Counter-sloth of Enneagram type 9

[ashlesha]

i came across a post on the enneagram institute that resonated with me a lot and i'm wondering about what you guys might think of this.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...TOPIC_ID=25227

i didn't identify with the entire thing, but certain aspects of it had me kind of reeling with how much i could relate.

I've come to the realization that I'm a particular kind of 9 that is not described at all in the literature, which I have given the term "counter-slothic nine." It is exactly as you described. Counter-slothic 9s focus so much on being aware, and fear not being aware of themselves, that they over-indulge in introspection to the point that they actually become asleep to themselves and living their lives. Introspection becomes a substitute for actually living their lives and showing up and drawing attention to themselves.

^this especially. i haven't seen anything like this in mainstream descriptions but i feel that there is something to it.

thoughts?

[Creepy-male]

Ezra had a thread about counterpassions a while ago. Basically, this is the Nine's version of that. A Nine running through their counter-passion will, as described, spend a great deal of time obsessing over "knowing themselves" without making any effort towards self-improvement.

Indolence as the Niney issue is in the sense of not addressing your personal failings, because it's seen as an overwhelming ordeal. You can be aware of them and say "Ack! Too much!" or you can tune them out, or even focus self-improvement in secondary aspects (like being a hard worker (speculation), or focusing on competency/artisanship (what I do) or what have you).

[The Exception]

I'm a type 5 with a strong supporting type 9 score. I can certainly relate to the counter-slothness characteristic.

[Number 9 large]

i came across a post on the enneagram institute that resonated with me a lot and i'm wondering about what you guys might think of this.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...TOPIC_ID=25227

i didn't identify with the entire thing, but certain aspects of it had me kind of reeling with how much i could relate.



^this especially. i haven't seen anything like this in mainstream descriptions but i feel that there is something to it.

thoughts?

Sounds like 6 compulsive overthinking

[squark]

Sounds like 6 compulsive overthinking

and 9s disintegrate to 6


. . .in other words this may just be how disintegration shows up for that 9, and so makes sense why a 6 might identify with aspects of it.

[malignantwench]

Sounds like 6 compulsive overthinking

Haha yep.

and 9s disintegrate to 6


. . .in other words this may just be how disintegration shows up for that 9,

No amount of disintegration is going to make a 9 overthink the most tedious thing.

[Bertrand]

that link is broken for me, anyone have a fix?

[JC1]

It actually is described in the literature. This is usually the Social 9, which his explicitly referred to as the counter-type 9.

The Social Nine - "Participation" (Countertype)Social Nines express the passion of psychological laziness (or sloth) through merging with the group, working hard in support of group interests, and prioritizing the group’s needs above their own. Social Nines are congenial characters with a need to feel like they’re a part of things-a need that expresses an underlying feeling of being different or not fitting in with the group or community. This person is a light-hearted, sociable, fun-loving character who expresses a driving need to be involved in the group.

The Social Nine’s need to participate comes from their deeper feeling of not belonging to the group. This feeling drives the Social Nine to overcompensate by being generous and sacrificing whatever is necessary to meet the needs of the group as a way of earning membership. They have an intense need to feel that they are a part of things, because they don’t feel that they are. They feel like they have to do something extra in order to be included in a group, so they work twice as hard to support the group to make sure they belong.

Social Nines have a passion for doing what is necessary to pay the ticket for group admission, for being one with that group-but it takes a lot of effort. Social Nines can be workaholics; they feel a need to work hard and give a lot. But it’s not just work-they energetically demonstrate friendliness and sociability; they don’t show their pain; they don’t burden others; and they don’t show people how much energy it takes to devote so much effort to the community. These are people who are generous and unselfish, mindful of the group, and gifted in meeting the needs of others to the point where they sacrifice themselves to satisfy the responsibility others want to put on them.

In contrast to the other two Nine Subtypes, who tend to be more subdued characters, Social Nines are very outgoing and energetic-this is what makes this the counter-type Nine. Social Nines have a special brand of strength because they feel motivated to fight for the needs of the group. Social Nines are extroverted, expressive, and forceful, and so they go against the inertia typical of Type Nine in some ways-but on the inside they still have a sense of laziness about their own needs and wants.

