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Thread: Unrealistic expectations and disappointments for INFjs/ENFps

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    Default Unrealistic expectations and disappointments for INFjs/ENFps

    Lately I've been working on removing my expectations of people/situations, which is something that until now I hadn't seriously considered doing. I've noticed how being disappointed and upset at things is a sign of me expecting things that weren't realistic and that I really didn't have control over... All this is actually quite enlightening and liberating for me, because I've always expected things that I thought were for the "better" of someone or myself, when it might have just been done out of wanting to have control. Accepting that I really don't have control over the outcome of any situation now or in the future is almost against my nature, yet like I said, it's actually liberating now that I've been gradually letting the expectations go. I wonder if this is something that other Delta NFs or just plain anybody has problems with. I think my issue with this type of life philosophy is that I thought that it automatically means that I expect less from someone/something, when the latter really isn't removing an expectation, but replacing it with a negative one. Expecting nothing from somebody might be one of the most productive things you can do to have a healthy relationship.

    My intention of posting it here is that NFs in Delta quadra might be more focused to determine all of the possibilities of why something isn't going their way, for example, without really considering if it actually MATTERS for whatever reason something happened or didn't happen. Also, disregarding an emotional bond with anybody in order to consider other perceptions of a situation almost seems like a taboo thing for me to be doing... All of this is almost foreign to me and "scary," like I'm somehow truly understanding a concept that until now I didn't realize existed... Something not changing to the way I wanted and it being OK. Also being OK with things not developing the way I had envisioned/wanted them and not getting disappointed, because I didn't EXPECT anything and yet I can still have goals that will or will not happen due to reasons out of my control... Good stuff.

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    I think this might be more of an EII than IEE thing. It sound rational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I think this might be more of an EII than IEE thing. It sound rational.
    I see. What parts strike you as rational?

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    Having expectations of how things should go. See how what you said compares to the first part of this: http://socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml Maybe I'm not reading it right, it could be you're saying you aren't as rational as you felt you were earlier, or it isn't as important to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Having expectations of how things should go. See how what you said compares to the first part of this: http://socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml Maybe I'm not reading it right, it could be you're saying you aren't as rational as you felt you were earlier, or it isn't as important to you.
    Yes, I do expect things to turn out a certain way before they start and when something does start I can picture the end; when the end, which might actually be a plan, doesn't go my way, I get disappointed. I have seen the same reaction from my LSE cousin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Having expectations of how things should go. See how what you said compares to the first part of this: http://socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml Maybe I'm not reading it right, it could be you're saying you aren't as rational as you felt you were earlier, or it isn't as important to you.
    I can see how the rational column applies more to me. However, what I'm saying is not really that I'm becoming less rational, but that I've realized that unrealistic expectations are just not good for sustaining a happy lifestyle. Now I've been seeing how everyone does it in his/her own way, be it that they expect to be married at some point or maybe that they need a better job to be happy, etc, when these types of expectations aren't necessarily going to make you "happier." It doesn't seem to open yourself to other ways of being happy that are beyond what you know at that particular time. Maybe changing your attitude towards your current situation is the key to being happy with your life, and pursuing goals without really expecting that they will or will not happen because that's ultimately out of your control. That's more or less what I'm getting at.

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    Years ago I was presented with the concept of a sideways V. Or, perhaps, a <. Anyway, it was a graphic that I feel too lazy to replicate in PS so you'll have to imagine it from my description.

    The bottom line is labeled "reality"; the top line is labeled "expectations"; and the area between the two is called "pain" (or something similarly uncomfortable, maybe "discomfort").

    Basically, the idea is that the further your expectations differ from reality the more pain you'll feel. So the idea is that you need to not build up lots of expectations and if you're feeling conflict or discomfort with a situation that you should check to see if it's because your expectations need adjustment.


    I personally find what you're describing, Lobo, to be applicable to me. At least in terms of expecting certain things and then feeling great disappointment when it doesn't happen. And it is something I have consciously tried to look at and deal with at times. Part of my problem is it's so easy to imagine everything. And it's especially easy to build up and bask in the attractive portions of imagination, so much so that it becomes an (almost unconscious) expectation.
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    That's similar to a Buddhist idea that desire is the root of suffering. It isn't about sexual desire, just the idea of desiring for things to be different than they are.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    ...
    This kind of thinking often seems cynical to people, but in my opinion that's neither an accurate nor productive reaction.

    The fact is, when you lower your expectations, you tend to become more independent and responsible as a result. You are less of a victim because now you're not at the whims of the world, and for that reason, your increased resiliance makes you seem that much more capable. People will afford you more respect, and they will appreciate how low maintainance you are.

    Additionally, you come to the realization that lowering your expectations of someone (or something) doesn't require that you lower your opinion or respect of them. In fact, by your opinion can increase because your perception of them is not tainted by your own emotional baggage.

    ...At least, these have been my discoveries in my personal evolution.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Years ago I was presented with the concept of a sideways V. Or, perhaps, a <. Anyway, it was a graphic that I feel too lazy to replicate in PS so you'll have to imagine it from my description.

    The bottom line is labeled "reality"; the top line is labeled "expectations"; and the area between the two is called "pain" (or something similarly uncomfortable, maybe "discomfort").

    Basically, the idea is that the further your expectations differ from reality the more pain you'll feel. So the idea is that you need to not build up lots of expectations and if you're feeling conflict or discomfort with a situation that you should check to see if it's because your expectations need adjustment.

