What do you think or would like to learn about them?
ESTj type and subtype description from socioniko.narod.ru [Shtirlits]
What do you think or would like to learn about them?
ESTJ (c) socioniko.narod.ru
Logical-sensory extrovert
(rational)
ESTj
Holmes, The Director
Sherlock Holmes - a hero of detective stories written by Arthur Conan Doyle.
Another pseudonym of this type: Stirlitz (a hero of a Russian detective book and movie).
1. Rapid, clear, sober mind. He knows how to act in an intelligent and logical way. His bearing is sporty, facial traits are sharp and coarse, as if carved from granite, and by this all – covert nervousness, high internal emotionality. His motto sounds: force, integrity and a sense of duty. He is a born scout – he collects information using all available channels until he achieves an absolutely clear picture that provides him with indemnity to act for sure.
2. "All I do is done well". One more quotation: "There is a gift which is always characteristic of great baseball players and teams. This is onslaught. This is the capability to run more rapidly then one is required to, to move more quickly than one is required to, to be more impertinent than one is required to” (Ph.Brooks). Initiative is habitual to him; he is decisive, likes to be the center of attention. He defends his ideas with guts and fervor. In front of his superiors he is not shy, even becomes aggressive. He knows that business only then goes perfectly if the necessary tempo is set from the very beginning. He does not tolerate procrastination, is an ardent struggler for quality and thoroughness in all work. A good army officer. Like Thomas Edison, a representative of this type is capable of working 19.5 hours a day.
3. "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down.
4. Belief in playing fair. He considers obedience to rules to be a strength trait. He does not tolerate slyness and deviousness, hates cheaters and dodgy folks. "Political maneuvers may produce a quick effect, but a truly lasting and tangible results can be reached only through hard work" (Kim Philby). He likes order. Having bought a new thing, he will for sure read the manual and only then will switch it on. The famous traveler Roald Amundsen managed to avoid extreme situations all his life. "Victory awaits those who keep things orderly”, he used to say, “and this is what we call good fortune". A believer in honest labour. "If everything seems to be easy, this is an infallible evidence that the worker is far from being skilled and that the work is above his competence" (Leonardo Da Vinci).
5. "A reserved force characteristic for military officers". He looks well built, has a straight bearing even if he has never served in the army. He dresses well and elegantly, but does not like to dress to demonstratively. He wears his clothes very long, and it always looks permanently fresh, as if unaffected by time. He never buys uncomfortable shoes, and makes others dress very neatly. An aesthete.
Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Dostoyevsky, The Humanist (ethical-intuitive introvert).
ESTJ (c) Gulenko
ESTJs have a characteristic upright posture often appearing as if their backs are inflexible giving the impression that they are executing a military drill. In many cases ESTJs are slim. However, larger ESTJs are not exceptional, especially when applied to women. But even in these cases the figure retains its characteristic upright posture.
Their gait and movements are sharp, tense and jerky showing an internal tension synonymous to this type. ESTJs find it difficult to remain in the same position for extended periods and will often shift about during conversation. Their clothes are mainly executive or classical in style. Men prefer the traditional suit and tie. When choosing clothes ESTJs will pay much more attention to comfort and quality than to the latest fashion. Female ESTJs do not often wear extravagant things. Even if they do try to follow fashion their choices will always maintain an element of conservatism.
In general ESTJs are very careful and cautious with their clothes. Their clothing is always neat and clean. They may keep clothes for a long time and know well how to preserve them. Even if some items are quite old they still may look like new. ESTJs do not like untidiness and carelessness in their appearance and in general. Trousers are always ironed, shoes polished, etc.
When ESTJs interact with strangers they are always polite, educated and well mannered, observing the norms of etiquette. This is especially noticeable in men when they start a conversation with the opposite sex. ESTJs do not like small talk or gossiping neither do they like having long conversations on the phone. When talking on the telephone they will often sound slightly different. ESTJs do not like familiarity.
ESTJs like to ask questions and find out facts. They do not accept foggy answers, demanding concrete data. They have an opinion about almost everything and will actively debate and defend it. ESTJs will never admit that they were not right. If they want to blame somebody for something they will find a way.
ESTJs are great supporters of practicality and do not understand and may condemn people who have fantasy or who propose fascinating but impractical projects. They do not like laziness or disorganisation. They do not like sudden changes, preferring a slow but sure advance. ESTJs act for the sake of stability. They have conservative views about family, this is especially applicable in males. In their understanding the husband has to provide, while the wife has to look after the children and the house.
