View Poll Results: If I'm Alpha NT, am I most likely to be

Voters
5. You may not vote on this poll
  • LII because I'm antisocial, detached, pensive and lazy

    2 40.00%
  • ILE because I'm wacky, irregular, emotional and inconsistent (and I fit ILE reinin dichotomies)

    3 60.00%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 55

Thread: If I'm Alpha NT, am I most likely to be

  1. #1
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default If I'm Alpha NT, am I most likely to be

    LII because I'm antisocial, detached, pensive and lazy.

    ILE because I'm wacky, irregular, emotional and inconsistent (and I fit ILE reinin dichotomies).

    Because I do believe myself to fit the most with traditional alpha NT IM interpretations, and probably alpha quadra descriptions. I relate strongly as N, and semi-strong with T. I don't feel I have the hard logic, any sense of confidence and consistence, or strong system development to be an LII, and I don't feel I have the expressiveness, energy and active creativity to be ILE, yet I feel like I should be alpha because those two IMs and the values seem to vibe with me the best. So would I be more Ti-ILE or Ne-LII? What is it, if alpha? ILE seems like it might make more sense you know because I always create and adopt new logical viewpoints all the time, and am pretty Ne, good at inventing things when I'm in the mood, but I'm really not all that outer-world focused or extroverted, I spend way to much of my time alone contemplating or just reading and can't stand always "sensing" things around me, but in my little area and my mind. I still like to explore the outside by myself in an adventurous light, and can be somewhat active then, and might sometimes pace or do activities to think, make up games for mental stimulation, but overall I'm not activated. I'm not fed by sensory stimulation, I am the opposite. I think if lived by myself I'd be a lot more free to roam around, and play games, I guess I just like being alone, but when I am alone I can then be quite wacky and energetic, and esp try to find sugar stimulants. But that still makes me all in all with proof that I'm not and I keep to my thoughts and am low energy. Like I said I'm wacky, irregular, emotional and inconsistent, and also antisocial, detached, pensive and lazy. You know me and how I am on the forum, but if you didn't know that I'm quite introverted its true, but if that doesn't stop you from thinking what type I am, let me know. I fit I N T and P dichotomies the most, but reinin makes it to where E N T and P fit the most, and I've always gotten that, even though it doesn't directly make much sense (unless I'm misinterpreting what E really means in Socionics) ? Or I'm misinterpreting J ?

  2. #2
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    As far as not being J or Ti dominant, I don't follow my own logic, I always have to create something new for novelty every time, and I don't find myself analyzing things a lot, even though I question myself every time, I don't go that deep into all the logical detailes. I don't follow through with most of my commitments. In my small realm of interests I don't feel as though I go that deep into them. I'm fairly go with the flow and don't really feel being "rational," I feel fairly irregular and irrational most of the time, and most people will tell you that my actions are not really "spontaneous," but definitely don't make a lot of sense, and my thoughts even more so. I feel like a fairly chaotic and disorganized person, just not in the "spontaneous" sense.

    I also fit more ILE descriptions, but not when they say I'm an extrovert, talkative or good leader. LII descriptions are too analytical and logical sounding, and sounds like they're really looking for a lot of specific answers and a deep understanding, where as ILE has more creativity and inventiveness that seems to fit me, just not introversion. (correction, actually some descriptions of ILE have said they can be rather quiet and thoughtful) but there's a lot of people on here who say they're not. I am fairly thoughtful, just not in a strongly logical sense.

    Just pretend for a second that I don't vibe with a lot of Gammas or how they put things, because I've felt that way a lot in getting to know them, that they're a lot more serious and factual about everything, and don't have the same creativeness, Ne-ness, infantile behavior, etc, that they tell me I have or that I pick up on.

  3. #3
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,606
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    blah. how might you see Fi polr manifesting for you?

  4. #4
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    blah. how might you see Fi polr manifesting for you?
    I do really feel a lot more F-hidden agenda than S, because I feel like I'm really both F and T, yet I have some kind of F weakness that has to do a lot with being proper and establishing bonds with people. I'm very distanced with people, and I never how people really feel about me, ignoring personal relationships with most people, but I do have this kind of caution about myself not to go overboard with the jokes and annoy people. I guess it mostly feels like I don't connect with others much at all, and I run from trying to do so.

    I could easily just was well try to explain why I'm Se-PoLR.

  5. #5
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I also feel rather depressed all of a sudden when I find out someone dislikes me, and has some kind of conflict with me by saying they dont like me, or making fun of me. And I have recurring fears about relationships that have gone bad. It seems to come down to relationships and not being good at them, and things coming back to haunt me. It feels like how maybe the vulnerable function might react to something like that (at a very stinging unexpected level it happens), and Fe HA is requiring for people to like me in order to function. Becuase I felt that I should just leave places where people are showing they don't like me or have no interest in me, and I try to perceive that they do and that I'm special or something.

