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Thread: Type questions (stolen from another forum)

  1. #1
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Default Type questions (stolen from another forum)

    These seemed good, so I'm posting them up here for whoever wants to use them.

    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    20. What is your predominant fault?

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  2. #2
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    My replies:

    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?

    I'm friendly. The opposite of that is Montgomery Burns.
    I'm witty. The opposite of that is dull.
    I'm intelligent. The opposite of that is Homer Simpson.
    I'm helpful. The opposite of that is unhelpful.
    I'm open and outgoing. The opposite of that is reserved.

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.

    I'm friendly, but I can be a mean, bullheaded prick when I get into a confrontational situation, such as a debate. I'm also somewhat shy and hesitate to approach new people and I'm highly prone to bouts of depression, and rage. I don't think the former counts though, because I'm very friendly to people who approach me. Being unfriendly could be a good thing because it doesn't allow people to take advantage of you.

    I have trouble coming up with clever things to say around crowds that I intuit won't be receptive to my kind of humor (which is frankly a bit pedantic and weird -- best fit for intelligent audiences). Being dull avoids offending disrespecting or offending someone.

    I'm smart but I SUUUCK at puzzles, riddles, etc. of any kind. I... can't think of any reason being dumb would be a good thing.

    I might become unhelpful if I'm tired or cranky. Again, it avoids being taken advantage of.

    Being prone to depression and rage, I occasionally retreat within myself and don't wanna see anybody, become very reserved. Being reserved carries the benefit of offering opportunity for reflection.

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

    Find your calling. What you really wanna do in life, what you'd be willing to give anything up for. Until you do don't sweat it -- just enjoy the ride.

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

    Be smart. Stand up for yourself. And most importantly, be responsible. God knows life's bitten me in the ass more times n' I can count for not following my own advice.

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?

    Pillage and burn.

    Nah, j/k. I'd probably go traveling around the world, talk to anyone interesting that crosses my path, meet all of my online friends.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?

    1) Given that I have a long-term future to look forward to, I'm working on that.
    2) Given the above, I'd rather wait until I have the capital to do this comfotably.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?

    To be admired, accepted and appreciated; looked up to. To be on top of the world, a celebrity of sorts.

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

    I'm actually going after what I want, but I briefly settled for working customer service in lieu of a real career out of laziness.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?

    I try to avoid conflicts when I feel that to charge into them would put me at real risk, but otherwise I handle them by becoming cold, cutting and cynical. At home I maintain the image of a meek, sweet person, but outside I've actually been punched out for some smartass comment or another several times. In general, I'm actually somewhat chameleon-like in my personality, to the extent that I've had trouble discovering who I really am inside.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

    Diet and exercise, responsibility in meeting your commitments, but without forgetting to have fun, and lots of it. Being happy is above all the most important ingrediant to being healthy.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

    Jokey, light-hearted and happy, but nowhere near as spontaneous as I outwardly seem. I enjoy being the center of attention, and thus I tend to deliberately make myself appear clownish and random. I actually plan and strategize ahead conversations and debates.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?

    Right now, more independence than I have.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?

    erm, no idea.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?

    It needs moar bookz.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?

    It's great. never better.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?

    Rest. I've been working hard these past few days, and I'm feeling the strain.

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?

    See above.

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    Head. In practice I'm very capricious and indulgent (somewhat despite myself) though, so my body often ends up having the last say.

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    They're all important. I don't think I can pick one.

    20. What is your predominant fault?

    L A Z I N E S S

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    idfk lol

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    Same

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.

    Doing nothing. I need a brutal mental effort to shake off my permanent lethargy make myself actually do what I need to do, and often I fail at that.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

    Argue with my parents, or whoever I'm dependent on, if anyone (right now I'm in college, unemployed and living with my aunt. I'm terrified of homelessness.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

    Support from friends, possibly the absolute necessity to face them (by exernal circumstances).

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?

    Bah, too lazy to answer. I think I've done it above though
    Last edited by Aleksei; 02-03-2011 at 08:29 PM.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    I will have to answer these in probably several posts over the next while, so, time to get started...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    [B]1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?
    Independent-- Dependent
    Empathetic-- Apathetic
    Imaginative-- Concrete
    Generous-- Hoarder
    Naiive-- Sophisticated
    Impulsive-- Premeditative

    Okay, so I did 6...

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
    I'll come back to this one.

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?
    Serve God and fellow men (and women). Learn. Love. And be able to look back on the whole experience with mostly fond memories, and knowing you did your best with what you were given.

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?
    Be true to who you are, and what you want to be. Do your best to get along with others, but don't compromise yourself and what you firmly believe in. It's good to be self-sacrificing at times, but make sure you always take care of your own needs as well- physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually. When you are truly happy, the people who you love and who love you will find it easier to be happy, too. And when they're happy, you will be happy. And so on. It all starts with taking care of you. But never do so at the expense of others, either. It's a delicate balance.
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

  4. #4
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    I'm down

    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?
    I like to have direct connections with other people, the opposite of which would be to not be connected with anybody.
    I'm funny in a very dry/sarcastic way, the opposite of which would be to either not be funny at all or do so in a very in-your-face "this is the joke" way.
    I'm very easily emotionally influenced by things, the opposite being not emotionally affected at all.
    I'm somewhat artistically inclined, the opposite being inclined towards business.
    I think of myself as being very introspective, the opposite being living completely outside of myself.

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
    I can be very shy about my desires to connect with others, so then I stay removed from the situation. I can't imagine how not wanting to interact with other people would be a positive thing, even though I do it more often than I care to admit.
    Since I'm so dry people tend to not tell when I'm joking, which results in a lot of awkward pauses where the other party doesn't get that I'm not serious.
    Not being so heavily emotionally affected by things would mean I can concentrate on things outside of myself.
    I'd love to be more confident in terms of business. Confidence in general would be a good thing.
    I have a tendency to get stuck inside my emotions, so being able to break out of that is a good skill to have.

