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Thread: Armin Meiwes, Nobel Prize Winner

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    Default Armin Meiwes, Nobel Prize Winner









    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    SJ of some kind. ESTj?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Yeah, I'd say ESTj.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Oh come on, not fair
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Nobel Prize Winner... ha! Sorry for ruining your fun, though.

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    Germany's internet cannibal
    To those living in the small German town of Rotenburg, Armin Meiwes was the perfect neighbour. His workmates liked him and his lawyer described him as a gentleman of the old school. But as Ernest Gill reports, the 42-year-old computer expert had created a dark bizarre world.




    Self confessed cannibal Armin Meiwes
    The most macabre case in recent German jurisprudence has come to an end with self-confessed gay cannibal Armin Meiwes found guilty of killing and eating a man.

    In handing down the manslaughter verdict, the court gave him an eight-and-a-half year prison term with possibility of parole.

    In a bizarre twist to what has been a bizarre story from the start, both the prosecution and the defence had argued that the amiable 42-year-old defendant is completely sane.

    The mild-mannered and well- groomed computer technician, who had a life-long "Hansel and Gretel" obsession, grew up in a woodlands village farm house next door to a self- professed witch who was once taken to court for casting death spells.

    He has spent over half of his 42 years in a rambling, half- timbered, 200-year-old farm house in central Germany in precisely the kind of setting one finds in fairy tales by the Brothers Grimm.

    As a child, he remembered his mother Waltraud Meiwes inviting the neighbour lady over for afternoon coffee, talking about spells and curses and witchcraft.

    He himself had sexual fantasies about other boys - twisted fantasies in which he would invite them home and carve them up and cook them and eat them.


    That was when a Berlin man he had met in a gay internet chat room took him up on his cyber-invitation to "let me gobble you up". The man, Bernd-Juergen Brandes, himself a computer analyst with a Berlin information technologies company, had his own "Hansel and Gretel" obsession.

    Brandes wanted to be castrated and mutilated. He dreamt of being taking bodily into another man - being ingested - becoming one with another man.

    For both, it was as if some perverted fairy tale had come true.

    Soon after he was arrested in December 2002, Meiwes told investigators he had a childhood obsession with the Grimm Brothers' fairy tale "Hansel and Gretel", and was especially fascinated by the passage in which the storybook witch "fattened up little Hansel" in hopes of cooking and eating him.

    This fixation may have been exacerbated when his family moved to the rambling, 30-room, half-timbered house in Rotenburg an der Fulda when he was 16.

    The family's next-door neighbour was a self-avowed Satanist called Ulla von Bernus who published occult tracts and gave interviews to German print and broadcast media about her prowess at "casting death spells with 90 percent reliability".

    Von Bernus made headlines throughout Germany in the early 1980s when she was taken to court by a disgruntled woman who claimed she had paid von Bernus USD 15,000 to put a death curse on her husband - who then did not die. The woman wanted her money back.

    Von Bernus was best friends with Waltraud Meiwes, the future cannibal's domineering mother. The suspect himself told investigators he was "in and out of Ulla's house all the time" until von Bernus died in 1998 at age 86.

    Waltraud and Armin moved to Rotenburg in the mid-1970s. His parents had divorced when he was 8 and he rarely saw his policeman father or two step-brothers again.

    Witnesses told the court Meiwes was firmly under the thumb of his mother, who ordered him about the house "like a drill sergeant" and who chaperoned him on his rare dates with women and who even insisted on accompanying him on field exercises when he was in the military.

    "The other soldiers in his company thought that was pretty weird, to say the least," a witness testified.

    When he was 20 she even had the temerity to post a stick-on label saying "Kinderzimmer" (Child's Room) on the door of Armin's bedroom.

    He never removed the label, the witness said, even after his mother died in 1999.

    "He was a mama's boy," a neighbour told reporters. "He was totally fixated on his mother, who he said never let him date girls. After she died, he began to thaw out."

    It was only after her death that Meiwes began talking about "horrible things" he had discovered while surfing the Internet in search of gay companionship, the witness said.

    No one in the village of Rothenburg in the rolling forest lands of central Germany knew of his fantasies. But thanks to the internet, Meiwes was able to make them come true in March 2001 when he made contact wtih Brandes.