  6. #6
    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    Ne-LII, 5w6
    Posts
    3,648
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I fit I N T and P dichotomies the most, but reinin makes it to where E N T and P fit the most, and I've always gotten that, even though it doesn't directly make much sense (unless I'm misinterpreting what E really means in Socionics) ? Or I'm misinterpreting J ?
    I don't know... when I first read about the Reinin dichotomies I thought they're really great. But nowadays I'm doubting their merit for typing purposes. It's quite likely that you concentrate too much on a single dichotomy and less on the overall picture, imho. Subtypes also have such a deceiving character. Many people seem to know their subtypes before they know their basic type and explain their deviations from that with subtype traits.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  7. #7
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't really have a good INTj description that would fit me, but I remember reading this a month ago and it really fit me well: http://personalitycafe.com/entp-foru...socionics.html

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I don't know... when I first read about the Reinin dichotomies I thought they're really great. But nowadays I'm doubting their merit for typing purposes. It's quite likely that you concentrate too much on a single dichotomy and less on the overall picture, imho. Subtypes also have such a deceiving character. Many people seem to know their subtypes before they know their basic type and explain their deviations from that with subtype traits.
    I think thats why I'm to a large extent confused, because I don't know how types are really "supposed to be." Someone says one thing, and another says a contradictory thing. A general picture envisioned by me still generates something contradictory to things lots of people will say, so I need to know if there are variants because there aren't a lot of Socionics descriptions that do fit me well.

    I would say that some ILE and ILI descriptions have fit me the most, but a lot has lead me to believe that I'm not a Gamma or Se/Ni valuing.

  8. #8
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Neither, because your reasonings for both of them don't sync up to the types in question. If I'm just reading the descriptions, I'd have to go with the first one because I'd say you're far from being wacky, irregular, or inconsistent.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  9. #9
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Neither, because your reasonings for both of them don't sync up to the types in question.
    Hah, thanks for keeping me in mind for Delta :wink: (I'm guessing), or maybe you're just trying to make a point that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way, sounds fine to me. However, it does seem like I'd be an "Ne-INFj" on the basis of Jungian typology and Socionix, I've looked a lot into that as well and it makes sense. The huge thing I'm worried about is that traditional Fi description about typical Fi and EII descriptions seem not to fit me at all, they sound like an overly polite, highly relational, girly, politically correct figure that's sort of opposite from me. I've never found one description fitting me, like I have for ILE and ILI.

  10. #10
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Hah, thanks for keeping me in mind for Delta :wink: (I'm guessing), or maybe you're just trying to make a point that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way, sounds fine to me. However, it does seem like I'd be an "Ne-INFj" on the basis of Jungian typology and Socionix, I've looked a lot into that as well and it makes sense. The huge thing I'm worried about is that traditional Fi description about typical Fi and EII descriptions seem not to fit me at all, they sound like an overly polite, highly relational, girly, politically correct figure that's sort of opposite from me. I've never found one description fitting me, like I have for ILE and ILI.
    The problem though is that you're sooooo IJ. Everytime I see you on tinychat your energy is just so consistently low and stagnated. Calling you "wacky" or "inconsistent" are opposites of what I'd use to describe you.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  11. #11
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Everytime I see you on tinychat your energy is just so consistently low and stagnated.
    This is often true, I don't like move around everywhere all the time. I feel like I go on tinychat when I need some excitement because I'm tired or bored. I'm not really high-strung. I only have bouts of high and random explorative energy, especially when no one is there or I'm not "focused" on something, only then will I be different. Though:

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Calling you "wacky" or "inconsistent" are opposites of what I'd use to describe you.
    That's a little odd to say. I think most people would disagree. Also, its all about energy and such, what about personality, and the type descriptions that don't go off of physical aspects I said I related to? I certainly can't just limit myself to what I've already said about being low energy, as there are more areas of a type to look into.

  12. #12
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Once you understand, you have a hard time understanding how you could have not understood, or is that just me?

    Do you take in new dimensions produce static conclusions(systems)?
    Do you take in new systems(analyses) and produce new dimensions?
    Do you take in new fields and produce dynamic conclusions(applications)?
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  13. #13
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Do you take in new dimensions produce static conclusions(systems)?
    This sounds exactly like what I do often, in a very inconsistent way.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    You sound a lot like me, and I am ILE. I fit with every one of those words you used to describe both LII and ILE.