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?
    "That's not my job to decide, it's all yours."

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?
    Understand yourself in as much detail as possible, make sure you're as mentally stable and healthy as you can be.

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?
    Surround myself with family and friends, find a boyfriend, make sure I'm as happy as I've ever wanted to be.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?
    I like this question.
    Recently I've been coming to understand what I really want out of life, and I'm starting to try to fulfill those. The boyfriend thing is going to take a while for several reasons that I don't really want to get into right now, but I'm remaining as vigilant as ever.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?
    To be unafraid to seek out other people.

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?
    So far I've settled for trying to be happy alone. Isn't working so far.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?
    Sarcasm, withdrawal, pleas for sympathy.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?
    Introspection, making friends, keeping those friends as long as possible.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?
    Much more open and engaging than I am otherwise.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?
    To have an intense, meaningful connection with another human being. To be heavily impacted by the things around me and to reflect those impacts back upon the world.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?
    Well now that I'm thinking about it, unfulfilled, starved for that true connection.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?
    My head likes to think that it's in control of what I want, but all it ever does is mess shit up.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?
    Condition? Probably that which I just said.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?
    To stop slouching because it hurts my back.

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?
    More upright than it was 10 seconds ago.

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    Heart, although my head tends to butt in and ruin eveything.

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    Body, just by process of elimination.

    20. What is your predominant fault?
    Shyness, fear of putting myself out there.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    There was this feeling that everything in the universe simply worked: everything was exactly where it needed to be, I was where I was supposed to be. The wheels of the universe were turning without fault, everything made sense simply because it existed, existence was the only justification for the world to exist.

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    Unsure of the future; weak, a slave to my emotions and to other people.

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.
    Intensity, meaningful contact with others.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?
    Be overly confrontational with others. It's not in my nature to do so, even though I wish it was.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?
    Mental sobriety and reorientation, positivity.

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?
    Know thyself, love thyself.






    These seem more enneagram-related than anything else IMO.

  5. #5
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    They were designed for Enneagram, but they work with most typologies.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  6. #6
    Creepy-male

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    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?

    I'm not sure.

    That's one then: lack of self-awareness. The opposite is having a clear sense of self.
    I live inside my head, I guess. This is as opposed to people who are constantly pursuing "outside stuff" (I can think of a friend of mine who CONSTANTLY NEEDS TO BE DOING THINGS.)
    I have a sense of humor. The opposite would be not having a sense of humor?
    I'm relaxed. The opposite is people who are impatient and tightly wound.
    I have a sense of poetry and magic. The opposite is dry practicality... but I have this too.

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.

    Having a clear sense of self is an obvious one.
    Outside people presumably have less issues with mood inertia. Living inside my head makes me susceptible to being overwhelmed by the whimsy of my moods.
    Lacking a sense of humor can't possibly be good. Humor gives clarity of awareness, an ability to cope, and is socially desirable.
    Being relaxed is also being unmobilised. In situations that require consistent effort or focus, I'm way behind the curve. People who are tense and GO! GO! GO! are great at getting stuff done.

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

    Have fun! Life is about enjoying it

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

    Too little context to answer. Why was this child asking me? As a general answer, if a five-year old is asking "what is the meaning of life", even if only equipped with the impressionable, immature mind of a child, there's a great intellect there waiting to hatch. I'd see myself there. I'd tell them,

    "Chin up. People are always going to get you down, and you'll likely be different while growing up. Be kind to the other kids, but remember that you're above them being mean to you."

    That said if I said that to myself I don't think I'd really understand. Kids that young are almost like herding a cattle stampede

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?

    I don't know. I'd probably try and imagine what I'd regret not doing, then go out and do it.

    Also, go through the emotional cycle of dealing with your impending death. But do you know what feeling I'd settle on? Relief. Relief that I wouldn't have to deal with this hateful circus any longer.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?

    Because I'm already dead. I've spent my life waiting for my body to catch up, wondering why I have to endure all this strain.

    Why did you ask? Do you want to bear this cross for me? This makes me angry beyond words... how dare you ask...

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?

    Peace and beauty, finally losing myself. I suppose something like the buddhist nirvana.

    Support and genuine happiness.

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

    Flashes of something bigger, and a slow and gentle life with friends, food, music, and nature.

    Resentment, grief, breaking under the load of the farce I call "being strong" because I had my ability to trust people to help me kicked out from under me growing up.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?

    Don't think, don't feel, escape into my mind when I can't cope, escape into fantasy when that can't hold everything off either. Don't engage with my life, because it hurts. Don't connect with people, don't let people touch me emotionally unless I let them in first, keep my emotions somewhere far away, as far away as possible.

    And I hate it. It's untenable doing all that and holding off the emptiness.

    It's like daoism. Voiding your emotions leaves an emotional void, all you wind up doing is substituting your pain for the grief over losing your life, seeing it drift away down the river of time as you stand on the banks.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

    The hell you asking me? It should be patently obvious that I have no idea.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

    I'm like me. I'm never in tense or threatening situations, I avoid those like the plague, or just go elsewhere in my head.

    What am I like? Cheery and relaxed, I suppose. I crack a lot of jokes. I tend to talk about nerdy things a lot, but my friends at the moment don't follow so I don't talk about things.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?

    Help. Love.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?

    I'm unfit, so I have something like "low heartrate variance" or something.

    ^I hope that made you laugh.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?

    It doesn't.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?

    I just woke up, so the internal side is moving slow. I could talk someone's ear off though.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?

    A cold shower and a slow day to build energy for tomorrow.

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?

