VI this girl! ExxP??

[Creepy-]

Sooo there's this girl I work with and I've been trying to figure out her type since forever.

[photos removed]

She's a very moody person, and her feelings seem to fluctuate from day to day depending on the circumstances. At the same time she's an amazingly fast worker and able to jump from one task to another flawlessly. She has trouble with follow-through, I think she gets bored with repetition. Weird thing is she loves to clean though, and actually prefers cleaning tasks over standing at register all day (we do customer service). However if she's the only one cleaning she'll get pissed off and feel like we're using her for slave labor (lol). I also find her to be a really sensitive person because she takes a lot of things personally, for example when a customer is being rude or another coworker is having a bad day. Sometimes she acts out on it.

She's always hanging out with somebody somewhere, she easily makes friends with customers and has gone on dates with some of them. She has a way of making people feel good about themselves, easily compliments and flatters them, etc. She cares a lot about her appearance, and people who are "clean". She very much appreciates people who are straightforward and honest even though she herself rarely is, I think she finds it very admirable.

There's more I could write but I'd like to hear some opinions first. I'm thinking she's some kind of ExxP. Whatchu think?

[Beautiful sky]

She's a very pretty ESFp

[Creepy-]

What makes you think ESFP instead of ENFP?

[Beautiful sky]

What makes you think ESFP instead of ENFP?

ENFp are a lot more submissive, a lot more likely to do things and not complain about being used; something about being used that indicates a person needing appreciation and support in an Se way that I believe ENFp's do without. Yes, ENFp do become slaves to their jobs and not having a good handle on Si, may even work ridiculously long hour and not really complain.

EDIT: I am settling on ISFp based on her obsession about her appearance.

[EyeSeeCold]

She's glowing...Creative ?

[Galen]

ENFp seems likely. She kinda VIs like Mattie.

[Galen]

Yes, ENFp do become slaves to their jobs and not having a good handle on Si, may even work ridiculously long hour and not really complain.

No I don't.

[discojoe]

Yeah, my gut reaction is IEE. SEE is possible, though.

[Creepy-]

My initial typing for her was ENFP too, because there's stuff she says to me that just doesn't scream "ESFP". For example we're pretty close now at work, and so instead of saying base things to me like "Oh you look nice today", or gossiping about the other workers/customers, she'll talk to me about her life, going back to school, what she wants to do, the guys she's in love with. She says she hates people who have no common sense!!, and she couldn't be with a guy that's boring.

Some things throw me off though, like how she obsesses about her appearance. She's always buying brand name things, almost like she has to prove that she can be normal or at least up to everyone's standards. Also she doesn't take B.S. from authority and she will rebel against us if we ask her to do something that she doesn't think makes sense.

[1981slater]

Fi ENFp

[Creepy-]

Fi-IEE.

we're pretty close now at work, and so instead of saying base things to me like "Oh you look nice today", or gossiping about the other workers/customers, she'll talk to me about her life, going back to school, what she wants to do, the guys she's in love with. She says she hates people who have no common sense!!, and she couldn't be with a guy that's boring.

"You look nice today" is a base thing to say?

If so, I would offend you often and extensively, as I always notice/comment on such things.

[munenori2]

From the pics I would have guessed ESFp, but the description makes me think more ENFp.

[Creepy-]

Sorry Song, I didn't mean it that way. I assumed she was just trying to make conversation since she makes those types of comments to everyone else, too.

Would an FI-IEE care about what other people think of them? She's told me before that she isn't here to make friends, and she'd prefer it if people hated her

[1981slater]

Would an FI-IEE care about what other people think of them?

Never heard a female Fi saying sth like: "that bitch gave me a suspicious gaze"

[Galen]

Would an FI-IEE care about what other people think of them?

Yes. Fi-ENFps are also subject to the human condition.

She's told me before that she isn't here to make friends, and she'd prefer it if people hated her

eugh :/

[Creepy-]

Sorry Song, I didn't mean it that way. I assumed she was just trying to make conversation since she makes those types of comments to everyone else, too.

No worries; no need to apologize I just saw that and was like, Well damn; I must irritate a lot of people daily if that's a common perception.

I still don't get why that would be bad... unless you're seeing it as a sign of fakeness bc she makes similar comments to many people. FWIW, I do that too, w friends, coworkers, strangers, whomever. I'm not being fake, though; I genuinely mean whatever compliments I say.

Would an FI-IEE care about what other people think of them? She's told me before that she isn't here to make friends, and she'd prefer it if people hated her

I second Galen's answer to the first question.

Regarding the second, what was the context? Did she mean in a specific situation, or in everyday life? And was it a comment that's typical of her, or was she having a bad day?

[EyeSeeCold]

Write more.

