Information sources

[jughead]

I know a person (among many really) that is unwilling to consider information outside of his school curriculum on the subject and thinks that the information he is privy to at his university is better than the information one can freely access on the net. Basically he disregards anything not in his program. This makes having a discussion with him on topics related to these things basically useless. To me universities can be just as biased and as a whole will be behind on things because they are basically corporations not some hallowed academia pedestal.
It's been discussed before about a Fi/Te vs Fe/Ti thing and this seems to be a good example of it.
Name which they are for confirmation. Or specifically guess his type if you thinks its type related.

[EyeSeeCold]

Yea it has happened to me before.

[jughead]

And your ILI?... happened to you or you've done it.

[EyeSeeCold]

Conflicting viewpoints because of different valued elements. It has happened during talks with my INFp friend about music and also a couple times while discussing typology on forums.

[Aiss]

So Te is to blame if someone uses information found on the net which is entirely "unconfirmed", but also when they completely reject it for a single "biased" university view?

FWIW I didn't meet with such an extreme position, but IME rationals of all kinds tend to be more unnerved whenever you question what is taught to you, and especially what they tell you. Or maybe it's just my impression.

ETA: disregard this paragraph above, there are more problems with this observation than I thought at first.

[EyeSeeCold]

Ti/Fe is all protective of its one source or opinion and Te/Fi tries to get Ti/Fe to expand its resources or perspective. Ti/Fe wants to self indulge and Te/Fi wants to criticize.

[Slacker]

I would think valued Ti, but maybe weak and valued Ti.

[Jarno]

I'm open to all sources but tend to rely more on university sources.

yes they can be biased, but more often not.

[Slacker]

Two people I know who have this tendency are EIE and ESI. It could be just weak logic in general to take it to that extreme maybe. I can see myself holding one source of information as much more relevant than another, though I think I tend to try to have as many sources as possible. Also, if this person didn't want to argue, it's possible that was an attempt to end the argument. "Na na na na I can't hear you." Might be more complicated than just something that would happen to one type.

[jughead]

Yes it is but this "Conflicting viewpoints because of different valued elements. It has happened during talks with my INFp friend about music and also a couple times while discussing typology on forums " is what happened.
The other person is ILI. I agree though that rationals in general are less open.

[EyeSeeCold]

Yes it is but this "Conflicting viewpoints because of different valued elements. It has happened during talks with my INFp friend about music and also a couple times while discussing typology on forums " is what happened.
The other person is ILI. I agree though that rationals in general are less open.

You're not seeing the underlying processes. Me and my friend clashed because he was intent on sticking on a certain selection of artists. I was trying to widen his interests but he really didn't care. Quality>Quantity for him. This relates exactly to Ti vs Te and the way one approaches sources.

It also happened during my typology discussions because people were unwilling to trust the sources I gave them. They preferred to believe their initial source(s) and count everything else as wrong because it didn't conform to their biases.

[jughead]

Except in this case he was purposing quality of the university over quantity. He was using Fi in my book to just go with his trusted source. I was using Fe/ti logic filters to incorporate quality information myself at the expense of quantity that i could learn because i have to filter it which takes time.

[EyeSeeCold]

No no.

Ti/Fe is analytical versus Te/Fi comparative. I am ILI. They were IEI. We conflicted because I "knew what was best" through comparing the practicality of different sources. They "knew what was best" by analyzing the consistency of their sources.

[jughead]

this is exactly what im saying what is not registering. I just said it less succintly and akin to the actual situation. But also he himself said he did not trust my sources nor my logic which is ludicrous to me and he was just self protecting.

[jughead]

You didn't use ti here to see my te because you prefer te. Boo.

[jughead]

On a side note my Te became 3d for a moment as i envisioned peoples streams of output.

[jughead]

Here's another example of my own Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi.
When listening to music I will jump around songs, albums, radio stations etc according to my mood and need.
The ILI I know will live on a complete album or pandora etc and let it fly.
I don't like these stations or certain songs off albums because they are filler, and because they often stream in shitty quality and they use overly compressed music that sounds flat and lifeless and defeats the point for me of listening to music. I would use them if they could just bump the quality (and many stores are upgrading music bitrate quality because people complain of the same) and if they would have more quality in music.(kill the gay commercial over-compression) I'd say overall sales in music are down because there is too much Te valued, production at the too much expense of quality. Hence why many are forsaking commercial cds (vinyl is a consistenly better quality sales are up), or recorded music and seeking live shows (also up). There is a golden mean between the two and thats whats said about "the center of power", where betas and gammas strive for the golden ratio.