    Slow. Mind and body are one in the same, don't you know? The human being is a perfect system of unity. Mind/heart/body is a spurious distinction.

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    Body and mind in unison. I'm cautious, I think things through, but I'm impatient and can't think for too long before acting. I commit to a philosophy of shamelessness and lack of regret, because it's best to leave your instincts unfettered so they can do as they will. That way you never make the wrong decision

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    My heart. Feelings are irrational, one-dimensional thinkers. Instinct and intuition function on something larger than your mind, feelings something lesser.

    20. What is your predominant fault?

    Emotional troubles.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    This was a time that happened? Fuck me sideways, I must have missed it.

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    I don't.

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.

    When I break under the load of real life, this all-consuming feeling of "It's too much, I can't deal with this, I want to escape someplace that isn't difficult."

    Also, bread and pastry.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

    Nothing.

    I really want to do nothing, but that's not a self-sustaining existence.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

    Faith that a person is there to help me and is trustworthy and reliable.

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?

    Life sucks. Enjoy it.

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    Nice!

    You can find us by googling “Personality Nation”

    I’d like to see more type analysis for other typologies and if they’ll help for MBTI, Socionics, etc. I’m still trying to work them to help out with enneagram. I’m missing some variant questions.

    They’re basically a collection of questions that I’ve created with the help of books. Any suggestions would be nice

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    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?
    I would keep a journal every single day, and fill it with things about my personal history, answer telling questions about myself (like the ones in this thread), write letters to every single friend and family member I can think of.

    I would make a will.

    I would spend every possible moment with my family, and together we would give as much service to those in need as we could.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?
    Good question. I definitely need to be better about keeping that journal. And my husband and I really need to make a will-- especially as regards what would happen to our children.

    I already spend as much time as possible with my family, and give service where I can. Though, the one thing that would be different in the above scenario, is I would increase the amount of service I gave...and why do I not increase it now? Well, that's another good question, and perhaps I should.

    Why am I not doing it all right now? I guess it all just boils down to feeling too busy and overwhelmed, lack of motivation at times, and also still trying to sort out my true priorities. Also, being low-income and often struggling just to keep the bills paid and the family fed and happy.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?
    This is a vague question. I'm not sure how to answer. Umm, greater patience would be nice. To think more before I act. To be a better example to my children, more loving and gentle. Less anxious and perfectionistic. To exercise better self-control.
    Last edited by pianosinger; 02-04-2011 at 05:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    They were designed for Enneagram, but they work with most typologies.
    I wondered about that. Because some of these just didn't seem really geared for Socionics typings.

    Hmm. Maybe this will give me some more insight for either confirming my current E-type or for suggesting other possibilities.
    My life's work (haha):
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    At least I think they were designed for Enneagram, based on the fact the stickied OP says they're Enneagram questions on it. I lifted them from Personality Nation, where pretty much everyone uses them as a basic template for type-me threads, in Enneagram and Jung.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    coming back to #2 now...

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
    Independent-- Dependent

    It can be good to be dependent on other people sometimes. Not only does it teach me humility, but it gives others the opportunity to be of service and to reap the blessings of being chartitable.

    Empathetic-- Apathetic

    Sometimes it would be nice not to care so much. Empathy can be a real burden, especially when there's absolutely nothing I can do to ease the situation.

    Imaginative-- Concrete

    If I were more completely down-to-earth, I'd probably be more content with daily life.

    Generous-- Hoarder

    If the sun blacked out, at least I'd have plenty of stuff to burn.

    Naiive-- Sophisticated

    I would be harder to take advantage of.

    Impulsive-- Premeditative

    If I were better at thinking before I act, I'd make a lot fewer mistakes.
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

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    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?
    I gave up a bachelor's degree to marry my husband. I gave up a career to raise my children. But, it's more like those things are just on hold than that I've completely given them up. I am slowly working towards becoming a personal trainer for pregnant and post-partum women.

    But, that's also not to say that I really wanted the degree and the career over my family, either. The two are not mutually exclusive. And it all came down to priorities.

    I've given up some freedom to travel and experience the world in favor of raising my family.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?
    Ignoring the unpleasant situation. Seeking diversion. Getting angry. Yelling at everybody.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?
    Practice good personal heigiene. Be active. Prepare your own nutritious food as much as possible. Do something you love every day. Surround yourself with trustworthy friends. Be a teacher to someone in some capacity-- you will end up teaching yourself in the process.
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

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    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?
    Highly creative. Open to anything. Trusting.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?
    To hug my boys, to just enjoy being a wife and mother, to cherish every day.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?
    Well-fed for the most part.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?
    To be calm and collected amidst chaos. Time to wind down and relax, to "reboot." To think of nothing once in a while, if only momentarily. Then, to be fully operational when required.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?
    Slightly unmotivated. A little foggy. I am chronically tired.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?
    Sunlight and exercise, to be outdoors. More healthy foods and less junk.

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?
    Achy. Tired.

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    Head, when I have the time and energy to think. Otherwise, my heart. Both pretty equally, I think. Though, it's also hard for me to really listen to either when my body is miserable.

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    Body, I guess. Not to say my body isn't important, but it's more like a roadblock to making decisions, rather than a help in any way.

    20. What is your predominant fault?
    I am Impatient.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    Warmth, love, reassurance. Happiness. Desire to start thinking more about others outside of myself and outside of my little circle. Desire to reach out and help others to be happy.

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    I wanted to implode. To just shut myself away somewhere, go into a coma for a while, something to get away from all the negativity within. I wanted everyone to just leave me alone.

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.
    Anger.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?
    Take extreme physical risks.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?
    Security. To know that I'll have a "happy place" to come home to when I'm through "adventuring." Also, to know that I am doing my best to be a good and worthy person, that I need not fear death.

