Originally Posted by Aleksei
Manic, excitable, party obsessed, yes...
Pixie child, no...
Manic, excitable, party obsessed, yes...
Pixie child, no...
The defense rests, your honor.
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
I know ESE who's obssesed with Twilight... Does it say anything?
Sincerely Yours,
Beyond the clouds. Beyond the sun.
The Rebel without a cause.
it says that he's an Fetard. ESEs quite like Twilight.
My friend's EIE sis is one of the above-mentioned screeching fangirls.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Wouldn't screeching fangirldom be integrally Fe dominant anyway?
Not really, because if you said something like.
Intellectual, stuck in their head, academic....
This could include a bunch of types.
SEE's are also manic, excitable and party animals.
Lol this decribes the closest thing to my attitude about it as well.
My sister is a high school english teacher, so obviously she was aware of the books, because some of her students read them. She dragged me and my family along to the first movie and overall I knew the audience was young teenage girls who like to swoon over things, like the whole titanic leo di-caprio stuff. I watched it and was like "ok I get it, not my genre, but whatever, I'll watch". Eventually I got bored and decided to watch the other movies just to see what happens, and every time I do I can't stand it when there is an intentional 5 minute shot where the cinematography focuses on jacob's shirtless body, I literally cringe and feel like escaping, then its followed by incredibly corny dialogue like "your kind of beautiful" in the lazy mumbling tone of the actress. I just feel like rolling my eyes the entire time. The special FX are cheeseball too in the movie. Lol and the sparkling vampire things reminds me of the merman commercial from zoolander. Then some ideas like the ghostly edward appearing to her on a motorbike, I took one look at that scene and thought "wtf". 95% of it is just pure sap, really they should rename the series "ipecac".
I feel like hollywood is just capitalizing on the hype from the book and trying to generate another "titanic" a huge grossing hit via producing some naive pre-teen girls fantasy. I feel bad for the dude that plays edward, he will forever be cast as that role.
Lol and its not a saga just because she wrote 3 books.
well remember that Twilight is geared toward teenage girls. an ILI/Gamma teenage girl could easily love this series, and the idea of a guy like Edward falling in love with them. pretty much everything in Twilight glorifies Fi + Se.
Twilight is Delta/Beta ffs.
The ILI rate of mental aging is n/2 + 16. A Gamma girl wouldn't give a damn.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
Not necessarily. I acutally think it might be easier in some ways for writers to write about their opposing quadras, because they're less likely to be pyschologically vested in their characters...idk. I bet I could write a good Beta book, I just wouldn't take it very seriously.
Jane Austen was reputably ILI and Pride and Prejudice is supposedly Alpha.
My life's work (haha):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
Input, PLEASEAnd thank you
Where do you see Gamma values in it? I admit I didn't read the books (some fragments were enough to put me off), but from what I've seen of the plot, it seems to emphasize people doing stupid things because they feel like that, drama, thinking of getting themselves killed because someone doesn't love them, more drama, actually trying to get themselves killed for similar reasons, more drama, drama, drama, more cheap drama...
I don't get how ILI would be more susceptible to it than a silly teenager of any other type (considering that many teenagers tend to lean this way, so it's always possible they'd suffer from it, *sigh*), really.
Well she wasn't really trying to get herself killed when she jumped off the cliff. She had a bit of a martyr complex but i don't know about "trying to get herself killed." The biggest drama is that she played the two guys off each other, and I've seen people of all quadras play that game.
I haven't read New Moon, but from what I've heard, her reckless behavior was because she could "hear/see/feel" Edward when her life was in danger (this being after he dumped her for her own good). Or something like that. ;>.> It's been a while.
So... Part of why some people can't stand Edward is because he's way too possessive, a creepy stalker, and abusive. Leaving the abuse out of the picture, are the particular manifestations of the other two behaviors examples of FiSe gone wrong? (For those confused by the wording, my apologies. I'm trying to prevent irate posters from jumping down my throat.)