Social Nines make very good leaders-the best kind of leaders, in fact-in the sense that they are good, unselfish people who strive to satisfy the responsibility given them. They can be especially gifted mediators; they naturally want to translate differing opinions so that everyone is heard and conflict in the group is avoided. They put a lot of energy into their work as a leader. They have an ability to bear a lot, sometimes to the extent that they become a “human punching bag.” These Nines give of themselves unconditionally as a response to a deeper (sometimes unconscious) fear of abandonment, conflict, separation, and the potential loss of peace and harmony.

Social Nines like to control things, and they like to talk a lot. Because they work so hard for the group, they may have no time left for themselves. They tend to have very full lives-full of everything but themselves. And while Social Nines get their identity and their sense of reality form belonging, they often doubt their own existence, their own sense of self.

The outward expression of this subtype is more happy than sad, but theirs may ultimately be a kind of partial participation: underneath their cheerful exterior, their sense of not belonging persists and creates a kind of sadness that isn’t communicated to others. They don’t feel their suffering very much-but they don’t feel extreme, euphoric highs, either. They are more in the middle emotionally-neither hot nor cold-and they may be somewhat detached from their emotions and sensations.

Social Nines can look like Type Threes because they work very hard and accomplish a lot without showing the stress of it. But they differ from Threes in that they are much more reluctant to be in the spotlight and they don’t support the group to create an image or to win admiration from others. They may also be mistaken for Twos because they are active in meeting the needs of others, but they have much less need for approval and appreciation than Twos, and are generally more emotionally steady.



Maya, a Social Nine, speaks:

I was raised as part of a group. Growing up in a large family with five siblings, I often found myself mediating between family members in order to reduce conflict and to promote tolerance, understanding, and consensus. Around controversial dinner table topics, for example, when the conversation got heated, I was often in the middle-translating, explaining, and trying to get each side to see the other’s point of view. As a result, I did well leading groups. In high school, for example, I was president of several different societies and clubs. In my early career, I often succeeded in setting up groups that promoted teamwork and cohesiveness, including a volleyball team. Today, I still screen the environment, especially new ones, to know how to best fit in and orient myself quietly to the needs of the whole. When making a decision that will affect an entire group, I like to hear all the different opinions, synthesize them, and then consolidate them in my mind before making a decision. My feelers are always out, reading the milieu around me.



Specific Work For The Social Nine on the Path from Vice to Virtue

Social Nines can travel the path from laziness to right action by getting in touch with any sadness that underlies their upbeat, congenial demeanor and identifying the ways in which their hard work for groups might distract them from their own personal evolution. If you are a Social Nine it will be important for you to slow down and take the risk of sharing more of yourself with others, especially your deeper needs, wants, and feelings. Right action means knowing what’s going on in your depths and not being afraid to surface any sadness, anger, or discomfort so that you can allow yourself to be moved by your own personal motives instead of your desire to support others. Stop hiding what is going on inside you as a way of staying comfortable and work to further your own interests as much as you work to further then needs of your family or community. Notice any fear of abandonment, conflict, or loss of peace you may feel, and allow yourself to be with those feelings as a way of loving and supporting yourself. Own the ways in which you are part of the group and take in how much people value your hard work and support as a way of actively addressing your deeper needs for belonging.

https://www.personalitycafe.com/type...-chestnut.html

[malignantwench]

What do you believe is the 9's sloth? Any type can be slothful. The 9 basically grew up with the assumption that they shouldn't assert themselves and if they do then it'd cause trouble. I mean even though I have a heavy-ish wing, I still assume that asserting myself will cause some kind of uproar. People that ask a lot of questions about every little detail of enneagram generally tend to be 6s practically 6w5s. 9s aren't known for being inquisitive and overthinking even if they are disintegrated. I have been disintegrated myself and I have only related to the 'being overcome with angst' bit of the type 6.