Although ESTJs may appear in control of their emotions they periodically allow flashes of fury to break through. This often manifests when something goes wrong or somebody tells them how to do their job, especially if they deem that the accuser is not competent in what they are doing. In anger ESTJs may shout, throw or break things, often recalling their victims past failures.
ESTJs have a tremendous ability to work. If necessary, they can work for many hours a day, seven days a week without proper rest. Their understanding of relaxation is to lie down on the sofa watching television for a few hours and then they are ready to work again. ESTJs can not stay without work for long. They like to work and as a result they always keep themselves occupied. ESTJs often display the qualities of a good organiser.
When in dangerous situations ESTJs act quickly and determinedly, never boasting about it afterwards. They have a straight forward approach to their goals. ESTJs find it difficult to cheat making it easy to catch them out and as a result they generally have an honest reputation. ESTJs do not stand for lies forgery and fraud. They do not like shallow, frivolous or thoughtless people. They also observe customs.
ESTJ - subtypes (c) Gulenko
1) producer
Aspires to take the whole manufacturing process into his own hands. A good worker, he does not tolerate incompetence and is highly erudite in his field. He is very hard-working, may work at full stretch, and considers that only in this case he may demand the same from the others. May be abrupt in his opinions, usually defines a problem very precisely. Likes to admire his own work, emphasizes the advantages of his goods. He may develop well if the market is stable. Wears conservative clothes, the main thing for him is cleanliness, order and functionality.
2) linker
He’s good in intermediate spheres of manufacture - trade, management. He is more relaxed than the producer, very sociable, emotional, can easily make new contacts. He is frequently hospitable, loves comfort and cosiness, spending his free time out of town. He can easily handle technical director’s or manager's task.
Subtypes
These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.
This description was from www.socionics.org
Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2002
Note of editorial staff.
Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.
We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.
Logico- sensory ekstravert: CONTROLLING, ESTJ
View LSE is rapid, evaluating, cold, noting everything all around to the least details. Eyes look at the collocutor directly, into the support and, in spite of emotional luster, they seem by not very expressive. They more often ask and is obtained information, than it they issue. But strong feelings - interest or indifference, anger or happiness - are always easily read in the view of restrained LSE.
Mimicry LSE is also well-off, face napryazhenno, because of what it seems a little nervous. Lips are tightly compressed, it smiles rarely, a little stretched. Then its laughter is very infectious.
Gait usually is clear or is irregular, is angular, as if wooden. It as if "stamps step". Back the straight line, inflexible. The gestures are decisive, are sharp, confident. It is agitated, it cannot for long in one pose remain. It frequently has strong build or thickset figure, it is militarily pulled. The manner of behavior is aristokratichnaya, is official, planing. It is held on the distance, with the merit.
ADMINISTRATOR
Logical subtype is efficient, dry in the contact, it is correct, has a strict form, it is unapproachable. It is not inclined to the jokes, it is serious, restrained. It is usually laconic, but if it flares up, it is difficult to stop it. It is straight-line in the behavior and the conversation. It can manifest sharpness in the judgments, because of what it has many ethical problems. There is another extreme - can keep silent, and then, kopya of offence, it will for long avoid contact.
Beskompromissen is obstinate. Sometimes it attempts to arrange collocutor to itself by intimate or sincere intonations in the voice. This makes, if most is located to the frankness, either he wants to obtain some information or service. It is reserved, over-anxious and distrustful. It does not love to speak about feelings. It prefers to be occupied by anything useful and to lead everything to the end. It is constantly stressed, to it difficult to be discharged, to be weakened. It is subjected to the unexpected flashes of anger. It is forged in the motions.
TECHNOLOGIST
Sensory subtype is characterized by stability and fitness for work. It is very energetic, it cannot sit without the matter and it does not love to in vain lose time. It is interested in new technologies in its professional region and knows how to adapt them for its needs. It is impulsive, energetic, it knows how hotly to convince. It is exacting and strict, but sometimes it yields to the persuasions. It possesses a feeling of humor. Speech - is jerky, emotional. Frequently it is possible to note that locating, only the stretched smile. Are sometimes the attempts to draw together distance in the contact cordial, friendly gestures - embraces, by clappings, by light touchs to the collocutor. Behaves sufficiently raskovanno and unconstrainedly. It lively conducts conversation, it jokes. Epicure and aesthete. It loves expensive, qualitative and beautiful things, original dishes. It knows how to remove stress, after sitting at the table with the friends. But for long to rest for itself it does not make possible. Usually has the rounded shapes of body or tendency toward the completeness. Motions are irregular, are sharp, are rapid and are impulsive. It is sufficiently restless.