[Creepy-]

I still don't get why that would be bad... unless you're seeing it as a sign of fakeness bc she makes similar comments to many people. FWIW, I do that too, w friends, coworkers, strangers, whomever. I'm not being fake, though; I genuinely mean whatever compliments I say.

I'm usually pretty good at reading someone's intentions and whether they're good/genuine or not. I would probably trust and be very flattered by your compliments

However this girl I'm still uncertain about, because she keeps oscillating. She can seem fake at times, you see her go from charming a customer/coworker to commenting on them after they left. However she is not very smooth with it, for example if someone walks in on her gossiping about them, she doesn't quickly change the subject (and I say doesn't because she doesn't even seem to try to), so she ends up screwing herself over and having them hate her for catching her in the act. She fluctuates between lying/being brutally honest. She does have this admirable thing about honesty--if you ask her a direct question she cannot lie to you.

I think for the most part, she is truthful and honest with her opinions towards me. Perhaps because I don't seem to judge her or treat her any differently for her opinions. The fact that I'm her supervisor could also mean she's putting up some kind of front for me, I dunno. It's why I can't trust her fully yet.

Regarding the second, what was the context? Did she mean in a specific situation, or in everyday life? And was it a comment that's typical of her, or was she having a bad day?

She made that comment after she had gotten into a tiff with one of our coworkers and I was trying to calm her down. It probably was just out of anger.. but at the same time... she doesn't really try to make friends with anyone at work (which baffles me because I like to make friends with everyone I work with, and if she's another NF, wouldn't she too??) and she keeps her distance, I think also because she thinks she's above them.

I have also considered ESTP for her, but I just can't get over the fact that she seems so sensitive to me..

Wouldn't an NF be more skilled in navigating work politics?

[Creepy-]

When I say she cares a lot about her appearance, I mean she cares a LOT. Like, our employee bathroom smells like her house. Cause she brings her blow dryer, and her hair products, and perfume, etc etc. She tosses her stuff all over the place, all the time. And consequently loses it. She's bossy too, not J-like bossy but when she gets frustrated she starts throwing directives out all over the place. And she's not even a supervisor yet lol. And if you're not doing things to standard, she will tell you. And if you don't seem to care about your job, or the other coworkers, she will hate you.

But if she likes you, she showers you with attention and gifts. It's all so.. crazy

Some background.. she lives with her roommate of 5 years, moved out of her parent's house when she was 14 (she grew up in the projects, moved straight to the 'burbs), never went to college. She listens to pop and alt. rock. Smokes tons of weed, drinks like a sailor. Hangs out with people 10 years older than her. Constantly complains about how people are immature, childish, and conversely, boasts about how everyone treats her as older than she is. Btw, she's only 20. She just recently started taking some classes right now after some pushing from her ex, and then she plans on joining the military. She refuses to do ROTC, saying "Hell if I'm going to join the army as some kind of student.. I'm gonna enter as an officer". Nevermind the fact that she weighs like 90 lbs

[Creepy-male]

creative Fi which means

ESFp or ENFp

and btw she is really attractive !

[EyeSeeCold]

SEE

Digits?

[Suz]

I'm leaning SEE too, but the story you tell about her suggests to me that she's had to develop a tough no-nonsense demeanor to (1) grow up in the projects and (2) get the hell outta there and (3) survive as a hardworking person without a college degree to reach a very respectable position in which she's currently working.

So, she could be an IEE who has had to develop this exterior because of her life experiences. But I agree, she VI's more SEE, though i'm not 100% sure.

[Creepy-]

I'm leaning SEE too, but the story you tell about her suggests to me that she's had to develop a tough no-nonsense demeanor to (1) grow up in the projects and (2) get the hell outta there and (3) survive as a hardworking person without a college degree to reach a very respectable position in which she's currently working.

So, she could be an IEE who has had to develop this exterior because of her life experiences. But I agree, she VI's more SEE, though i'm not 100% sure.

Hmm.. she could be. So the difference lies between Ne and Se right?

There was a day when I brought back some pasta from a new restaurant I'd found down the street. It was an excellent find, good food, cheap eats, right around the corner. I was eating it for lunch when she came into the back room and asked what I was eating. I let her try some and she took a bite, then wanted me to go get some for her.. my break was almost over so I told her it was right around the corner, so she could go get it herself on her break. To which she gave me this helpless look like, "I'm not good with directions, it's right around the corner? I'll get lost for an hour!" And I told her I'd draw her a map, but she just went

She is also for the most part apprehensive about trying new things, which I'm always trying to get her to do. Basically, why fix something if it's not broken? Why change something if there's no need for change?

So.. Se > Ne? SEE?

[Suz]

Would an FI-IEE care about what other people think of them? She's told me before that she isn't here to make friends, and she'd prefer it if people hated her

what was the context? Did she mean in a specific situation, or in everyday life? And was it a comment that's typical of her, or was she having a bad day?

