woof, did you pull up the original Marilyn Manson thread? I tried to pull up an old thread on him 5 or 6 times, but it never came up whenever I tried to search his name.
woof, did you pull up the original Marilyn Manson thread? I tried to pull up an old thread on him 5 or 6 times, but it never came up whenever I tried to search his name.
What would Manson have said to the kids at Columbine or the people of that community? His response was: "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did." - start watching the video at 3:42
"INFjs can be very touchy and this may strain the easy atmosphere of a conversation. Sometimes they adopt a monotone speech pattern that can snuff out all playfulness in others. INFjs have a special ability to listen to people and as a result they are often asked for advice or sympathy. They never push people away and are always prepared to listen for as long as it takes to make others feel better, even if they theoretically have better things to do. INFjs are always ready to help friends in difficult life situations. They care not with words but with real actions." - http://www.socionics.com/prof/infj.htm
It was initially tempting for me to type Manson as EIE, but after watching a shit ton of interviews and other videos about him I definitely think he is Fi valuing for sure. More than likely Fi ego though I could see Fi HA. Definitely intuitive also.
he seems self preservation last
Yeah, i guess EIE, sure. Similar to Father John Misty who i also think is EIE.
Beta NF, perhaps EIE-Ni.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
Most definitely Beta NF. I'm leaning towards EIE, but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm curious, how can an SLI like him? He has too much Fe.Originally Posted by jessica129
But what I noticed about his Fe in his songs is that he sounds a little restrained, while EIEs typically go "all the way" in their Fe. He sounds more like Cobain.
But still he is probably EIE.
Last edited by Singu; 02-10-2017 at 02:43 PM.
IEI
Last edited by Jake; 02-12-2017 at 06:02 PM.
I don't type myself as SLI anymore. I am much more likely to be ESI.
I think we can safely say... that no ILE (or any Alpha) is ever going to come across as that "scary"/bizarre/dark/emo/gothic/dramatic etc.
No actually, I think an Alpha can be a 4... Hmm that's interesting... scratch that, SEIs can be emo/goth etc, but probably not as dramatic as Marilyn Manson.
I think pretty much only an EIE can ever be someone like Marilyn Manson. The most dramatic IEI that you'll ever see is... Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga is more an expression of her many sides of her - she does not really "change" herself. Marilyn Manson is more of a complete creation of Brian Hugh Warner's imagination - and then he is actually acting on his creation and living through it.
I think this is the difference between IXFx "sincere" and EXFx "passionate".
One step closer to being my dual.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Kind of an interesting difference between Ni-lead and Ni-creative, via Reinin, which seems relevant:
Ni-leading:
Ni-creative:
Also Fe-leading:
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Grigory_Reinin
I have never come across an Alpha Type 4 before. The two aspects don't mix.
The merry lightness of Alpha doesn't mix well with the Type 4 aspects, for exactly the reasons you've mentioned before.
Apparently everyone has a different view on the matter, but based on my observations I believe only IEIs, ESIs, and Delta NFs can be Type 4.
So basically, Type 4 is all about that stronger. Fe leads are out because of Fi Ignoring – they won't tune into their emotional inner world to the extent 4s do. SEIs are out because they lack the Ni valuing and/or strength, and that does characterize Type 4 to an extent. (Which leads to many people mistyping all 4s almost by default as IEI, unfortunately. But I get it.)
It goes like Fi > Ni for Type 4s. They are stereotypically "emotional" in certain ways, but not really in ankind of way, it is more internal, like
If you haven't noticed yet: First I go by observations – people I have come across etc., followed by some kind of system in terms of what makes logical sense. Or in other words, I see things and then try to make sense of them.
I understand when people don't "jive" with my "black and white" thinking there. So far, it has worked for me though.
To bring it all together, Marilyn Manson is obviously Type 4 Sx/So (to me). Contraflow, rebellious, socially aware and interested in social dynamics, SX first. (All those traits are often equated with "Beta behaviour" by default, another common typing mistake imo.) And ... Type 4. No debate there. Obviously concerned with being and looking unique, dramatic, scary, what have you.