    I still haven't really found an entirely satisfactory description of the E vs. I dichotomy, save for that it alters the function orientation. While it is true that extroverted types tend to be outgoing and social and introverted types tend to be withdrawn and antisocial, it is not necessarily true. It goes both ways. Personally, I identify more strongly with INTp when going by the dichotomies but the functions just weren't right. (Ne-Ti and Ni-Te are very different and it shouldn't be too difficult to determine which is closer to you if you are considering these two types). I even identified as INTp with the Reinin dichotomies (which I later came to find was due entirely to misunderstanding of a few of them).

    If you know that you use Ti-Ne as your ego functions, then it shouldn't be too hard to determine whether you are LII or ILE. LII's, being Ti dominant, primarily create logical systems and methodologies. ILE's, being Ne dominant, primarily consider potential or possibilities of an idea or situation. From the way you described yourself, you definitely seem more irrational, and you pretty much nailed Fi PoLR exactly.

    Then there are the Reinin dichotomies... like MegaDoomer said, I don't think the Reinin dichotomies or subtypes are intended to be definitive, but they are useful tools.

    Just for reference, what LII and ILE Reinin dichotomies do you disagree with?

  15. #15
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,606
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    i might not know your type but one thing i'm quite sure about is you're not Fi polr. umm..

    1. what are the chances of relating a lot to jungian Fi but having it as a polr in socionics. i'm not going into whether or not jungian descriptions are applicable, blah, blah...but it just seems very odd to me.

    2. everybody feels at least a little shitty when they get made fun of or find out somebody doesn't like them. i don't understand this reasoning. even if its a major focus for you...idk. i'm sure it would hurt to get hit with a blunt object as well, but that wouldn't be a point for Se polr.

    3. i dont relate to the proper and moralizing descriptions of EII either, you'll drive yourself nuts looking for a description that actually fits you without exception.

    4. i wouldn't describe you as wacky at all.

  16. #16
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,606
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    also i like your avatar

  17. #17
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    You sound a lot like me, and I am ILE. I fit with every one of those words you used to describe both LII and ILE.

    I still haven't really found an entirely satisfactory description of the E vs. I dichotomy, save for that it alters the function orientation. While it is true that extroverted types tend to be outgoing and social and introverted types tend to be withdrawn and antisocial, it is not necessarily true. It goes both ways. Personally, I identify more strongly with INTp when going by the dichotomies but the functions just weren't right. (Ne-Ti and Ni-Te are very different and it shouldn't be too difficult to determine which is closer to you if you are considering these two types). I even identified as INTp with the Reinin dichotomies (which I later came to find was due entirely to misunderstanding of a few of them).

    If you know that you use Ti-Ne as your ego functions, then it shouldn't be too hard to determine whether you are LII or ILE. LII's, being Ti dominant, primarily create logical systems and methodologies. ILE's, being Ne dominant, primarily consider potential or possibilities of an idea or situation. From the way you described yourself, you definitely seem more irrational, and you pretty much nailed Fi PoLR exactly.

    Then there are the Reinin dichotomies... like MegaDoomer said, I don't think the Reinin dichotomies or subtypes are intended to be definitive, but they are useful tools.

    Just for reference, what LII and ILE Reinin dichotomies do you disagree with?
    Thanks for responding, it was unexpected. I remember greenantler also thought we could easily be the same type ILE, identified with various ILE descriptions, the reinin, and related a lot to how we put Fi-PoLR, Ti-creative, Ne-dominance, etc and we were pretty sure we were INTP in MBTI. I know for a fact that I'm INTP, and I would find it odd that an "INTP" would be high-strung. But also know that I fit various versions of ILE that have been professionally described in Socionics well, and not the ENTP stereotype. Einstein was an INTP, and perhaps I'm more introverted than he was.

    I've had trouble knowing if I'm really Ne dominant or Ti dominant tbh. There are things that can be said that I'm either, which if there weren't I don't think I'd have this as a recurring question to ask for help. But I do feel like how ILE is described, aside from extroversion, sounds very close to me, more than most of the types. Like LII, EII, IEI dont as much as ILE in description, that is what is so interesting about identifying with recurring themes of this type.

    As far as Reinin dichotomies go, I don't think I've had a problem with any one of them. I've always fit all the ILE ones, when I began. Perhaps I could do a more extensive analysis on which ones I do fit and why, but I typically just go by my memory about what I remember thinking of them. Because I used to look them over a lot more, and I don't think any one has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    1. what are the chances of relating a lot to jungian Fi but having it as a polr in socionics. i'm not going into whether or not jungian descriptions are applicable, blah, blah...but it just seems very odd to me.
    True, but I mean you read Socionics Fi descriptions and Jungian Fi. I relate not well at all to the typical Socionics one, yet I do the Jungian one. That obviously means they're different.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    2. everybody feels at least a little shitty when they get made fun of or find out somebody doesn't like them. i don't understand this reasoning. even if its a major focus for you...idk. i'm sure it would hurt to get hit with a blunt object as well, but that wouldn't be a point for Se polr.
    Well yeah, that's not what I would define Se-PoLR as, but why wouldn't you see me as Fi-PoLR if you had to use the traditional Socionics description of it? That is a different question, and I stated why I don't relate to it.

