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Thread: Speak your mind, Gammas!

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    Cat Lady aixelsyd's Avatar
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    Default Speak your mind, Gammas!

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    Last edited by aixelsyd; 08-12-2011 at 06:40 AM.
    Life's a bitch and she's got me pussy whipped.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    Let's wrestle.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    Oddly enough that is largely how I often view socionics, particularly its reliance on 19th century understandings of neurology and theosophical leanings from the same era.

    I'd pipe up more often around here but given the ardent and credulous attitudes of many socionics hobbyists, what I've got to say would amount to giving lectures on fallacious thinking, superstition, and comparative religion in the middle of a church service.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    Where'd your post on clinging to outdated thinking get off to?

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Speak my mind? I suppose you want me to verbalize, although with inescapable inadequacy, meandering thoughts that have been frequenting my consciousness lately. Very well, I shall do so to the best of my ability, though realize the majority of my conceptions are inexpressible.


    As of late, I am without a purpose. I am aware that my peers should also be in the psychologically stressful period of the transition to young adulthood, yet I cannot help but feel that I am somewhat doing worse than what is expected of most. It does not worry me, but tires me, as I suffer life without direction or meaning. I am in between semesters in college. Meanwhile, I constantly attempt to challenge the futility of trying to find myself. The problem: I do not know where to start looking.


    Recreations of highschool life and old experiences with different people. Conspiracies. Mental discussions.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Post:
    Random thought: lol @ how society expects out-dated concepts to work in the present when situations have changed so much that what worked back then doesn't work now.

    It's kinda like people who still expect a woman to cook, clean, raise kids, and go to work in a day where marriage partners usually both work when such practices were suited for a time when there was economic dependence on the man by the woman. But we still, somewhat, cling to gender roles which, as far as I am concerned, make things worse for the current situation in our society than better.
    When considering modern behavior I find it useful to recall that what we do today is performed in the shadow of history stretching back thousands and even millions of years. While what we classify as humans have been around for maybe 200,000 years, civilization is a rather recent fad that arose only about 8 millenia ago. During the idyllic, hunter-gatherer phase, gender roles were largely determined by ability to hunt, which favored the males, and ability to raise slow-maturing, neotenistic children, which favored the females. This seems to have changed little as the bulk of humanity passed first into a pastoral and then fully agrarian phase, with men continuing to play the role of provider and protector, and women playing the role of housekeeper and nurturer. Now we've moved into a phase where more people (in the first world at least) have left the farms for urban lives, and where in many cases men and women are able to perform on an equal basis. However, since it's really only a few generations since this has occurred, changes in gender roles will continue to be met with resistance that has historical, cultural, visceral, biological roots.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Of course, that is just one example. It's just funny, to me, to see how people want to shove reality into a box of a given ideal without fitting the ideal to the reality or at least making realistic reforms to get to whatever ideal is in place, but usually that creates more problems than anything.

    It's so silly and yet we constantly do it. Why are we so afraid to admit that the way we do things is not necessarily right? Not trying to sound like a whiny kid, but it does baffle me sometimes.
    We humans are tiny little critters within an incomprehensibly expansive and complex world which we'll never come close to understanding, let alone perceiving or experiencing in anything more than the most glancing of ways (I'm speaking in absolutist terms here, of course). However, many people make the error of thinking that since they know a little bit then they must know a great deal, and based on this errant assumption they then make many another leap of faith and treat the illusory and false as the concrete and real.

    That said, if you're going to engage the world and get anything done, you've got to start somewhere. So decisions are made as to what is and isn't real, and decisions subsequently made then influence whether what was previously held as true continues to maintain its previous truth value, i.e. if if got away with what I thought I was going to be able to do, I'm gonna do it again, and if not I won't.
    Last edited by Korpsey; 12-29-2010 at 12:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    Oddly enough that is largely how I often view socionics, particularly its reliance on 19th century understandings of neurology and theosophical leanings from the same era.
    Argh. I'm glad someone else noticed that.

    I'd pipe up more often around here but given the ardent and credulous attitudes of many socionics hobbyists, what I've got to say would amount to giving lectures on fallacious thinking, superstition, and comparative religion in the middle of a church service.
    How dare you insult the faith of the believers in the sacred Model A and our holy prophet Aušra Augustinavičiūtė. That's just not Socionics.