So, the only probable types would be IEI, ESI, Delta NF.
We can rule out Delta NF, for he does value Se, and it shows. He's quite aggressive and provocative in certain ways.
And that leads us to IEI vs ESI. I find ESI more probable in that sense. I used to wonder whether he was IEI, it was tricky to figure out in the beginning.
After a while, I did arrive at ESI for him, maybe Fi subtype. I know how many will be like "Ha, it's ESI again!"
Well, it simply doesn't look like his Se is that weak to be IEI, nor does he show any signs of Ti HA. I get the impression he is Ni HA > Ti HA. I don't see enough Ni from him to type him as Ni Ego, and especially 4D Ni at that.
So yeah, that's my thoughts on the issue.
And I know most people don't really like them, haha.
Take it or leave it, really. If you don't like it or find it silly, fine. I'm not trying to upset anybody here, just sharing my thoughts.
I think there's alpha sf type 4 too...though it's not that apparent in their demeanor (powerful si+fe) and not as common as 4s in iei, esi and delta nf?
I love to meditate
Hmmmmm... I guess it's easier to type if they have an antic like Manson. I think EIEs and ILEs are pretty different, but I get what you mean. At first, I thought that Anthony Padilla from Smosh was ILE, but I'm pretty sure that he's EIE.
I guess the differences are the usual differences between the J types and P types... ILEs are just all over the place, they're more spontaneous, more dispersed, changes mind a lot, reacts easily. EIEs are usually just kind of more stubborn... they seem more like a giant, stable piece of rock... They don't react too easily. EIEs, usually the males seem to have some kind of an imposing presence, like they're "hovering" over everyone and they're more eager to take favors from people or individuals and do what needs to be done (EJ temperament). ILEs are more interested in themselves only. They mostly only do things if they get praised. EIEs don't care much for praise, I don't think. They just want people to react to them, good or bad. If people don't either love or hate the EIEs, then they don't exist.
Even if they're unhealthy or whatever, I find that EIEs are not usually quick to take offense as ILEs, who can get hurt pretty easily. It's like when EIEs take offense, they usually just "stay back" and kind of see how they can "one up" the person (the oneupmanship seems like Beta's Quadra Complex). They rarely show their own hurt or offense because they don't really care about their own attitudes toward others (Fe-leading). I find that ILEs are very reactive, and just say things without thinking much about the consequences.
A sure way to piss off an ILE is to tell him to shut up... I once told an ILE to shut up when he was getting angry over something, and he threw into a fit of rage... It kind of puzzled me at that moment, because it seemed like such an overreaction. But I read about this in Alpha's Quadra Complex ("Closed Mouth"), and it fits perfectly and it makes sense now:
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya
betas are more subtly dramatic. manson is just flailing about.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Another EIE with kind of a gimmick/antic like Manson (Jaz Coleman):
There are dramatic expressions everywhere. It's like he's putting on a mask every time. Maybe their face painting is to hide their Si PoLR.
Haha how timely, they just released "Teens React to Marilyn Manson"
He's IEI, but here's something:
I'd type Marilyn Manson as:
ESI-Fi, Sx/So 4w5 (486 - The Truth Teller)
P.S: Sx/So individuals almost always seem to be extroverted, even when they aren't.
You could argue they have the most "intense" instinctual energy compared to all the other stackings, being both SX first and stronger in SO, people-focused etc.
Um am I the only one who thinks he's clearly introverted? He's quiet and low energy (also probably low-temp). He's loud when performing, but its PERFORMING. Look at his interviews.
I type him the same as Cassandra, except the instincts: so/sp 4w5 468
I think he's quiet, but not necessarily introverted. He's pretty reactive and say things without thinking about it much first (the "talk to think" quality of extroverts). His body movement is quite solid and strong.
@Cassandra I don't know why you keep thinking that these weirdos are ESIs... I mean the SFs are defined by the fact that they're not weird. They're sensors so they base everything on something that already exist in this world. ESIs would have a very hard time imagining something not of this world.
@phantombride Why did you post a video of Conan?
Who says he is really imagining something entirely "not from this world"?