    I'm happy you're trying to help me out. Thanks

  18. #18
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Do you take in new dimensions produce static conclusions(systems)?
    By produce I mean output(hurdurr). Granted I haven't seen everything in the universe, but it seems ILEs are quick on their systems. They set up situations for the potential, and may not look back so often on their "systems" if the potential has been milked.

    Do you take in new systems(analyses) and produce new dimensions?
    LIIs work with a system, for the system itself and produce new insights but these are side-effects of the strength of the system.

    Do you take in new fields and produce dynamic conclusions(applications)?
    ILIs are quick on their applications as the goal is new fields, or a greater awareness of their objects. Accuracy or consistency is subject to production.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  19. #19
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    By produce I mean output(hurdurr). Granted I haven't seen everything in the universe, but it seems ILEs are quick on their systems. They set up situations for the potential, and may not look back so often on their "systems" if the potential has been milked.
    I do this, for example, more often with Socionics as a kind of hobby, finding interesting potential angles and making them just as soon abandoning a system for it, and I've invented various systems for other things that are pretty simple and haven't required a lot of thought, always keeping in mind the potential of it first. That seems to be what I feed off of when I get mentally excited, its not the idea of really going deep, but like pure experimentation. I take it seriously nevertheless it usually not yielding a practical result. You will often see me experimenting with some new thoughts / angles I try to treat as though they're true, on the forum, and then abandon that perspective in light of something newer.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    also i like your avatar
    Oh thanks. I like it too. And I like the text above yours, I just noticed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    LIIs work with a system, for the system itself and produce new insights but these are side-effects of the strength of the system.
    This sounds like a good short description, and something I certainly don't identify with because I don't hold on to systems or really work with systems in any depth. I'm consistently inconsistent

  20. #20
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,606
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    poli-

    you say jungian and socionics descriptions are different because of how well you "relate" to one and not the other. which imo is perfectly legitimate but its not exactly a clear logical deduction...more like an ethically-based kind of reasoning. i'm not trying to diss on your logic skills or anything, lol. i do the same thing...draw conclusions based on the feelings of relation i have with things. i'm not sure if a Ti ego would do the same, but even if they did i think they would probably describe it differently out loud or externally justify it in some way. i don't know if this means anything conclusive, but its just something i noticed.

    and idk, i don't think i supervise you lol.

  21. #21
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,606
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    poli - i'm glad you like my user title since i got it from something you said in the chatbox. i should probably credit you there. shit, where did MY Fi go? haha

  22. #22
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    you say jungian and socionics descriptions are different because of how well you "relate" to one and not the other.
    This is indeed a type thread is it not, and the purpose of asking? I don't think I've described "relating" to things very often in normal Socionics discussions, usually only Socionics discussion about how I could not be this type anymore, or wondering what my type is. Also, me not being able to "relate" to a type, an indication of weak Fi. I got your back.

    Don't worry, I know you're talking about Jungian Fi. I completely understand

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i do the same thing...draw conclusions based on the feelings of relation i have with things. i'm not sure if a Ti ego would do the same, but even if they did i think they would probably describe it differently out loud or externally justify it in some way. i don't know if this means anything conclusive, but its just something i noticed.
    Yeah, not sure. I think I've been back and forth on this too, so I couldn't say with certainty, because I'm not always personal about it, nor am I always logical about it. Obviously you must agree that there is some obvious level of human activity going on to be able to relate to something personally, and having uncertainties about it or not. Though uncertainty has often been classified as something more related, seeing different perspectives and not knowing which, or a change of perspective. That's how I relate to it in a quite recurrent way, and it might be that you actually don't relate to uncertainty in that regard as much as I do, but in an actual soul-searching ethical way. I've always changed my type based on looking at various systems, and not often by how I am or different, which could be why I might be irrational: logic producing and not ethics producing.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    poli - i'm glad you like my user title since i got it from something you said in the chatbox. i should probably credit you there. shit, where did MY Fi go? haha
    No need, the cream corn dangle stick has been passed down.

  23. #23
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I do this, for example, more often with Socionics as a kind of hobby, finding interesting potential angles and making them just as soon abandoning a system for it, and I've invented various systems for other things that are pretty simple and haven't required a lot of thought, always keeping in mind the potential of it first. That seems to be what I feed off of when I get mentally excited, its not the idea of really going deep, but like pure experimentation. I take it seriously nevertheless it usually not yielding a practical result. You will often see me experimenting with some new thoughts / angles I try to treat as though they're true, on the forum, and then abandon that perspective in light of something newer.
    You may be ILE, but you shouldn't assume to quickly.

