What's going on with this conversation?

[Slacker]

Her: We got a lot more snow than you.
Me: How do you know? You haven't been out here.
Her: We have tons of snow.
Me: Well we don't have tons. How much did you get?
Her: I don't know exactly but at least a couple of feet.
Me: Oh, well that is a lot. Let me check to see just how much your town got.

(checking online)

Me: According to the meterologist, your town got 11 inches and my town got 13 inches.
Her: That isn't right. We got lots more snow than you.
Me: Well we must have gotten within a couple inches of the same amount anyway. Nobody got more than about 14 inches.
Her: We got lots more than 14 inches. It's up to 3 feet in some places.
Me: We they don't count snow drifts when they figure how much snow you got. We have areas drifted up over 3 feet too.
Her: We got lots more than 11 inches.

OK so what the heck? Is this a competition over how much snow we got? And why would she think she has way more than was measured? This conversation confuses me. Weak Se, weak Te, but specifics? I'm pretty sure I know her type but I don't want to influence anyone as to what might be going on function-wise here, so I won't say yet. I could be convinced that I'm wrong about her type.

[Creepy-male]

Well I look at this as a split between facts/logic (Te) and experience/observation (Se)

She probably has seen areas where there is 3 feet of snow and is excited about it and wants to tell someone, maybe she is embellishing the truth to make it sound interesting, saying she got way more than you did, making it sound very significant, maybe she isn't embellishing but that's how she sees it, or maybe she is competing with you passive aggressively... but is a competition about who got the most snow even partly significant in the least?

I think she is focusing on her experience of the snow, seeing it 3 feet, sounds Se

You however are focusing on Te, the statistics of the snowfall, and using that to show that you actually got more. If it were a competition, you just decided to also one up her, whether intentionally or not.

But I can't imagine it being a competition, and if it is, I think you might as well just roll your eyes and let her be the champion of being snowed on, and save the real debates for more important and desirable things.

[Bardia]

The conversation makes her seem either dumb, in competition with you over something dumb, or both. Seems like she feels a need to be correct.

[pianosinger]

With Bardia. Your friend seems kinda...not...all...there...

[Capitalist Pig]

Your friend is annoying.

Also, I just want to point out that I got a lot less snow than you. 0 inches, bitches.

[Creepy-male]

Sounds like "Her" is a Te PoLR. I've had discussions like that with IEI acquaintances, and even been in the defensive position with a single SLE on various occasions.

[Beautiful sky]

OK so what the heck? Is this a competition over how much snow we got? And why would she think she has way more than was measured? This conversation confuses me. Weak Se, weak Te, but specifics? I'm pretty sure I know her type but I don't want to influence anyone as to what might be going on function-wise here, so I won't say yet. I could be convinced that I'm wrong about her type.

LOL
no it's not competition; it's ignoring; she's not listening to you and just stating that she got a lot of snow and you're listening to her and trying to correct and amend the illusionary effect of the IM.

[silverchris9]

Friend = Beta NF or SEI. I've had this exact conversation, to my embarrassment. Except one time it was about whether Dexter or Spartacus was a better show (and I had never watched Spartacusso I had no real data). But that time my Ti-HA ran circles around my little brother's Te-HA. And, or course, I was right.

But the point is that anecdotal snatches of something someone thought they heard and generalization (this is more snow than I've ever seen, so it must be the MOST SNOW EVAR!) over facts is very Te-polr. I'd go for Beta NF.

[Beautiful sky]

I think ESE. Strong Fe, strong Se, weak logics.

That was another one of my considerations. What is your reasoning for the answer? But, how can I have stronger logic then ESE? I thought perhaps they would have stronger logic then myself.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm thinking Fe + Se because of enthusiasm (Fe) and experience (Se).

When Fe is used, ESEs don't see Te - one excludes the other, to a large degree. Also ESEs don't value Te.

In this case, I'm guessing her friend is inside an enthusiastic Fe + Se experience, totally ignoring Te, wanting feedback on what she sees. She probably feels Mariella is the one trying to make competition, by bringing up her own snow, instead of just giving feedback on the friend's experience.

I also base the guess on experiences I've had with ESEs being that way.

YES!

[force my hand]

My sister is very much like this - facts are bent to support emotional impact. How much snow fell is largely irrelevant because what matters is that it was a special experience, and therefore should be a shared experience. When someone questions her factual accuracy, she becomes obstinant; her emotional house of cards is threatened by any dynamism. There is just no way you got more snow than her because you're missing the point, so the effective logic goes.

[Slacker]

So here'e the thing. She's my sister. Back when I was a newbie here, Expat helped me type her as EII, but she's the family member whose typing I've always had the least confidence in, and it's because of conversations like this. If we're mirrors, shouldn't we be able to communicate with each other better? Shouldn't we not drive each other crazy with these wacky disagreements? I wish Expat were still around because it's possible I didn't describe her well and I'd like to hear what he thinks of this conversation. It seems to me like she's having big, big problems with Te and can't possibly value it, and it seems like she's weak but values Se based on that conversation. But I've thought she was EII.