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
ya, she jumped off the cliff so she could hear his voice. crazy and stupid, but not suicidal. he tried to kill himself when he thought she was dead though.
i think i can see why conceptually the behaviors you mention might look to line up with FiSe gone wrong, but i dont think theyre more common to FiSe types in actual practice.
ftr i do get the impression meyer is probably delta NF based on seeing interviews and from what she writes outside of books but for some reason the twilight novels seemed to appreciate Se. i guess gamma/delta or something.
i see Gamma values in the heavy focus on relationships (both good and bad), and in the firm personal sentiments that the characters display. it is always made explicitly clear who is a friend, an enemy, a loved one, who is good or evil, along with the characters' feelings of loyalty, devotion, hate, vengefulness, love, and the like. it's often shown how the characters cannot be easily convinced to feel otherwise in these matters. a few examples are: the various lovers' devotion to one another (often in terms of "forever"), in Victoria's relentless quest to avenge her partner, in Edward's utter hate of anyone who tries to harm Bella (and in exacting revenge on them, if possible), etc.
also prevalent is the theme of self-sacrifice for the benefit of loved ones, often at the expense of the character's own happiness, safety, and comfort. a major example of this is how Edward must constantly restrain and control himself in order to be with Bella. he does so gladly, even though it is extremely difficult and painful for him. he also at one point leaves her because he can no longer live with himself knowing that by being with her he is endangering her life, and he more or less hates himself for being so "selfish".
i didn't say that. i wanted to show my disagreement with KazeCraven's idea that this series would not appeal to ILIs. i don't see any reason why these books would appeal less to ILIs than other types, especially considering how Fi + Se are put up on a pedestal in them.I don't get how ILI would be more susceptible to it than a silly teenager of any other type (considering that many teenagers tend to lean this way, so it's always possible they'd suffer from it, *sigh*), really.
Spoilers ahoy! Does it really matter at this point?
Having seen the movies/read the first book so far, it would appear that he does everything with Bella's safety in mind. He's just so damn smothering about it. I get his reasons for not wanting to change Bella, but I respect what I see as her wanting to get in on the action rather than being constantly coddled by him. Sure, they'll live happily ever after 'cause it's a book, but I doubt things would go so smoothly IRL. Who wants a spouse/bf/gf who has so little confidence in your ability to handle things? Is Edward going to stop coddling her now that she's a vampire?
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
*nods*
yep. i liked the books (lol) but i think they send a really terrible message to the young girls who might see the bella/edward relationship as something that's actually ideal in reality. a guy breaking your truck in the middle of the night and having his sister kidnap you and hold you hostage to prevent you from seeing a male friend is NOT a good boyfriend, lol.
Yeah. I can see why girls think he's just perfect; who doesn't want a guy who is selflessly devoted and would die for you? He just takes it way too far.
I still want to know why she gave up the living furnace/giant pet wolf. How awesome would that be???
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
I think you guys are mixing Gamma Fi/Se with Beta Ti/Se.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
You put a terrible choice before me... either read the books and risk brain damage, or give up arguing even though everything brought up in this thread seems ridiculously non-Gamma.
EXPAND UPON THIS ASSERTION, WHITE-HEAD!
I don't really know anything about Twilight, from what I hear it's often described as something like... "Takes itself way too seriously... melodramatic... and maybe a bit weird (vampires and werewolves)." Taking itself too seriously is probably alien to Democratic quadras, so not Alpha/Gamma. Melodrama is neither Alpha/Delta. Both Betas and Deltas are kind of weird. So I'm going to say... Beta.
See... things like killing yourself over a loved one is the exact kind of fanatical devotion and melodrama that some Beta types engage in (though not all). I mean that's kind of Shakespearian, right... (Romeo and Juliet). I'd say that it's not Gamma at all. I say this in the best possible way... Gammas are a bit more "selfish" or perhaps individualistic. Gammas don't take themselves so seriously. I'd say Aristocratic types in general are more "serious" than Democratic types.
Last edited by Singu; 01-31-2011 at 10:17 AM.
Taking itself too seriously is alien to democratic quadras? People of all quadras do that, and frequently. Melodrama could come from several sources as well.
Aiss, you complain too much.You put a terrible choice before me... either read the books and risk brain damage, or give up arguing even though everything brought up in this thread seems ridiculously non-Gamma.
I read the books. They're silly, ridiculous, and I agree that Edward's behavior would raise so many potential abuser control freak red flags I can't imagine why anyone would get involved with him. But I read all the books anyway. It's like I wanted to know what happened. I couldn't help it. And even when stupid stuff would happen, I'd still want to know what would happen next.
Haha. She's having babies.