    Meiwes himself said in a final statement to the court that he felt regret but no real remorse. He regrets having been caught. He feels no remorse for what he did.

    "I took his life, and I readily admit that," the tight-lipped man with the hazel eyes, receding brown hair and square jaw-line told the court matter-of-factly.

    "But I want the court to understand that I did nothing that ran contrary to his express wishes," he said of the 39-year-old Brandes.


    I've had the kick of a lifetime
    "He wanted it so badly, it was his heart's desire," Meiwes said of Brandes' death wish.

    "And if I hadn't been so stupid as to get back on the internet and look for other men, I would have taken Bernd's and my secret with me to my grave," he said.

    But — without the slightest apparent trace of remorse — he told the court, "I've had the kick of a lifetime. You don't need to worry that I'll ever need to do this again."

    Bolstering his argument was expert testimony from a psychiatrist who testified that Meiwes, while criminally perverted, is legally sane.

    Dr Georg Stolpmann said Meiwes suffered from a serious psychological abnormality, but he was responsible for his actions in the legal sense of sanity.

    "It was a premeditated, thoroughly planned and meticulously executed act," Stolpmann testified. "The conscious thought processes of this man's mind were in no way impaired.

    Meiwes was acutely aware of the legal ramifications of his actions, which is why he placed such importance on getting his victim's willing consent. Thus, his mental competency is not in question, he said.

    Stolpmann said the defendant had subsequently written to an acquaintance: "It is an incredible feeling to have ultimate power over another man and to slice him up into serving portions."

    "For Meiwes, the goal of all this was what he called 'to get the biggest kick of my life', as he has said repeatedly," Stolpmann said. "He wanted absolute power over another person and was planning from the start to commit other such crimes."


    He was responsible for his actions in the legal sense of sanity.
    Embarrassingly for Germans, this case revives memories of the infamous Butcher of Hanover, a man who lured scores of young men and boys to their deaths over a five-year period after World War I.

    Fritz Haarmann, a real-life meat market owner in Hanover, Germany, took advantage of post-war economic chaos to prey on street urchins and jobless young men. Promising them money for sex, he killed and dismembered them — then sold their meat in his butcher shop.

    Disposing of the corpses by turning them into cutlets and sausages, he got away with his crimes until 1924 when a youth escaped and tipped off police. Investigating officers were stunned by piles of blood-stained clothes and a back sewer full of skulls.

    Convicted of 27 deaths (though he proudly claimed more than 50), Haarmann was sentenced to death and while in prison awaiting decapitation he gave a tell-all statement. Like Meiwes, he said slaughtering and eating his victims gave him a sexual kick.

    German filmmaker Fritz Lang adapted the Butcher of Hanover story for the screen, though he was constrained to tone down the most grisly details for mainstream audiences.

    Peter Lorre was cast as the serial killer. There were no male prostitutes or toy boys, instead this time the victims were sweet little girls.

    The finished movie was entitled "M" and became one of the classic films of all time for making conceivable something so inconceivable.

    Meiwes, meanwhile, says he is considering a number of offers from publishers for his life story.

    "There are lots of other people out there like me, at least 500 in Germany alone, I'd estimate," he said — a claim supported by the fact that 400 gay men responded to his chat line "gobble up" request.

    "They need to hear what I have to say so they can get the professional help I never did," Meiwes said.

    January 2004

    DPA

    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    You are an official nutcase Dickholeian.

    Anyway, what is your VI on this guy:

    ESTj
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    That pic has actually a skeletal facial structure analoguos to mine
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    You are an official nutcase Dickholeian.

    Anyway, what is your VI on this guy:

    Post it again Tranny, I can't see the pic.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    I considered ENTj, too
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Good God,



    That is the devil I think
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Could be ENTJ, give me a name

    That pic is too theatrical, I need NORMAL pics,
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    You are an official nutcase Dickholeian.

    Anyway, what is your VI on this guy:



    Are they similar?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    The German Cannibal's House of Horror

    Convicted only of manslaughter and sentenced to 8 1/2 years in prison for killing, dismembering and eating another man who allegedly agreed to the arrangement over the Internet.

