Last edited by Slacker; 11-02-2011 at 06:19 PM.
Yeah, that's a good point.
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
I kind of agree with you in general, but I don't necessarily think this particular issue is just Te-related. Based on comparing Beta STs and Gamma NTs, the former still seem more practical skill oriented, living closer to your husband's way as you describe it, Ti or no Ti, evolving their career in a kind of one-thing-led-to-another way. While the latter's more abstract approach - regardless of somehow extreme stereotypes - is undeniable in comparison, with more focus on placing themselves in an advantageous position than on immediate skills which pay off today, even to the neglect of those ("it's going to be replaced in two or five or at most ten years; why should I learn this tech? better avoid being dependent on it, so when others are confronted with it's being outdated I'll be prepared"). I'd call it going after more "generic" skills, if it makes sense, though there are many pitfalls to this approach, some of them more obvious than others.
If people don't see economic abilities as a potential indicator of strong Te, that's another issue, though people strong in Ti are also strong in Te so Beta STs would also have strong Te. It's unvalued Te but they're still naturally strong at it.
A lot of beta ST's and gamma SF's make a lot of money and still go broke.
The mind a killing weapon
The heart an open wound
I think that strong and valued Se can sometimes lead to a desire to appear to be powerful to others, and if someone has that desire that person sometimes spends money unwisely to keep up that appearance, which can cause financial trouble.
And actually that is part of my brother's problem.
with females though this kind of thing seems to be much less pronunciated. Most ESI girls/women I know are pretty good with money (on the border between "good" and "stingy").
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
Might just be a part of living in a patriarchal culture - women don't need to appear as powerful in our world in the same way men do, so their Se doesn't show up in the same way. Although I've known some SEE woman who HAD to live in the right neighborhood and wouldn't be caught dead driving some kinds of cars. Whose kids HAVE to go to the right schools, etc. Maybe single women find financial solvency to be a kind of powerful thing when attracting men? That's the thing about IEs. They're so much more complicated than "People with strong, valued Se spend money on things they don't need to because they want to keep up with the Joneses." Maybe sometimes, but there are too many complicating factors to rely on stereotypes like that. And I guess that's why typing can be tricky!
Te will show up differently in different people, but I disagree that money is never about Te. I would also disagree that all people strong in Te are good with money.
Money is not everything. Your brother probably feels happy to have achieved such an important academic level: a prostitute can earn lot of money by doing an humiliating job, for instance.In fact, even getting his MBA is an example. There aren't new jobs being created in Michigan that require MBAs, or any new jobs for that matter, and he just sunk a boatload of money into getting an MBA that will not get him a higher salary. Compare this to my husband, who dropped out of college and now makes a healthy salary and we have no debt and are financially comfortable. Or a much bigger example is Bill Gates who dropped out of college and is obscenely rich. If you're going to use economics as a barometer for strength in Te, that is what to look for: how do you actually work with economics in your life, not what are you studying, even if you're doing well in your studies. Not to say people strong in Te will always drop out of college, just that college is not the place to look. The same is true for any particular IE.
Delta values WTF
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I know I shouldn't be laughing. But god.
I have never had an interested in business or in studying economics, but I am fairly decent at managing finances. My biggest problem is time-management. And relationships.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
^I think that's an introvert thing, moreso than a Gamma thing.
I can try and politely tolerate situations where I'm alone in the crowd, but that's about it.
To return to the topic of patience and hanging out, it's something which I find both frustrating and don't have the patience for, not that I generally have any patience to speak of, being rather a "get to the point already" sort of person.
Then it is settled. Americans are . (or maybe just a stereotype)
I'm one to rain on people's parade by not showing any interest in their new fancy things, and thinking to myself if that person is really financially secure, or why they needed to buy that certain thing. Heh, it's weird, I just don't have any real firm detailed calculation ability that S types have. I can't really enjoy a lot of material goods and pleasures, except for maybe food and limited things I've gained a personal trust in.
Two ways to type people:
2) their arguments
Nothing else is reliable. Even arguments must be scrutinized closely.
If a person can't manage their money, that's a sign of weak Te EM. Managing money can be difficult because of inattention to the range of potential outcomes of one's own situation. If you don't spend a lot of time trying to understand outcomes in depth, you're going to be caught off guard. I get caught off guard more often than not, and have usually had to beg for money off my folks for a few months or so, until I was able to get more cash. Like recently my financial aid was held up for months because of an error by uni. I had not accounted for this possibility and so was caught off guard, unable to pay rent. I probably could have stayed up in Ohio and drained dad by like, $400 a month... but I really didn't feel good about that nor that it was a very smart strategy overall. So I moved back in with him and will be staying here for probably another year or so. We save thousands of dollars a year in rent and I don't have to take out as many loans to get along on, so yeah this move will probably end up saving about $12k.
Money issues can of course be credit-related: people not paying attention to Te and so getting caught up in credit card debts, not paying attention to interest accumulation... etc. I'd call that a weak Ni IM/weak Te EM combination effect: not everyone with weak Ni IM gets in over their head in debt, but people with strong Te EM tend to be decent managers of their check books, what with all their attention to number and transactions, their willingness to study them in depth, and their curiosity with regard to numeric outcomes.
It's more a matter of personal priorities and defending their choices, philosophies of living... like SLI says you can't stick to principles to the point of causing harm (that's a blow to beta NF right there). LSE says you should suck it up for the team. ESI believes in a higher standard of justice than does LII. Yeah the super ego's conflict with the ego is pretty stark, and a reliable indicator of type.
We need a table of all those.