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Thread: Being taught by your dual

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Default Being taught by your dual

    I've noticed that whenever an SLE tries to teach me something mainly Se-related (physical sports etc.), their explanation makes no sense to me. Things that are plainly obvious to him are completely alien to me.

    Even instructions presented by Te-bases tend to be easier for me to comprehend and follow. While I am in utter awe of the SLE's natural ability to do anything physical, it's as if it's so obvious and instinctive that it's impossible for him to translate it to someone with no natural Se.

    Has anyone else had similar experiences with their dual (or maybe also semi-dual)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    The teacher I learned the most from was my dual. Unfortunately, he knew my dad, who is also a teacher and his conflictor, and they hated each other, and he didn't like me because of it. But he was still a great teacher. I loved the way he explained things, I learned a lot, and I loved listening to his lectures.

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    Every SLI teacher I've had hasnt' been that great, but there's generally been good communication and ease of understanding.

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    Yeah, it's like their mental framework is entirely different at times, and I have a difficulty understanding. They place importance in some aspects that I don't see important (yet), and it makes me think that I'm not understanding what they are saying because of it.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    One of the best teachers I've had for explaining difficult (for me) concepts has been my Delta NF dad.

    With duals... sometimes it works, sometimes there seem to be barriers. It might depend on the type of information that's getting taught.

    I agree with what Lobo said.
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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    To clarify: it's really just Se (their base, my DS) that I have issues with. My duals explain Ti and Te stuff awesomely - especially Te stuff, they're very good at reframing information others would have passed on as largely Te, in a Ti context (making sure I understand the reason I have to go through all these steps, joining the steps in some sort of order, dismissing steps that don't logically affect the final outcome too much etc.).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    No, I can't recall ever experiencing this. is typically easy to parse. Towards semi-duals there's sometimes a delay in understanding them, but that's about it.
    Lucky!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Every SLI teacher I've had hasnt' been that great, but there's generally been good communication and ease of understanding.
    Yeah, I get along with them great... I just feel kind of dumb when I don't grasp something they clearly find easy. It's like I feel like I'm disappointing them

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Yeah, it's like their mental framework is entirely different at times, and I have a difficulty understanding. They place importance in some aspects that I don't see important (yet), and it makes me think that I'm not understanding what they are saying because of it.
    Spot on with my experience with the bolded part - I haven't experienced the italicised bit yet. For me it's more like they're skipped ahead 100000 pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Overall, I find them to be wonderful teachers in getting me to see things in ways I normally would not. Sometimes I have to strain a bit to really get everything they are saying, but often I find the lessons learned rewarding and tend to be quite fond of them as people.
    Hmm. I consider maths to be quite Ti/Te with a bit of Ni (obviously different for different areas). For me as IEI, I also find SLEs to be good teachers when it's Te/Ti, but horrific when it comes to things that are very Se - sports where you can't stop and think, and are very hard-going and instinct based, like skiing and skateboarding. I'm trying to think of an example for Ni... philosophy? Creative writing?

    And yes, even if they make me fall on my face I still love them as people... just not as teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    One of the best teachers I've had for explaining difficult (for me) concepts has been my Delta NF dad.
    One of my favourite teachers so far has been an IEI professor. She made everything interesting and easy to understand - I was one of the best students in the class. I really do think identicals are the best teachers, especially if they're in a field where they can utilise their favoured functions well, and obviously if they're an expert in the field. No point learning from someone terrible at what they do, no matter the type...

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    It might depend on the type of information that's getting taught.
    Definitely in my experience - SLEs are awesome at explaining other information. Great Ti and Te explanations - the clearest teaching I've ever had. It's just Se stuff I have issues with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    (speaking as an SEE):

    ...
    How did you come across so many ILIs? On the other hand I've met and befriended over several Mirage/Duals/Semi Duals without noticing.
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    In my experience, identicals are the best teachers (esp. when you're dealing with a subject which is loaded on your base-creative, and they have more experience than you). Duals are so-so, because you can either see the mistakes in their approach, or consider what they're saying as hard to understand, thus the whole process lacks flow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I've noticed that whenever an SLE tries to teach me something mainly Se-related (physical sports etc.), their explanation makes no sense to me. Things that are plainly obvious to him are completely alien to me.