My Dad is an ESTJ. Being an ISTP growing up with him was tough. He perceives me as crazy, lazy, and messy. I notice they have really stupid outbursts of anger for no apparent reason. I admire their ability to organize and stay clean though. I wish they were more open minded.
Amazing leaders.
Just wish they would be more understanding.
tell him that you crybabyOriginally Posted by IcE
LOL... What an idiot.
Funny how you login as an anonymous pussy.
I dont have a problem with them, just they are very rigid people. They sometimes try to inflict their need for organization onto others thats all. Not very flexible.
Ive noticed this in all ESTJs, not just my father, so Ive come to accept it.
Crybaby?
Go fuck yourself.
Well, I guess the guest has determined himself to be an ESTJ, lol.
I have the same experience with ESTJs. Whenever I'm around one I feel as though evil incarnate is standing within my presence. They seem to have absolutely no concept that people want to do things of their own volition and that people might enjoy being introspective and spiritual in a their own unique ways. They're just heartless, I don't know how else to put it. I don't know how many people here have heard of Cindy Sheehan's protest in front of Bush's ranch, but an ESTJ I know has called her a traitor and a coward with a "leftist" agenda. He seems to have no clue that she's a mother who is grieving for her lost child. He has no fucking clue at all that there are good reasons for people wanting to ask Bush serious questions. But he just sees her as something of a threat to his nation that he believes can do no wrong. God, it makes me angry just to think about him!I dont have a problem with them, just they are very rigid people. They sometimes try to inflict their need for organization onto others thats all. Not very flexible.
Ive noticed this in all ESTJs, not just my father, so Ive come to accept it.
Well, we can just settle at the fact that their jackasses. At least through an infp point of view.
now now, lets keep the politics out of this!
lol
I wont even defend or try to back up the statements about the bush ranch... This is a socionics forum. I agree that they lack understanding.. I dont hate them as I respect their strive for perfection and their organization skills.
They just seem to traditional to other types... "if I had my way it would be"... Makes you wonder about different ESTJs in different cultures... They all want to keep their way of life, their religion or traditions.
Their eyebrows are so diagonally inward I believe because they get so damn furious so often... At the most pointless shit... They are so into being perfect that they cant take responsibility for failure I find, they are very good at blaming other people..
Like every type there is ups and downs. At least they can charm people better then ISTPs...
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
lol. Sorry. I didn't mean to come on too strong there.
no worries
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
I'm dating one, I think.
All that I can say is, love is hard.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
They dont have a lot of needs...seems like they're really simple in their needs. i kept trying to stress this to my infp friend, that the poor guy just wanted really simple things, but this all happened long before i knew about socionics.
They need structure...
Neatness...
Organization...
Some sort of ranking/control... As long as they see an established system with authority they can respect that even if they arent in the top ranking of the system...
They find things that are not normal (sort of three stooges humour) funny.
They seem designed to organize things and people, and are our natural leaders. They are excellent in crisis situations.
I recommend a career in the military or some sort of police service where they will thrive... Although they can be good at ANYTHING they put their minds to because they are SO much about duty... Duty to family, duty to job etc. Very traditional... Have this weird thing for old antiques (a lot of em seem to like to watch antiques road show)..
take care all.
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
I'm pretty sure you've probly met more then one, they're everywhere.actually i'm pretty sure i've met one.
i see ENFJ people.
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
Maybe, but the ESTJ is the most common male type (along with ESTP), is it not? So I'm not really all that nuts.is it just me or do people seem to have a neurosis about their conflicting type being everywhere around them?
I see more ENFp guys than any other type. They are quite easy to spot; just look for the open, gaping mouth or the John Kerry lookalikes. The hanging jaw thing is an INTp trait too, so make sure you can tell the difference (which is really not that hard to do.)
And stop degrading the ESTjs! They have feelings too, you know.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
John Kerry look alikes? What the?
