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Thread: growing up in out quadra environment

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    Default growing up in out quadra environment

    or just being closely connected to adjacent or opposing quadra people for a lengthy period of time.

    does it cause one to adapt and appear more like another type(s)?

    does it cause one to atrophy and become reticent to express themselves?

    does it depend on the person? does it depend on the type?

    both theorizations and anecdotes are encouraged. thanks.

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    All of my immediate family, as well as a vast majority of my extended family, is Alpha. I've always kinda felt "different" in that regard, like never completely understood by my parents. I do find that when they do things that annoy me I become much less emotive and expressive; it seems like they've come to see that as just my personality, which is a shame considering how they tend to see me in a more annoyed state. I don't feel particularly adapted to the Fe/Ti way of thinking, because I grew up never being able to understand it or fit into it. Part of it could just be subtype related: were I an Ne sub I may have fit in a bit better, or something.
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    My parents are Beta and Gamma, so not one particular quadra, but both types with creative Ni (EIE/LIE). My feeling growing up was that they were hypercritical. My ESI brother does not share that opinion, so I don't think it's just them. He thought my dad was controlling, but he did not feel they were critical at all. I don't think it's changed who I am, but mabye if both parents were in one quadra it would more. I also have an EII older sister so I wasn't alone in my Deltaness.

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    Alpha-centralized extended family. Gamma age group.

    I'm pretty much estranged from everyone and I get criticized just for walking into a room. Since I was 9/10, they have always commented on my absence from get-togethers and what have you. My closest members are my SEE sister and SLE cousin, but I rarely ever see them.
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    anecdote:

    When I was in high school I spent a year abroad living with 2 families. The first months I spent with an alpha family (ESE-ILE couple + daughter). The rest of the year I spent with a beta family (I think). The husband was LSI and I think the wife was EIE ( + LSE son).

    The difference was huge. I didn't really notice anything before I moved to the beta family. In the alpha family things were going fine, I felt at home, I didn't reflect over it. But then when I started living with the betas I suddenly felt incredibly self conscious. Words didn't come naturally anymore, I had to come up with something to say, and how to spend my time at home. Even things like if I should sit in my own room or in the living room or some other room became a "problem". Not that anybody complained, I just felt totally misplaced. Nothing felt natural. It was not until then I realized how good life was in the alpha home.

    It's the thing about wasting so much energy on being self conscious and monitoring oneself that is so unhealthy in my opinion. After a while one even gets used to it and it becomes the "normal" state of mind.

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    ^ Maybe it's the way you perceive your discomfort in primarily Si and Fe perspective? I generally feel like you describe around unknown people, self-conscious with society at large, but at home, even with Alpha parents, I was always most comfortable. It's just when we start discussing that things get bad.

    Based on observations of some people, myself included, and this http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/1...and-their.html (although it blamed everything on PoLR, but fit with types nevertheless), I'd guess a very clear or emphasized pathetic HA might be one of the signs of "incompatible" environment (incompatible as far as producing functions go, anyway).

    There are many things that I only now started realizing about myself... it's like slowly springing back to natural state after having been squeezed. I keep noticing it as it happens, but it's really vague. One thing I certainly did was all the unnecessary rationalizing, overvalued Ti. While I can't say I wasn't in tune with my Ni, or what I associate with it, it sometimes seems as if I deliberately went against it.

    Even with the stereotypical things ILIs are good at, such as timing (it's stereotypical but happens to work in my family), it was all "wrong" - I was being told nearly every time that it was luck, and I only succeeded "this one time", and I should know it's "usually" as my parents say... except it wasn't and they could never give me any example of it, they just kept repeating it at all occasions and were kind of offended at being asked for evidence (though they're more used to it by now). This was only a minor annoyance though, much worse was lack of discretion, bringing up personal issues in public, criticizing me first and foremost in front of strangers, no matter if it was just or unjust, probably to shame me into submission or something - needless to say I fought even more, I always would defend myself and attack back - yuck. I showed an awful lot of pathetic HA because of it, in retrospect. Also their affection was rather whimsical, until I was a teenager I was often hurt by it. Only a falling out between them and my brother made me realize they *did* care... otherwise it could have been me and not him, I'm afraid. I don't really like to think of it, but I bring it up because, especially in this conflict, I find this rather type-related, Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi perspective. They make sense according to and agree with the former, while rejected what I said about the latter, as my brother's (didn't tell them it was socionics).
    Last edited by Aiss; 01-15-2011 at 11:28 PM.

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    I've been wondering about this a lot as both of my parents are deltas. I lived with my dad (LSE) most of my life because he's a lot more table and could provide better than my IEE mom. It seems like I am much more introverted because of living with him, always shutting myself out to escape. I moved in with my grandparents becauseits stressful being around hi m for too long. they are SEI ILE, so it was better than deltas all the time lol.