He takes things he's seen or are familiar and makes them look "weird" or "grotesque". That doesn't require any Ne specifically.
There is quite a bias in Socionics regarding ESIs being 6s. Ofc the Type 4s couldn't relate to those 6-influenced descriptions.
Just like the SLEs are all 8s in the descriptions. An SLE who is 7 wouldn't relate to that, and probably mistype as ILE. Etc.
I've explained before how ESIs can be Type 4, and just now how the ESI 4s wouldn't be able to relate (and be often mistyped) as Intuitive.
Se Creative.His body movement is quite solid and strong.
Truth Teller tritype.He's pretty reactive and say things without thinking about it much first
"talking without having to think first" is related to confidence
Does this sound like Manson?
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya
Basically, Fi-lead is concerned with "proper" behavior. "Don't do this, don't do that" "don't steal" etc.
Obviously, Manson doesn't give a shit about any of the Fi stuff. Why would an ILE have any trouble with someone like Manson? They don't, maybe they'll just think that Manson is a bizarre weirdo who is spoiling the harmony needed for Ne.
An SF wouldn't be caught dead acting like Manson. Except for maybe SEIs.
This is why I'm not Fi dom either, which some people think (idk why because they never give any reason and then just run away when I give this argument)
Not all Fi leads are "proper"...
Every Fi lead person has their own personal values.
It could be anything. It could even be something entirely harmful, negative, and destructive.
I'm pretty sure Elliot Rodger was an ESI 4w3.
He wasn't "proper" – he was spiteful, envious, mad, and twisted.
Conan is an ILE and Charlie is an EIE. I though it would help show @Starfall an example of each
Then you're typing backwards. You can't say that "I type Elliot Rodger as ESI, therefore ESIs are not concerned with proper behavior" (I have no opinion on his type). We'd have to have a certain agreement on what Fi is in the first place.
Anyway, you'd have to somehow prove that Manson is engaging in this "proper" Fi behavior, even if they're unconventional. Manson is not the kind of person telling other people how to behave.
Michelle Obama is a good example of ESI, and she's often telling Ellen how to behave:
This is kind of an interesting thing that I see in some EIEs, where they can incite hatred and even violence in people, even if they're kind of doing it in an ironic or joking way, to make them rebel against some system. This seems to be consistent with the EIE's behavior that they're usually evangelizing, proselytizing and rallying people up and mobilizing them in some ways to "get them ready for action", which gets passed on to SLEs, like Trump.
EIEs typically have too much internal aggression and they need to release it somehow. Not that all EIEs do this kind of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17hN1yJ9vY0
I don't think MM is an extrovert. He's definitely an e type 4 and I could see him as IEI>EIE but I am not totally sure about his socionics. EIEs are usually intense but most of them are quite light and bubbly when they talk and interact with others, MM is deadly serious most of the time and I haven't seen this in many Fe leads.
He fits in Gamma quadra but not as ESI. A type 4, ILI-Ni, I cannot see Fe creative over Fe PoLR. He also seems to attract SEE's more than SLE's within my limited sample population, which is also why i think he is Gamma.
I also think he's ILI.
this is not accurate in my experience. i've met enough e4 (both wings) SEIs and EIEs to know that these combinations exist. i know a few ESEs with a very strong e4 influence in their tritype. one or two of them i strongly suspect to have e4 as their core type (like my former literature teacher in high school). i personally do think that e4 SEEs could exist too, even though that would be a very rare (but not impossible, imo) combination.
ILI has got to be one of the worst typings... maybe if you saw him only in some interviews.
I still think he’s EIE.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/f...sident-w440962
September 20, 2016
Marilyn Manson voted for Barack Obama in 2012, but he has no intention of visiting a polling station this November. "I don't find either candidate to my liking, so I choose to stand out of this one," he tells Rolling Stone. "And I don't think that's a coward's stance. A lot of people might say that. I just don't really want to be a part of this piece of history. Last time, I did want to be involved in some piece of history as a voter."