    I personally find what you're describing, Lobo, to be applicable to me. At least in terms of expecting certain things and then feeling great disappointment when it doesn't happen. And it is something I have consciously tried to look at and deal with at times. Part of my problem is it's so easy to imagine everything. And it's especially easy to build up and bask in the attractive portions of imagination, so much so that it becomes an (almost unconscious) expectation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    That's similar to a Buddhist idea that desire is the root of suffering. It isn't about sexual desire, just the idea of desiring for things to be different than they are.
    Yup, I was thinking about this today actually. The more expectations, the more potential pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    This kind of thinking often seems cynical to people, but in my opinion that's neither an accurate nor productive reaction.

    The fact is, when you lower your expectations, you tend to become more independent and responsible as a result. You are less of a victim because now you're not at the whims of the world, and for that reason, your increased resiliance makes you seem that much more capable. People will afford you more respect, and they will appreciate how low maintainance you are.

    Additionally, you come to the realization that lowering your expectations of someone (or something) doesn't require that you lower your opinion or respect of them. In fact, by your opinion can increase because your perception of them is not tainted by your own emotional baggage.

    ...At least, these have been my discoveries in my personal evolution.
    Exactly. I'm becoming very low maintenance and being open to understanding other people, without assuming that they can't surprise me in a positive way. It's a "peaceful place" to be.

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    HABIT 1

    BE PROACTIVE
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Ah, thank you, Parkster, that's pretty. The only change I'd make is to rotate the V slightly counter-clockwise so that "Reality" is parallel to the "low - high" legend.


    To add a little more of my thoughts, I don't think it's so much lowering expectations as it is... lessening them, I guess. "Low expectations" makes me think of "oh, no, it's going to be horrible" negativity. Whereas simply removing expectations is more about just letting things happen as they will. Which is also different from planning, or preparing for contingencies.

    An example might be if I'm going someplace I've never been before. An ideal approach for me might be to learn what I can about the place and do some envisioning, not to build up expectations about the experience (emotional attachments) but so as to think ahead about what I might need to prepare for. So that whatever does come I'll be relatively prepared for, both practically and emotionally.


    I like the idea of being able to remain internally steady despite external circumstances. Not passionless, but grounded and content.
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    Lately I've been working on removing my expectations of people/situations, which is something that until now I hadn't seriously considered doing. I've noticed how being disappointed and upset at things is a sign of me expecting things that weren't realistic and that I really didn't have control over... All this is actually quite enlightening and liberating for me, because I've always expected things that I thought were for the "better" of someone or myself, when it might have just been done out of wanting to have control. Accepting that I really don't have control over the outcome of any situation now or in the future is almost against my nature, yet like I said, it's actually liberating now that I've been gradually letting the expectations go. I wonder if this is something that other Delta NFs or just plain anybody has problems with. I think my issue with this type of life philosophy is that I thought that it automatically means that I expect less from someone/something, when the latter really isn't removing an expectation, but replacing it with a negative one. Expecting nothing from somebody might be one of the most productive things you can do to have a healthy relationship.
    It is good to love people unconditionally, but you have to let go of your socionics first. It seems hard at first, but I am realizing that letting go of expectations does leave me with a sense of peace. Anybody can do this, as long as they stop using socionics.
    Last edited by Pulsar41; 01-25-2011 at 04:18 AM. Reason: wording

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Years ago I was presented with the concept of a sideways V. Or, perhaps, a <. Anyway, it was a graphic that I feel too lazy to replicate in PS so you'll have to imagine it from my description.

    The bottom line is labeled "reality"; the top line is labeled "expectations"; and the area between the two is called "pain" (or something similarly uncomfortable, maybe "discomfort").

    Basically, the idea is that the further your expectations differ from reality the more pain you'll feel. So the idea is that you need to not build up lots of expectations and if you're feeling conflict or discomfort with a situation that you should check to see if it's because your expectations need adjustment.


    I personally find what you're describing, Lobo, to be applicable to me. At least in terms of expecting certain things and then feeling great disappointment when it doesn't happen. And it is something I have consciously tried to look at and deal with at times. Part of my problem is it's so easy to imagine everything. And it's especially easy to build up and bask in the attractive portions of imagination, so much so that it becomes an (almost unconscious) expectation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_principle

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Oh ok... Now I get what you were saying Minde better with the graph. Parkster "Graphster of Delta" lol. Hey, if you switch "expectations" with "posts" and "pain" with "gayness", that would be a graph of Ryu.

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    Thank you, Parkster.



    (By the way, is this or is this not a stereotypical example of Delta NF / Delta ST interaction? Delta NF tries to convey a formless idea (Ne), Delta ST turns it into concrete reality (Te+Si), and Delta NF gives some love (Fi). I know, that's terribly simplified and I'm probably just encouraging the propagation of horribly flawed stereotypes, but I think it's kind of funny. I wasn't even thinking about it like that until just now.)
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Oh ok... Now I get what you were saying Minde better with the graph. Parkster "Graphster of Delta" lol. Hey, if you switch "expectations" with "posts" and "pain" with "gayness", that would be a graph of Ryu.
     


    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
     


    . When I first read this, I forgot I had been the one starting this thread.

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    "No expectations, no disappointments." ~ Becker


    6:30 - 9:00 = pure gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Thank you, Parkster.
    You're welcome.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    lol this is awesome!!
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Expecting nothing from somebody might be one of the most productive things you can do to have a healthy relationship.
    True. And I agree with lots of points made in this thread. But I'd like to point out one thing.

    Don't lower expectations of yourself! Higher expectations are painful when they are of things outside your control. Other people, for example. You can't control other people. But what are some realistic expectations you can set for yourself? What can you do?

    Setting goals and expectations of yourself can be very rewarding, once you reach them. Just make sure they're realistic, and work hard, and you'll be happier than having no expectations at all.

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