[EyeSeeCold]

Here's another example of my own Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi.
When listening to music I will jump around songs, albums, radio stations etc according to my mood and need.
The ILI I know will live on a complete album or pandora etc and let it fly.
I don't like these stations or certain songs off albums because they are filler, and because they often stream in shitty quality and they use overly compressed music that sounds flat and lifeless and defeats the point for me of listening to music. I would use them if they could just bump the quality (and many stores are upgrading music bitrate quality because people complain of the same) and if they would have more quality in music.(kill the gay commercial over-compression) I'd say overall sales in music are down because there is too much Te valued, production at the too much expense of quality. Hence why many are forsaking commercial cds (vinyl is a consistenly better quality sales are up), or recorded music and seeking live shows (also up). There is a golden mean between the two and thats whats said about "the center of power", where betas and gammas strive for the golden ratio.

You're mixing different perspectives here.

Perspective 1: Many artists/genres vs few artists/genres
Perspective 2: The best songs vs an album
Perspective 3: Random vs selective
Perspective 4: Technical quality versus aesthetic quality

1.) Fi/Te derives quality from comparing artists horizontally. Ti/Fe concludes quality from an artist's output vertically.

2.) Not strictly type related. No one needs to listen to a whole album, nor is everyone focused only on singles.

3.) Not type related.

4.) Not strictly type related, although different types may have different approaches. I also care about technical quality, but I don't let that get in the way of enjoying my music.

-----------------------
You sort of deviated...but what's all this about the golden ratio?

[The Ineffable]

I think he's some Se/Ni-Creative: Beta or Gamma Rational. Out of the four, the most likely to be like that, from my experience is ESI, the least likely being LIE, IMO.

[Aiss]

I bet that was the same obvious and typical Ni-dominant neat freak we've heard about before, wasn't it, jughead?

Sorry but your beef with ILI and Te in general is the funnier the less like ILI or Te whatever you say of him (them?) sounds. At least when I bitch about ESEs I try to listen to people who point out unrelated stuff etc. Or put a rant disclaimer there.

[jughead]

I like to bitch and will use stuff thats not type related. You obviously knew some stuff was not type related though, its harder for me to cut through that and use straight logic. Everyone does this honestly. Yes it was the same ILI as before. But still its why I put it under "is it type related" so others could sort through what is and what isn't.
Wouldn't I be a Fe/Ti type by confirming my own biases here?
golden ratio was referring to partially to gulenko's centripedal law of communication which I tentatively and partially accept. I used golden ratio to describe the optimum center of society and its working.

He doesn't like my information approach because he sees it as slow and inefficient, I take too long to check the internal consistency of ideas. He prefers to just take whats from his school regardless of whether its right because its efficient and is a previously proven and accepted source. I have no problem with it other than he seemed to not want to bother taking any info outside of the program, me and an ILE discussed this in passing as common for those especially in so called "elite" universities or programs.

I really doubt that I am ESI, if thats who you were referring to. LSI i see as slightly more likely.

Also I would say ILI is more likely than either of those too. Perhaps I'm bitching at my identical.

[EyeSeeCold]

Okay I think I see what you're getting at now. He(being ILI) is only accepting professional sources right? I do that to. It's like this:

Perspective 1 - Obscure material vs widely known material
Perspective 2 - Trusting credentials vs trusting abilities.

1.) Te/Fi tends to commit the second choice because of devalued Ti. It's easier and usually less risky to go with accessible material.

2.) Ti/Fe is more likely to commit the first choice. Position or title is believed to give evidence to competence and credibility. Fi/Te knows that isn't always true and so ignores authority.

[Aiss]

FFS, not this again. Why does it need to come back again and again like this?

Ti/Fe: you blindly trust information from arbitrarily chosen sources!
Fi/Te: you arbitrarily choose sources and blindly trust their information!

What sane, sensible person doesn't question what they learn? I agree there are differences between Ti and Te - I'm often frustrated beyond belief with Ti-valuers over this - but it's a bloody oversimplification to assume so-and-so of the opposite one.

The point is, Te doesn't *accept* or *reject* anything absolutely; it focuses on external standards, for example comparing how two experiments with differing results were conducted rather than assuming results are equal pieces of data or choosing one, or whatever. It reviews and contrast, and from that an idea of the matter emerges, implicitly, it is NOT any particular opinion accepted at one's own, nor an absolute logical rule. It's kind of like "experience"; it isn't something to be captured by describing any particular skills but it often turns out to be valuable. I find it hard to imagine that a Te-ego wouldn't want to compare information from many different sources - especially since I see it as very helpful in learning or understanding the issue to have multiple perspectives, and a source is a perspective if only because of the selection of information - but I have no idea what's the type of the person in question, and that's not what I'm trying to argue just now. (I might be focusing on -Te here, for obvious reasons.)

One thing I'd like to understand about Ti types is why they don't seem to get it, aka why you can't *use* a source without being accused of being a blind follower (in more moderate terms, most of the time). Considering their own insistence that it isn't because they do so themselves and therefore it isn't a personal projection, I've no idea where it's coming from. Honestly they often make me feel like it's so accurately conveyed in this video:

[jughead]

Fuck the semantics the vibe of ILI's is black death to Fe.