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?
    To strive each day to be a bit of a better person than I was the day before.
    Last edited by pianosinger; 02-04-2011 at 07:48 PM.
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

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    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?
    Alive (dead)
    Christian (heathen)
    Female (male)
    Confident (unsure)
    Efficient (inefficient)

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
    Dead: I could be dead if I died. It's been done. Dying would be good for me because I'd get to go to Heaven.
    Heathen: I could be a heathen if I decided everything was God or nothing was God. It might be good...socially. For a while.
    Male: I could be male if I were born that way. It might be good to be male. George Washington didn't have a problem with it.
    Unsure: Being unsure is better than making the wrong decision. I can be unsure when I don't have enough information.
    Inefficient: I've been inefficient before. Mostly when I'm being silly. It's good to relax sometimes.

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?
    "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself."

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?
    "Be oh, so smart or oh, so pleasant."

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?
    Probably have a baby.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?
    Because I have time. I don't need to rush.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?
    Um...my own family?

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?
    I haven't substituted or settled.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?
    Blocking out and bottling up.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?
    Nutritious food and physical activity.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?
    Relaxed and non-threatening.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?
    I haven't come to a conclusion yet. You wouldn't believe what kind of gibberish the thing spills out.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?
    It works fine.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?
    For the headache to go away.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?
    Normal.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?
    Ham. And pie. Pumpkin pie. With whipped cream. And no fat on the ham.

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?
    My legs are strong, my neck is weak.

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    My head or body, depending on the decision. My heart has a low I.Q.

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    My heart. See previous answer.

    20. What is your predominant fault?
    Having difficulty thinking outside socionics terms.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    Connected to others? I don't think I've ever felt connected to more than one person at a time.

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    "It won't last forever."

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.
    I don't have much control sometimes in the evenings when I'm tired.
    God can give urges, but he's never taken over.
    My "heart" can give urges, but it's annoying.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?
    Use sharp knives casually.
    Let my 12-year-old brother drive me someplace.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?
    Fears.

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?
    "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose."

    ESTj
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    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?
    "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself."
    You forgot the end of that quote:

    "Unless he's Turkish, in which case, kill the bastard."
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?
    "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself."
    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?
    Alive (dead)
    Christian (heathen)
    Female (male)
    Confident (unsure)
    Efficient (inefficient)
    I guess there are better words for describing non-christians, and although this is technically not an insult, it suggest an attitude/vision which could not fit in your "purpose of life".

    Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. Right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I guess there are better words for describing non-christians, and although this is technically not an insult, it suggest an attitude/vision which could not fit in your "purpose of life".

    Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. Right?
    I tried not to be redundant in my antonyms. Even used a thesaurus. Know of a better word for "inefficient?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Hahahahaha Abbie you said I was lying when I said Christians think all non Christians can go to hell. Thanks for showing your true colors
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I guess there are better words for describing non-christians, and although this is technically not an insult, it suggest an attitude/vision which could not fit in your "purpose of life".
    Don't be so uptight. I actually enjoy being described as a filthy heathen (infidel has quite a nice ring to it as well).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Hahahahaha Abbie you said I was lying when I said Christians think all non Christians can go to hell. Thanks for showing your true colors
    What do you mean by that? That we couldn't care less or that we believe it'll happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Heathen obviously implies not being able to care any less.

    It mixes not religionites with "uncivilized people" and tries to assume a correlation.
    Heathen: an irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized person.
    The truth is the opposite in that we (humans) have never been civilized because of wars begun by incompatible and belligerent religious beliefs.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I guess there are better words for describing non-christians
    I agree. A little less conservative, a little more liberal please.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I tried not to be redundant in my antonyms. Even used a thesaurus.
    I see, then I apologize. I have an old one, and as apparently happened to you the solutions it offers not always are the best. Think that the word "heathen" is full of negative connotations.

    Know of a better word for "inefficient?"
    It is a direct antonym, therefore the best election IMO. Why did you ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Don't be so uptight. I actually enjoy being described as a filthy heathen (infidel has quite a nice ring to it as well).
    I was not. I simply pointed what seemed to be an inconsistency between behavior and purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Heathen obviously implies not being able to care any less.

    It mixes not religionites with "uncivilized people"


    The truth is we have never been civilized because of wars begun by incompatible and belligerent religious beliefs.
    I wasn't aware of the negative connotation associated with "heathen."

    I believe non-Christians will go to Hell, I don't want them to, but I'm not going to pester them about it. Unless you want me to.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    It is a direct antonym, therefore the best election IMO. Why did you ask?
    It seems kinda redundant.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I believe non-Christians will go to Hell...
    I didn't believe that even when I was a strong believer in my childhood. It is not compatible with a benevolent god, IMO.

    Anyway I will stop talking about this issue. This is a potential heat and long discussion and I do not want to be admonished due to derailment.

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    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?

    Thinking(Thoughtless)
    Self-Conscious(Unaware)
    Positive(Negative)
    Reasonable(Intolerable)
    Self-Assured(Fearful)

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.

    Thoughtless - There are plenty of things I don't think about, and it's good because thinking all the time can be daunting.
    Unaware - It's not uncommon that I let go of my self, and it's good because being too focused on certain things can be crippling.
    Negative - I do consider myself a realist who focuses on the good and bad, and it's good to focus on negative aspects to avoid disappointment
    Intolerable - There are certain times when I want things to be my way, and it's good because sometimes you just have to go with your gut even when it's against others wishes or beliefs.
    Fearful - I'm sometimes fear that things will turn out badly, and fear can be good because it motivates extra precaution.


    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

    whatever you make it to be

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

    Do what you gotta do to be where you want be.

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?

    probably do a lot of drugs, party a lot, or find love.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?

    because I care about my future, and I always have an eye out for love.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?

    Well, I really want to be happy. It's something you spend your whole life trying to get, and yet will never completely achieve.

