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Thread: INTj killers

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    Default INTj killers

    ESE, that is.

    I got a typical one:
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    nice try, but I'm still alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    nice try, but I'm still alive.
    I was expecting that. You're partially immune to your Semi-Dual .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    I was expecting that. You're partially immune to your Semi-Dual .
    IT BEGINS

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    I was expecting that. You're partially immune to your Semi-Dual
    Don't go thinking I failed litmus test or something.

    it is a nice tune I'll admit. She can be ESFj.

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    Btw, I'm not trying to claim that LIIs who see ESEs - Duals, in general - feel powerful attraction, in fact it's a bit the opposite. I actually have done a test on an old LII friend of mine and he pointed me towards Gamma SF females (at least my first impression), in any case not the typical ESE by far. (and like I said, my "ideal woman" before experiencing Duality was some sort of IEE/IEI/ESI - certainly not some chubby one like the usual Alpha SF) So let's say that these are LII killers after LIIs experience Duality at least once.

    About my video, Emiliana Torrini in that specific one is to me the quintessence of the ESE, as of VI, it's exactly what I - and rather Parasite, who can recognize ESE very easily - have in mind when I think about the appearance of this type.
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    She's related to Bjork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Ne HA is painful
    Not as nearly as painful as Fe-Base or Te-Base.
    Last edited by Trevor; 03-02-2011 at 03:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    IT BEGINS
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Ne HA is painful
    Hmm I'm curious if we're thinking about the same thing. I was trying to understand what turns me off about ESE females (and LSE, for that matter), compared to their Irrational counterparts. I think that they have something animalistic in them, something too wild, impetuous, kinky, direct and explicit (imagine pinching a strong but nimble animal, or those cabaret dancers). I don't have sexual experience with XSEs, but I imagine that they're those "Are you a man or what? Come on, throw it in!" so, dunno, it's kinda scary and discouraging - seem focused on "getting the job done". It's like they pursue something in a hurry and don't accept someone changing his mind or stepping back + it all looks like a set-up.
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    This isn't even weirder than the average among song clips. I mean, there's some pretty crazy stuff out there.

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    The video is weird and kinda unsettling. It struck me as being rather European Eurovision song contest, so I wasn't sure if it was cultural or she was trying too hard.

    I mean, even the costume...she's trying to be an orange? Cause oranges grow on trees and there's trees in the jungle? Sounds like a scrabbling around for Ne, trying to connect the jungle, the drums, the costumes, the 'acting'.

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    If you're seeing socionics symbols in that vid, it's your Ne that's weak. And in as far as that thing raises a wtf-effect it's so obviously intentional I'm at a loss as to how to explain it to a person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    If you're seeing socionics symbols in that vid, it's your Ne that's weak. And in as far as that thing raises a wtf-effect it's so obviously intentional I'm at a loss as to how to explain it to a person.
    I actually didn't realise they'd go to the effort to make a video that's tacky to me, unless I really am missing the point...but if it's the case, can you at least try and explain why they'd spend time and money on something so awful?

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    By catering to an audience. You're not in it. Anything more you need spelled out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    By catering to an audience. You're not in it. Anything more you need spelled out?
    Dare I say an alpha audience?

    Either that or it's the Europop music thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Ne HA is really visible to me, like when ESEs/LSEs go over the top with ideas, in ways that seem even more aimless than Ne-egos (no offense meant):



    I see the whole video you posted as Ne HA. Kind of WTF was that? Why? Ummm...???
    Oh yeah, that's different. In fact I like that . It's some sort of purity, of innocence and genuineness, they don't try to "transmit" something, like a "smart" idea, to take some attitude or position, or - like you said - to aim at something. Just I didn't think that it's necessarily Ne-HA, but weak+valued Ne, maybe, because IMO SEIs are even more like that.
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    Dare I say an alpha audience?
    Probably a little broader than that. Your tiny little insignificant opinion means jack in that regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Probably a little broader than that. Your tiny little insignificant opinion means jack in that regard.
    LOL @ LSI vs IEE

    labcoat, get ready, I expect a Delta rescue squad to jump on your in less than a minute .
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    LOL @ LSI vs IEE
    LOL indeed. The typing is hilarious no matter how many times you repeat it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Probably a little broader than that. Your tiny little insignificant opinion means jack in that regard.
    WTF?