    This sounds like a good short description, and something I certainly don't identify with because I don't hold on to systems or really work with systems in any depth. I'm consistently inconsistent
    I think tcaudilllg is a strong example of LII. With his advanced form of Socionics, there is all kinds of potential yet he's pretty deliberate about following new perspectives.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  24. #24
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    You may be ILE, but you shouldn't assume to quickly.
    I've been debating these types for a long time, and have read descriptions and recurring ideas about Socionics a lot, I feel as though me as LII personality wise just doesn't make enough sense yet. There are no good LII descriptions for me, they seem to be describing rather LIIs I know on here, and I've talked with people in my past who think I'm ILE and gave me rather fitting information about the type. I'm just not into stereotypes. I'm definitely not assuming too quickly, I think that's the least of my problems. I'm still here to listen and try to change my type to something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    I think tcaudilllg is a strong example of LII. With his advanced form of Socionics, there is all kinds of potential yet he's pretty deliberate about following new perspectives.
    Yes, and just a side comment is he reminds me kind of of Bolt, or rather Bolt reminds me of him, because they both have some advanced knowledge of their own system and have been developing it and searching all the various perspectives, like a Ti with creative Ne feel. But I don't want to say he's not ILE either, it might be that Bolt is just very more so established in what he's learned by now and has a lot of confidence in his information, whether it be valid or not, and is into a lot of theoretical experimentation compared to the more established LII types. If not oh well, but it wouldn't be surprising that he's Ti dominant or Ne dominant.

    Quote Originally Posted by he died with a felafel View Post
    poli, just some minor thoughts here, in case you're interested. they're only based on posts of you i've read here and there, so i don't know if they're any reflection of you irl.

    imo perceiving leading function (irrational type) seems more fitting for you.

    you don't strike me as someone whose primary way of interacting with the world is Ne, fwiw. your point of departure quite often seems to be the "self" or subject. this would make me think introvert. combine with point above i'd say Ip type.

    i'd also be hard-pressed to see how you're Fi-PoLR, haven't noticed anything to support that.

    if you're Te-creative, perhaps you're not focused on Te. you *could* be heavily Ni. not sure i could describe you as someone whose leading function is Si, never seen anything to support that either.

    as for dichotomies, don't know which ones aren't making sense for you. at any rate, alpha democracy, for instance, is quite different from gamma democracy. they're almost "opposites", for lack of a better word.

    my 2 cents
    Thank you, can you elaborate on the two styles of democracy for me? For the most part it does seem like it comes down to ILI or ILE, because those are the only descriptions and points being made I can relate to, however, traditional explanations of Alpha IMs seem to fit me a lot better, and as lots of people say Ne, and I have trouble relating to other Gammas or Gamma quadra descriptions, and seem to get along fine with Alphas and Alpha values. Like I said just earlier though, there are different interpretations for all of these, and that's why I am confused.

  25. #25
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,097
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If both the reinen dichotomies and the general ENTp description fit well, that's usually good enough. That is unless you feel strictly introverted.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  26. #26
    ._. Aiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    2,015
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you're so unique you can't relate to anyone enough to consider them for an identical, perhaps you could consider people that annoy you and see if there are patterns of how they do that.

  27. #27
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    If both the reinen dichotomies and the general ENTp description fit well, that's usually good enough. That is unless you feel strictly introverted.
    Well even though I do feel introverted (yet for some reason not in Reinin dichotomies?), there is always a catch with every type, and its hard for me to say one is more valid than the other. ILE just seems to be the most relateable type with the least amount of catches at this point. People and descriptions have said that ILEs are one of the extrovert types that can go introverted and be rather more pensive and anti-social, and I am not going to take that for granted being that I relate the most to a lot of other points being made about the ILE type. So I do still have a hang up with the idea, but its the best I've got concerning Classical Socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    If you're so unique you can't relate to anyone enough to consider them for an identical, perhaps you could consider people that annoy you and see if there are patterns of how they do that.
    Perhaps, though it seems like there's always someone in every type that may annoy me at different times, and can't identicals annoy each other? I'm definitely taking into consideration intertype relations when I attempt to decide, and I feel in general that "alpha" is where I'd lean right now, and not overlooking "delta."

  28. #28
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    You sound a lot like me, and I am ILE.
    Finally a 16typesmember with brains...

    Yeah, I see poli as ILE-Ti.

    Poli shows signs of creativity and brainstorming. But not the ILI kind of creativity. ILE fits him nicely.