    Indeed, home is where the heart is—and the lungs, liver and kidneys too.

    For this is the chilling house of horror where jailed cannibal Armin Meiwes, pictured right, butchered, froze and cooked his willing victim.

    As the killer yesterday began his controversial 8-year sentence for manslaughter, locals in the central German village of Rotenburg were calling for the rotting half-timbered mansion to be pulled down.

    For Meiwes' spooky, 44-roomed half-timbered sprawl was nicknamed "the ghost house" long before he started luring potential dinners back.

    Police took away truckloads of contents after discovering Berlin computer expert Bernd Brandes had been stabbed to death, filleted and eaten there.

    But although Meiwes was sensationally found not guilty of murder on Friday—as the victim was a consenting participant—our exclusive pictures reveal the isolated house on the hill still reeks of evil.

    It looks eerily like the Bates Motel in Alfred Hitchcock's classic big-screen heart-stopper Psycho.

    And, just like mad killer Norman Bates, 42-year-old Meiwes was obsessed with his domineering mother.

    When she died in 1999, aged 77, he stayed on in the house they shared— keeping all the gloomy heavy antique decor she chose.

    He even wore her clothes, mimicked her voice and kept her room as a shrine—laying a manikin's head on the pillow.

    Snack

    But with Mum gone Meiwes could live out his lifelong fantasy of feasting on human flesh. After wooing Brandes on the internet Meiwes met him up at the station and took him to the house.

    He led him along the lino-floored corridors to show off his "slaughter room"—a narrow windowless upstairs chamber with a meat hook fixed to the ceiling, a cage for holding victims and walls now flecked with mould. After romping on a damp, bare bed the men went down to the kitchen.

    There—after downing 20 sleeping pills, a bottle of Vicks cold relief and schnapps—Brandes, 43, agreed to be killed. First Meiwes cut off his manhood with a butcher's knife, bandaged him and fried the organ with garlic for a snack.

    It took Brandes 10 hours to die after Meiwes put him in a warm bath to "bleed out".

    Meiwes whiled away the time reading a Star Trek adventure and finished off the job at 4.15am by hauling his guest to the slaughter room and stabbing him in the throat.

    As an easy listening radio station played, Meiwes stripped 65lb of flesh from the body, which he portioned into plastic bags and hid in the cellar, under pizzas in the deep freeze.

    He cooked some every day for 10 months, even trying to make flour by grinding baked arm bone. The leftovers and teeth were buried in the garden— near a barbecue used regularly for human grills.

    It was only when supplies started running low that Meiwes began trawling for fresh victims. Police arrested him when a young Austrian man he contacted was horrified to discover it was no joke.

    When cops raided Meiwes' ramshackle home they found just 15lb of Brandes left in the freeezer.




    Come on over for breakfast...

    A STRING of blood-curdling e-mails today reveals the sheer horror firing the twisted mind of convicted cannibal Armin Meiwes.

    The German sicko, jailed on Friday for slaughtering, cooking and eating another man, trawled the internet for willing victims then set about luring them to the dinner table and onto his plate with THOUSANDS of bizarre messages.

    Eventually, after months of fishing with adverts on pervert websites, he hooked disturbed computer technician Bernd Brandes.

    From Valentine's Day, 2001, until the final banquet of blood on March 9, the two men conducted a deadly courtship.

    Leftovers

    The drama that unfolds in the chilling e-mail traffic between cannibal Meiwes and victim Brandes rivals anything Hollywood could concoct—in fact the killer now hopes for a £1million payday as moviemakers vie for his story.

    In an early message the cannibal teases by announcing he is making spaghetti carbonara for dinner. Relishing his gory end the victim replies: "You don't have to buy meat again, there will be plenty left."

    Then came a terrifyingly matter-of-fact exchange about the fate of any human leftovers.

    VICTIM: "What will you do with my brain?"

    CANNIBAL: "I'll leave it, I don't want to split your skull."

    VICTIM: "Better bury it, preferably in a cemetery; nobody notices skulls there. Or maybe pulverise it?"

    CANNIBAL: "We have a nice small cemetery here."

    VICTIM: "You could use it as an ashtray."

