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  1. #1
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    So at this point I'm not sure what my type is, beyond it being one of the four Merry extrovert types, and no other type fitting at all.

    So, tell me what type I am. And why you're not retarded for thinking so.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    If it's between those, ENTp fo sho. You know my reasons.
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    lol@ sle your funny alek
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I'm not altogether opposed to ILE as a type, but hearing you two type me that only assures me I'm something else...

    What's so funny about SLE?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not altogether opposed to ILE as a type, but hearing you two type me that only assures me I'm something else...

    What's so funny about SLE?
    I've questioned if you were ENTp as well, elsewhere.

    I hope you're not just brushing people aside because they're Fi-Te though. I don't think anyone is against you finding out your type.

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    You do seem a lot like Gilly...

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    I've questioned if you were ENTp as well, elsewhere.

    I hope you're not just brushing people aside because they're Fi-Te though. I don't think anyone is against you finding out your type.
    Oh fuck no, I'm brushing aside Crispy and Ashton because they've earned it.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    He thinks I'm a serious type. How cute.
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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    IEI

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I am not Te-PoLR.

    btw, I asked for reasoning people
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    You despise Fi, you've said it before. I have questions...

    Do you deal with your feelings?

    Do you want to lock your feelings up?

    How do you deal with your feelings?

    T and F are opposites, if you despise one, then you're the other....you're typing through consciousness. You hate Fi, you said, that is conscious...now you must have T...I conclude Te, in your conscious block.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I'm actually quite emotionally charged and values-driven. However, in Socionics that does not fall within the purview of . Fi itself deals with interpersonal distance with others, and sensitivity to the emotional comfort of other people -- the latter especially being a concept that I dislike dealing with.

    I'm not sure how disliking Fi would put Te in my conscious block. It just means Fi is a devalued function, which makes Te devalued as well. As such it's only conscious if I'm some sort of Fe-ego...
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    When you dislike dealing with something that usually means you want your dual to deal with them or maybe not

    Fi deals with the sensitivity to the emotional comfort of other people..that's how you build relationships
    Te deals with relationship between objects and Fi deals with relationship between people.

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    ...actually, stuff your dual deals with is stuff you like handling, but lack the tools for.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    ...actually, stuff your dual deals with is stuff you like handling, but lack the tools for.
    We've come to an agreement...you're ESTj.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Fi is more than emotional distance. It's the ability to statically analyze and derive implications from some explicit occurrence.

    Two people kissing? They're comfortable with each other(not necessarily a couple).
    Guy running around? He wants to lose weight.
    Bird flying overhead? I'm about to be shat on(and I don't like it).

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    I have a hard time seeing LSE. I was almost ready to agree he might be SLE.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    I have a hard time seeing LSE.
    Me too, man...
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    So why did you change from ENFj?

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Slight change on my conception of my strength/valuation of Si. In short, I'm pretty sure I'm not Si-PoLR. However, I am not sure whether I'm Se-leading and Si-ignoring (ESTp), or Se-role and Si-suggestive (ENTp). Either is quite plausible -- and I actually relate to the Ne-role description.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    aleksei. you aren't estp
    entp IMO.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    aleksei. you aren't estp
    Why not?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Slight change on my conception of my strength/valuation of Si. In short, I'm pretty sure I'm not Si-PoLR. However, I am not sure whether I'm Se-leading and Si-ignoring (ESTp), or Se-role and Si-suggestive (ENTp). Either is quite plausible -- and I actually relate to the Ne-role description.
    Both are Fi PoLR, but I think you would see the SLE's Si ignoring in how it affects others more often. If they're on the move or something, it could be inconsiderate. There's kind of an "interpersonal" area with Si too, I think. Someone may want to chill and pace themselves towards a goal, while the SLE's speed or insistence might range from the impatient kid who's just pushing his dad to go to a store, even though his dad has hemmoroids.. or some jerk acting like R Lee Ermey about something. "Hurry up, pussies." It can come out in ESFP too, but they're more motivating. If they're trying to get someone to enjoy themselves or better themselves, and that person voices anxiety, tiredness, etc.., then the SEE is all "Dude, we'll just go there.. we'll check it out. I think you'll feel better then.." blah blah blah. And they're able to generate all kinds of Se possibilities to workaround some naysayer's excuses. They know locales well and people well, so you can't bullshit them easy if you give them Fi or Si concerns.

    I could be wrong, but I think it's partly tied to Si ignoring.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Fi is more than emotional distance. It's the ability to statically analyze and derive implications from some explicit occurrence.

    Two people kissing? They're comfortable with each other(not necessarily a couple).
    Guy running around? He wants to lose weight.
    Bird flying overhead? I'm about to be shat on(and I don't like it).
    Yea I relate that to introverted functions personally....

    as a geometric analogy, extroverted functions are concerned with the surface area of something, while introverted functions are concerned with the space bounded by that.