    Someone oughta do something about you.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    It's like my thing with same sex marriage (or at least re-work civil unions to have equal benefits). Religion aside, I fail to see why it should be outlawed. We are no longer a patriarchal economic system, at least in our parts of the world. This means individuals, regardless of sex or gender can make it on their own, theoretically. They can support themselves economically, even wield power. They can be single and contribute to society. If they can be single and contribute, then certainly they can partner with whoever the hell they want and not be dependent on the society but can contribute like any other person and like any other partnership (provided all else is equal) and even raise kids if they are into that seeing how many kids are in this world who have no families.
    I think a good bit of that stems from many people's disinclination or inability to prevent their feelings from prejudicing their rational faculties (even being aware of this I'm still guilty at times, too). They might evaluate a situation logically and objectively but still harbor personal reservations that lead their final judgment in another direction. That might result from a perceived threat to their identity as an individual or demographic representative, their culture, their pocketbook, their pride, or their understanding of The Way Things Have Been and/or Should Be. At the onset of WWII the US was still mostly a nation of farmers and it's really only been a few decades since then, so the inertia of ancestral, paternalist-agrarian attitudes is still rolling along at a fair clip. In fact I don't think it was until the 1970s that women really began to enter the permanent workforce en masse, bringing various changes to economic and family dynamics.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    In part, I see this as a part of our evolution to help us survive better, but then again, as a species and as a collective body, we do plenty to fuck things up for ourselves and for the natural world. But I guess it's inevitable as humans seem to be like a massive parasite that feeds off of the natural world and its resources without mercy. I even, in one of my more introspective moments, mused that perhaps this growing appeal to the LGBT lifestyle might help us to cope with this reality (not that I am huge on the whole 'zomg,we r overpopulated' thing, not that I have devoted much time to researching the statistics here, but information manipulation is pretty rampant as it is so I sometimes ask myself where this information comes from, what it wants me to think, and why it wants me to think this way aside from more obvious interpretations.
    Malthusian scares make sense when considering the utility in a certain portion of the population in a limited-resource world adopting non-reproductive lifestyles. For whatever reasons homosexuality occurs, I'm forehead-slappingly sure there's some confluence of congenital predisposition and environmental influence at work. The ramifications of its popular acceptance, should that occur, will be better understood in hindsight.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Yeah, that was poorly worded but my mind is in an odd place, atm.
    It's all good, I find these conversations easier in meatspace where I'm freer to digress and ramble and don't feel as great a need to police my grammar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    As of late, I am without a purpose. I am aware that my peers should also be in the psychologically stressful period of the transition to young adulthood, yet I cannot help but feel that I am somewhat doing worse than what is expected of most. It does not worry me, but tires me, as I suffer life without direction or meaning. I am in between semesters in college. Meanwhile, I constantly attempt to challenge the futility of trying to find myself. The problem: I do not know where to start looking.
    I'm finding that common for people stuck in the fuzzy quarter-life grey zone (20-29 or so). Especially given current econ conditions. Some are pretty bent about not getting the Reward they felt promised from putting in their educational dues. Some are disillusioned by the offerings altogether and want something else.

    Anyway, it's hard to see it when you're sitting inside the bubble, where everyone and everything around you seems to suggest there is only one direction, one path, one doorway through which a person could ever possibly hope to attain any semblance of having a life. And if you deviate in any way from that specific sequence of stuff you're supposed to do… well, you'll probably end up miserable and desperately clinging to a shitty existence. Nameless, faceless, exiled to living on the fringes, never heard from again. Also presumably a lowlife scumbag. And so on.

    Which sounds ridiculous, and it is, though it feels that way regardless. But if you start taking an honest look at what other people outside the college twilight zone are actually upto—and it takes awhile to sink in—you'll find a lot of different lifestyles out there. Many people who don't follow those prescribed expectations to the letter, and are perfectly fine and happy.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    My battle is one of maintaining sanity when people around me act in insane ways or when I cannot have sane interactions with people. I don't know why I try or care as I feel crazy and want to do impulsive and crazy things to relieve my inner turmoil when it arises. I read something about crazy-making behavior, and it totally hit home. Having your sense of sanity chipped away, it just...I dunno.
    Gamma surrounded by betas?
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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Living with people who show strong traits of personality disorders. Delta in this case. Being misinterpreted, maligned, and such. To an extent that goes beyond sane, sometimes. It's sometimes to the point where I consider ODing on something but that's once in a blue moon. I'm pretty tough, but get tired of it and am just so emotionally exhausted some days and don't see the point in caring and shut down into my own hidden world, I guess....disconnect from everything and everyone.
    Oh, dear. Personality disorders = non-fun. Find a nice Jewish boy? (By which I mean, find a sane person to take care of you, someone who needs someone to take care of---this does not necessarily imply a gross stereotypical mother bake-you-cookies kind of socionics mistyped ESE enneagram 2 caretaking---and rely on someone else for a while. Do it long enough to make yourself stronger so that you can deal more.)