When asked about the candidates – or more specifically, one of the candidates – he says it's the context that matters. "You're asking what I think about Trump, and it's a tough call because if you look back at old presidents that have been in the past, and you weren't old enough to know how they lived their lives, and you didn't live in the era that was so media-saturated and internet and just so many opinions swirling around, the world seems a bit chaotic more than it should be," he says. "But then when you simplify it, it isn't more chaotic. It just comes down to two things: Who has more charisma, and who are they appealing to. And neither one of them appeal to me."
Manson, who will be making an appearance on the upcoming season of Salem and who has been teasing a "pretty violent" new album (SAY10) due in February, has long expressed disillusionment with the American electoral process. In 2000, when George W. Bush was elected, he told an interviewer, "I don't vote because I don't believe that it's a legitimate system anymore or of it ever was, so I just try and insert my beliefs on politics in music because I think that speaks to the youth which will be the future."
In 2004, when Bush was running against then-Senator John Kerry, he offered a similar opinion: "It's not a matter of me thinking my vote is going to make a difference or not; it's a matter of I don't have an interest in either person."
But his tone shifted when then-Senator Barack Obama became a candidate, telling Time in 2009 that he voted for "the president, of course." It was the first time he'd ever voted for president, he said. In 2012, Manson told Time Out Chicago that while he did vote for Obama, he "never believed in the authenticity of the two-party system," adding, "Politics in this country is all what happens behind Oz's curtain."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.daa3df82bc0b
“The strange reason Marilyn Manson admires Trump” (By Sarah Polus October 5, 2017 )
Marilyn Manson likes to make his political opinions known — sometimes.
The goth rocker, who voted for then-President Barack Obama in 2012, opted out of participating in this year’s election cycle. “I don’t find either candidate to my liking, so I choose to stand out of this one,” he told Rolling Stone last September.
Some speculated, though, that the shock rocker’s “Say10″ music video was a comment on last year’s election. (There’s a beheaded figure donning a power suit who could be a stand-in from Donald Trump). Manson, who released the clip on the eve of the 2016 presidential election, never publicly admitted that Trump was his muse — or target.
But despite not voting for Trump, there’s one thing Manson does like about POTUS. And that’s Trump Tower. And no, it’s not because he went there to hobnob with Manhattan’s elite. The reason is a bit more . . . well, Marilyn Manson-esque.
In a recent Rolling Stone interview, Manson described how Trump Tower once helped him hide from the police when there was a warrant out for his arrest.
“I do admire the fact that he created Trump Tower,” Manson said. “Because when I did an interview and it went wrong and I got arrested for putting a gun in the mouth of an editor of Spin, I hid from the law there.”
Hold on . . . what?
In 1998, Manson and his body guards allegedly assaulted Spin Magazine editor Craig Marks, who then filed a lawsuit, according to an article by MTV News. At the time, Manson reportedly threatened Marks because of a magazine cover dispute, saying: ‘I can kill you! I can kill your family! I can kill everyone you know.’ ”
According to Rolling Stone, the case was eventually settled out of court, and Manson was never arrested.
https://www.independent.ie/style/cel...-36153944.html
Marilyn Manson insists no political message in ‘decapitated Trump’ music video
The singer said any political elements depended on the listener, even though the timing makes a “statement”. (By Francesca Gosling, September 20 2017)
Metal rock singer Marilyn Manson has insisted that his grizzly music video to SAY10, released during last year’s US election and featuring a decapitated suited man, was not intended to depict Donald Trump.
While he admitted that the timing of the song’s release made a statement, he said that there was no fixed political message behind it and that Trump’s presidency is no more concerning than any other.
The video was widely interpreted as a swipe at the then presidential candidate, as the bloodied corpse appeared to be wearing Trump’s signature blue suit and red tie.
Speaking of the track – a first taster from his upcoming album Heaven Upside Down – Manson told music magazine NME: “The only thing it had to do with politics was what people wanted to make it.
“It could be a preacher, it could just be a businessman. It (the body in the video) could be anything, but in no way does it say it is Trump.
“But of course when you release it on election day, it makes a statement.”
He added: “[Trump] doesn’t worry me any more than any of the other presidents.”
