ESFjs who are NOT socially super outgoing

[ladyinred]

does anyone know any?? i think a girl i work with is ESE, shes very bubbly and friendly with many people, loves people and many seem to love her too, but she has told me she doesnt go out to a lot of parties or out with people a lot, like she often will turn down parties invitations and such

does this contradict her being ESE??

[Trevor]

does this contradict her being ESE??

It doesn't.

[krieger]

An ESFj I used to know said she didn't have a lot of friends and "didn't understand" how others did build up big friend networks.

Other than that I do think their outgoingness is an integral part of being ESFj; just doesn't always show in the most stereotyped way.

[ladyinred]

It doesn't.

cool, thanks

An ESFj I used to know said she didn't have a lot of friends and "didn't understand" how others did build up big friend networks.

Other than that I do think their outgoingness is an integral part of being ESFj; just doesn't always show in the most stereotyped way.

okay, thats exactly what i wondered about. because this girl is super friendly and nice, she just isnt into partying or even a lot of hanging out according to her, shes even said she likes "alone time" i am willing to bet er version of alone time is pretty different then from IEIs kind, though, haha.

[pianosinger]

cool, thanks



okay, thats exactly what i wondered about. because this girl is super friendly and nice, she just isnt into partying or even a lot of hanging out according to her, shes even said she likes "alone time" i am willing to bet er version of alone time is pretty different then from IEIs kind, though, haha.

My sister is SEE, might be worth looking into for your friend. She (my sister) spends most of her "alone time" napping lol

[ladyinred]

My sister is SEE, might be worth looking into for your friend. She (my sister) spends most of her "alone time" napping lol

well this girl is just so FeSi seeming, but i will have to get to know her better to know for sure. what makes you sure your sister is SEE not ESE, not doubting your typing of her, just trying to understand the difference

[pianosinger]

what makes you sure your sister is SEE not ESE,

My sister has always been very stubborn. She would never accept a simple "no" without a reason to back it up; and even with a reason, she would often still test it. She really tested her limits growing up, moreso than any of the rest of us. Indicators point to Se-ego. Then, I believe she is Fi-Ego also, because she takes her friendships seriously and does everything she can to stay connected with people and to "keep the peace."

Also, a Look-a-Like relation between her and me just makes a whole lot more sense than Benefit.

[tcaudilllg]

I think it's an EM issue, but it's not so dependent on the position of the EM function as it is the demands of the interest in question. An artist is not gonna want to be talking to people because talking to people distracts from their art. But any INFP EM is gonna want pretty much continuous ability to observe people and to interact with them, although sometimes they are gonna want to close themselves off so that they can work through their sometimes violent emotions. I mean really, IEI EMs can get seriously worked up about something they read on the 'net. We need alone time to vent.

My ESTP-ENFJ aunt does three things: cook, work as a psychotherapist, and play on Facebook. That's about it. She's never been one to be out and about a lot, and she's always been a cheery person. She likes to be left pretty well alone in my experience. Einstein was an ILE-SLE, and well I don't have to tell you about HIS habits. Cops have LSI EM generally and... you can imagine how much interaction with people they have.

So it depends on the EM type but there is no pattern.

[Minde]

One of my best friends is an ESE who is "introverted" in the more commonly understood way. She is not very social at all. In fact, sometimes she dislikes social events more than I do, and I find myself being the one to encourage her to go out. Too much social interaction wears her out and she's a big fan of going to bed early. And, yet, she has an EJ temperament, is a caregiver, has Fe as her first function and Si as her second, etc. (I'd actually put her as possibly a Si subtype, which in some sub-theories would explain some of the extra introversion.)

[tcaudilllg]

One of my best friends is an ESE who is "introverted" in the more commonly understood way. She is not very social at all. In fact, sometimes she dislikes social events more than I do, and I find myself being the one to encourage her to go out. Too much social interaction wears her out and she's a big fan of going to bed early. And, yet, she has an EJ temperament, is a caregiver, has Fe as her first function and Si as her second, etc. (I'd actually put her as possibly a Si subtype, which in some sub-theories would explain some of the extra introversion.)

What does she like to do?

[pianosinger]

Another thought: If you're sure about her being Fe and Si Ego, have you considered ISFp?

Also look at ISFj.

[xerx]

Eysenck's Extrovert / Introvert has no place in classical Socionics. DCNH offers its own correlations, however, which you're free to explore.

[Creepy-male]

Any chance your introverted ESE is an SEI?