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

    I haven't settled. I'm always in the process and forever will be.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?

    Deception, apathy.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

    Reflection, and action relevant to the reflection.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

    Energetic, enthusiastic.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?

    Companionship

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?

    discontent

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?

    Independence.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?

    discontent

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?

    food and exercise

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?

    discontent

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    head, it's reliable.

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    body, it has no consideration for the future.

    20. What is your predominant fault?

    Procrastination.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    Idk, contentment

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    Idk, discontentment

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.

    The urge to argue with people that I think are wrong.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

    run into downtown LA screaming "I hate black people" or drive on the wrong side of the road

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

    confidence

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?

    To live the life I want to live.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    How do you decode this into an enneagram?

    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?


    patient - restless
    disconnected - whole
    puppet - God
    genuine - cunning
    questioning - security

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.

    restless - could be me when I'm not thinking and just fulfilling a task with the energy of my body and it would be good because I would feel secure enough to do so

    whole - could be me when I find positive relationships with people and it would be good because I wouldn't feel so confused about what I want or who I want to be

    God - could be me when I act out rage without negative external judgement or am playing an aggressive sport and can act like an animal instead of a civilized human being and would be good because it feels great to feel like an unstoppable ballistic

    cunning - could be me when I dissociate from my desires and can act like a psychopath and would be good because it'll allow me some influence of power and control that I can use to give myself what I desire when I allow myself to do so

    security - could be me when I feel like I am competent and have positive meaningful relationships with most of the people in my life and would be good because it's nice to be able to care about someone and know that you would help them as much as they would help you in life

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

    I would say nothing and stare at the child with curiosity and maybe ask what caused them to ask the question.

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

    Tell her advice is a cheap thing.

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?

    Become a vagabond and travel around the poor but beautiful countries of Europe. I would like to see the cultures and beautiful landscapes devoid of mass human consumption.

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?

    If I ever came back to the USA I would be indebted for my student loans and if I was a working immigrant in another country I would have to work illegally and get treated as a second-rate human being.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?

    I want to be able to do what I think is right, to have enough power or influence that I don't have to feel powerless when people suffer and everyone turns a blind eye because no one knows how to help by themselves and don't think they can get others to band together through apathy.

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

    I'm a study robot and will probably work a 9-5 job where I do really tedious mundane engineering calculations because it's preferable to being a cashier or pizza delivery driver.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?

    I disengage my emotions if I can't leave a situation or close myself off from myself and other people if I can leave. I also make sure that I never have to work too hard because then I just get used and abused.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

    Finding a motivating purpose that makes pain and suffering feel like part of a reward of that purpose.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

    Friendly, I actually can enjoy using Fe.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?

    To die feeling a sense of awe for my life and to die actually thinking it worth it to cling as much as possible to my life.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?

    I lost it, it withered and is almost dead, or someone took it and I have no choice but to grow another if I care.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?

    Sleep.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?

    A bit dissociated.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?

    Speed (in movement).

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?

    A bit emaciated due to stress and periodic anhedonia, but probably healthy; but then again I'm not sure since I have a tendency not to realize I'm sick until it gets bad.

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    My head. It let's me form probabilities or expectations and gives me a pool of the least dangerous actions to take. It's extremely valuable, as if life is really just a chess game with an audience of jokers all trying to confuse and force a misstep.

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?

    Heart. Reality or other people don't care what I want or need, so it does no good to emphasize or brood over it for me. In fact, it becomes an excuse for others to berate for failure.

    20. What is your predominant fault?

    Too much reliance on dissociation.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    I felt secure and relaxed and that other people could be trusted to think that matters and that the world was more of a curious adventure, instead of a survival of the fittest slugging-match.

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

    I felt the most paralyzing fear I've ever felt and that other people don't care at all and that the world was not worth being in or the greatest peace (when I learned to dissociate) and that other people didn't matter to me and that the human world can't force me to play by rules that I no longer feel any fear of.

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.

    Indifference or over-indulgence in activity until my health suffers for it or addiction to intellectual ideas or fantasies (television, music, games, forums, movies, and books) that are so much more interesting than being involved with the people physically around me that just seem so...boring...

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

    Run away and live in the wilderness. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't last long since I have no experience with it. I used to want to buy a sailboat just so I could sail around and live off the ocean and maybe find an island that I could live on, but every piece of land, including islands, seems to be either owned or inhabited or is rough to live on.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

    I think the only thing that I'm afraid of is someone loving me because then I get anxiety over whether or not they will just leave, die, or disappear one day. Other than that I'm a little bit of a masochist and insane enough that it's kind of hard for me to take instinctive fear or pain too seriously for long. So I honestly don't know what I would need to face that or if I really even think it would be worth it.

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?

    Everyone is full of shit.
    Last edited by DividedsGhost; 06-09-2011 at 04:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I didn't believe that even when I was a strong believer in my childhood. It is not compatible with a benevolent god, IMO.
    Well, there's not a whole lot we can really know about the place. Do we even know if Hell is absent of his love? Basically we have free will, so our own beliefs become our own decisions. But I understand what you're saying and haven't really thought about it much--doesn't weigh heavily on my mind. He simply just asks for recognition of his eternal love. I know of many people who recognize it daily but still find themselves in a bad place with their actions, and through him they realize it and ask for help, give praise, and its all okay, they grow closer to him. I believe it all begins with a relationship. There is no necessity to do good or try to go to Heaven, until you actually take time to know and befriend Jesus. When you're doing that, the former doesn't really matter. It's all a matter of grace.