The 48-year-old US musician has openly spoken about his conscious decision not to vote in the landmark election last November, but while he has previously told interviewers that it was because neither candidate appealed to him, he admitted that it was “because I’d have had to get up early”.
The only president he has voted for was Barack Obama, because, he said: “I thought it was such a unique period in history that I wanted to do it just so that I could say I’d done it.”
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/maril...courtney-love/
MARILYN MANSON SAYS HIS FRIENDSHIP WITH COURTNEY LOVE ENDED BECAUSE OF SEX (January 22, 2015)
Men and women, women and men -- if you've seen 'When Harry Met Sally,' you know we have a hard time maintaining friendships without sexual tension getting in the way. Heck, just ask Marilyn Manson.
The eyeliner enthusiast reflected on his former friendship with Hole mastermind Courtney Love during a recent interview with Esquire, suggesting that their years of much-publicized insult-slinging may have started because of an unrequited attraction.
Insisting that they "never really had a falling out" with each other, Manson also argued that, contrary to most male-female friendships that disintegrate over matters of the heart, the guy in this relationship wasn't the one who wanted more.
"We've always been weird with each other, because she's slept with pretty much every one of my friends, supposedly. Not me, though," he claimed. "She told me she was mad at me because I didn't want to f--- her and I was smarter than her. I said, 'Well, you kind of proved your own point right there on that one.'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...cuous-dim.html
'I thought you were gay!' Courtney Love hits back at Marilyn Manson after he accuses her of being promiscuous and dim (By Cassie Carpenter for MailOnline) [PUBLISHED: 21 January 2015]
While promoting his new album, Marilyn Manson managed to reignite a long-dormant feud with Courtney Love.
'We never really had a falling out,' the 46-year-old shock rocker told Esquire.
'We've always been weird with each other, because she's slept with pretty much every one of my friends, supposedly. Not me, though.
'She, one time, told me she was mad at me because I didn't want to f*** her and I was smarter than her. I said, "Well, you kind of proved your own point right there on that one."'
The 50-year-old grunge queen took to her Twitter on Tuesday to respond: 'Omg @marilynmanson all this time thought u're gay. Of course I'll f*** u. Im free Fri from 1:15 to 1:18 gives us plenty time 4 a smoke too x.'
The outrageous nineties icons both acted (never together) in the seventh and final season of Sons of Anarchy.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/m...bieber-199282/
“Marilyn Manson News: On His Friendship with Johnny Depp and His Hatred for Justin Bieber” (By Shannon Azares , Sep 15, 2017)
The combo of Marilyn Manson and Johnny Depp in the same place is something that some fans only ever dreamed of. In a recent interview, the "Heaven Upside Down" singer shared something about his past that has to do with how he bonds with Depp, his hatred for Canadian pop singer Justin Bieber, and what it is like to go through a hard life.
AV Club reports that Manson's hatred for Bieber came from that the "Love Yourself" singer was wearing a shirt with the face of the former. Although his designer insisted that Manson gave his permission for the usage, Depp's close friend was quick to deny. Put in kinder words, Bieber told him that he made Manson relevant again and before he could sue his camp for the violation, they told him to just take the money and move on. Understandably, Manson was appalled and his hatred for Bieber continues to this day.
Meanwhile, Billboard conducted an interview with Manson, who revealed he and Depp recently got matching back tattoos. Amusingly, he recalled that he was in real physical pain, which caught the attention of his fans who took the liberty to remind him that he was the same guy who put needles under his fingernails. Other than that, it seems that Manson has been through a lot as he recalled what he has experienced thus far in the interview.
"All the scars — musical, physical, mental, emotional — they're what define you," said Manson. "If you're going to take on the world, which I've done, it takes a lot of backbone — more than people think. I'm not bragging about it, but it does weigh on you."
Last edited by HERO; 01-05-2018 at 01:40 PM.
He looks a lot like what people would expect from the most stereotypical EIE, but when you actually listen to him you see he has 0 Fe. That, + IJ temperament, + merriness, + intuituion = LII. Flamboyant because he's 4w5, intense because he's SxSp.
Reply With Quote