[krieger]

Eysenck's Extrovert / Introvert has no place in classical Socionics. DCNH offers its own correlations, however, which you're free to explore.

Here, this is the opposite extreme and it also annoys me to death. There is a very obvious correlation between socionics type and Big-5 extroversion. Acknowledging this fact is not incompatible with also criticizing the stance of taking extroversion as an absolute distinction rather than just as a tendency. But "no place in socionics", my eye.

Also DCNH just obfuscates the issue. It doesn't clarify it so much as it makes whatever claim is made less testable. Socionics should go in the opposite direction.

[Crispy]

If it looks like an introvert, and acts like an introvert, it's probably an introvert. Also DCNH should be reserved for AFTER the original type has been confirmed (as far as you can confirm it), not a quick fix to make an original typing fit.

If you are on the Introverted side of the introvert/extrovert spectrum, there is 100% no way you are an Introverted Extrovert.

[xerx]

Here, this is the opposite extreme and it also annoys me to death. There is a very obvious correlation between socionics type and Big-5 extroversion. Acknowledging this fact is not incompatible with also criticizing the stance of taking extroversion as an absolute distinction rather than just as a tendency. But "no place in socionics", my eye.

There is no obvious correlation between Eysenck's Extroversion / Introversion and classical Socionics Extroversion / Introversion is what that was saying.

Also DCNH just obfuscates the issue. It doesn't clarify it so much as it makes whatever claim is made less testable. Socionics should go in the opposite direction.

Not sure how you're interpreting DCNH, but if you see it as a subtype theory based on the strengthened use of an information element, then it has a tendency to better flesh out that element. It's not that hard to see a correlation between Eysenckian extroversion with Dominant subtype (Fe / Te) and Creative subtype (Ne / Se), for example.

[Beautiful sky]

Both my sister and cousin, who are ESE are somewhat anti-social; with this regard, they can seem like not only introverts, but very much like their illusionary relations, LSE. Remember that introvert and extravert does not mean social or antisocial. They mean, one gets is more in the objective world, orientation to things outside themselves.

Ne types, when in great health, can be very social, especially EII and IEE

[mikesilb]

I am a socially introverted ESE (Socioncs extravert/extratim type with an extraverted subtype) and I can relate to EVERYTHING in this thread. I am very friendly, warm, likeable...but I am in the middle in terms of social introversion/extraversion.

Yes, socially introverted ESE's can certainly exist!

[Absurd]

I am a socially introverted ESE (Socioncs extravert/extratim type with an extraverted subtype) and I can relate to EVERYTHING in this thread. I am very friendly, warm, likeable...but I am in the middle in terms of social introversion/extraversion.

Yes, socially introverted ESE's can certainly exist!

Your enneagram is incorrect though. Change it to 5w4, unless you don't want to decay further of course.

[mikesilb]

Your enneagram is incorrect though. Change it to 5w4, unless you don't want to decay further of course.

How in the world am I a 5? I totally don't see it.

[Absurd]

Thank you.

[mikesilb]

Your enneagram is incorrect though. Change it to 5w4, unless you don't want to decay further of course.

OK, you obviously think that something is wrong with my Socionics type assessment. I'm curious how you think that this should be modified.

[Absurd]

OK, you obviously think that something is wrong with my Socionics type assessment. I'm curious how you think that this should be modified.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...troverts/page2

[mikesilb]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...troverts/page2

Okay now I just caught up on that thread.

Don't you worry... I am not one of those ESE 5w4s. Perhaps it's remotely possible. Perhaps a monkey can type the entire works of Shakespeare. But heck...I am not one of those bizarre typings! Not a chance!

[mikesilb]

OK, you obviously think that something is wrong with my Socionics type assessment. I'm curious how you think that this should be modified.

I'm too damn sensitive about these things... I know, I know... Classic overreaction!

[Dionysus]

I am a socially introverted ESE (Socioncs extravert/extratim type with an extraverted subtype) and I can relate to EVERYTHING in this thread. I am very friendly, warm, likeable...but I am in the middle in terms of social introversion/extraversion.

Yes, socially introverted ESE's can certainly exist!

What makes you think you are an ESE with an extroverted sub type as opposed to an SEI with an extroverted subtype?

[mikesilb]

What makes you think you are an ESE with an extroverted sub type as opposed to an SEI with an extroverted subtype?

At one point I played with being an SEI, especially when I thought that a Socionics extravert/extratim relates to social extraversion (and hence, probably wasn't my type). As a result, there was a point when only introverted Socionics types were considered.