So the issue with Beta NF and SEI is that she seems close to my LIE mom, though mom does get exasperated with her too sometimes, but she and my EIE dad have some trouble getting along. Family dynamics can be odd and can cloud expected relations to some extent I guess, but anyway that's the other issue. Her typing was based to a pretty good extent on her relationships with our parents.

I will say she has some emotional problems that are not type related and could make figuring her out more complicated.

[Beautiful sky]

No, in classical socionics as discussed in socioniko.net, mirror relations present poor communication problems, misunderstandings, and such because one needs or want's more communication to settle on a thought, this being the perceptual type, because perceptual types keep things open not trusting that every bit of information is a road to somewhere concrete while the conceptual type, in this case, your sister, being a J type, is much more likely to settle or make conclusions faster then you do. This is also where you and I run into problems. I am much more likely to type quickly, while you take longer to observe the general process (a characteristic of perception).

[Slacker]

Oh you remind me of her for sure, and that is the only thing making me think you could be EII. You and I have the same communication problems and argue in the same way that I argue with my sister. I think you and she are very similar.

[Beautiful sky]

You also have misunderstandings with Minde. I read an old post where she pointed out, "no, you must have misunderstood me." That sparked the mirror relation communication problem and relation that I observed between you two.

[Aiss]

Well, put yourself in her place. You got lots of snow, something to talk about, a pretext to communicate, so you call your sister and want to tell her all about it... only to find out she has no intention of playing along and being adequately impressed and awwwwing at your predicament, but instead checks *facts*. Must be annoying.




That's how I imagine Fe-egos, anyway.

[Beautiful sky]

Oh you remind me of her for sure, and that is the only thing making me think you could be EII. You and I have the same communication problems and argue in the same way that I argue with my sister. I think you and she are very similar.

Because you're a Te valuer, I believe that Te observes similarity between two objects/people. DJ does this with me. He picks another girl and says "you look the same" and other unimportant observations that he likes to point out to me.

[Slacker]

DJ isn't a Te valuer. Keep your retyping of people to threads for that purpose, and don't use similarities to a self-typed LSI to prove someone is a Te valuer.

[Beautiful sky]

DJ isn't a Te valuer. Keep your retyping of people to threads for that purpose, and don't use similarities to a self-typed LSI to prove someone is a Te valuer.

you don't have to settle on this thought, but I do want to you take a few minutes to think about it, as a favor. Wouldn't you think an LSE would give people advice about how to do things? And, don't you find examples where Dj tells people how to do things?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Sounds like "Her" is a Te PoLR. I've had discussions like that with IEI acquaintances, and even been in the defensive position with a single SLE on various occasions.

Oh honestly Gulanzon. No....just no. So one (supposedly) IEI pissed you off, and you objectively have been attacking the whole bunch since. I defended you before in the past, but now you're just being silly.

Y'all are cuckoo for cocoa flakes up in this mug.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Okay this is gonna sound blunt but:

Your friend pissed you off because she was lying and not being truthful. It has NOTHING to do with types, okay? Anybody would be upset at that exchange.

And well I guess you guys can analyze this socionically because it's a socionics forum but I think it's pretty retarded.

This conversation confuses me. Weak Se, weak Te, but specifics?

IT'S NOT WEAK TE. STOP THAT. STOP THE ABUSE ON IEIS. IT'S MAKING ME THROAT FUCK YOU VIOLENTLY WITH A SLEDGEHAMMER. YOU'RE JUST BEING A TYPICAL MIDWESTERN FEMALE THAT NEEDS MORE REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES. AND GUESS WHAT, I'M THE SAME WAY.

You're just mad at your friend because she was being rawly INcorrect about something.

Why does it confuse you? She made you angry because she was being stupid and incorrect. You're not confused, you're mad. But because you're from michigan you don't know how to properly lash that out on others, so you internalize it and develop a neurosis on it on online message boards.

(and I'm not being an ass. I'm showing tough love, okay?)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Friend = Beta NF or SEI. I've had this exact conversation, to my embarrassment. Except one time it was about whether Dexter or Spartacus was a better show (and I had never watched Spartacusso I had no real data). But that time my Ti-HA ran circles around my little brother's Te-HA. And, or course, I was right.

Chris. Why the fuck are you feeding this poor, midwestern housewife's delusions? You had some good posts lately but now you're just derailing yourself. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Cyrano]

Give it a week and the snow will have melted.

[Slacker]

I don't know what you're getting on about, BnD. I'm not deluded or particularly upset about it. Just wondering if I have her mistyped. This isn't a big deal.

What do you think I'm deluded about, though?

[Marie84]

She comes across as devaluing both and and possibly valuing in her communication style there, like she's trying to one-up you and without any actual evidence to support it. That is, she sounds more concerned about "winning" than making sure she is actually "right"

fwiw I find that absolutist manner of speaking extremely frustrating to deal with in people largely because it makes me suspicious of "fake-Te" like, "are they saying this so assertively because they 'know', or are they more concerned about wanting to be seen as knowledgeable?"