When i read Skittlez' question this also went through my head. My feeling is she didn't REALLY mean that she wants people to hate her, it was likely a reaction to something that happened that upset her, and was sort of rationalizing her being harsher than she thought she should have been to whoever upset her. I feel that this actually reflects Fi-value, because it bothered her to have had to take whatever measures she took, and she suspects that person might hate her back (good understanding of Fi consequences).

She made that comment after she had gotten into a tiff with one of our coworkers and I was trying to calm her down. It probably was just out of anger.. but at the same time... she doesn't really try to make friends with anyone at work (which baffles me because I like to make friends with everyone I work with, and if she's another NF, wouldn't she too??) and she keeps her distance, I think also because she thinks she's above them.

I have also considered ESTP for her, but I just can't get over the fact that she seems so sensitive to me..

Wouldn't an NF be more skilled in navigating work politics?

Speaking for myself, I am pretty cautious about who I let into my close circle of friends. One feature that i've heard distinguishes SEE from IEE is that SEEs tend to want to avoid bad friendships right off the bat. IEEs start out friendly and wanting to be friends but then adjust accordingly as more info becomes available. What you've observed about her not really trying to make friends could reflect the caution to avoid bad friendships.

And from everything you've described about her, I highly doubt ESTp. An ESTp would be doing crazy stupid antics to make people like him/her, and then get offended if they dont get enough of an emotional response. And an ESTp wouldn't be talking about men she's in love with as her preferred conversation topic, I dont think. And your descriptions of her just sound very Fi-driven.

[Filambee]

She is not an ESFps because the space between her nose and mouth is not close signifying that she probably has less estrogen than the average female. Compare that space to Snooki's who is an ESFp:

[Galen]

wtf, Snookie is the most alpha thing to have ever been conceived

[Filambee]

wtf, Snookie is the most alpha thing to have ever been conceived

First you say "Fe" then you say "alpha"? hmm... You post this, but you give no reason behind your conclusion.

"They are naturals at concentrating social attention on themselves or on anyone else they bring into the limelight."
from ESFp description on wikisocion.org

Snooki is definitely someone who thrives for attention.

[Beautiful sky]

My initial typing for her was ENFP too, because there's stuff she says to me that just doesn't scream "ESFP". For example we're pretty close now at work, and so instead of saying base things to me like "Oh you look nice today", or gossiping about the other workers/customers, she'll talk to me about her life, going back to school, what she wants to do, the guys she's in love with. She says she hates people who have no common sense!!, and she couldn't be with a guy that's boring.

Some things throw me off though, like how she obsesses about her appearance. She's always buying brand name things, almost like she has to prove that she can be normal or at least up to everyone's standards. Also she doesn't take B.S. from authority and she will rebel against us if we ask her to do something that she doesn't think makes sense.

That can be taken two ways; either she wants Ne (hence, she may actually be ISFp) or she is so involved with External world as an Se. The second is very Si, her personal appearance is a matter of what makes them feel good. I think I'm sure and I'm going to change my typing of her to ISFp now.

[Galen]

"They are naturals at concentrating social attention on themselves or on anyone else they bring into the limelight."
from ESFp description on wikisocion.org

There is 0 reason as to why this can't also apply to alpha SFs.

[Filambee]

I think that she is the same type as me - ENTp. I think she might have a lot of self esteem issues though.

She has a wide range of facial expressions--

People say that about me, too.

She's a very moody person, and her feelings seem to fluctuate from day to day depending on the circumstances.

I, too, can be moody but it's not dependent on circumstances, it's just random. Sometimes, I can be really outgoing, silly, and fun, and other times I don't want to interact with anyone and can be really irritable. But maybe that just goes with being a woman.

She has trouble with follow-through, I think she gets bored with repetition.

That's definitely me.

I also find her to be a really sensitive person because she takes a lot of things personally, for example when a customer is being rude or another coworker is having a bad day. Sometimes she acts out on it.

I use to be like this.

Also she doesn't take B.S. from authority and she will rebel against us if we ask her to do something that she doesn't think makes sense.

I used to argue a lot, too, if I thought the rules were stupid. Now I don't argue that much, though. I just break them or do it my way without people knowing.

She does have this admirable thing about honesty--if you ask her a direct question she cannot lie to you.

That's me, too. Sometimes I can be TOO honest and I hurt people's feelings without realizing it.

Some things throw me off though, like how she obsesses about her appearance. She's always buying brand name things, almost like she has to prove that she can be normal or at least up to everyone's standards.

When I say she cares a lot about her appearance, I mean she cares a LOT. Like, our employee bathroom smells like her house. Cause she brings her blow dryer, and her hair products, and perfume, etc etc. She tosses her stuff all over the place, all the time. And consequently loses it.