    It's obviously alpha and clear case of Ne HA, read the basics of HA, this thread and quadra values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Group Behavior
    Inclination for comfortable and pleasant group atmosphere, in the emotional, sensorial, and intellectual aspects. An ideal Alpha group situation is the exchange of light-hearted jokes while discussing imaginative ideas, movies, or sometimes sports, all while enjoying pleasant food and drink. Narrating personal experiences usually takes the form of telling a joke; funny personal experiences are preferred over "serious" ones. The exchange of sober concrete details are avoided. If the group is playing a game together, the fun and jokes that go along with it are at least as important as the game itself. They avoid generating "heavy" moments; any dramatic expressions are limited in time, most often in service of a joke. Alphas are also perhaps the most likely types to participate in group use of mind-altering substances. Alpha discussions tend to go off on tangents, in whatever direction seems most interesting or funny at the moment. Unusual personal observations are common, resulting from the analysis of the idiosyncrasies or inconsistencies of everyday life. If many in the group share the same observations, they are likely to express their agreement emphatically, so as to create a kind of "mental harmony" which enhances the group dynamic. If a new problem is encountered, it is expanded and developed in as many ways as possible, until some kind of satisfactory conclusion is reached. Alphas make no distinction between "insiders" and"outsiders", easily drawing people into a conversation once it has begun — though they tend to just as easily withdraw if the person is not receptive. Likewise, they prefer to have the same behavior at work as at play; they find formal speech and dress to be pretentious, unnecessarily limiting, and even ridiculous. Alphas dislike the idea that there is something going on "behind the scenes", preferring to keep things(especially personal motivations) as open and straightforward as possible....
    You'll see the videos full of such childish behaviours, or it's just you can't admit you're wrong.

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    I said broader than alpha, which incorporates alpha. Look, I'm done laying out the basics of life to you and you are sorely ruining my mood. This is the last I will say to you on this matter.

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    labcoat, I'm not reasserting my typings, but rather point out the typical interaction between these types. Say that you're an LII, you should admit that - exceptionally - your remark was rather a genuine Se-Creative one, at least.

    Edit: "insignificant little" - lol. Btw, what was your typing on Nicole Horne?
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I said broader than alpha, which incorporates alpha. Look, I'm done laying out the basics of life to you and you are sorely ruining my mood. This is the last I will say to you on this matter.
    Considering it's a music video this is as close as you'll get to a socionic typing for it. You can imagine other quadras doing this video? The closest you'll maybe get is ENFp because of the Ne, and Beta is less playful. Take the opposing quadra Depeche Mode and you've got the complete opposite of this video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Labcoat
    If you're seeing socionics symbols in that vid, it's your Ne that's weak Ne.
    So obviously this is wrong. I dunno how you make such blanket statements, maybe you're ISTj after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    So obviously this is wrong. I dunno how you make such blanket statements, maybe you're ISTj after all.
    IT BEGINS

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    (I promise I won't interfere any longer)
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    If you're seeing socionics symbols in that vid, it's your Ne that's weak Ne.
    So obviously this is wrong. I dunno how you make such blanket statements, maybe you're ISTj after all.
    The comment was about elaborate theoretical symbols such as "Ne HA", not more tangible things such as actual typings.

    Considering it's a music video this is as close as you'll get to a socionic typing for it. You can imagine other quadras doing this video? The closest you'll maybe get is ENFp because of the Ne, and Beta is less playful. Take the opposing quadra Depeche Mode and you've got the complete opposite of this video.
    Read back the thread. I don't challenge the view that the woman in the vid is ESFj anywhere. And yes, the audience is likely centered on her fellow alpha SFs but not restricted to that. All of this repeats what I have said in this thread already. My god. Up to this point I was just joking, but it turns out you really are that dense.