    It makes me wonder if being around so many Si egos is the reason I seemed SEI ish.
    and having an LSE dad makes me a lot better at using Te and it seems I'm less sensitive to it compared to other Te PoLRs.

    and typing my sisters was also kind of hard, though hardly being around them didn't help lol. One is ESE who was -really- hard to type, all I could really determine at first was SF..that's still all I'm really sure of, but she is a perfect description of Ni PoLR and she's not Te dominant.. my other sister is LSI it seems. Maybe SLI but she can't stand our mom so I assume LSI.

    also sorry about whatever typos you may find.. really hard to do this on my phone lol

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    All of my immediate family, as well as a vast majority of my extended family, is Alpha. I've always kinda felt "different" in that regard, like never completely understood by my parents. I do find that when they do things that annoy me I become much less emotive and expressive; it seems like they've come to see that as just my personality, which is a shame considering how they tend to see me in a more annoyed state. I don't feel particularly adapted to the Fe/Ti way of thinking, because I grew up never being able to understand it or fit into it. Part of it could just be subtype related: were I an Ne sub I may have fit in a bit better, or something.
    Same here, with adjustments to fit beta. I was confused by the lack of ambition on behalf of my ESE/LII parents.

    Also my best friend from ages 10-13 was LSE, wtf. Did not work, at all. It was almost like we secretly hated each other and got close so we could take each other down more effectively.

    It was altogether highly uncomfortable and stunted my emotional development a lot. I didn't really find fellow betas til 16, and beta irrationals til 21. So I didn't feel like I properly fit in until then - it was a lot of holding back on my part to avoid being ostracised. And now, as if to compensate, I find it difficult to fit in with non-beta groups, nor do I really feel the need to.
    Last edited by octo; 01-16-2011 at 04:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    I think I went through a slew of different defensive maneuvers growing up with supervisee's and a super-ego
    My LSI father frightened me when I was younger and as a result I don't think I really talked-back to him, and thus was forced into a state of compliance up until my mid-teens, or so.
    In the case of my ILE mother and brother, I used to feel that their Fi PoLR behavior and remarks were some how justified, which distorted my own self-perception for a long time. I also felt like I was walking on egg shells around them, constantly worried about sudden mood changes, and so not feeling comfortable being myself in their presence.

    So to answer your question, I do feel like it caused me to stifle my type, so to speak, as well as increase anxiety related to , so I probably appeared as a shadow of EII, looking and waiting for Super-ID to help me break out of my shell. Luckily I did have an LSE BF for several years, but I felt like my home life was more overpowering, I felt like "my relationship with my family is important, but our distance is too great", so it had a greater hold on me than duality at the time, although being around a dual made me more happy and confident than I was before and afterwords, it just wasn't the magic cure that some purport it to be

    It wasn't until about my twenties that I started feeling more confident in expressing myself around other people, although I still feel a sense of cautiousness when doing so.
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    Eh, if I ever have kids and they're out of quadra I'll try to have some friends of mine who are their quadra take them on adventurous day trips ...it would work best if they were IEI though, as the women I develop a certain connection to tend to be SLE (and you have to be close to ask someone to do something like that). It'd be great if they could go look at pinned butterflies in museums together, see some shocking but beautiful film, and then drive to the woods where they would have a run-in with a bear and then read Le Petit Prince by fire light, and come back painted in ash with quotes from Russian poets...

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    ESE mom. LSI dad. LSE sister. SLI brother. and my cousins are mix of delta and beta.


    I'm the only gamma, and I'm the only non-christian. <<black sheep.

    we all get on each other's nerves quite often. I do have a pretty fun love-hate dynamic with my sister. *edit* and my dad and i are very formal.. he's pretty much impossible to talk to as he never listens and one-sided conversations where nothing is solved happen often. also he's a dick to everyone.

    I think most of my family members find me endearing though. and at gatherings...I'm usually the one making inappropriate jokes.
    plus I'm irked by my cousins' wives as they are all on strict caloric diets and are all rail thin- it grosses me out- the last time I was around them they talked amongst themselves about how they only allowed themselves one sweet potato that day and a large starbucks frap.; I always eat a ton on purpose in front of them; two of the wives don't allow their kids to play outside or get dirty ever (zero health reasons, they are just all anal retentive about their kids' clothes), buncha sissies.


    if I had kids, I'd want them to grow up in and around nature and (hopefully) like it..
    and no video games til their in the teens; also no crap junk food (except nutella of course).
    I love when I see families camping together and enjoying it. *If* I had kids, I think it'd be cool to have a lil camping brood. and be musically inclined please.
    Last edited by blackburry; 06-29-2013 at 07:52 PM.

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    I don't know, I understand Alphas well because my mom was esfj and my dad was intj. I have learned how to come across as kinda more alpha and Fe cutsey than the typical Beta sternness I actually am more like in reality.

    I have gotten along great with entp and intj males.

    I do think that sometimes my mom really hates me for supervising her all her life and is really trying to get me back for all those years. I think I'm helping, she says I'm criticizing. Me and my intj dad got along better in this root way.