In spite of this, I noticed that I did not relate as well to to the extent that I related to . For example, I felt that I was not as immersed in moment-to-moment sensory impressions as much as I was deeply related to emotional energy (both my own and of the people around me). I was spending more time assessing the interpersonal cues from other people and trying to either conform to them and/or to modify them than I was in utilizing sensory impressions. Thus, seemed more right than .

Also, due to having the impression that I was a rationally dominant type, I knew that SEI would make less sense overall. I definitely could relate more to the 'attack-the-problem-head-on style' of EJ rather than to the more passively oriented IP. However for a few months, I stayed with SEI, thinking that I just had to be an subtype (using the 2-subtype system). The root of my reluctance to change was that I did not understand that Socionics extraversion is more of an energy and temperament-based measure rather than a socially driven measure.

Once other people asserted that I am a dominant type (due to my enthusiasm/passion, relatability/likeability, etc.) that got me on the right track towards realizing that I am an ESE rather than an SEI.

[mikesilb]

^ he's a positivist. and rational Ej. from the very little i've gathered from his posts.

Excellent observation! Totally accurate!

[mu4]

I think socially introverted ESE are more rare than common, but there are plenty of reason for people to stay closed off socially. People also settle down as they get older and such, however, I think if they "never" go out or only go out once a month, I doubt they're ESE, unless there's some reason they aren't engaged socially. ESE can also be workaholics so they might not want to be too social after work, although often they are.

I wouldn't really call ESE bubbly either, they're just LOUD. Even through ESE's are friendly they can also be hot tempered and yell at people, and give a emotional outburst.

[willekeurig]

I know a few.

[Dionysus]

At one point I played with being an SEI, especially when I thought that a Socionics extravert/extratim relates to social extraversion (and hence, probably wasn't my type). As a result, there was a point when only introverted Socionics types were considered.

In spite of this, I noticed that I did not relate as well to to the extent that I related to . For example, I felt that I was not as immersed in moment-to-moment sensory impressions as much as I was deeply related to emotional energy (both my own and of the people around me). I was spending more time assessing the interpersonal cues from other people and trying to either conform to them and/or to modify them than I was in utilizing sensory impressions. Thus, seemed more right than .

Also, due to having the impression that I was a rationally dominant type, I knew that SEI would make less sense overall. I definitely could relate more to the 'attack-the-problem-head-on style' of EJ rather than to the more passively oriented IP. However for a few months, I stayed with SEI, thinking that I just had to be an subtype (using the 2-subtype system). The root of my reluctance to change was that I did not understand that Socionics extraversion is more of an energy and temperament-based measure rather than a socially driven measure.

Once other people asserted that I am a dominant type (due to my enthusiasm/passion, relatability/likeability, etc.) that got me on the right track towards realizing that I am an ESE rather than an SEI.

I guess my biggest qualm with this is that Extroversion vs. Introversion should be able to predict behavior of people - otherwise it (socionics) will always remains in the realm of conjecture only.

It is also not odd that you find yourself spending more time assessing interpersonal cues during interaction when you are with people because. . . well. . . when you are with people you will obviously spend more time focused on their emotions. Extroverts also tend to be more focused on their surroundings, whereas introverts are focused on their own thoughts/feelings/responses to those - your Fe seems to have a bent towards being focused on your own impressions, and you seem to have misunderstood Si dominance for a constant focus on the surroundings (when it isn't - because introverts are less focused on their environments).

The first sentence of the ISFp description at wikisocion says:
"SEIs have a strong connection to and ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others." - which is exactly how you analyzed yourself.

Furthermore, an ISFp is not necessarily inclined to be passive:
"SEIs often feel that they are in a rush, both mentally and physically. Therefore, they can sometimes feel like they need to get everything done at once (which can be explained by the SEIs base and role functions). When an SEI starts a personal project, they often have the tendency to try to get concrete results in the shortest amount of time, which can lead to rushing and carelessness. This could lead to the SEI becoming stressed and overworked."

(At the risk of stereotyping) your post also seems to have more Ti than an ESE would usually have. It is important when typing yourself to consider your Super-Id wishes (or needs); do you feel that you need more Ti or Ne from a partner?

[Dionysus]

does anyone know any?? i think a girl i work with is ESE, shes very bubbly and friendly with many people, loves people and many seem to love her too, but she has told me she doesnt go out to a lot of parties or out with people a lot, like she often will turn down parties invitations and such

does this contradict her being ESE??

An SEI in public is going to be nearly identical to an ESE in public because they have the same way of dealing with the external world.