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Thread: Id and Super-Id: What are the differences?

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    Default Id and Super-Id: What are the differences?

    So I think that I have a pretty solid understanding of how Base, Creative, Role, and Vulnerable functions are all differentiated, but right now, I have a rather large concern: what are the differences between Suggestive and Hidden Agenda functions, and also what are the differences between the Ignoring and Demonstrative functions?

    I've been treating these two sets of functional ordering as exactly the same thing, basically, and I want to know what makes them different. How, for instance, does Te-suggestive differ from Te-HA? Ne-Ignoring and Ne-Demonstrative? What emphasis does the ordering give to these elements?
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    Super-Id
    Suggestive
    Accepting/Experience/Weak/Contact/Valued/Evaluatory/Cautious

    Mobilizing
    Producing/Experience+Norms/Weak/Inert/Valued/Situational/Bold

    Id
    Ignoring
    Accepting/Experience+Norms+Standards/Strong/Inert/Subdued/Situational/Cautious

    Demonstrative
    Producing/Experience+Norms+Standards+Time/Strong/Contact/Subdued/Evaluatory/Bold
    (i)NTFS

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    May I draw your particular attention to the following from Wikisocion...

    Inert and contact
    Inert functions (1, 4, 6, 7) are those that do not integrate information from the environment; thus, the strength of these functions remain the way they are. A person does not seek guidance in these areas as they comprise the core of their natural strengths and weaknesses.

    Inert functions 1 and 4 are a part of the mental ring; these are essentially one's most confident strengths (base function) and debilitating weaknesses (point of least resistance). It is for this reason that strong judgments about these aspects of reality are inadvertently made.

    Inert functions 6 and 7 are in the vital ring of a person's psyche. An individual is hardly aware of how these functions are used. The mobilizing function is inert since its primary mechanism is to mobilize one's creative function into action. Thus one's ability to use it does not become much stronger throughout life. The ignoring function is inert because it is part of a person's natural strength, just like the base function. Conscious information is limited here in favor of the leading function.

    Contact functions (2, 3, 5, 8) are essentially how we touch upon the environment; they adapt and integrate new experiences from the environment. These are capable of being improved over time (through ability or simply new understandings).

    Contact functions 2 and 3 are in the mental ring. The creative function produces new information out of what is accepted by the base function. This is literally how we uniquely 'make contact' with the world. This has potential to grow stronger as a conscious element since it's the Ego's connection to reality. In the role function, however, information from the environment is weakly accepted situationally, and is subdued since it opposes the base function's approach. Although it cannot truly grow in strength, where it does grow is within the individual's subjective understanding of that aspect of reality.

    Contact functions 5 and 8 are in the vital ring and strive to unconsciously make contact with the environment. This is indefinitely true of the suggestive function. Since it complements the base function, people unknowingly seek information related to it from the environment to strengthen its ability. It is theoretically the only way one can improve on their leading function. The demonstrative function makes contact with one's environment very unconsciously; it acts with the conscious leading function to produce one's unique worldview, being just as strong as the base function.
    ...this...

    Evaluatory and situational
    Evaluatory functions are the strongest (1 and 8) and weakest (4 and 5) functions of a person's psyche; strong judgments about areas that involve these functions are made.

    Accepting-evaluatory functions, specifically the base and suggestive, are valued by the individual. Evaluations made here are taken seriously, as they compose the center of one's personality. In the leading function lies the core of their evaluations and decisions and so remains firmly inert; information accepted in the complementary suggestive function is also evaluated by an individual, but being weak and still yet valued, it strives to make contact with the environment to develop.

    Producing-evaluatory functions are subdued by the individual; evaluations are produced here only when information cannot be processed by valued accepting functions and are instead processed by our subdued accepting functions. Since the information produced in these areas are subdued, evaluations are generally negative but nonetheless firm. This is especially true of the vulnerable function. As for the demonstrative function, evaluations are produced in favor of one's creative function, so it is taken less seriously even though an individual is quite sophisticated in that area.

    Situational functions are accessed on a case-by-case basis, so decisions and judgments made in these areas are more or less inclined to remain constant.

    Accepting-situational functions (3 and 7) are subdued and only accept information in cases where the data accepted cannot be confidently evaluated by one's valued accepting functions. In the role function, information is accepted consciously but is subdued as it opposes the base function. It's also a contact function, which is why it is seen as somewhat of an importance to an individual, but definitely not emphasized. In the ignoring function, information is accepted even moreso on a situational basis because a person is strong in this area but neglects it over their preferred strength in the base function. Information is mostly ignored here and instead accepted by one's suggestive function.

    Producing-situational functions (2 and 6) are situational since they only produce information that has been accepted by our valued-evaluatory functions. One's creative function produces strong and valued information that must make contact with the environment for their ego to be heard. However, new information is only produced in situations the base function can accept information. One's mobilizing function is inert, weak and valued, so information produced here isn't quite understood consciously but still acts as a driver for the creative function.

    Understanding this function dichotomy is integral in fully realizing how types metabolize information as it forms the "information pathway" that connects our Model A together.


    ...and this...

    Bold and cautious
    Bold functions are used more freely than cautious functions, sometimes even in a way that makes a subdued function more heavily used than a valued function (e.g. role and suggestive functions). This may be considered an aspect of function strength.
    Last edited by pianosinger; 02-03-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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    [quote]How, for instance, does Te-suggestive differ from Te-HA?

    Mobilizing
    Producing/Experience+Norms/Weak/Inert/Valued/Situational/Bold
    If Te is my Mobilizing function (which it is), that means it is focused on Producing, is 2-dimensional, is weak, is not likely to be "strengthened" (inert) and I am unlikely to seek help with this function, is valued,
    "information produced here isn't quite understood consciously but still acts as a driver for the creative function" , and I am bold in my use of Te.

    Suggestive
    Accepting/Experience/Weak/Contact/Valued/Evaluatory/Cautious
    If Te is my Suggestive function, that means it is focused on Accepting, is 1-dimensional, weak, seeks to be "strengthened" (contanct), is valued, evaluations made here are taken seriously, one typically seeks contact with the environment and others to develop understanding of this function, and is cautious.

    Something I will point out here from personal experience: for a short time on these forums, I was thinking that maybe I was Te-Base. Some people were suggesting Si-Base, too, but while I could see Te-Base as a possibility, I just could not see myself as that strong in Si. Now I see why...because The HA in some circumstances can "masquerade" as an Ego function, but it is much less likely that the Suggestive function will seek to do so.

    By the same token, one is probably also much more likely to have their Demonstrative function mistaken for an Ego function than they are to have their Ignoring function mistaken as such, mostly thanks to the Bold vs. Cautious dichotomy.
    Last edited by pianosinger; 02-03-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

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    Thanks guys. That's... rather a lot to take in all at once, but thank you for clearing that up.
    4w5 sp/sx

    Please, direct all questioning of my self-typing to this thread. Thank you.

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