  30. #30
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    @Poli, I made an effort for not discussing about this. If you made your argumentation, then it's fair that I can make my own, but I still will try to go against my nature and be more brief than usual:

    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    Well, there's not a whole lot we can really know about the place.
    There is NOTHING we can know about hell, as there's nothing we can know about a supposed god if he/she/it exists. All you think you know about hell/god is not knowledge, but assumptions (faith). There's no proof about its existence, and there's no proof about its nature. If there are infinite interpretations/visions, and zero ways for proving them, why your own exactly will be truth against an infinite number which says you're wrong? Too lucky...
    (please avoid thinking "because Bible says so...", every revealed religion has similar opinion).

    Do we even know if Hell is absent of his love?
    Assuming hell exists, and assuming that god is good. Why should god be good, if he exists? If you define what is good as "what god says good is" then you're falling in circular reasoning.

    Basically we have free will, so our own beliefs become our own decisions.
    I disagree. If god exists, there could not be free will. You don't have the right of not existing under his rules, therefore there is no real free will, only for "obeying or not".

    He simply just asks for recognition of his eternal love.
    Assuming he exists, he is good, and you know what he wants. All assumptions. That's faith (you are free for choosing it) but there is no real "questioning + solving questions" in this, only beliefs.

    I know of many people who recognize it daily but still find themselves in a bad place with their actions, and through him they realize it and ask for help, give praise, and its all okay, they grow closer to him. I believe it all begins with a relationship. There is no necessity to do good or try to go to Heaven, until you actually take time to know and befriend Jesus. When you're doing that, the former doesn't really matter. It's all a matter of grace.
    This is the classical religious thinking. I will avoid answering to this because it would be too long and I'm not sure the answer will be productive.

    If you're interested in a more developed opinion, take a look to this:

    (damn, Youtube deactivated the soundtrack )

    English is not my mother tongue, so it could be difficult for reading/understanding (these are complex ideas for being translated).

    Sorry if I was a bit passionate in this post. I have zero problems with tolerant believers, I simply think the act of believing is harmful (IMO when you start believing, you stop thinking). Now after the answer, it would be better that we leave this off-topic debate.
    Last edited by ssss; 06-09-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    There is NOTHING we can know about hell, as there's nothing we can know about a supposed god if he/she/it exists. All you think you know about hell/god is not knowledge, but assumptions (faith). There's no proof about its existence, and there's no proof about its nature. If there's infinite interpretations/visions, and zero ways for proving them, why your own exactly will be truth against an infinite number which says you're wrong? Too lucky...
    (please avoid thinking "because Bible says so...", every revealed religion has similar opinion).
    Not sure where you're going with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I disagree. If god exists, there could not be free will. You don't have the right of not existing under his rules, therefore there is no real free will, only for "obeying or not".
    You lost me here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    If you're interested in a more developed opinion, take a look to this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL67cGuw7ME
    (damn, Youtube deactivated the soundtrack )
    Alright, I'll check it out. Though usually with typical kinds of logician proving God videos, I notice the person is halfwittedly giving skeptic's easy answers and pretending to know "how the world works", just like anyone else does. Doesn't do anything for me but entertain the entertainable. There doesn't have to be a logical explanation for any of this. Why waste time disproving God and try disproving existence or something Circular and event-based logic, doesn't add up well to an all-encompassing construct such as this where you can barely trim the iceberg of understanding with a human brain. Some people are balanced here, few actually understanding this, and others just assume they're the most intelligent being and that anything which doesn't make sense to them isn't true. It's good to think, try thinking about your own existence for a bit without reducing everything to flawed formulas.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Assuming he exists, he is good, and you know what he wants. All assumptions. That's faith (you are free for choosing it) but there is no real "questioning + solving questions" in this, only beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Sorry if I was a bit passionate in this post. I have zero problems with tolerant believers, I simply think the act of believing is harmful (IMO when you start believing, you stop thinking). I consider this issue very important, hence my "passion". Now after my answer, it would be better that we leave this off-topic debate.
    It's alright. Thinking isn't always productive in any sense, anyway. I feel free to think about what's most important to think about, and believe in what's most important to believe in. There's a major difference for me personally, and I'm still learning this difference.

  32. #32
    Creepy-ssss

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    Alright, I'll check it out. Though usually with typical kinds of logician proving God videos, I notice the person is halfwittedly giving skeptic's easy answers and pretending to know "how the world works", just like anyone else does. Doesn't do anything for me but entertain the entertainable. There doesn't have to be a logical explanation for any of this. Why waste time disproving God and try disproving existence or something
    Thanks for exemplifying why beliefs are beliefs

    Circular and event-based logic, doesn't add up well to an all-encompassing construct such as this where you can barely trim the iceberg of understanding with a human brain.
    Yeah I love this kind of argumentation. Humans cannot know... but at the same time we know that god (or equivalent trascendental concept) exists, what's his nature, what he wants, etc etc, etc. If you cannot know then you cannot know, so believing in something (regardless concrete belief) as if you can know is simply absurd. I still wonder why so many people does not notice this.

    With that argument in mind, the only logical choice is being agnostic, but strangely it's usually used by believers thinking that it supports their point of view.

    Some people are balanced here, few actually understanding this, and others just assume they're the most intelligent being and that anything which doesn't make sense to them isn't true. It's good to think, try thinking about your own existence for a bit without reducing everything to flawed formulas.
    Yeah balanced means sharing your attitude. Good definition man. Using zero drugs, for example, is not being balanced, it's using cannabis instead heroine...

    Now you're behaving like a classical believer who also believe (of course) that his position is "morally superior" to those of non-believers. You can trumpet your "knowledge" as correct (you started this debate whereas I tried to avoid it), but if other people argument why they think you're wrong then they've an "arrogant nature".

    Those "flawed formulas" work, something you cannot say about your argumentation. In fact I see no more in it than "I don't care about lack of proofs" something not very far from believing in Sancta.