  29. #29
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,614
    Mentioned
    158 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    The problem though is that you're sooooo IJ. Everytime I see you on tinychat your energy is just so consistently low and stagnated.
    This has very little to do with type, by the way.

  30. #30
    Executor MatthewZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If the universe were a giant pair of underpants, the milky way galaxy would be...

  31. #31
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,606
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    if i'm supposed to be supervising poli then i am doing something very wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Finally a 16typesmember with brains...
    if you're going to arrogantly imply that you're one of only a couple people here with brains, then at least back it up by actually saying something more than "he's creative and brainstorms but not like an ILI." lol wtf.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This has very little to do with type, by the way.
    i don't understand why not. don't temperaments show in energy levels? (this sounds snippy after what i've written already, but i'm really trying to understand your thoughts lol.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    If the universe were a giant pair of underpants, the milky way galaxy would be...
    a dingleberry?

  32. #32
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wallachia
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    2,195
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I also feel rather depressed all of a sudden when I find out someone dislikes me, and has some kind of conflict with me by saying they dont like me, or making fun of me. And I have recurring fears about relationships that have gone bad. It seems to come down to relationships and not being good at them, and things coming back to haunt me. It feels like how maybe the vulnerable function might react to something like that (at a very stinging unexpected level it happens), and Fe HA is requiring for people to like me in order to function. Becuase I felt that I should just leave places where people are showing they don't like me or have no interest in me, and I try to perceive that they do and that I'm special or something.
    Even if I <you know what I mean>, I don't necessarily dislike you. You're simply not my piece of cake, I'm not into absurd humour, neither relativism, neither humanism, and whatever else you belong to.
    I think that you should not draw generalized conclusions, to feel like stigmatized or something, at least I don't see you as some kind of person that will be rejected by anyone. Maybe you have unrealistic aims, that you should be liked by everybody - I used to think like that years ago, maybe all people in their lives. I realized that when I fail at someone or something (eg a company) it's because we're simply not made for each other. I sometimes struggled to please by getting out of my way, and after being accepted realizing that I actually am the one that don't like what I've got and either leave or obstruct. No gain, in any case.

    And you know what? I observed that truly being myself, I'm more liked by the people than when I try to catch all the balls. Really. Maybe I'm a bit clueless, since to be myself means that I don't give a shit about what others think of me, but still I think that's the case, things work smoother with many people. But it's tricky to find what this "true self" is, some people become unnaturally relaxed and careless, believing somehow that that's how a "natural" person should be, but that's bullshit. If your nature is to be careless, then fine, if not - then it's something else entirely. Get what I mean?

    And in fact, if you can't be yourself or suffer because of people, so what? It's like the difference between sadness and joy none is worse, they're just two emotions specialized for different cases. You're neither the first, nor the last in this situation. Life goes on .
    ---

    Btw, about that "haunting", maybe it's not the same thing but I often get haunted by things I said or done, sometimes I simply sit and something reminds me of something awful, for example something embarrassing, so my heart begins to pound, I feel the creeps, and then in minutes it's over. Because I'm anyway random and unpredictable, I have often lows and highs, I can't tell whether this affects my moral, but apparently not.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

  33. #33
    Imagine Timeless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, CA.
    TIM
    ILE/ENTp
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    a dingleberry?
    And the stars would be a pubic lice.

    polikujm: Next time I see you on tinychat, I'm going to talk to you.
    Last edited by Timeless; 01-14-2011 at 09:22 AM.

  34. #34
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    And the stars would be a pubic lice.

    polikujm: Next time I see you on tinychat, I'm going to talk you.
    Lol poli, better watch out eh!

  35. #35
    Imagine Timeless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, CA.
    TIM
    ILE/ENTp
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Lol poli, better watch out eh!
    LOL. That sounded kinda threatening huh?

  36. #36
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    LOL. That sounded kinda threatening huh?
    It did a bit

  37. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,489
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know what type you are, I don't see you contribute much other than your own particular style of humour, which seems more 'within' than out.

    Just to throw it out there, maybe a low activity SEI

    Whatever your type, it's irrational over rational imo.

  38. #38
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Finally a 16typesmember with brains...

    Yeah, I see poli as ILE-Ti.

    Poli shows signs of creativity and brainstorming. But not the ILI kind of creativity. ILE fits him nicely.
    Yes, and I know just what you're talking about.