    Fe see too people kissing.... aw that's cute, or that's nice, or I bet they like each other... etc, hell they may even think its love, but it won't be the same functional view of love as Fi, its the surface area of love, how love works on the surface

    Fi sees too people kissing, aw they are in love, they are bonded, they are cementing that relationships.... etc they may even think its cute or nice... but thats because they think these sorts of relationships are cute, they get an impression of the surface by the space's boundary.

    Really Fe and Fi are one within the same, except for cognitive differences in the same way....



    That works.....

    One see the surface, the immediate manifestation of the ethics, feeling, and emotion

    One see the deeper, relationship oriented view of the ethics, feeling, and emotion

    And no I don't mean deeper as in more profound, but deeper in the the sense its not as immediate....

    Fe can be amazingly deep since its always working in tandem with introverted functions, say a NiFe IEI doesn't just see the surface impression of ethics or emotion, but how that this works on a deeper intuitive level with introverted intuition.

    Since functions always work together and there will always be two functions paired together with one introverted and the other extroverted in the ego block. No extroverted first function type is shallow it always works with a deeper introverted function assisting it creatively.

    One can view an extrovert FeNi for example as viewing an Fe surface with a Ni space core from outside....

    While an NiFe views the space object, but from within that space looking out

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    EIE rings true for me - not in a significant way, but in a "I can't really see anything else kind of a way".

    I think perhaps I see the Fe Ego with the Se HA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    We've come to an agreement...you're ESTj.
    I'm going to shut you up for good some day.

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    now that responses like IEI and LSE are being thrown in the mix i'm going to jump in and say i agree w/ merry extrovert even though idk any further than that. i'm partial to the ILE suggestion due to a general alpha impression along w/ my impression of weak ethics and high confidence in Ti. but i wouldn't put money on it, just a suggestion i'm partial to.

  28. #28
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    How the hell is he even Alpha? What the dicks, people?

    EDIT

    Okay, proper post now that I've finished eating... watch this space.

    ILE makes no sense. Seriously. How does he even remotely look like any of the ILEs on the forums? Jx, Mountain Dew, Timeless (esp. Timeless, since he's one of the goofball ILEs but is still completely not at all anything like Aleksei). Is this one of those shitty "Oh he's a goofball therefore he must be Alpha and therefore must be ILE" arguments? Because that was BS when the forum tried to use it on me, and it's no less BS now. It's a universal constant that that is a crock of the proverbial substance, utter intellectual dross.

    Strong Ti makes no sense. He does that whole Ti posturing thing. You know, like EVERY OTHER Fe TYPE ON THE FORUM. Use your eyes people. It can't be that hard, can it? If I need to summon examples: strrrng, crazedrat, thePirate, myself,

    Oh, and guess who else? Gilly. This man is a Gilly clone, through and through. He even does that BS "EVERYTHING MUST BE Ti'd" thing. You know, that thing that ILEs NEVER DO.

    He's a textbook case of weak/valued Ti.

    My current theory is Aleksei here is some sort of poorly socialised genius. Hence the clumsy Fe usage. Elements do not make you naturally good at their field when they're strong; the strength leads to skill because they expose you to more information than do your weak elements.

    I'm still open to other suggestions, provided they're not retarded.

    None of this post was directed at you, lagh, or anyone in particular, so please don't take it as a personal attack or anything
    Last edited by male; 01-03-2011 at 02:00 PM.

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    SLE is a step forward from EIE, at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    My current theory is Aleksei here is some sort of poorly socialised genius. Hence the clumsy Fe usage. Elements do not make you naturally good at their field when they're strong; the strength leads to skill because they expose you to more information than do your weak elements.
    (Very) far from being genius, Aleksei's clumsy Fe would be better explained with Fe super-id rather than a "poorly socialised" Fe ego. I do agree his Ti is really bad, but since Fe seems that way as well I'd have to give a serious type a shot (ENFp?). But he seems to think this can't be so, so the best guess I can give is an unhealthy ENTp (which he already types as in Big 5, but that's a different, yet arguably related matter).
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    @arthur: ya, i guess i could see a case for posturing Ti as easily as i could see a case for posturing Fe. which is why i wouldnt put money on anything past merry extrovert. my vague alpha impression is more like a vague "not beta" impression...i feel like i can follow where aleksei is coming from and where he's going more than i typically do w/ betas. again, just an impression.

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    I don't really know you that well. I feel like sometimes you're hiding who you are, that you're more interested in figuring others out then you are figuring yourself out. Your posts don't really 'cut through anything' the way some people's do.

    People whose posts cut through:

    Vero. Gilly. Dolphin. Ashton. Nick. Maritsa. Myself. And recently, polik has been able to cut through it all and show people who he is.

    But a lot of people on here (not that this is a bad thing mind you, I'm not really criticizing it) posts are just unremarkable to me in all ways, and then they ask me to type them or ask me to have insight about how they are. But they're not really showing anything, or being honest. I guess it's very embarrassing to be really honest? But I have a gut instinct that you're just not being truthful. 'Lying by omission', I mean.