They turn Bella into a vampire?? Must watch Eclipse! See what I mean? Curse this addiction!
Yeah, I don't mean it in a way as being defensive, etc. But I mean it more in the realm of art, music, drama, theater, etc. Listen to any Beta music, they are so serious with anything to do with love and emotions. Deltas are probably similar, however I'd say that melodrama is more Fe than Fi (Fi is not about too much happiness or sadness, but it's more balanced). It's also in the way people generally act. Aristocratic types often act like everything they do have some sort of grand universal cosmic significance. But how can they not? They believe that they are the minority that decide for the majority. With Democratic types, the decision making process is shared along everybody else, so they can relax more. It's also interesting to look at different cultures. Look at typical Gamma cultures, such as the American or the British culture. They generally don't take themselves too seriously, and they'd rather laugh, criticize stupid things and have a good time. They're generally light-hearted and they don't take themselves too seriously. Then look at more Aristocratic cultures, such as the German culture, Russian culture, Chinese culture, etc. They are so serious with things sometimes and take things much more seriously in general. But perhaps this also has many other (non-Socionics) factors involved, I'm not sure. But I think that it's interesting to look at.
So yeah... I'm saying it in a very general way.
Is that graph even reliable? I would think that the following graph is somewhat less reliable:
pi squared
Bastards.
Romeo and Juliet is awesome, as well as epic romantic stories from the past. But now these days nobody knows how to do a modern romance right. People are so bitter/jaded. All y'all want is torture, death and throat fucking - you're just as dramatic as 'the emos.' I think the Edward/Bella thing is kinda sweet, very corny but I think maybe people need that. Anyways I prefer something in the middle between disney sap and total heartlessness.
I don't understand the venom really. (of course people are going to have whatever opinions they have about whatever) The book is obviously something for 14-year-old girls. Why do any of you care? You're all in your 20s. Maybe it's pathetic if a 30-year-old house wife reads twilight but then who am I to judge? Anyways the author is just laughing at all of you all the way to the bank.
I'm sorry but now I support all authors, cause I know the mentality of being a writer- and I support all books, because there is somebody out there that is going to be inspired by what you write no matter what other people say/think about it. I actually don't even like the twilight books, (boring to me) but I don't hate them.
I think 14-year-old girls love that 'twu wuv' idealized sap because the cruelty in that time of your life is so real and so pure. It's not even really in a campy, entertaining way either (Unless you're a sociopath that likes that stuff =p): it's just plain cruelty and human evilness. But I see the unhealthy pattern forming, you only want such a sweet kind of nonexistant thing because everybody in your own life isn't treating you right. Most kids that age are very unhappy, and emotionally hurt by others. To me that's where you guys are coming from, you just wish a book would more accurately portray the kind of emotional struggles people really go through at that time in their lives.Disagree. Stephanie Meyer has an incredibly juvenile view of relationships.
But from the author's perspective I think she's just being really sympathetic, and giving people what they want to hear so she herself can be richer. Welcome to the American way. *rolls eyes* lol
I'm actually 40ish. But we all do! We all read them!
At least you're not one of those women who coalesce in packs and squeal like fangirls!
Watch me try to wriggle out of that one when someone here reveals that they are
Twilight just feeds the damsel in distress fantasies of little girls, young and old. Consequently, this is very successful.
Actually I've thought about this, and I really don't... its not so much Stephanie Meyer and her fanbase I hate... I mean she has the right to write whatever the hell she wants and people have the right to read whatever the hell they want, and If I don't like it, I don't have to read it or be involved.
It's more the media aspect I hate, getting bombarded with all the hype and seeing all these new series about "sexy vampires", and then knowing why this occurs is hollywood trying to cash in on the 14-year-old girl market. Lol and its not really that bad, its just a little annoying really, like you see it and kind roll your eyes and think "dumb", but its not really worth doing anything else.
Also I think while obviously I don't like it, I think even by 14-year-old girl standards its corny. If I were going to attempt to set out and make a movie for 14-year-old girls I would do it differently. So part of it is also my need to express that aspect also, but that aspect is purely an opinion and not everyone will agree with me on that. It's just me saying I find it corny and shallow, but the real annoyance is mainly all the hype because its not like I can simply forget the series exists while 14-year-old girls who are into it are reading it.
Last edited by male; 02-01-2011 at 07:58 PM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
4w5 sp/sx