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
You know, the whole "sagging eyes" thing.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
ENFPs are easy to spot...
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
The women, too?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
ESTJs have a hidden agenda that really shines through...
To be perfect. Its a twisted version of idealistic.
Its an idealistic traditionalist...
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
Yea.. its the women that are easy for me to type. Happy, mediocre, pleasing the judgers, depressed.. doesn't matter. I know instantly.
thing.
maybe in their prime...
I dont see that though, unless they compensating for something.
If you get my drift. I know you do, your enfp
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
Well with the utter lack of ESTJs on this forum, can we blame anyone for hijacking this thread...
I think not
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
I am trying to find some ESTjs that are interested in socionics, I need one to write a type description for the socion.info website. Well, I guess it is just not like the type to be interested in this sort of things anyways.
Give it up, rmcnew, I already tried. And yes, I don't think they are the type to believe in this stuff, either.I am trying to find some ESTjs that are interested in socionics, I need one to write a type description for the socion.info website. Well, I guess it is just not like the type to be interested in this sort of things anyways.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
my Dad thinks its some major bullshit...
They are way to narrow minded..
a downside of the ESTJ.
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
My ISTj father thinks it is a load of crap, too ...
yes I tried telling them about it..
They seem so "high and mighty" that they cant see the use in it.
I told one your ISTJ, and sent him a ton of links...
"Im ISTJ, so what."
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
screw that im too lazy to push facts they dont accept on to them.
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
Everywhere....
Do those exist? I'm just not seeing it...I am trying to find some ESTjs that are interested in socionics, I need one to write a type description for the socion.info website. Well, I guess it is just not like the type to be interested in this sort of things anyways.
lol, I'm just biased, Ignore me...
Even though I really believe that every type being evenly distributed is a load of crap. But, whatever.
ESTJ's? Look for the extroverted guy with the very, uh.... confident smile. They tend to like to do activities constantly. Don't talk about opinions because they will ignore them... if their not a commonly held belief, well, you shouldn't have them. You know how the scedule goes... wake up, eat, make fun of some "weird" kid a little bit, take a trip to the local tredy clothing store, call it a day.... yup. lol. Ok, I'm stopping. I know I'm exagurating.
Sorry, I'm a dick... Ignore me
They are very possessive and domineering with their opposite who is idealistic and completely submissive.Over-confident show-off who looks down on others who don't live his oh-so-sophisticated life, does not have a clue about interpersonal dynamics around him and thus steps on people's toes left and right. And very possessive. Sorry for the rant and I apologize to the nice ESTjs out there, but that guy truly traumatized me. He is the only person I know who is an ESTj. I probably shy away from them....
Makes sense, and doesnt make them wrong in that regard.
They do step on people toes, and they do think they are sophisticated at times.
Seem to like whatever music they grew up with... (never into the new stuff).
I disagree about them being trendy... Horrible dressers.
I don't really think they are trendy either but they certainly think they are. I am an INFj and I think I am idealistic but I don't do submissive well at all and I don't know any INFj that do either. I will not be seeking any ESTj regardless of the potential rewards. I will be sticking with an identical.
INFJs are more submissive once they are in the relationship...
They have such trouble getting out of bad relationships, they are idealistic...
Perhaps not before... because they are mistrustful... once the ESTJ earns their trust with his or her crude version of charm its game over!
I find ESTJ INFJ duals are one of the more popular relationships... identical sounds good though!
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
ESTjs... have very merciless quality about them. The "type looks" seem to manifest in the second half of the teens. And most Sj types have a very merciless quality to them. The ESTj is the easiest type to spot, together with the ESTp. Very judgmental, constantly giving advice on how to improve yourself and doing it for your own good. I can't say I like the ETSjs. I accept and respect them for what they are, though: Stabilizers, leaders, the cable that connects humanity to earth. Without them, God knows how messy this place would be
The ENFps, now, they are easy to spot: Just look for the person with a face that shouts out: "Welcome, I'm very happy to see you." Insta-acceptance. You can't help but feel appreciated around ENFps. Ok, so it might not be accurate. The ENFp may be different on the inside. However, on the outside, ENFps are great people.
Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.
INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
Dishonorary INFp
Baah
(Very good place for emoticons. Right-click on the one you want and select "properties" for direct link)
Reply With Quote