    And something that apparently you didn't notice: there's a difference between a "negative belief" and a disbelief. The Paragraph you apparently didn't understand
    Not sure where you're going with this.
    showed how the core of my opinion is a disbelief, not a negative belief.

    It's alright. Thinking isn't always productive in any sense, anyway. I feel free to think about what's most important to think about, and believe in what's most important to believe in. There's a major difference for me personally, and I'm still learning this difference.
    Your method implies a strong deffense of subjectivity. I do not agree with this. It usually ends with its user trying to "be right" instead trying to know (as much as possible, or course).

    Anyway I stop here regardless your potential future answer:
    1) I tried to avoid this debate several times (before and after your participation). But it's fair that I could answer an argumentation against what I wrote as a simple opinion.
    2) You have fallen in a typical "morally superior" position.
    3) You seem to advocate for the validity of faith. There is no argumentation which can convince an user in that situation. That's why I see it so dangerous and harmful.
    4) All I can say is basically in the video.
    5) We're derailing this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    If you cannot know then you cannot know, so believing in something (regardless concrete belief) as if you can know is simply absurd. I still wonder why so many people does not notice this.
    Call it what you want. Everything comes down to belief. Whether you believe the sky is gray or that Tom Cruise is God, or whether you believe that you can really know something, knowledge is sober belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Now you're behaving like a classical believer who also believe (of course) that his position is "morally superior" to those of non-believers. You can trumpet your "knowledge" as correct (you started this debate whereas I tried to avoid it), but if other people argument why they think you're wrong then they've an "arrogant nature".
    No, in this case I just stated the reasonable observation that many people don't want to acknowledge the limitations of the human brain extensively. All of us live our lives going in tiny circles larger than our egos, without being conscious of it, even myself. I never called myself morally superior to anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    And something that apparently you didn't notice: there's a difference between a "negative belief" and a disbelief. The Paragraph you apparently didn't understand

    showed how the core of my opinion is a disbelief, not a negative belief.
    I wasn't referring to that, but to your oversimplification of the meaning of 'free will' versus it's empirically intended meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Your method implies a strong deffense of subjectivity. I do not agree with this. It usually ends with its user trying to "be right" instead trying to know (as much as possible, or course).
    Subjectivity is also a human quality which should be acknowledged, else you will just lose yourself in the mist of futility. I just said that "I'm still trying to learn this," so I'd hope that I'm not being obstinate more than anyone else is.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Those "flawed formulas" work, something you cannot say about your argumentation. In fact I see no more in it than "I don't care about lack of proofs" something not very far from believing in Sancta.
    Good luck with that then.

  34. #34
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    I thought about answering these, and then I realized that
    I already have previously and I hate to be redundant.

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    1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?
    I'm selfish; inwardly hopeful about things but I never share that and people might say I'm quite negative; I feel like I'm always searching for my "actual" self; there are things I love I can't express; I feel like I've been hollowed out inside.

    2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.
    Well I think being less selfish might benefit me (I almost think my selfishness is a way I protect myself from others or having to deal with others so I wear it proudly like some thick skin, showing it off, and feel safe in being unapproachable). As might expressing my inner hope more to myself because it's often kind of buried or shrouded. Maybe if I spent less time "searching" for my "actual self" and more time actually doing things in life I'd discover more about myself than I do in my constant mulling it over (but really I feel sometimes thrown away from myself around others so I feel it's a no-win). I've actually recently dedicated a journal to trying to express the things I love as they arise. I need to take better care of myself because I'm falling apart, but I don't know how.

    3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?
    I might say that this right now is the purpose. I was thinking recently that it takes the creation of the entire universe to produce enough chances for a single moment of consciousness (the kind of consciousness we're capable of experiencing if we put our minds to it). I mean if you think about just a single moment of pure consciousness being experienced by "someone" and you start with nothing... how would you manufacture that... You'd have to create all of this just to get that. Anyway I think the ability to reflect on the point of our lives is a priceless treasure.

    However, I'd also point out that there is no one answer to this question obviously and that different people (and the same person at different points in their lives) will have different answers, and that I'm sure many have written on this topic as it can be one of the big philosophical questions that humans seek answers to, especially as certain times in their lives. I guess this might inspire me to look up some reading material on this matter and share it (of course it would have to be worked down to a five-year-old level. But I think I would use all questions as opportunities to provide information and also somewhat encourage the kid to reach their own conclusions, well although you'll never reach a final one, but I guess it's the process and all that counts).

    My other general feeling about this question is that there isn't a point. Although a person can certainly create their own points when they feel like it.

    4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

    Um... I think I in general think that self-esteem and self-confidence are the most important thing... once one has these they can do anything and looking back at my own life, I think most of my "failures" result from a lack of these things. I mean you can dispense with so many things if you just have this because the other things can be compensated for--but they can't compensate for a hole inside one where they doubt themselves or don't think they can do it or are afraid they can't do it so they don't try, etc. But I don't think I'd say all this to a child. Maybe I would. I mean a more general answer is the need to have a relationship with oneself and be true to oneself (but I don't feel messages from Disney movies and what not of "be yourself" have ever had any profound impact on me). I think that mostly children need guidance in the actual critical moments of their lives especially, because your choices in moments build the future of what you are (especially in terms of what you try and what you don't). So if a more mindful adult is always there to discuss various situations the child encounters as they come up the child can be guided to make choices that will help them later (but it must still be the child's choice, imo... it's guiding not dictating... although sometimes parents must dictate... but my strategy would be to discuss situations to invite the child to think about them and problem-solve). Anyway courage can be cultivated this way. Of course I wouldn't say any of that either. Another issue is the answer would be different depending on who the child is, possibly. I just feel you need a core of strength. I can't answer this question.

