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Thread: Confusing INFps and ESTps

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    Default Confusing INFps and ESTps

    Why do I often confuse SLE's with IEI's? What's the logical explanation for this? One can often appear like their duals I've heard, but why?

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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    I dunno--I can think of some reasons having to do with the fact that SLE and IEI are both irrationals, so as a rational you home in on that quality right away? And then get a little stuck?

    The SLE will throw out some weird Fe stuff. An IEI will try to use Ti. So maybe you will see the HAs at work and think maybe you're seeing the creative function?

    As for the leading elements, the following is based on something Ananke once said, but I'm going to muddle it up. The SLE's leading Se functions a lot like IEI's leading Ni; they're both irrational elements, and they both are what I jokingly call "psychic power." Ni realizes perceptions and images and knowledge without logically understanding how it got there, through an inner process. Se does the same, leaps to knowledge, but based on an outer process. The Ni's clues have to do with how things struck him/her, and the Se picks up on clues from the environment but can't necessarily tell you what all the clues are.

    The SLE can get all gloomy, which can look like the IEI being lost in his/her own little world?

    The IEI when really pissed off can get harsh or pushy like an SLE.

    Someone somewhere on this forum once said that the SLE is like an IEI turned inside-out. Maybe that's true of all dual pairs? It seems like the SLE is much softer and dreamier on the inside than we would know based on their personae, and likewise, the IEI has a grittier core than people would guess.

    What's different ...

    The eyes. SLE eyes are searching outward, look intensely focused, really take in the world, and can be penetrating, and yeah, SLEs can do that staring-from-under-the-eyebrows thing. SLEs just seem more solid to me than IEIs do. The SLE woman might seem deceptively delicate, but she has a toughness--it's easy to imagine her acting tough even if I've never seen that behavior from her.

    IEI eyes ... harder for me to say since I've got 'em, but it seems like they're soft and unfocused-looking, and halfway into what is being seen in the IEI's own mind. I don't associate IEIs with toughness, but even so, we can be very strong inside. Where an SLE might act strong or tough, if I'm in a situation where I NEED to act that way, I just seem ... I think I use a lot of Fe in those situations. I come across as emotional and uncollected.

    Also, there's always just the Fi versus Te PoLR--good way to tell the two apart if you can see evidence of these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I dunno--I can think of some reasons having to do with the fact that SLE and IEI are both irrationals, so as a rational you home in on that quality right away? And then get a little stuck?

    The SLE will throw out some weird Fe stuff. An IEI will try to use Ti. So maybe you will see the HAs at work and think maybe you're seeing the creative function?

    As for the leading elements, the following is based on something Ananke once said, but I'm going to muddle it up. The SLE's leading Se functions a lot like IEI's leading Ni; they're both irrational elements, and they both are what I jokingly call "psychic power." Ni realizes perceptions and images and knowledge without logically understanding how it got there, through an inner process. Se does the same, leaps to knowledge, but based on an outer process. The Ni's clues have to do with how things struck him/her, and the Se picks up on clues from the environment but can't necessarily tell you what all the clues are.

    The SLE can get all gloomy, which can look like the IEI being lost in his/her own little world?

    The IEI when really pissed off can get harsh or pushy like an SLE.

    Someone somewhere on this forum once said that the SLE is like an IEI turned inside-out. Maybe that's true of all dual pairs? It seems like the SLE is much softer and dreamier on the inside than we would know based on their personae, and likewise, the IEI has a grittier core than people would guess.

    What's different ...

    The eyes. SLE eyes are searching outward, look intensely focused, really take in the world, and can be penetrating, and yeah, SLEs can do that staring-from-under-the-eyebrows thing. SLEs just seem more solid to me than IEIs do. The SLE woman might seem deceptively delicate, but she has a toughness--it's easy to imagine her acting tough even if I've never seen that behavior from her.

    IEI eyes ... harder for me to say since I've got 'em, but it seems like they're soft and unfocused-looking, and halfway into what is being seen in the IEI's own mind. I don't associate IEIs with toughness, but even so, we can be very strong inside. Where an SLE might act strong or tough, if I'm in a situation where I NEED to act that way, I just seem ... I think I use a lot of Fe in those situations. I come across as emotional and uncollected.

    Also, there's always just the Fi versus Te PoLR--good way to tell the two apart if you can see evidence of these.
    You forgot to mention that SLEs prefer pubic hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You forgot to mention that SLEs prefer pubic hair.
    loll
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You forgot to mention that SLEs prefer pubic hair.
    Goes without saying!

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    Remember the functions pairs are the same thing, just from a different perspective.

    Ni - Se
    Fe - Ti
    Ti - Fe
    Se - Ni

    Similar recognizable trouble with the past/present/future
    Similar recognizable trouble with accountability/responsibility of personal behavior in society

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Why do I often confuse SLE's with IEI's? What's the logical explanation for this? One can often appear like their duals I've heard, but why?
    It's because when they are self-actualized they tend to use the same kind of information to interact with the outside world - valued info.

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    I agree with those who say that it depends on the dualization or lack thereof, of the subject. For example, I have an non-dualized SLE friend who is very easy to type as SLE. But my sister-in-law, who has been with my IEI brother for 20 years now is much harder to type. And it could be partly the gender factor but she displays a lot more Fe readily and doesn't show the same sorts of weaknesses that non dualized SLEs show. She and my brother kind of... meld together almost. It's interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Why do I often confuse SLE's with IEI's? What's the logical explanation for this? One can often appear like their duals I've heard, but why?
    Because they're very similar. Their primary element dichotomies (Bodies/Fields, Dynamic/Static and External/Internal) are opposite, which means that their composite element dichotomies (eg. Rational/Irrational, Merry/Serious, Judicious/Decisive), which are determined by the former and that determine the compatibility, are identical.

    Eg:
    Ni: Fields + Dynamic = Irrational
    Se: Bodies + Static = Irrational
    or:
    Ni: Fields + Internal = Decisive
    Se: Bodies + External = Decisive.
    or:
    Fe = Bodies + Internal = Merry
    Ti = Fields + External = Merry

    For instance, both IEI and SLE are Decisive, Serious and Irrational, dichotomies that manifest very strongly in type.
    Last edited by The Ineffable; 01-16-2011 at 02:55 AM. Reason: changed to IEI/SLE, on the topic
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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I agree with those who say that it depends on the dualization or lack thereof, of the subject. For example, I have an non-dualized SLE friend who is very easy to type as SLE. But my sister-in-law, who has been with my IEI brother for 20 years now is much harder to type. And it could be partly the gender factor but she displays a lot more Fe readily and doesn't show the same sorts of weaknesses that non dualized SLEs show. She and my brother kind of... meld together almost. It's interesting.
    I think I've noticed this too.

    On a side note, I have the same problem distinguishing ILE/SEI...
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    The SLE will throw out some weird Fe stuff. An IEI will try to use Ti. So maybe you will see the HAs at work and think maybe you're seeing the creative function?
    Generally pretty good observation.

    The SLE's leading Se functions a lot like IEI's leading Ni; they're both irrational elements, and they both are what I jokingly call "psychic power." Ni realizes perceptions and images and knowledge without logically understanding how it got there, through an inner process. Se does the same, leaps to knowledge, but based on an outer process. The Ni's clues have to do with how things struck him/her, and the Se picks up on clues from the environment but can't necessarily tell you what all the clues are.
    I read in Filatova that SLEs often say their intuition is top notch because they, of all types, are the best at calculating the outcome of a situation based on external, readily observable factors in their environment. Se and Ti. Good for warmongering.

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