    Living with meaning living with, like in the same building/apartment/house? To the point that you can't get away? I'm just trying to think of solutions.

    I hate people (frequently). Shutting down is okay sometimes too. Books. Books are good to shut down with. It's just enough of a person to not hurt you in a certain way and you still don't feel totally alone. Almost as good as religion.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post

    As of late, I am without a purpose. I am aware that my peers should also be in the psychologically stressful period of the transition to young adulthood, yet I cannot help but feel that I am somewhat doing worse than what is expected of most. It does not worry me, but tires me, as I suffer life without direction or meaning. I am in between semesters in college. Meanwhile, I constantly attempt to challenge the futility of trying to find myself. The problem: I do not know where to start looking.
    I am in your boat, sir. While I have many hobbies I feel fulfilled by and that keep the nihilism at bay, I still feel that now that I've dropped out of college that I've lost my one real "shot" at life. Which is silly, but, as Ashton put so well, I can't really conceive of any other path: all I've ever known is just going in to school or work, and having the security of knowing exactly what to do all the time: get good grades, do a good job. Done.

    Now... I don't know, I'm rambling. Text-rambling. My fingers are rambling. Suffice to say, I share your weariness.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    Oddly enough that is largely how I often view socionics, particularly its reliance on 19th century understandings of neurology and theosophical leanings from the same era.

    I'd pipe up more often around here but given the ardent and credulous attitudes of many socionics hobbyists, what I've got to say would amount to giving lectures on fallacious thinking, superstition, and comparative religion in the middle of a church service.
    Well I see no reason why not to do it. I mean, one always has to keep in mind that Socionics *might* just be a very enjoyable form of brain poison that doesn't have any real value in regards to relationships.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Living with people who show strong traits of personality disorders. Delta in this case. Being misinterpreted, maligned, and such. To an extent that goes beyond sane, sometimes. It's sometimes to the point where I consider ODing on something but that's once in a blue moon. I'm pretty tough, but get tired of it and am just so emotionally exhausted some days and don't see the point in caring and shut down into my own hidden world, I guess....disconnect from everything and everyone just to take care of myself and protect myself.

    My destructive impulses don't last long and I swing back to normal quickly, but in the heat of the moment, it's a struggle to stay together and take it. I hate emotional and psychological fuckery, though. I almost prefer a physical battle that is more direct and does not require mental gymnastics to make sense of things.
    Any ability to get away? Maybe if you just spent more time out of your living space? I think I used to feel somewhat like this about my family, but thankfully I think I have made some progress in putting the broken pieces of our family back together. It's definitely a process though... Anyway, I hope you continue on staying strong and that things get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    I am in your boat, sir. While I have many hobbies I feel fulfilled by and that keep the nihilism at bay, I still feel that now that I've dropped out of college that I've lost my one real "shot" at life. Which is silly, but, as Ashton put so well, I can't really conceive of any other path: all I've ever known is just going in to school or work, and having the security of knowing exactly what to do all the time: get good grades, do a good job. Done.

    Now... I don't know, I'm rambling. Text-rambling. My fingers are rambling. Suffice to say, I share your weariness.
    You can always go back to school at most any point in time in your life. Plus, i've just graduated with my degree and idk what the heck I'm gonna do for a job. My friend who graduated last may just found a job recently and one that I wouldn't even want. But yea I understand that odd time where you aren't sure what you are supposed to do. I'm kind of there.