    I can be my lookalike more than an infp that didn't have alpha parents I think, way more so- so I think that might be part of the reason people thought I was isfp. I really highly doubt I am, The traditional estp gay male is just REALLY what I want romantically.

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    How are all of you typing your parents so precisely??

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    I hate being around my family. I agreed that I'll spend a week with them in July, and I'm already thinking how nice it will be when it's over and I can leave.

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    I get along with all very well but the least well with my brother who is SEE type. My mom is ILI, she's the profit who constantly tells me what to do and what will happen if I don't do it. My father is SLI, LOVE BOTH MY PARENTS, HE WANTS LOVA AND ATTENTION, typical delta ST my sister's ESE, very motherly and caring, but my favorite of them all is my love my LSE cousin. My brother and I don't step on each other's toes or business and there's a huge psychological distance between us, meaning we go to work, come back home, each one of us does our own thing, he doesn't listens to me... Take for instance him staying with me. Before he moved in he scanned the whole house and obviously saw how clean I keep it now the home is dirty and it's as if he doesn't care or have a concern; when I ask him to help clean, he only does bear minimum of work and then doesn't care if you're comfortable with it, in fact he just doesn't take instructions because he must only pursue things that are pleasant to him and whatever interruptions to that are boring to him; the best way to deal with him is to tell mom, his dual to say it to him or to not tell him and spare oneself the headache because he will do what he wants anyway. Arg...he will supervise my Se in controlling all sensory things... Moves the order of things I put things in, make disturbing and loud noises when he wants, say things in the name of "reality" even if it lacks empathy..."you're anorexic" these real observations of me are annoying because I can't help it if I'm thin, I eat ok enough. You can tell it bugs me. I'm often afraid of crossing him although he won't do anything it's just that he's very assertive and I don't want to fight or waste energy on small nonesense. I let him move in to save money, but he won't because as soon as he has it spends it on pleasurable things, eating out, nice clothes, etc so my mom and I talked and I've decided that whatever rent money he gives me I'll save it for him to give it to him when he moves out because I love him and I want him to be well. How else can we help our family, the people we love, be established and worry free financially if we don't help each other? His small house and space controlling behaviors are not that big a deal to deal with and they are not permanent... I can see how an LSE would be annoyed by SEE...lack of organizational consistency is one of them and not listening is the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I get along with all very well but the least well with my brother who is SEE type. My mom is ILI, she's the profit who constantly tells me what to do and what will happen if I don't do it. My father is SLI, LOVE BOTH MY PARENTS, HE WANTS LOVA AND ATTENTION, typical delta ST my sister's ESE, very motherly and caring, but my favorite of them all is my love my LSE cousin. My brother and I don't step on each other's toes or business and there's a huge psychological distance between us, meaning we go to work, come back home, each one of us does our own thing, he doesn't listens to me... Take for instance him staying with me. Before he moved in he scanned the whole house and obviously saw how clean I keep it now the home is dirty and it's as if he doesn't care or have a concern; when I ask him to help clean, he only does bear minimum of work and then doesn't care if you're comfortable with it, in fact he just doesn't take instructions because he must only pursue things that are pleasant to him and whatever interruptions to that are boring to him; the best way to deal with him is to tell mom, his dual to say it to him or to not tell him and spare oneself the headache because he will do what he wants anyway. Arg...he will supervise my Se in controlling all sensory things... Moves the order of things I put things in, make disturbing and loud noises when he wants, say things in the name of "reality" even if it lacks empathy..."you're anorexic" these real observations of me are annoying because I can't help it if I'm thin, I eat ok enough. You can tell it bugs me. I'm often afraid of crossing him although he won't do anything it's just that he's very assertive and I don't want to fight or waste energy on small nonesense. I let him move in to save money, but he won't because as soon as he has it spends it on pleasurable things, eating out, nice clothes, etc so my mom and I talked and I've decided that whatever rent money he gives me I'll save it for him to give it to him when he moves out because I love him and I want him to be well. How else can we help our family, the people we love, be established and worry free financially if we don't help each other? His small house and space controlling behaviors are not that big a deal to deal with and they are not permanent... I can see how an LSE would be annoyed by SEE...lack of organizational consistency is one of them and not listening is the other.
    EII's are so nice.





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    Grew up in an out of quadra family with one extinguisment parent. Maybe the years of foster care could demonstrate how much we did not get along. was always accused of ruining the mood, making fun times seem negative ect. Even as an adult I am always being subjected to their "inner" intuitions. Or another parent with vulnerable function Te, whom is my bestfreind and also the last person I go to for advice regarding anything usefull. The upbringning I had, regardless of the many other factors outside of socionics, has made me a firm beleiver in socionics. Obviously the archtypes are real and the intertype relationships noticable. Imagine growing up in your oppossing quadra? I did.

    Having said that as an adult who chooes to live far away, I have a much better relationship with them now.

    On the plus side, I learned lots about myself and was pushed in areas I was not comfortable with, so I would say OVER ALL IT HAS BEEN GOOD.



    I am a better more rounded person for it.
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