    Even instructions presented by Te-bases tend to be easier for me to comprehend and follow. While I am in utter awe of the SLE's natural ability to do anything physical, it's as if it's so obvious and instinctive that it's impossible for him to translate it to someone with no natural Se.

    Has anyone else had similar experiences with their dual (or maybe also semi-dual)?
    I thought the point of duality was not to necessarily teach your dual, but provide for them what they need, in order to support their base functions. You desire your 5th function, which your dual naturally provides very strongly as their 1st. Having a long interaction with your dual doesn't make you better at your 5th function. On the contrary, rather than focusing on correcting your weaknesses, you have more time to focus on enhancing your strengths.

    That being said, in all reality, there are certainly good/bad teachers of all types. Maybe your SLE is just bad at explaining things.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I tend to understand them fine. as for the other way round, that is another matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd
    (speaking as an SEE)
    didn't you once self-type as INTp? Just so I know whether I should ignore your posts from now on (switches from one type to it's dual are complete bogus)...

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    In my experience, identicals are the best teachers (esp. when you're dealing with a subject which is loaded on your base-creative, and they have more experience than you). Duals are so-so, because you can either see the mistakes in their approach, or consider what they're saying as hard to understand, thus the whole process lacks flow.
    That's a good description of my situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    I thought the point of duality was not to necessarily teach your dual, but provide for them what they need, in order to support their base functions.

    On the contrary, rather than focusing on correcting your weaknesses, you have more time to focus on enhancing your strengths.
    Yeah - I'd add that it also reminds you how utterly shit you are at your DS and how much you'd rather someone else do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    That being said, in all reality, there are certainly good/bad teachers of all types. Maybe your SLE is just bad at explaining things.
    Oh god, I'd love to blame him for it, but everyone else he's ever taught stuff to swears he's the best at teaching stuff ever. (Types that come to mind are ESE, SEI, SLE, LSI... so not just identicals, though I can't think of any intuitives atm. Maybe just people with strong Se.) It's a bit of a joke that I'm his only failed student.

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I tend to understand them fine. as for the other way round, that is another matter.
    Haha, cocky LIIs - has an ESE ever tried to teach you how to behave in a social situation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    An EII friend said her LSE husband taught her how to drive. She advised against it.

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    And conversely this IEI learned to drive stick from an LSE, with a little bit of Ti preparation from a website. Whereas attempts from an IEE failed.

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    SLE's tell me how to do a physical skill you have and I shall expirence this gap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Yeah - I'd add that it also reminds you how utterly shit you are at your DS and how much you'd rather someone else do it.
    Yeah, it always sucks feeling stupid and having your weakness being thrown in your face. But it's important to remember your strengths too. Aside from physical activities, there are things IEIs are good at as well. Things SLEs are bad at.

    But, of course, I know it may seem hard to find something an SLE (insert your type here ) is bad at, considering we're so awesome in every way.

    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    And conversely this IEI learned to drive stick from an LSE, with a little bit of Ti preparation from a website. Whereas attempts from an IEE failed.
    Psychological priming. If someone tried to teach you already, you mentally thought about it, and were more likely to 'like it' or 'get it' on the 2nd try. So I disregard that claim of learning from a conflictor as any useful evidence.

    But I'm thinking octopuslove may be onto something. If identicals are the best teachers, who share the same first 4 functions... most teachers, in general, teach people the way they know how... almost like forcing their students to use the same functions they used. For duals, with completely different first 4 functions (conscious), this can be extremely difficult.

    It's very easy and natural to understand your dual, but difficult, if not impossible, to replicate their thinking on your own (using your own 5th and 6th functions is not easy). Same goes for skills and activities. You understand your dual, their intentions, how it affects you, but I think actually doing something in the way they describe can be hard.

    My IEI isn't very coordinated physically, or great at mathematics or tactical strategy games like I am, but she's amazing at art... whereas I have trouble keeping a straight line, drawing stick figures even. And her ability to foresee danger and problems down the road is crucial to me, so I know how to take action and what to do to fix things. And her ability to create a friendly, warm, cheerful atmosphere, very naturally... whereas when I joke around, most of the time I piss people off, sometimes unintentionally. Which I have been doing here a lot lately on these forums... I love my dual...