    And as usual korpsy you make me laugh lol

    Right now my life is kind of up in the air. I'm probably gonna go to grad school next fall. Need to finish those applications but idk where I want to go. I don't feel like moving away again and then coming back. Going back and forth between lives is difficult for me and it makes me anxious when one has to end. I kind of just want to set up my life somewhere for now. I need to find some sort of job but idk what. I need and want a job but i hate the searching process and I hate new jobs. I hate that period where I have to learn everything and don't know enough and have to ask lots of questions. Overall im not really really happy or unhappy. I think once I get my life started back up things will get better. Somehow I have become such an optimist... lol.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Struggling with distances. Haven't spoken to anyone face to face in good company for a while now. I feel emotionally manipulated by people I've grown to like online, that I don't get enough attention. I'm so disconnected I can't bring myself to hang out with anyone irl. Continuously reminiscing over old love(also ).


    Looking at art (also )
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    once i start browsing through tumblrs i can't stop.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    Quote Originally Posted by timewaster View Post
    once i start browsing through tumblrs i can't stop.
    My ESI chum also makes a rather absorbing hobby of flipping through tumblrs and adding tons of pix to her own. She's also responsible for the most popular image gallery on a certain media-heavy website and has a great eye for composition when she gets behind a camera herself. Type related??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

    I've got an extensive collection of web pix that I rarely look at and never use, similar to my huge pile of saved wikipedia entries.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    I've got an extensive collection of web pix that I rarely look at and never use, similar to my huge pile of saved wikipedia entries.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    The wiki-heaping habit developed while living in the sticks without home internet. Transferring wiki entries from library computer via mp3 player was a cheap way to build an offline reference resource. Nowadays the file pile is ignored in favor of various reference and text books, plus the ubiquitous internet of the urban zone.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    I create bookmarks, folders and notes all the time without ever going back to them.

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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    @silverchris and Bardia: Yeah, it's living under the same roof. My gut says wait it out until I am done with college and keep it together when the insanity creeps in.

    Fortunately my best friend is helping me to get some escape and interact with more people and to get a sense of more normalcy instead of relying on school and other things to get that.

    I dunno, it's weird talking about it, but it's like this quest of trying to find 'normal.' And then I realize, what is normal? Is this not just normal for me?
    So is your family the ones driving you insane and you're going to move out after college?

    I'm glad you're getting out and being more social now as that can definitely help alleviate many problems. I've found that it's not about finding lots of people but the right people.

    Most people aren't normal and the concept of normal is stupid. I just know its nice to find people who you can share whatever with and they don't care and accept you as is.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    She's also responsible for the most popular image gallery on a certain media-heavy website and has a great eye for composition when she gets behind a camera herself. Type related??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

    I've got an extensive collection of web pix that I rarely look at and never use, similar to my huge pile of saved wikipedia entries.

    cool story.i've always wanted to save the best pics i come across but i lack the drive. In fact,i remember creating a couple of tumblr accounts myself in different times but they got lost into oblivion without even making an entry at first.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Anyways, enough of that, EyeSeeCold's sig got me thinking. Do ILIs really feel content not doing things (concrete things?) Not to make stereotypes, but in general.
    The things I do must have some tangible purpose, but that is my problem. I become so economical that I end up not doing much and this creates a self-perpetuating cycle of laziness or inertia. The more "goal oriented" I am, the less I focus on negative outcomes and the less pessimistic I feel. It's not really about being content doing nothing, it is beyond that - it's like I can't provide the drive to start myself up. Helplessness, really. So I just go deeper and deeper to find some kind of stimulation.
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    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    The things I do must have some tangible purpose, but that is my problem. I become so economical that I end up not doing much and this creates a self-perpetuating cycle of laziness or inertia. The more "goal oriented" I am, the less I focus on negative outcomes and the less pessimistic I feel. It's not really about being content doing nothing, it is beyond that - it's like I can't provide the drive to start myself up. Helplessness, really. So I just go deeper and deeper to find some kind of stimulation.
    Make your own Se, become super individual.

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    yeah
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    It's impossible to keep it up.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    I know in my free time I mostly waste time and really don't do shit. It depresses the heck out of me. I recognize I really only feel happy when I am laughing, with good friends, or doing something and accomplishing something. Everything else makes me feel dead. And in general, if people are around, I feel unhappy if I just sit in a corner and try to shut people out. It's like I can't. And if I do, it's because I feel like alienated or something.
    I feel the same, and I mean it. It's not a vague "relate" or whatever. You're precisely voicing my sentiments, as you often are when you speak of emotions or feelings. I don't really speak of those but I guess you might be more open, simply.