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    Erm, I read the thread and this:


    ESEs try to discover, and point out, the unexpected, funny and bizarre side of things, as long as it is in an emotionally-positive way (rather than dark and gloomy), and appreciate the company of people who do so easily.

    Describes an aspect of the video pretty well, that's ESFj HA, doesn't seem that abstract a leap to me. BTW I've known SEIs do something similar too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt
    Hmm I'm curious if we're thinking about the same thing. I was trying to understand what turns me off about ESE females (and LSE, for that matter), compared to their Irrational counterparts. I think that they have something animalistic in them, something too wild, impetuous, kinky, direct and explicit (imagine pinching a strong but nimble animal, or those cabaret dancers). I don't have sexual experience with XSEs, but I imagine that they're those "Are you a man or what? Come on, throw it in!" so, dunno, it's kinda scary and discouraging - seem focused on "getting the job done". It's like they pursue something in a hurry and don't accept someone changing his mind or stepping back + it all looks like a set-up.
    At least for ESEs, I think this applies to Si sub-types more, as they're a bit rougher than the balanced or Fe sub-types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    ESEs try to discover, and point out, the unexpected, funny and bizarre side of things, as long as it is in an emotionally-positive way (rather than dark and gloomy), and appreciate the company of people who do so easily.
    Describes an aspect of the video pretty well, that's ESFj HA, doesn't seem that abstract a leap to me. BTW I've known SEIs do something similar too.

    At least for ESEs, I think this applies to Si sub-types more, as they're a bit rougher than the balanced or Fe sub-types.
    I'd rather say the issue with this video which is blamed on Ne-HA (regardless of however abstract it is) is that on their own, ESEs take the most trivial and obvious idea, then go around demanding praise for their "creativity". /fades into the background again

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    Erm, I read the thread and this:


    ESEs try to discover, and point out, the unexpected, funny and bizarre side of things, as long as it is in an emotionally-positive way (rather than dark and gloomy), and appreciate the company of people who do so easily.
    This is not even a description of a weakness or defect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    This is not even a description of a weakness or defect.
    Maybe maybe not, it sure annoys some non-Ne valuers, so class that as a defect if you want, or if yuu don't wanna see signs of Ne HA - Ne valuing in that video then who cares apart from maybe you. BTW go to the last paragraph where I re-address this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss
    I'd rather say the issue with this video which is blamed on Ne-HA (regardless of however abstract it is) is that on their own, ESEs take the most trivial and obvious idea, then go around demanding praise for their "creativity". /fades into the background again
    Yeah this is true, when they either get hold of a new perspective on something or some potential of some sorts, there not strong enough to assess if it's good, how much the potential is there, how much to use it etc (or how to come up with it themselves).

    Anyway going back to Labcoat, I dunno what to say Labcoat, to me the video is tacky and it's using different perspectives etc of the whole 'beating of the drum' and jungle stuff etc in a sort of amateurish way, but coming across as though it's great anyway. That this is an example of weak but valued Ne - ie not very good at (and as per the rest of the post), and yes it's a weakness at something, whether you can acknowledge that or not. BTW it's tied in with an Fe flavour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I'd rather say the issue with this video which is blamed on Ne-HA (regardless of however abstract it is) is that on their own, ESEs take the most trivial and obvious idea, then go around demanding praise for their "creativity".
    I think it's you who project the intention of boasting some "merit" on ESEs - and I find myself often in this situation of being projected hubris when I trumpet loud my findings, because of an alleged "recognition" that I intend to use in the future. To make a comparison is exactly like accusing someone for having an interest while he/she simply wanted to help, without any implication of future debt, which is again applicable to ESE/ILI - both being pretty much among the essential elements of the conflict between these types. The ILI is reluctant to accept that some people do/show things for/to others just because they make them feel good, and also that not anyone needs a "copyright", recognition of merit or future profit for what he/she currently does.
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    Maybe maybe not, it sure annoys some non-Ne valuers, so class that as a defect if you want, or if yuu don't wanna see signs of Ne HA - Ne valuing in that video then who cares apart from maybe you. BTW go to the last paragraph where I re-address this.
    Look, if you're already annoyed by it when a person is just behaving in a positive way (which is all the passage describes), you suffer from some misanthropic personality disorder. This is not socionics related. If you mean what you say, you need help. Quick. Most if not all types in whatever quadra you are in would not want to be around you with that kind of psychopathic mindset.

