View Poll Results: What was the sociotype of Carl Jung?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    2 4.76%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    13 30.95%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    1 2.38%
  • IEI (INFp)

    8 19.05%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    2 4.76%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    12 28.57%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    1 2.38%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    3 7.14%
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Thread: Carl Jung's type

  1. #1

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    I have never posted a video link prior to my present post so I'm uncertain the link will not break. Putting aside all doubts, here is an interview of the man himself. Honestly I'm suspending judgement. When he talks about feeling 'love at first sight' I have to question that can indicate INTP hidden agenda to love but by your own standard I do not think that is clear evidence.



    the next video is his view on death of the body but he posits the psyche remains unrecognizable prior to death. His view of death is reminisent of Socrates discussion of life, death, pleasure and pain in the Crito. A common pre-sentiment toward death is fear but Carl Jung suggests to embrace death without fear. Socrates held such a view but for different reasons. Socrates argued the immortality of the soul based upon protagathorian logic. I'm undecided on how to best interpret that. Socrates is regarded as a INTP on ricksocionics.com but Plato is an INTP according to typelogic which utilizes the myers-briggs model so after converting that to socionics model his type is INTJ.

    As a lasting point his facial expressions seem sparce, and he has the arch eyebrows and boneless cheeks best befitting the physical descrption of INTJ. However he has a protruding nose which is a facial feature of INTP.

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    Can we please get back to this?

    I would like to see if anyone can pose a good argument of why Carl Jung would be ESTp.

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    Ni + Ti
    Ni > Ne
    Ti > Te

    IEI
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Pookie that's a nice suggestion but why?

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    He built a system internally that was based on a collective of inferences, and tried to balance out the system by doing his best to have none of the components in the system overlap in any but intended ways. All of this while working with a minute amount of facts, and not really producing any real facts himself. All that makes me strongly believe Ti>Te. And i can attempt to explain the Ni, maybe at a later point, i just know that i work in a similar manner internally.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    He built a system internally that was based on a collective of inferences, and tried to balance out the system by doing his best to have none of the components in the system overlap in any but intended ways. All of this while working with a minute amount of facts, and not really producing any real facts himself. All that makes me strongly believe Ti>Te. And i can attempt to explain the Ni, maybe at a later point, i just know that i work in a similar manner internally.
    I agree with Se/Ni valuing, as you've stated above, but I disagree with him being an introvert. What argument can you make for that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I agree with Se/Ni valuing, as you've stated above, but I disagree with him being an introvert. What argument can you make for that?
    To be able to create this kind of thing,singlehandedly, and not get exhausted by the task doesnt seem likely for someone with an introverted creative function. To me it speaks of someone who gets charged/energized by introspection, which is typical of an introverted base function.

    And also, Dynamics. The whole creation was a means of describing intertype dynamics and the dynamics within the human psyche. I don't honestly think a static type could come up with this without it coming across in a much more reductive and seperated manner. I could be wrong about the I, but i know i'm not wrong about the dynamic portion, so if Jung was indeed an E, i think you'd have to argue that he was an EJ
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-29-2014 at 01:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    To be able to create this kind of thing,singlehandedly, and not get exhausted by the task doesnt seem likely for someone with an introverted creative function. To me it speaks of someone who gets charged/energized by introspection, which is typical of an introverted base function.

    And also, Dynamics. The whole creation was a means of describing intertype dynamics and the dynamics within the human psyche. I don't honestly think a static type could come up with this without it coming across in a much more reductive and seperated manner. I could be wrong about the I, but i know i'm not wrong about the dynamic portion, so if Jung was indeed an E, i think you'd have to argue that he was an EJ
    He wasn't gathering his material from inside of himself.

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    I type Carl Jung ESTp.

    I type Sigmund Freud ISTp.

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    LII obviously; although I've argued LSI before, I don't believe he is. He's way too big of a wacko to be LSI lol......

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    Pookie makes a good case for IEI, but what I really wanted to contribute is the fact that bumping this thread is totally worth it for the first page.

    I support GillyDickCam!
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I type Carl Jung ESTp.