    Though I wouldn't say that MBTI is the same, because as it exists as an already developed community and not a frame of perspective, ie) ENTPs of the community are typed it because of their social tendencies, and some INTPs (like Einstein) who are obviously introverted, are ILE. (MBTI also has statistics of INFJ in 1% and their duals in 12%, which I doubt in Socionics).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    Even if I <you know what I mean>, I don't necessarily dislike you. You're simply not my piece of cake, I'm not into absurd humour, neither relativism, neither humanism, and whatever else you belong to.
    I think that you should not draw generalized conclusions, to feel like stigmatized or something, at least I don't see you as some kind of person that will be rejected by anyone. Maybe you have unrealistic aims, that you should be liked by everybody - I used to think like that years ago, maybe all people in their lives. I realized that when I fail at someone or something (eg a company) it's because we're simply not made for each other. I sometimes struggled to please by getting out of my way, and after being accepted realizing that I actually am the one that don't like what I've got and either leave or obstruct. No gain, in any case.

    And you know what? I observed that truly being myself, I'm more liked by the people than when I try to catch all the balls. Really. Maybe I'm a bit clueless, since to be myself means that I don't give a shit about what others think of me, but still I think that's the case, things work smoother with many people. But it's tricky to find what this "true self" is, some people become unnaturally relaxed and careless, believing somehow that that's how a "natural" person should be, but that's bullshit. If your nature is to be careless, then fine, if not - then it's something else entirely. Get what I mean?

    And in fact, if you can't be yourself or suffer because of people, so what? It's like the difference between sadness and joy none is worse, they're just two emotions specialized for different cases. You're neither the first, nor the last in this situation. Life goes on .
    ---

    Btw, about that "haunting", maybe it's not the same thing but I often get haunted by things I said or done, sometimes I simply sit and something reminds me of something awful, for example something embarrassing, so my heart begins to pound, I feel the creeps, and then in minutes it's over. Because I'm anyway random and unpredictable, I have often lows and highs, I can't tell whether this affects my moral, but apparently not.
    Thank you for taking time to read. Well we do sound similar, just from listening to you on the forum all this time, your way of putting things into perspective, and I have the same perspective on what you say about ourselves and people in general. I don't feel like I beat myself up over anything too hard because my perspectives always change, I get back to a neutral stance on things fairly quickly, and I always see the other side of things. I can be different one day, and some might say I'm acting fake, but you know I can adapt or play a different card, I'm not afraid of not being myself (even though it is myself, see? ). I'm mainly afraid of doing something foolish and over the top, and might second guess myself because something is not publicly normal to do, and might yield to people seeing me as much too weird and shun me (and this leads to more wariness about Fe as well as a general social introversion, having fears of the limelight). But lets say if there is someone who is pumping me up full of positive emotion/energy and it resonates through me, I have no doubt in my mind I can outperform myself no matter what, that is I can either sometimes be spontaneous and do even wackier things, or in a neutral state of mind I feel that today is a good day and things are looking up for me. It all really depends on who I'm around as I'm fairly adaptive. I don't get a lot of attention in my daily life, as I'm in my thoughts and learned to not expect it. But when I'm in a positive limelight, backed up by a true feeling of comradery, then I can prove to be hyper-creative and amusing, that is I feel comfortable being somewhat social and that let's people know that I am rather weirder than what they had in mind.

    I speak of Fe and socializing, but it's really just not a part of my character, and I don't consider myself really to be much of a humanist, humanitarian. Really from getting to know me I'm much more of a theorist and researcher, or interested in mental creations, scifi and possibilities, overall I'm just imaginative and thoughtful but not much in relation to the human element. I am though definitely a relativist. I'm one of the least opinionated people I know. In regards to Fe, it feels in general, emotiveness and feeling expression, as a hidden agenda, I experience as its always something that comes to me and resonates in a soft way, and I experience it through writing and playing symphonic music, but not something I personally give off or am good at giving off (explained more a the bottom of my post), and Ti as (I think we've discussed before) a creative (not primary) function, but one to draw from in little bits and theorize from a non-biased perspective often. It is good with helping me invent and see categories for any of my interests, in a creative pursuit. I always have a sense of potential first and foremost (and that always seems to be the true source of creativity where as Ti is what "can be changed" or "form a new idea using knowledge of categories or systems"). There is not much of a chance I'd think that Ti is my dominant function from reading and witness how they are, or Fi as my dominant as it is explained in Socionics. I think I'm much too open to how things work and the possibilities (filling in what's really there with options) and lack wanting to make judgment, even though I think I've learned that I can be good at judgment. I just feel like remaining relative and open, it seems naturally more comfortable. Some of the ILE descriptions make a very good case for me as Ne+Ti and all the extra things added in. With ILI (a few other descriptions that might fit) does not make complete sense and pins me with the wrong quadra, but both have reasonable instances of being right. IJ type descriptions seem never to fit.