    The anticipation got 43-year-old Brandes, pictured bottom right, sexually excited and he described in great detail the relief he expected from being bumped off and devoured at Meiwes' isolated house near Rotenburg.

    He wrote: "I hope you are serious because I really want it. My nipples look forward to your stomach."

    As the fatal rendezvous approached the weird cyber banter between the two men grew...

    VICTIM: "Are you a smoker?"

    CANNIBAL: "Yes, but my teeth are still pretty white."

    VICTIM: "That's good, I smoke, too. I hope you like smoked meat."

    CANNIBAL: "Just bring yourself for breakfast."

    But, before discovering his human meal-ticket to notoriety, Meiwes had plenty of near-misses.

    Incredibly, he was in touch with around 200 would-be dinners, attracted by his ads on websites with names like ‘Flesh and Bone' and ‘Cannibal Cafe'.

    Calling himself Franky—after a fantasy friend he invented during a lonely childhood—Meiwes, 42, e-mailed one eager applicant and declared: "I hope you can come quick to me, I am a hungry cannibal. Please tell me your height and weight and I will butcher and eat your fine flesh."

    Portion control was obviously important to obsessed Meiwes. An e-mail to a man called Hansel read: "Hi! Being roasted alive, that is absolutely a beautiful concept.

    "But keep in mind that with your weight there is about 35kg of your flesh available for eating. If everyone eats 500gms you need 70 people. And there shouldn't be anything left of your delicious flesh.

    "To get such a high number of diners could be difficult so if you do decide to have yourself slaughtered then please contact me."

    One of the first oddballs to respond was an Italian called Matteo.

    But his tastes were a bit strong even for Meiwes. Without a hint of irony, he told the judges in court: "Matteo wanted me to burn his testicles with a flame thrower.

    Whipped

    "And he wanted me to hammer his body down with nails and pins while he was whipped to death. I found that a bit weird."

    At Christmas Meiwes made contact with a man who said he could provide a young boy for dinner.

    But a couple of days later he was off the menu. Meiwes recalled: "He said he was being eaten at a Russian Orthodox feast. I tried his website after Christmas but there was no reply so perhaps it happened."

    The killer also spoke of another e-mail pal, Andreas, from Regensburg in southern Germany. "He wanted me to pick him up in a cattle truck and slaughter him like a pig," said Meiwes.

    "I told him to take the train. I picked him up at the station and we went back to the butchery at my house. He wanted me to wear rubber boots, which he licked. I wrapped him in clingfilm ready for slaughtering but he backed out. So we just fooled around, drank beer and ate pizza."

    Wannabe lunch Dirk Moeller, a German conference organiser living in London, was next.

    Meiwes said: "He wanted me to pronounce a death sentence upon him like in a court so I got one made up from a document on the internet. He came to the house but he backed out, too. We ended up going to the pictures to watch Ocean's Eleven."

    Alex from Essen had a specific request, too—to be beheaded. Meiwes refused because he was "too fat".

    And Stefan from Kassel almost made it into the pot—only to be pardoned because of the weather.

    He got as far as being hung up on the slaughter chamber's meat hook, wrapped in clingfilm with labels pinned into his flesh denoting various cuts like steak, ham and bacon.

    Meiwes said: "We called it off because it was so damn cold in there."
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    His mother was clearly ISFP
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    That is fascinating.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Why is ESTJ his type? V.I. or behaviour?
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Why is ESTJ his type? V.I. or behaviour?
    I would say behaviour more than anything. But also VI show that he is S, etc.

    What is your asesment?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Why is ESTJ his type? V.I. or behaviour?
    I would say behaviour more than anything. But also VI show that he is S, etc.

    What is your asesment?
    I don't know enough about the man's behaviour because I don't even know his name and have not read into him. Perhaps you can post a description about him if one is applicable.

    V.I. wise, the man does look like an ESTj to me and not because his face is like an ESTj's but because I've seen those facial expressions from an ESTj I know.

    *This is about the noble prize winner*
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Why is ESTJ his type? V.I. or behaviour?
    I would say behaviour more than anything. But also VI show that he is S, etc.

    What is your asesment?
    I don't know enough about the man's behaviour because I don't even know his name and have not read into him. Perhaps you can post a description about him if one is applicable.