    Yeah this is true, when they either get hold of a new perspective on something or some potential of some sorts, there not strong enough to assess if it's good, how much the potential is there, how much to use it etc (or how to come up with it themselves).

    Anyway going back to Labcoat, I dunno what to say Labcoat, to me the video is tacky and it's using different perspectives etc of the whole 'beating of the drum' and jungle stuff etc in a sort of amateurish way, but coming across as though it's great anyway. That this is an example of weak but valued Ne - ie not very good at (and as per the rest of the post), and yes it's a weakness at something, whether you can acknowledge that or not. BTW it's tied in with an Fe flavour.
    It's only Ne weakness when the Ne types decide it should be corrected. There is nothing wrong with this clip. It is exactly what it should be. It is only your aesthetic sense that is at fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Look, if you're already annoyed by it when a person is just behaving in a positive way (which is all the passage describes), you suffer from some misanthropic personality disorder. This is not socionics related. If you mean what you say, you need help. Quick. Most if not all types in whatever quadra you are in would not want to be around you with that kind of psychopathic mindset.
    What? I didn't say me. An example in the thread (remember you told me to read the thread, did you) is user ananke eho described it as 'painful'. Let's see, I'm dense, she's got a personality disorder, possibly psychopathic, you get all this from a post, or maybe It's you...


    It's only Ne weakness when the Ne types decide it should be corrected. There is nothing wrong with this clip. It is exactly what it should be. It is only your aesthetic sense that is at fault.
    Right, its good to get lectured on aesthetics from an S PoLR. Source me people who wear her dress and maybe i'll believe you.

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    What? I didn't say me. An example in the thread (remember you told me to read the thread, did you) is user ananke eho described it as 'painful'. Let's see, I'm dense, she's got a personality disorder, possibly psychopathic, you get all this from a post, or maybe It's you...
    None of that was in reference to the quote you used. Stop changing the topic.

    Right, its good to get lectured on aesthetics from an S PoLR. Source me people who wear her dress and maybe i'll believe you.
    Se is the caveman function. It has nothing to do with aesthetics. Aesthetic skill is probably evenly divided between intuitive and sensing functions. The intuitives more easily see aesthetics on an abstract plane and the sensors more easily find the concrete materials to realize aesthetic projects with. Yet another area in which you abuse socionics to the point of delusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    None of that was in reference to the quote you used. Stop changing the topic.
    Then what's it in reference to? Re-read and you'll see the line of conversation.

    Se is the caveman function. It has nothing to do with aesthetics. Aesthetic skill is probably evenly divided between intuitive and sensing functions. The intuitives more easily see aesthetics on an abstract plane and the sensors more easily find the concrete materials to realize aesthetic projects with. Yet another area in which you abuse socionics to the point of delusion.
    When I read the descriptions on socionics.com, a common theme is S types have good aesthetics and N types are unconfident in this regards. BTW I didn't know I was typed as Se ego.

    Even at that, the theory states that you're strong in both sides of the dichotomy, ergo Se demonstrative:

    The individual is confident of his ability to recognize and evaluate the physical condition and well-being of himself and others, aesthetic sensations, and the internal effects of sensory stimulants such as good food and relaxing situations. He can provide a convincing evaluation of these when prompted, however, he regards soothing, relaxing things and discussions of them as sources of amusement rather than a priority in life. He does not treat them very seriously or allow himself to engage in them very often, despite his overall confidence in these areas. When he does choose to focus attention on his physical condition and well-being, he is more likely to prefer a approach and impose a strict, demanding dietary or exercise regimen upon himself or others.
    As to what you say, sources or GTFO, I grow tired of your ramblings.