    I have often thought I'm both T and F dichotomy, as I fluxuate near evenly as a balanced human, but most of the time it is T, and I think people who introduced me to MBTI and studied it have not seen me as F enough, and I don't feel as though I connect enough to the ethical element to be considered F. Though I think I've come to realize that I do connect well to Fe (emotion/expression) in an obviously non-ego way, as it comes in and out of consciousness a reminder of my passion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    polikujm: Next time I see you on tinychat, I'm going to talk to you.
    Sure, sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I don't know what type you are, I don't see you contribute much other than your own particular style of humour, which seems more 'within' than out.
    This is quite true it is often more "self-humor," as I have problems connecting with people in the right way. It could be related to ILE's PoLR function. I've heard various people tell me that my humor is alpha in nature, and I like and relate to the humor of other ILEs on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Just to throw it out there, maybe a low activity SEI

    Whatever your type, it's irrational over rational imo.
    I think I've lately come across as stronger in F because of expression of my hidden agenda and a lack of dualization (becoming a faulty dual). It doesn't seem like the same thing as being my normal 'silly' or 'witty-esque' self, however it's often me saying something weird and sometimes unrelated (and that is not really "funny humor" that's just me either being bored or trying to make a valid point. I don't think various people actually understand this and think I'm trying to be funny ) SEI or IEI is kind of a misstep with Fe-creative, but thank you I can see why you might say that's possible. I have personally liked much of how SEIs, especially Fe subtypes, are, the way their ideas and music expresses very serenely and paints an unique aesthetic picture. It's kind of hard to explain, but there's a certain feel to it. In talking to greenantler about being ILE, this was a main reason which seemed fairly identifiable as to why SEIs are my dual, because of this difficult to explain attraction of something I can easily now identify of their essence. Serene is the word used for SEI, but there is something else that brings SEI and IEI together in it. Esp. Fe-subtype, there's a way they are able to alter sound and word expressions in pleasant ways, and play with their voice, and an SEI I once knew would always be intruigingly dancing and humming to herself, a good appreciation for lyrics as well as aesthetics. I'm not at all overlooking this as something irrelevant, it's a very stimulating part of my dualistic attraction and not something I am good at doing. Of those I know they seem to have an overall dormant enthusiasm and positive attitude towards life.

  39. #39
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Once you understand, you have a hard time understanding how you could have not understood, or is that just me?

    Do you take in new dimensions produce static conclusions(systems)?
    Do you take in new systems(analyses) and produce new dimensions?
    Do you take in new fields and produce dynamic conclusions(applications)?
    I think I'm starting to understand what LII does now, the mirror process. I guess I never looked at it totally that way before, because I've been so into thinking and learning about other stuff, but this actually makes a lot of sense now, hah. I mean I certainly don't relate to it, I'm like the mirror of it. Veerrrry innnteresting, thanks for sparking this insight. For some reason it reminds me of MBTI Ti as the "dominant" way of seeing everything, for some reason I didn't catch on entirely (Ti enfuses its system with the world/perception) It's very obvious using this concept why Ne dominant would fit me perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    While it is true that extroverted types tend to be outgoing and social and introverted types tend to be withdrawn and antisocial, it is not necessarily true. It goes both ways. Personally, I identify more strongly with INTp when going by the dichotomies but the functions just weren't right.
    personalitycafe ENTp
    Even though they are extroverts, ENTps may demonstrate a subtle tendency towards reservation. Those who have had problems establishing friendships may manifest a quiet nature and a lack of general outgoingness, one day appearing social and friendly only to be indifferent or avoidant the next. Over a period of time specific social patterns may develop, appearing unfriendly and reserved to some and friendly and open to others.
    And this seems definitely true, as living proof it seems easily verifiable. Extroversion in the context of Socionics doesn't necessarily mean social ability or attentiveness to the world around you even though it is recommended as a proper correlation. Even if Ne in a number of people is often focused on what's going on around oneself, it doesn't have to be (which is what Socionics is trying to say.) It makes sense that Ne+Ti or Ti+Ne could both be stereotypically introverted, I see no contradiction, because extrovert dominant here is merely a focus on the internal static object, of anything, physical or mental.
    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    I still haven't really found an entirely satisfactory description of the E vs. I dichotomy, save for that it alters the function orientation.
    Attentiveness to the object, I guess. I'm not going to say that I don't often focus on external objects around myself, like I need something tangible to look at, but I certainly will say that I don't need to seek out new places and faces every day and am not focused much on activity involving physical reality.
    Last edited by 717495; 01-14-2011 at 05:42 PM.

  40. #40
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are many perspectives on type and functions.

    Ti-Ne ego also implies that you "creatively" use conceptual aspects to avoid physical aspects. For instance, building a mech to protect you from actual fighting.

    Ne-Ti ego implies that you "creatively" use observable associations to avoid implied associations. For example, acknowledging explicit connections to people/objects to protect you from having to measure how you truly feel about something or how close something really is to you.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •