Fi".
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    Hopefully these are labeled correctly:



    Savings and thrift, diligence under the authority, reasonable business initiative, the implementation of standard processes.

    Moderate sociability, hospitality formal, superficial sense, the standard greeting and a joke.

    Strong excitability in critical situations, periodically provoked outbreaks of aggression, the ability to withstand harsh physical activity, bodily instincts, the pleasure of power and significance.

    The active generation of ideas in various fields, yearning for experimentation and innovation, abnormal behavior, expressed by the ups and downs of health, associated with the tide "inspiration."

    Prudence, foresight, thoughtfulness, judicious planning, the ability to navigate in the schemes and structures for compliance with the agreements.

    External courtesy, maintaining the required minimum of relations, respect for tradition, tolerance, or non-binding smile.

    Creating the necessary facilities, subject caring for loved ones, making good-quality things, the choice of quality products, neat appearance, does not trigger the disease.

    Immersion into the inner world of images and paintings of fantasy, prone to depression or trance states, withdrawal from reality, foresight or anticipation, expectation of change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Not that bad, that's mostly what I get doing it manually.
    .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Trevor View Post
    ......
    Never mind, got it already. You get it ? You do.

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    E=
    R=

    So rational subtype: Fi-normalizing / Fe-producing

    If that's what this test is all about. But it seems to support my self subtyping

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    D = Te + Fe
    C = Se + Ne
    N = Ti + Fi
    H = Si + Ni

    or, if you will

    D = P+E
    C = F+I
    N = L+R
    H = S+T

    I think

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    didn't understand a lot of the translated questions, but anyways...

    P/Te- 6
    E/Fe- 6
    F/Se- 0
    I/Ne- 5
    L/Ti- O
    R/Fi- 7
    S/Si- 5
    T/Ni- 7

    I guess I'm Normalizing/Dominant>>>Harmoning>>>>>Creative subtype according to this...?
    Some rational type at the very least
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    This is what happens when you publish too early. He may think himself a pioneer, but right now Gulenko is making himself look like an idiot. He's creating an enneagram-type situation in which an objective system is being interpreted subjectively... with no apparatus nor will to guide in spite of it. It's absolute academic irresponsibility.

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    some kind of metrics is here, at least. i'm not sure how good or bad that is

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Why are so many of you lopping the "lies" from your results? Afeared???
    what are you talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    what are you talking about?
    Note the final category or far right column in test results from FDG, Absurd, Valori, and myself, and you'll see where they say "scale lies" or "Шкала лжи". Compare them with everyone else's and you'll see the same is absent from theirs. I suspect this datum indicates how often a respondent provided contradictory answers (I received a handful of the same questions twice, so it's likely that others did as well).

    I withhold commentary on the spirit and content of tcaud's post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Note the final category or far right column in test results from FDG, Absurd, Valori, and myself, and you'll see where they say "scale lies" or "Шкала лжи". Compare them with everyone else's and you'll see the same is absent from theirs. I suspect this datum indicates how often a respondent provided contradictory answers (I received a handful of the same questions twice, so it's likely that others did as well).

    I withhold commentary on the spirit and content of tcaud's post.
    Mine never got a "scale lies" portion on it, just a P, E, F, I, L, R, S, and a T, which I turned into their functional equivalents by using GIMP (GNU/Linux equivalent-ish thing to Photoshop)

    Did a lot of people take different versions of the same test maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Mine never got a "scale lies" portion on it
    Interesting.

    Did a lot of people take different versions of the same test maybe?
    I followed the same link as other people around the same time and some reported seeing different questions than others had received. I'm unsure whether this resulted from different machine translators or different questions.

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    i had the lies thing but it said 0. i dont remember getting the same question twice.

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    Here's the raw screenshot of what I got:



    As for the translations - I copied and pasted each question into Google translate there might have been an easier way to do it, but I didn't want to get confused when I could just be getting stuff done...

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Here's the raw screenshot of what I got:



    As for the translations - I copied and pasted each question into Google translate there might have been an easier way to do it, but I didn't want to get confused when I could just be getting stuff done...
    You took Meged-Ovcharov's test. You should have taken the Gulenko one. Were you the only one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Trevor View Post
    You took Meged-Ovcharov's test. You should have taken the Gulenko one. Were you the only one?
    Wait, there was another test?

    fdknjhdg8eythouagtbuy879y3489q
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    oh good grief, I really wanna take this test but too lazy to translate. Anyway, I saw the link to the slow and fast nines and if I'm a nine (nah, I think I'm a four), I'd definitely be a slow nine. interesting.

    I'm Si-harmonizing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Note the final category or far right column in test results from FDG, Absurd, Valori, and myself, and you'll see where they say "scale lies" or "Шкала лжи". Compare them with everyone else's and you'll see the same is absent from theirs. I suspect this datum indicates how often a respondent provided contradictory answers (I received a handful of the same questions twice, so it's likely that others did as well).
    More like a reference point (as in, "where the scale lies"), I would say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    More like a reference point (as in, "where the scale lies"), I would say.
    Ahh, yeah that makes sense, since some people tend to provide more "positive" answers than others.
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