    5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year?
    I'd probably spend it with my family as much as possible. Somehow I don't think I'd end up making a grand list of all the things I maybe thought at some time I wanted to do and cram as many of them in as possible. I'd also spend the time coming to terms with myself and my losses (preparing for death, as I feel this is very important). I would probably try to contact a lot of the people I think about but never talk to, some from long ago... and maybe say goodbye and try to articulate what they meant to me. But I would of course feel guilty for never doing anything to maintain contact. I might (if possible) take trips to some of the places I used to live if I felt it was conducive to my preparation. I'd probably grieve a lot about the ways I feel I've wasted my life by not doing anything. (Also I'd probably never believe this was guaranteed for sure... but that it seemed it might happen supposedly... and that actually would change everything... it would depend largely on what exactly I got this guarantee from... my answer was more pretending it was somehow a given like "God came down from the heavens and declared it"... but if an almighty power declared it there's always the possibility they're lying for their own reasons... their intentions would be called into question by my mind).

    6. Why aren't you doing this now?
    Grieving the end of my life? Well in a way I am... I spend more time thinking about my end, my doom, my death than in actually facing life. So I guess I'd have to expand this to say "and then what if after a year you were told you weren't going to die after all and none of that was real, then what would you do?" to answer this. In any case I think that I'm trapped in my own inertia from day to day... everything small thing to do is a big effort and this is why I just want to drop out of society. I honestly feel like it's too hard.

    7. What do you really want in your truest self?
    Nothing? I just don't feel like I want anything other than just the freedom I guess to do what I feel like when I feel like it. Um. But I doubt I'd be satisfied with that either. The thing is that I'll never be satisfied. I feel life is suffering and will always be so no matter what the circumstances. Although I think I would like to be able to take everything in me and put it outside of me in a concrete form (to create). To express it. I feel trapped unable to work on this because I've just positioned myself so badly in every way (work, energy, etc.). But maybe that's not the answer either. I can't answer this question.

    8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?
    I never know what I 'really want' so I just can't answer this.

    9. What are your defense mechanisms?
    I'm not sure... but they usually rear up when I feel someone else is imposing things on me. They also rear up sometimes if there are things I don't want to acknowledge or believe about myself. I would need to think about this more because often they're disguised so as not to appear as defense mechanisms, especially not to others. That way others can't point them out. It's all very crafty.

    10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?
    Self-discipline... really it all (they all) stem from this. But of course in general... eating right, exercising, getting enough sleep, having friendships so one isn't isolating themselves, not engaging in practices that are just going to get one in trouble (like petty crime or something), being able to stop and see what one is doing and evaluate so not to be caught in some string of cause and effect that if you could just think about it you wouldn't want to be in it, I don't know.

    11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?
    Silent and relaxed I suppose, and tuning out the situation because nothing's happening in it so I can ignore it all. There's nothing outside so all attention is inside.

    12. What does your heart feel like it needs and wants?
    ??? I can answer this question if I'm drunk.

    13. What condition is your heart in right now?
    saddened, hurt, worried, empathetic towards characters in stories I've been thinking about... cough, feels love or something like love... perhaps at peace... i don't really understand because I think I've been feeling kind of angry lately, but it's not there right now... I wonder where it went and how long it's been gone. I don't feel like anything's been resolved... maybe it can be written off as something simple like PMS.

    14. What does your head say it needs and wants?
    my head says I need to do more towards getting a different job or switching paths... that I need to read more about this and spend less time on things like this topic instead of what I would be better spending my time on.

    15. What condition is your mind in right now?
    tired and drained but stimulated against it.

    16. What does your body say it needs and wants?
    to sit up straighter, to go to the bathroom, that my legs hurt

    17. What is the condition of your body right now?
    poor

    18. Which do you trust the most in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    head I suppose and general intuition

    19. Which do you trust the least in making an important decision between your head, body, and heart? Why?
    head i suppose (it's a blessing and a curse)

    20. What is your predominant fault?
    not knowing how to deal with people perhaps... this is the wrong answer though because it stems from something else... it's a symptom of something else. And I don't know how to treat the question if it's a "fault"... I mean is this like an Achilles' heal? He couldn't help that. Is it something I created? Actually here's a better answer: fear. It's an inner weakness that controls a lot of my actions (or lack of actions) in one way or another. But still that's not right either. Perhaps it's my inward evil-ness that I sense. But actually when I've really thoroughly thought over that I seem to discover every time that it isn't real. I am lazy and lack self-discipline and currently I have zero work ethic. Oh fuck it.

    21. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    Have I ever felt this? I've had false over-riding feelings of being "one with the world" as though my brain is high on its own chemistry. But it doesn't feel real.

    22. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?
    Well I often feel this way. I just often feel I can't find a center that is me. As for other people, I feel largely disconnected from most of them, like they're not even there. People in my head, characters in stories and movies are more real to me than most people.

    23. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.
    The need to keep myself stimulated and not bored. I try to reach a certain concentration of the feeling of mental stimulation/concentration and I just want to stay in it and not be interrupted or taken from it. But it's a distraction and is in the way. And I can't leave it when I'm in it. Or rather it takes a long time. Internet addiction actually plays well with this.

    24. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?
    Quit my job. Thank god it's vanishing because it will make me do something else.

    25. What do you need in your life to face your fears?
    Having no other choice.

    26. What is your own personal mission statement?
    lame--I refuse to make a "personal mission statement".

  36. #36
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    oh loki, I love you.

    and, these are good questions. I may answer later.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    is it type related that i'm bothered by these questions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    is it type related that i'm bothered by these questions?
    Ask your doctor if you're corn-intolerant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    is it type related that i'm bothered by these questions?
    lol what's the problem? you don't have to answer if you don't wanna.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    i dont think the questions should assassinated or ignored or anything. they just bother me so i'm not going to answer them lol. i'm just treating my personal sentiments as relevant, thats all carry on

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