    If I am ILI, I am an emotionally volatile one with a lot of mood swings. If I am SEE, I am pretty mopey but tend to hide it pretty well in company until I get tired of putting on a happy face to go along with whatever the people around me want to do.
    I associate mood swings with dynamic types. I don't think these are atypical for an ILI, but maybe I'm wrong here, or just atypical myself and biased by it.

    And I already feel awkward making this post because it's out of line with my largely indifferent forum persona because I tend not to see the point in coming off as emotional as I am here, but figured, what the hell. I owe nobody here shit and if it seems out of place, well, people can go bite me. Damn, I sound bitter.

    I'm normally not this out of sorts, but it comes and goes.
    Yeah. You're far more articulate about it than I am, alright. But I still could have written the above at one point or another, if I wasn't avoiding it.

    Sorry for essentially making this post about comparison with myself but I guess that's about what I had to say about it. A lot of what I agree with might be human being related, but somehow I don't think it all is. And if I don't agree, it's usually because I don't see a point in nodding.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It's not really about being content doing nothing, it is beyond that - it's like I can't provide the drive to start myself up. Helplessness, really. So I just go deeper and deeper to find some kind of stimulation.
    That too. To an extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Most of my ILI friends are way smarter than I am and know their shit a lot better than I do.
    Last time we spoke you were intelligent and competent. That must be some really smart ILI's then.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    ...maternal, babies, translator of human communication, love of languages, polygots, love, (human) nature, poetry, messages, Oxytocin, compassion, Storge, psychological understanding.

    Any LIEs present to sort that out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    ...maternal, babies, translator of human communication, love of languages, polygots, love, (human) nature, poetry, messages, Oxytocin, compassion, Storge, psychological understanding.

    Any LIEs present to sort that out?
    What? I'm guessing that's a stream of consciousness thing about your associations to … ?

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Psychological understanding...

    Sorry, just reminds me how I seem to exist as a sounding board for many people but either because of my own fear of being selfish draw people who just use me for that purpose. I think I am starting to learn to spot it when it comes and to avoid putting myself in that position.

    I realize I need to stop trying to pretend I care and care for my own well-being first. Being a do-gooder and assuming the answers I receive in prayer or whatever are the right thing. It just ends up hurting me and putting me in the bad position. I am an idiot. In the end is no thanks, appreciation, understanding or receptivity to your own problems which you have neglected to play nice. And you look like a dumbass.

    On the positive note, I am learning and learning self-respect of that sort.
    Yeah, self-pres is good. Besides, if you're not being good to yourself, you'll be useless to others anyway. Nothing wrong with prioritizing yourself when need be.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    What? I'm guessing that's a stream of consciousness thing about your associations to … ?
    Yeah, they were just floating in my head at the time. I thought they could probably be useful in applied Socionics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Yeah, they were just floating in my head at the time. I thought they could probably be useful in applied Socionics.
    Oh. I'm not sure. The only thing I got from it was that you sounded needy.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    That wasn't about me lol. I had a thought train that was going too fast so I published them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekpyrosos View Post
    I LIKE PEOPLE, PLACES, AND THINGS - HOW ABOUT YOU???
    I find them kind of... eh.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I find them kind of... eh.
    Hey. As a honorary gamma, something like Hitler, thanks MrSomething, I find places and people to be fine.

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    I turn the inner-eye to view the world of 'objects' not through the lens of 'being', rather through the lens of 'doing'. I ask not, 'what is this' but, 'what does it do?'; facts are only suggestions and details are trivial and matter only insofar as they offer insight into the cause and effect of a thing. By observing what a thing does I can examine the underlying assumptions that fuel the arbitrary divisions of the many into the one - and the one into the many.

    Time is the arete of existence.

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    sometimes I realize things about myself and I don't know what to do about them and I get scared I'll forget and then everything will stay the same. having a boner for emotionally unavailable men isn't te seeking. its just being an idiot. so now what do I do??

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    in music when every note/ syllable is distinct and separate. like the chorus of the cults you know what I mean. is there a word for that? staccato or something. I'm still not sick of that song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    sometimes I realize things about myself and I don't know what to do about them and I get scared I'll forget and then everything will stay the same.
    I do this. I write these things down. find them later..and decided if I'd changed and if not, did it turn out to be a big deal or not?

    I like the changes I've made.

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