Like her, there was a time that I placed great importance on my appearance. I had a Coach purse, $300 Cole Hann boots (loved them!), I would rather be late than go out of the house looking like a mess. I cared so much about what people thought of me. Description of female ENTps from Wikisocion:
"Since women are expected to pay more attention to their clothes and to look good, DONKAs can be dressed with excessive thoroughness. But this, of course, applies to an official or stylish costume, and here they particularly value company labels."

I also loose stuff a lot cause I leave it everywhere.

To which she gave me this helpless look like, "I'm not good with directions, it's right around the corner? I'll get lost for an hour!"

That's totally me! I get lost so easily!

[Creepy-]

Filambee, I'm really glad you added your input because now I'm seriously starting to consider ENTP.

I should emphasize the fact that she is always talking about how she needs people who have common sense -- The type of guys she looks for are typically much older men, in their 40's, who don't take life too seriously and can make her laugh. Yet they also need to know how to behave socially, dress and groom themselves well, and have a successful career in an impressive field (lawyer, doctor, etc). Her roommate is always taking care of her somehow, whether it's bringing her clothes she left at somebody's house to work, or picking her up when her shift ends, or answering her calls whenever she calls him actually. Her best friend is in culinary school studying to become a chef, and cooks for her all the time.

And the V.I. description for ILE on wikisocion is eerily accurate..

A woman of this type most often looks like a good-looking, lean boy. During her childhood, she even behaves not like a girl should: often runs around with boys, climbs trees and garages, plays war (fights pretend battles, not the card game), scorning traditional girlish entertainment. As a general rule, she will remain a “boy” for her entire life. Slenderness and a certain skinniness are characteristic of the majority of DONKAs at any age. For women of this type, an active attitude towards life is characteristic, and they are rarely satisfied being a stay-at-home mom, who spends many years sitting at home with her child.

Since women are expected to pay more attention to their clothes and to look good, DONKAs can be dressed with excessive thoroughness. But this, of course, applies to an official or stylish costume, and here they particularly value company labels. And, for regular days, regular jeans with a nice sweater will do (but they absolutely must be labeled (again from a company)).

The face of a woman with the type DON QUIXOTE is often symmetrical and beautiful. The eyes are smart, too serious, concentrated and even excessively wary for a pretty lady. Fortunately, when she smiles, this impression disappears for a while. By her ability and mental development, DONKA does not yield to men of the same type. Quickly figuring out what’s what, she becomes bored and feels burdened by long-winded explanations. If her upbringing does not allow her to interrupt whoever she is talking to, she literally does not know what to occupy herself with, while she is forced to listen to the end.

[Filambee]

Yea! I'm so glad I could help! So her roommate is a guy? I think he's an ISFp. OMG, she should totally date him! You know what... before I started getting into Socionics, I thought that I wanted a guy that was really smart and successful just like she wants, but what I really needed is someone that accepts me for me. I would always over look them, though, because they weren't very sophisticated, but they were the people that I could totally be goofy and myself around.

[eunice]

The girl seems like an Fi-ENFp. Moreover, she gives me Delta vibes.

[shindaiwa21]

My first impression was SEI, but I'm kinda feeling it for SLI. God that Te/Fi delta edge. Some delta NF could be possible that but that would be a secondary typing.

[Suz]

She is not an ESFps because the space between her nose and mouth is not close signifying that she probably has less estrogen than the average female. Compare that space to Snooki's who is an ESFp:

wtf, Snookie is the most alpha thing to have ever been conceived

I thought Snookie was EIE.

And I didn't know estrogen level was related to type. Do you have a source? I'm intrigued.

[Timeless]

EP + Infantile = -IEE/ENFp.

She also reminds me of my IEE friend who looks 95% like her.

[Suz]

Oh and I reread the whole thread with the suggestion of ILE in mind, and I think you guys are onto something. Maybe I read too much into what I imagined she might be thinking in her personal interactions with people, but maybe it is really Fi-POLR and her being defensive about it.

I compared her pics to some people thought to be ILE and I definitely see similarities.

[Filambee]

And I didn't know estrogen level was related to type. Do you have a source? I'm intrigued.

I read about four different chemicals - estrogen, testosterone, dopamine, and serotonin - affecting personality traits in Why Him? Why Her? by Helen Fisher. She also discusses some physical features that arise from some of the chemicals.

[Galen]

I thought Snookie was EIE.

Oh uhm, maybe. I just passed over her once, but her Fe seems very readily apparent.

[Suz]

I read about four different chemicals - estrogen, testosterone, dopamine, and serotonin - affecting personality traits in Why Him? Why Her? by Helen Fisher. She also discusses some physical features that arise from some of the chemicals.

I'll have to check it out! Thanks!