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    I learn from almost every type, with exception of my conflictor INFP and some others.

    My best teachers recently: ESTP (non-judgemental, non-demanding, relaxed, yet strong), INFJ of course (perceptive, intuitive as hell, can read me like a book by my eyes, like me as I am and make me be more relaxed), ENTP makes me feel my worth, very good, ENTJ two friends, very good-hearted, similar EJ temperament, but calmer. ISTJ can be a good teacher to me up to the point where we totally disagree, but his pragmatism is often helpful. Logic 2+2=4 and their perseverance are inspiring.

    My conflicting types: ESFJ, INFP. Most types who value Te can be good to me, also sometimes types who value Ti, because ST combinations can be good. As all STs have strong capacity to understand and deal with Ti, Te, Si and Se, beta STs and delta STs can learn from each other up to a certain point. But best company definitely INFJ, though they're sometimes dumb and their heads are high in the sky, they don't irritate me, instead I want to take care of them like they're children.

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    I actually find SLE's to be awesome teachers. I tend to learn the fastest from them then I would with other types. I think it's because we have no problem with communication.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I like SLEs as teachers because they don't make me feel stupid AT ALL whereas I sometimes do have that problem with other types (which I realized is a personal issue). I do well with SEIs and IEIs also because there's that sense of understanding (as FDG pointed out, identicals can be great teachers). I think I'd be okay with EIEs (my kids' piano teacher is EIE and even though I don't take lessons from him, I watch their lessons and I'm pretty sure I'd do well with him). I think I could probably learn from most any type. You don't have to be at a particularly close psychological distance to have a teacher-student relationship, really.
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    "Psychological priming. If someone tried to teach you already, you mentally thought about it, and were more likely to 'like it' or 'get it' on the 2nd try. So I disregard that claim of learning from a conflictor as any useful evidence."

    True; which is why I mentioned it but it was the ST information I needed and the LSE could provide when I asked, and the IEE could not. The ST also knew how to set up the situation by going to a large empty parking lot, which I agreed with and had found one. The IEE knew this but didn't think we could find one that was empty. Could just be timing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    True; which is why I mentioned it but it was the ST information I needed and the LSE could provide when I asked, and the IEE could not. The ST also knew how to set up the situation by going to a large empty parking lot, which I agreed with and had found one. The IEE knew this but didn't think we could find one that was empty. Could just be timing.
    There ya go. Still doesn't count. Scientifically speaking, two independent variable invalidates the test. The sociotype of people teaching you as well as the time of day. Maybe the IEE would have thought of going to an empty parking lot, if at a better time of day, they thought more would be open?

    And not to toot my own horn, but after 3 posts in a row, saying SLEs are good teachers: None, Starfall, and redbaron, I gotta mention that I am quite good too. In university, I won the "outstanding tutor of the year" award, being the best of over 20 tutors, based upon number of people tutored, feedback of people tutored, and number of subjects taught. I help people get better grades. Also helped me a great deal, learning about the learning process.

    But yes, I never insult the intelligence level of any of my tutees. I'm patient and give them time to think to answer my questions. And you never just do the work for them: let them do the work themselves, so they get practice and confidence in doing it on their own. Show them what to do and guide them as they do it right. And then positive reinforcement doesn't hurt either. But patience is key.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    I probably should've been more clear with the OP: I'm only talking about your dual teaching you stuff related to their base function.

    I agree, SLEs are great at teaching me everything else (great communication etc) - just not stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Are all your students betas, predmoninatly IEI's?

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    The best teachers I have ever had are LII, SLE and IEE. I learnt quickly and easily with them. They were very young then, though. I guess many things, (age/drive/cultural background...) have an influence on the performance of a teacher and his/her relationship with the students.
    Ni-LIE: very good too.
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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    [quote]Haha, cocky LIIs - has an ESE ever tried to teach you how to behave in a social situation?[quote]

    I had one remind me of a few self-evident things once.

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