    I type Sigmund Freud ISTp.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I am almost sure that Carl Jung is ILI or IEI (has leading Ni). The way he writes is very very pleasant and comfortable for me to read (Ashton correctly pointed out the features in Jung's writing that are probably Ni related)

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    Oh, he did it correctly, did he? Thanks for being the standard of Socionics wisdom.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    You are so lucky to have me on this forum, Gilly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    He wasn't gathering his material from inside of himself.
    Exactly, he cut open other people and got their material instead. As for his type, a long time ago I have had a brief encounter with Jung. I think I was 21 or 22 yrs old back then, but that's not the point. I found him to be quite aristocratic socionics-wise and I don't think delta which leaves beta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Exactly, he cut open other people and got their material instead. As for his type, a long time ago I have had a brief encounter with Jung. I think I was 21 or 22 yrs old back then, but that's not the point. I found him to be quite aristocratic socionics-wise and I don't think delta which leaves beta.
    Lmao
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Lmao
    Ahh, another satisfied customer. When I was little I had this squirrel that could speak like an owl. When you visit Ukraine there be very clever socionics people that can share more.

  20. #20

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    INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    He wasn't gathering his material from inside of himself.
    His theories were muchly an insight and speculations, not empirical.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  21. #21
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    I type him IEI or LII, he has strong Ni and is Ti valuing. He is an introvert.

    There are good arguments for IEI or LII.

  22. #22
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    INTj harmonizing

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I type him IEI or LII, he has strong Ni and is Ti valuing. He is an introvert.

    There are good arguments for IEI or LII.
    wuss
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  24. #24

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    As much as I typically disregard "authority" as beeing a reason to trust one's opinion... what is the actual liklihood that these "socionists" (I'm assuming they're somehow professionals in this "field") are ALL wrong?

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    Excuse my overuse of snobby internet air quotes, and misspellings which I couldn't correct because fuck my computer.

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-29-2014 at 01:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsy View Post
    Professional socionists have as much authority as professional palm readers and astrologers.
    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Higher than you might think. Many "experts" are prone to incestuously conforming their opinions to one another, esp. when a more preeminent authority among them makes a decree.
    Gross.

  30. #30

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    LII or ILI, less likely IEI

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    Jung is the functions.

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    Professional Socionists invented the system and the types. They can't be wrong about the theory by definition, at least the ones who stay relatively close to the source.

    Calling them "wrong about Socionics" is the same level of retardation as saying Jung wasn't Ti/Ne via his own self-typing: using his own system: which he created (which is arguably separate from Socionics): which was informed by his self-typing as Ti/Ne to begin with.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  34. #34
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    Based on his perception, yes, he'd be LII and Emma was dominant, maybe SEI.


    Reading his works though, he seems heavily obscured by imaginary...I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't actually correctly type himself according to his own typology - which was somewhat limited in how it was defined at any rate. I just feel I won't ever be able to have a strong opinion on his type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Based on his perception, yes, he'd be LII and Emma was dominant, maybe SEI.


    Reading his works though, he seems heavily obscured by imaginary...I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't actually correctly type himself according to his own typology - which was somewhat limited in how it was defined at any rate. I just feel I won't ever be able to have a strong opinion on his type.
    and which type was Sabina Spielrein?
    I don't totally discard the possibility of Jung being Ni dominant, because a lot of his theory is indeed in that direction - the tension of opposites in the psyche from which energy derives, the whole concept of the Shadow, synchronicity, his belief in the significance of dreams (he is said to even have shown some faith in what Tarot can do to unlock hidden content in the psyche). However Analytical Psychology is rather a Ti system. He's a complicated guess. Most LIIs have less interest in human psychology than in developing more abstract 'hard science' systems. ILIs are usually more pragmatic than that - dreams can only be indicative of some fears/wishes in the personal subconscious, but not related to a "meta" reality. Jung did have such a bent, one towards occultism and mysticism, which was one of the reasons why this relationship with Freud was severed. So of course there's still the possibility that he was a IEI with a very strong scientific background.
    Last edited by Amber; 03-23-2015 at 12:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Professional Socionists invented the system and the types. They can't be wrong about the theory by definition, at least the ones who stay relatively close to the source.

