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Thread: Types and GEnes

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    Default Types and GEnes

    I am trying to find out why people abuse their children. According to evolutionary theory people should try to do the best for their children to enhance the gene pool with their own genes. This is what all of the modern life sciences are based on.

    However, people abuse their children all the time, sometimes in major ways and other times in less obvious but just as deadly ways.

    Why is that?

    Does socionics have an answer? Are we simply pleasure machines that like amebas seek to satisfy day to day chemical urges?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I am trying to find out why people abuse their children. According to evolutionary theory people should try to do the best for their children to enhance the gene pool with their own genes. This is what all of the modern life sciences are based on.
    Good question.
    One answer straight out of the New York Times. Unfortunately nothing unnatural at all. In evolutionary terms sometimes it pays to neglect, abandon and even kill some of your offspring.

    One Thing They Aren't: Maternal

    By NATALIE ANGIER
    Published: May 9, 2006
    Oh, mothers! Dear noble, selfless, tender and ferocious defenders of progeny all across nature's phylogeny: How well you deserve our admiration as Mother's Day draws near, and how photogenically you grace the greeting cards that we thrifty offspring will send in lieu of a proper gift.


    Here is a mother guinea hen, trailed by a dozen cotton-ball chicks. Here a mother panda and a baby panda share a stalk of bamboo, while over there, a great black eagle dam carries food to her waiting young. We love you, Mom, you're our port in the storm. You alone help clip Mother Nature's bloodstained claws.

    But wait. That guinea hen is walking awfully fast. In fact, her brood cannot quite keep up with her, and by the end of the day, whoops, only two chicks still straggle behind. And the mama panda, did she not give birth to twins? So why did just one little panda emerge from her den? As for the African black eagle, her nest is less a Hallmark poem than an Edgar Allan Poe. The mother has gathered prey in abundance, and has hyrax carcasses to spare. Yet she feeds only one of her two eaglets, then stands by looking bored as the fattened bird repeatedly pecks its starving sibling to death.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/sc...=1&oref=slogin
    (Click to read the whole article, but enough of boring you for now.)


    On the other hand I do not think that most parents in today's western world actually willfully abuse their children. What happens more often is more along the lines of this poem by Philip Larkin that Baby cited earlier:


    Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another's throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don't have any kids yourself.

    http://www.artofeurope.com/larkin/lar2.htm

    It is a touching poem.
    I think socionics can help us understand this process too. Most parents tend to raise their children in a way that they think is best for their children. And of course in practise this usually means in the way they wish they had been raised, but when your children have completely different personalities and poorly compatible socionics types this messes up things, often times quite badly.

    From an evolutionary point of view, one also has to take into account that the personality qualities that make the most ruthless corporate shark do not always translate into ideal parenting skills. And for the most part of human evolutionary history the primary challence has been to secure sufficient material resources to ensure survival. If being manipulative or tough-minded helps you achieve higher status in the tribe, it does not really matter if the same personality traits make you less than an ideal parent. Evolution does not build perfect creatures, only working compromises hastily put together. In an ideal world perhaps humans would have completely different personalities for the highly competitive work place and ideally supportive home enviroment. There certainly are some people who have managed to combine totally opposite roles at home and in the workplace. Yet often we consider them all the more monstrous for that:

    Counting corpses with the cool dedication of a trained bookkeeper, he went home each night to the loving embrace of his own family. An affectionate husband who kissed his wife morning and night, and tucked his children into bed.

    Watching millions of innocent human beings dissolve in the gas chambers, burning in the crematoriums, and their teeth melting into gold bars, Hoess wrote poetry about the beauty of Auschwitz.

    And when he had an affair with an Auschwitz prisoner, he extricated himself by sending her to the gas chamber ..

    http://www.auschwitz.dk/hoess.htm
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Alice Miller...
    "Wenn der Deutsche in einen Satz taucht, dann hat man ihn die längste Zeit gesehen, bis er auf der anderen Seite des Ozeans wieder auftaucht mit seinem Verb im Mund." - Mark Twain

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    I believe it has something to do with the orientation of one's dominant attitude/Jung type at any given moment. If I am using extroverted intuition when another INTJ is using introverted thinking, then we are facing divergent environmental conditions. On the one hand I am needing to use extroverted intuition, while the other INTJ is using introverted thinking and orienting the world against the extroverted intuitive ideas that I need to adapt. Naturally we will see things differently.

    I could choose to adapt to introverted thinking in this instance, but this would be a conscious decision overruling an unconscious appraisal that is meant to sustain me. Moreover, there is the matter of me changing myself internally to "suit" another person, which is an affront to my pride. Why shouldn't they change to suit me? Perhaps we could meet at a middle ground of introverted intuition or extroverted thinking, except that's not possible due to function ordering. Not only are we destined for conflict, but indeed, any attempt to mitigate the conflict would invoke submission to the unconscious and a consequential failure to adapt. I've suffered much in my life for going all out for the "wrong" people.

    In light of these apparent truths, I would assume that abusive parents in general are faced with a similar situation in their children. The abuse is mutual.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronau
    Alice Miller...
    ???????????
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Alice Miller is a parenting expert who has written a lot about abuse.

    Some of her articles are here

    http://naturalchild.org/alice_miller/
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky
    Alice Miller is a parenting expert who has written a lot about abuse.

    Some of her articles are here

    http://naturalchild.org/alice_miller/
    THanks.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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