Oh honestly Gulanzon. No....just no. So one (supposedly) IEI pissed you off, and you objectively have been attacking the whole bunch since. I defended you before in the past, but now you're just being silly.

Y'all are cuckoo for cocoa flakes up in this mug.

I don't think that was really an attack, he was just pointing out an observation, and in all fairness he self-types as Te PoLR himself.

[Capitalist Pig]

Y'all are cuckoo for cocoa flakes up in this mug.

It's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[Creepy-male]

Oh honestly Gulanzon. No....just no. So one (supposedly) IEI pissed you off, and you objectively have been attacking the whole bunch since. I defended you before in the past, but now you're just being silly.

I think you're reading too much into things. Ignoring some sort of logical thing is a consistent pattern I've seen myself do, IEIs do (plural! Not just "That one guy I'm using to represent all of every single IEI ever do"), and IEEs do (but in a different way).

Fine, though, maybe the three who have done this were all really, really stubborn, stupid, or somehow in some other way bad examples. Who knows! I describe patterns in my experience, feel free to take them with a grain of salt.

[Bardia]

For what its worth, this sounds like a conversation I could have had with my Mom. I haven't totally decided between ESI and ESE but I find myself leaning more and more towards ESE. We often argue about a situation or topic with her giving her opinion and me giving facts to dispute it and usually ends with her just saying stop arguing with me. She doesn't seem to understand that I think she is wrong and I am trying to set her straight and if I am arguing it takes 2 to argue. She also has emotional problems so I don't know how that might tie in.

[Creepy-male]

She comes across as devaluing both and and possibly valuing in her communication style there, like she's trying to one-up you and without any actual evidence to support it. That is, she sounds more concerned about "winning" than making sure she is actually "right"

I think the whole argument is stupid, who the fuck cares who got more snow, if she came up to me all competitive and was like "WE GOT MORE SNOW", I'd just stare at her for a second and say "good for you" in a dry unimpressed manner and pause a little then go about my business.

Lol going to the weather service would seem like to me a waste of time.

Also while I don't like competitive people who go around trying to make everything a competition I don't like people who go around and have the attitude of "ACCEPT DEFEAT", and go out of their way to correct/disprove people and then force this into them, like they get a strange satisfaction out of correcting people in that calm cool confident "expert" manner. I mean even if she is a complete douche, no one likes admitting they are wrong. No one likes it, its not something people wake up and say "oh wow if I'm lucky today, I'll have to admit I was wrong about that one thing!", and everyone is wrong, whether intentionally or not about at least one thing. And its not like once you fuck something up you can really defend yourself once they expose you, are pretty much at their mercy and people use that to humiliate you further and make you look dumb to make themselves feel smarter. It's actually pretty typical, but a real pro can correct you and make a joke of it, or make you look sympathetic or smarter. Maybe its personal bias but I'd rather have someone point out those small things I was wrong about in a comical/sympathetic manner than an "accept defeat" manner. And the fact I have a better attitude of being corrected in that manner ultimately makes it a more productive strategy because that better attitude allows me to learn more, which ultimately is the reason why you would correct someone, to help them learn their mistakes, and not to feel sly and better than them.

[Slacker]

I wasn't trying to correct her. She lives in an area that often gets a lot more lake effect snow than we get, so it was possible she could have had that much, and I was wondering just how much that area had gotten so I could picture it. I was surprised we'd gotten about the same amount of snow.

[EyeSeeCold]

Y'all are cuckoo for cocoa flakes up in this mug.

It's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

lmao

wtf are cocoa flakes

[Creepy-male]

I wasn't trying to correct her. She lives in an area that often gets a lot more lake effect snow than we get, so it was possible she could have had that much, and I was wondering just how much that area had gotten so I could picture it. I was surprised we'd gotten about the same amount of snow.

Yea well I wasn't specifically criticizing you, I was just stating I think the whole entire thing was stupid, as in its a stupid thing to fight/compete about.

I just hate people who compete about stupid stuff, especially aggressive drivers in traffic. I remember one time I was driving down a lane of traffic in a parking lot, and there were a bunch of roads that fed into this lane, but they all had stop signs and had to yield. This one guy was waiting at one of these. The guy in front of me took a left turn onto one of these feeder lanes, and then afterwards I drove forward, but the guy waiting at the stop sign yield thought that since that guy turned he deserved to go because there was a small break in the flow of traffic, he rolled forward just a little but I kept going because it was my right of way and he had to yield to me. Not realizing this he honked at me, realizing he was actually wrong to go I honked him back, less for the self-satisfaction and more out of the ideal that he would take a second to think why I honked back and realize he in fact had to yield to me... this did not occur he simply honked back at me, then drove off all angry like I had killed his first born child. The thing was that regardless of the fact I was right, there was no convincing this guy, he wasn't interested in any concept of right beyond his own personal sphere and thats why he didn't think twice, because he didn't want to wait and that was all he fucking cared about. I left the situation less feeling personally slighted but feeling more like "fuck traffic" because traffic is loaded with people who compete about stupid stuff..... and I hate competing about stupid stuff.