[squark]

What do you believe is the 9's sloth? Any type can be slothful. The 9 basically grew up with the assumption that they shouldn't assert themselves and if they do then it'd cause trouble. I mean even though I have a heavy-ish wing, I still assume that asserting myself will cause some kind of uproar. People that ask a lot of questions about every little detail of enneagram generally tend to be 6s practically 6w5s. 9s aren't known for being inquisitive and overthinking even if they are disintegrated. I have been disintegrated myself and I have only related to the 'being overcome with angst' bit of the type 6.

You're probably not even a 9 . . . especially considering how you go around without hesitation enforcing your own viewpoint, acting as though you are the sole holder of all knowledge on the enneagram and the 9. In other words for someone who claims she has problems asserting herself, you sure assert yourself a lot. Constantly. In every post.

[malignantwench]

You're probably not even a 9 . . . especially considering how you go around without hesitation enforcing your own viewpoint. .

Wow, so triggered. Enneagram isn't based on behaviour or traits.

acting as though you are the sole holder of all knowledge on the enneagram and the 9.

Newflash: Any flipping type can do this.

In other words for someone who claims she has problems asserting herself, you sure assert yourself a lot. Constantly. In every post

You have no idea how much I hesitate, you literal moron. I try to avoid conflict a lot but the people here are too stupid to ignore. This is exactly why I avoid posting stuff about myself because bitter people will tag me about it.

[squark]

You have no idea how much I hesitate, you literal moron. I try to avoid conflict a lot but the people here are too stupid to ignore. This is exactly why I avoid posting stuff about myself because bitter people will tag me about it.

yeah, you totally try to avoid conflict. The absolute paragon of self-control. Looks to me like you just don't like anyone calling you out on your bullshit.

[malignantwench]

yeah, you totally try to avoid conflict. .

Yes, I do. You just see my reaction and not my hesitation. You are just choosing to be ignorant at this point.

The absolute paradigm of self-control.

Well, if you weren't biased then you'd see that i'd been goaded into reacting by several people.

Looks to me like you just don't like anyone calling you out on your bullshit

The OP's bio literally says she is a 6. The only one that is BSing is you, stupid.

[SaveYourself]

What do you believe is the 9's sloth? Any type can be slothful. The 9 basically grew up with the assumption that they shouldn't assert themselves and if they do then it'd cause trouble. I mean even though I have a heavy-ish wing, I still assume that asserting myself will cause some kind of uproar. People that ask a lot of questions about every little detail of enneagram generally tend to be 6s practically 6w5s. 9s aren't known for being inquisitive and overthinking even if they are disintegrated. I have been disintegrated myself and I have only related to the 'being overcome with angst' bit of the type 6.

This isn't meaning to cause a fight - so please don't take this as an attack.
But sloth is literally the vice of type 9.
Screen Shot 2018-09-21 at 18.24.29.png

I'm curious as to why you took issue with discussion of sloth with type 9 when this is the case? Ofc any type CAN be slothful but 9 is the one that has it as their prime passion.

[malignantwench]

This isn't meaning to cause a fight - so please don't take this as an attack.
But sloth is literally the vice of type 9.
Screen Shot 2018-09-21 at 18.24.29.png

Yes but it's not the Oxford dictionary's definition of sloth. It is an internal sloth - a resistance to be effected by life.

I'm curious as to why you took issue with discussion of sloth with type 9 when this is the case?

I'm not taking issue with the topic of sloth. I just doubt the OP is a 9 like the other guy did.

[Bertrand]

enneagram is d u m b

[squark]

enneagram is d u m b

Arguing over the enneagram might be dumb, yeah, but enneagram has been valuable to me. It won't have value for everyone and that's to be expected.

@malignantwench: You responded exactly as I said you would, with lots of anger and attempted insults. The problem is that I don't actually care what you think about me, nor what type you are. I gave you a possible suggestion to think about, and it very well might be completely wrong. But your behavior is predictable, so go ahead and work yourself into a frenzy over whatever it is you've imagined I've done to you, and maybe when you're not quite so rabid you'll give it a thought. Or not.

[malignantwench]

@malignantwench: I gave you a possible suggestion to think about, and it very well might be completely wrong.

I don't need a possible suggestion from a moron. Enneagram is about your basic fear, vice, fixation, harmonic group, defence mechanism, stress mode and holy idea not behaviour or traits. The 9 stereotypes are based on the so first 9w1s.