    V.I. wise, the man does look like an ESTj to me and not because his face is like an ESTj's but because I've seen those facial expressions from an ESTj I know.

    *This is about the noble prize winner*
    Did you read the two articles about him above?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Why is ESTJ his type? V.I. or behaviour?
    I would say behaviour more than anything. But also VI show that he is S, etc.

    What is your asesment?
    I don't know enough about the man's behaviour because I don't even know his name and have not read into him. Perhaps you can post a description about him if one is applicable.

    V.I. wise, the man does look like an ESTj to me and not because his face is like an ESTj's but because I've seen those facial expressions from an ESTj I know.

    *This is about the noble prize winner*
    Did you read the two articles about him above?
    Yeah, I have read it now and I believe he could possibly be an intuitive, since I can't picture an ESTj living in a strange dream world and having obssessed fantasies.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    Here is another estj



    Counting corpses with the cool dedication of a trained bookkeeper, he went home each night to the loving embrace of his own family. An affectionate husband who kissed his wife morning and night, and tucked his children into bed.

    Watching millions of innocent human beings dissolve in the gas chambers, burning in the crematoriums, and their teeth melting into gold bars, Hoess wrote poetry about the beauty of Auschwitz.

    And when he had an affair with an Auschwitz prisoner, he extricated himself by sending her to the gas chamber ..
    http://www.auschwitz.dk/hoess.htm
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  27. #27
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    His mother was clearly ISFP
    BULLCRAP
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  28. #28
    Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Thinker
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I agree with the ESTJ as his type.
    Why is ESTJ his type? V.I. or behaviour?
    I would say behaviour more than anything. But also VI show that he is S, etc.

    What is your asesment?
    I don't know enough about the man's behaviour because I don't even know his name and have not read into him. Perhaps you can post a description about him if one is applicable.

    V.I. wise, the man does look like an ESTj to me and not because his face is like an ESTj's but because I've seen those facial expressions from an ESTj I know.

    *This is about the noble prize winner*
    Did you read the two articles about him above?
    Yeah, I have read it now and I believe he could possibly be an intuitive, since I can't picture an ESTj living in a strange dream world and having obssessed fantasies.
    The man-eater looks like an LII to me.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    His mother was clearly ISFP
    Could have been ISFj, ESTp or ESFp... (from the very little that was actually written about her.)
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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  30. #30
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    tank boy just like to blame his problems with his mom on socionics. he's not the only one who uses socionics as a convenient way to detach from personal issues while intellectually masturbating at the same.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    tank boy just like to blame his problems with his mom on socionics. he's not the only one who uses socionics as a convenient way to detach from personal issues while intellectually masturbating at the same.
    Sounds like you are aquainted with this.

  32. #32
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    yeah
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Default Stalin - Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian


    Are they similar?
    @ Dioklecian

    Are you saying that Stalin was an ESTJ too?
    I hope not, but I have seen far stranger type claims.
    Anyway the custom in socionics seemed to be to type all the baddies into Beta, and now that we have opened that can of worms the days of innocence are over for Delta.

    PS Your typing seems to rely heavily on VI. If you could provide other arguments as well - well it would be easier for others to appreciate your efforts.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


  34. #34
    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stalin - Again

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian


    Are they similar?
    @ Dioklecian

    Are you saying that Stalin was an ESTJ too?
    I hope not, but I have seen far stranger type claims.
    Anyway the custom in socionics seemed to be to type all the baddies into Beta, and now that we have opened that can of worms the days of innocence are over for Delta.

    PS Your typing seems to rely heavily on VI. If you could provide other arguments as well - well it would be easier for others to appreciate your efforts.
    No Stalin was with the ENTJ pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    You are an official nutcase Dickholeian.

    Anyway, what is your VI on this guy:



    Are they similar?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  35. #35
    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    His mother was clearly ISFP
    Could have been ISFj, ESTp or ESFp... (from the very little that was actually written about her.)
    Not at all, only the ISFP has an INSATIABLE desire to keep her children little for EVER so that they don't leave her. DEPENDEnCY issues!!!!
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  36. #36
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    not type related
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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