    I can't really sense your personal quirks and idiosyncrasies like I can the others. My friendly advice would be to 'stop searching' and to simply meet others wherever you're at, naturally and concretely. And then, we can get a better knack of who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Oh, and guess who else? Gilly. This man is a Gilly clone, through and through. He even does that BS "EVERYTHING MUST BE Ti'd" thing. You know, that thing that ILEs NEVER DO.
    I have noticed some similarities between him and Gilly too. And yeah, a lot of the probable Fe-Ej's here seem to categorize everything very boldly, I think it's Te-role+Ti+Se seeking (absolutist type thoughts?) but I could be wrong

    I sort of think EIE is most likely, but I don't have an argument for Aleksei's type either way, except that he seems Ti/Fe valuing and most likely Se as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    Lol, poor Beta. Always getting turds punted back over their side of the fence.
    Can you stop the insults now?

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    If I compare you with self-typed ILEs on here, I have to admit that you don't seem to be one, imho. I actually thought your initial type, EIE, was quite accurate, but I guess you're the only one who can actually judge that.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  36. #36
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    Can you stop the insults now?
    Where's the insult?

  37. #37
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I have noticed some similarities between him and Gilly too. And yeah, a lot of the probable Fe-Ej's here seem to categorize everything very boldly, I think it's Te-role+Ti+Se seeking (absolutist type thoughts?) but I could be wrong
    It's actually even simpler. Within each quadra, the valued elements between each dyad have differing preferences. So for ILE-SEI, Ti/Fe are valued, but Producing, so they're more flexible and less absolute/all-encompassing like Ne/Si.

    Your dual-seeking function is the thing you can never get enough of and are constantly lacking in, and your base function is your entire operating program for dealing with the world.
    Last edited by male; 01-03-2011 at 06:05 PM.

  38. #38
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Where's the insult?
    I suppose you don't see aleksei being called a turd an insult?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not altogether opposed to ILE as a type, but hearing you two type me that only assures me I'm something else...
    Hahaha!! Yeah...
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Oh, and guess who else? Gilly. This man is a Gilly clone, through and through. He even does that BS "EVERYTHING MUST BE Ti'd" thing. You know, that thing that ILEs NEVER DO.

    He's a textbook case of weak/valued Ti.
    Man, chill out and listen a bit. What if you mix in ILE stuff with Ti stuff & stuff? I mean, Aleksei's reasoning IMO is Ti-Creative, I also identified with him numerous times, he is foccused and precise on an argument at a time, without concern about the "big shit", like how his opinions match consensus, academy, etc.

    Gilly is some sort of a "public person", you see him but his reasoning is somehow distant and global, you can never get too close to something palpable in what he says, he's like a manager who learns a bit from everyone, and takes action in a "middle-way" manner, so that everything fits-in. He's much more general, global than Aleksei, he "prepares the terrain", if you know what I mean, while Aleksei is always getting straightly to the point. Gilly is also detached from the facts and always sees the parts in a big picture, in some sort of epic, social manner. For example, Gilly never got down from his crystal castle to dirty his hands with concrete criteria for differentiating Socionics from MBTI and Jung, it was like he is waiting for something, often mixing in the renown or popularity of different ideas, talking to him made me feel, to a large extent, that he was not fully understanding each piece, that the particular facts are not actually what he wants to listen, on the other hand he was attracted by passion, fascination & things like this. Aleksei instead, he snaps on the arguments, on consistency, without overlooking things just because "they look right" or because people agree.

    On a related note, I witnessed SLEs in a professional collective who brought up dilemmas exactly when it was supposed that things are settled and people get to work, everyone getting unreasonably outraged; you notice that I said "unreasonably", because even if these SLEs chose that moment for controversy - which I'm not even sure it's true, annoy or animate their colleagues, they are right and nothing else matters. You see, as a Ti-Creative you can't get over the truth, the way you see it, neither you accept that someone steps on it. Maybe I am wrong, but Aleksei seems to me such person, I doesn't see him fearful to call things on their name, to call people stupid - when objectively they are stupid - even if he keeps an eye for the social aspect, asking for opinions (eg his polls that I call useless), taking care of not coming across as a crackpot or hilarious, etc.
    IMO here EIEs are totally different, their prestance and image is paramount (because Ni/Se is Producing, Ni is Creative, btw), the ability to deal with anyone, anywhere at anytime, distancing themselves almost completely from polemics.

    EIEs simply don't think like that, ThanksArthur, the descriptions are pretty clear about the tactical and concrete nature of SLEs on one hand, and the intellectually detached, "choreograpic" and socially-dependent nature of the EIE (NF, btw). Obviously, this is not a full analysis, I don't say that he's an ILE - I disagree with that typing as well, but he is clearly a Ti-Creative, IMO.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

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  40. #40
    Imagine Timeless's Avatar
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    I type you as Puerto Rican.


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