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    Then what's it in reference to? Re-read and you'll see the line of conversation.
    It wasn't even said after the quote was posted. I bet she was referring to something that would happen in the future then.

    When I read the descriptions on socionics.com, a common theme is S types have good aesthetics and N types are unconfident in this regards. BTW I didn't know I was typed as Se ego.
    You'll also notice the S stuff always refers to jobs like picking clothing that have fuck-all to do with real aesthetic appreciation and only with bringing aesthetics about in practical ways.

    As to what you say, sources or GTFO, I grow tired of your ramblings.
    People can think for themselves. I don't need to reference some crackpot authority to make them realize the idea is right. Crackpot authorities are the only thing socionics has to offer where sources are concerned.

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    People can think for themselves. I don't need to reference some crackpot authority to make them realize the idea is right. Crackpot authorities are the only thing socionics has to offer where sources are concerned.
    I don't actually disagree with this, but you don't sound any different from the others, and fanatics in general, as you've only given ad hominems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    I think it's you who project the intention of boasting some "merit" on ESEs - and I find myself often in this situation of being projected hubris when I trumpet loud my findings, because of an alleged "recognition" that I intend to use in the future. To make a comparison is exactly like accusing someone for having an interest while he/she simply wanted to help, without any implication of future debt, which is again applicable to ESE/ILI - both being pretty much among the essential elements of the conflict between these types. The ILI is reluctant to accept that some people do/show things for/to others just because they make them feel good, and also that not anyone needs a "copyright", recognition of merit or future profit for what he/she currently does.
    You didn't understand me at all if you think my issue was with them "wanting recognition" or whatever. It was about making a big deal out of something trivial, obvious.

    Also "copyrightedness" is not type related, FTR. There are people of all types that are all for freedom or for limiting it, in all things. And they have various reasons. Socionics might be the how, but it isn't the what of one's beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    You didn't understand me at all if you think my issue was with them "wanting recognition" or whatever. It was about making a big deal out of something trivial, obvious.
    Well you said that they demand praise for their "creativity", it was not me who made it up.

    Though looking at things the way you want now, what's the problem in making a big deal of something trivial? That's equivalent to simply being excited about something, regardless whether it's "special" - or whatever you have in mind - or not. Without projecting the Se/Ni values on ESE, there's really no problem with their attitude, IMO.

    And so you can make a better idea, note my view on the Gamma Rationals: they're essentially imitators and plagiarist. From Jack London to Diskworld; but here the difference between me and you comes: I'm trying to get rid of the bias of my quadra, in fact I thought that your statement was put in this context, "a Gamma-centric view on the ESE", but apparently you're absolute about it. I am perfectly aware that something that was never done before, that is not acknowledged or recognized is incompatible with the Gamma values, so I can understand that what they view as originality is impossible to be even close to what I do. Think about it.
    Also "copyrightedness" is not type related, FTR. There are people of all types that are all for freedom or for limiting it, in all things. And they have various reasons. Socionics might be the how, but it isn't the what of one's beliefs.
    Then you didn't understand why I quoted "copyrightedness" - which is not a valid term, btw - so you didn't catch the idea in the context. It's the same as "benefit", "usufruct".

    You say that "anyone can do that", but in my experience - what's also hinted in the descriptions - is that Te types don't do anything without a possible benefit in mind. It's natural to think that as long as someone often uses an argument like "what do you earn from this?", "what's the gain?" in certain situations, you can track his/her reasons in other situations down to a certain interest, when he's apparently benevolent.

    But to Alphas, because of the way they are (I don't include Beta because they have Se valuing, aiming at influence and recognition as well), suggestions that they don't follow the truth for the sake of it, or help/advice someone because they simply like/want it and that's all - are simply misrepresentations. As a Gamma, you can't be aware of it but when you transcend your Valued limitations, as a true typer.

    It's Socionics fundamental that the values are the different and often opposite views on the same thing, so you're left with two options: to understand all these values and detach from yours in order to make an accurate description, or to make a description from your bias, which is useful to understand types, values and relationships, but on the other hand you're not the researcher anymore, but the lab rat.
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