    Calling them "wrong about Socionics" is the same level of retardation as saying Jung wasn't Ti/Ne via his own self-typing: using his own system: which he created (which is arguably separate from Socionics): which was informed by his self-typing as Ti/Ne to begin with.
    jung has stated that he's characterized by intuition and thinking but never established their extro-intro orientation. this includes ILI as another self-typing.

    if i've missed the part where he spells out TiNe as his type could you provide a citation for it?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    jung has stated that he's characterized by intuition and thinking but never established their extro-intro orientation. this includes ILI as another self-typing.

    if i've missed the part where he spells out TiNe as his type could you provide a citation for it?
    He mentioned that he was primarily a Thinking type with "archaic" (meaning less developed) Intuition in both works and interviews. I think this interview might have it, but I don't recall.

    His fixation was unambiguously introverted. He had a disagreement with Freud over how the latter chose to interpret the distinction between the life and death drives. Freud believed that life manifested in outward expression of libido and death in the withdrawing of libido. Jung argued that the opposite would be true for an introvert, for whom inward withdrawal would be an expression of life, and that Freud was operating from an extraverted bias. His system of types put a stamp on this idea.

    Taken together, that makes him an Introverted Thinker. But, in fairness, he did believe that type was flexible and probably didn't take his typing to be absolute. Besides, he had bigger fish to fry than typology.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    He mentioned that he was primarily a Thinking type with "archaic" (meaning less developed) Intuition in both works and interviews. I think this interview might have it, but I don't recall.
    archaic in jung's interpretation meant "existing at deeper levels of psyche" or in other words "original" which doesn't translate to it being "less developed" but shows that he viewed his intuition as constitutional. i looked it up on ref. lexicon of jungian terms and what struck me as odd is that his own interpretation of this word had blatant parallels with his own description of introverted intuition:


    "Archaism attaches primarily to the fantasies of the unconscious, i.e., to the products of unconscious fantasy activity which reach consciousness. An image has an archaic quality when it possesses unmistakable mythological parallels. Archaic, too, are the associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy, and so is their symbolism."


    calling his intuition as "archaic" jung means an intuition that functions by "associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy" and "possesses unmistakable mythological parallels". isn't this how Ni is conceptualized in socionics? this is all too far-fetched and contradictory as an account of Ne.
    Last edited by Nevero; 05-21-2014 at 09:20 PM.

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    I always thought he was an LSI. I believe that's what he typed himself as, at least. He obviously was a introverted thinking type, based on his introverted thinking definition. It was very well written out, unlike the other types, and had many examples of both positive and neurotic manifestations of thinking and feeling in this type. Also, his creation of an abstract structure to later apply to reality screams Ti as a leading. As for the sensation as a creative, I'm not as certain, but he is most definitely either LSI or LII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    archaic in jung's interpretation meant "existing at deeper levels of psyche" or in other words "original" which doesn't translate to it being "less developed" but shows that he viewed his intuition as constitutional. i looked it up on ref. lexicon of jungian terms and what struck me as odd is that his own interpretation of this word had blatant parallels with his own description of introverted intuition:


    "Archaism attaches primarily to the fantasies of the unconscious, i.e., to the products of unconscious fantasy activity which reach consciousness. An image has an archaic quality when it possesses unmistakable mythological parallels. Archaic, too, are the associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy, and so is their symbolism."


    calling his intuition as "archaic" jung means an intuition that functions by "associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy" and "possesses unmistakable mythological parallels". isn't this how Ni is conceptualized in socionics? this is all too far-fetched and contradictory as an account of Ne.
    Well alright, maybe "less developed" is the wrong choice of words, but archaic functions are still more associated with the unconscious than waking reality. A big component of Freudian psychology is the idea that inappropriate actions or beliefs are repressed and driven into the unconscious. Jung took that a step further by suggesting that conscious extraverted functions "repress" introverted ones and vice versa.

    Model A attempts to emulate this with its distinction between conscious / unconscious blocks (superid = Animus/Anima Archetype; id = Shadow Archetype(?); both unconscious), but without the robustness of the former.

    Btw, I have no problem calling Jung something other than INTj in Socionics -- Socionics element descriptions are built around more palpable qualities that don't necessarily resonate with the more etheric functions described by him. Socionics is a mechanistic system (or attempts to be) on every level.

    Fun fact: both agree about Kant's type ( Ti-base ). The guy is as predictable as a clock or something...
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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