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Thread: Emotionally expressive, dramatic ILIs-INTps

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    Cat Lady aixelsyd's Avatar
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    Default Emotionally expressive, dramatic ILIs-INTps

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    Last edited by aixelsyd; 08-12-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Pretty fucking weird.

    I could easily see an ILI being emotional, but I don't think they'd ever show it.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    I've known some XLIs that are outwardly expressive in a very sarcastic and patronizing way. I don't know if I would call them dramatic.
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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    Depends. People have varying ideas of what it means to be dramatic, spastic, or emotionally flamboyant. What seems over the top to me might seem plausibly normal to someone else. These sorts of anecdotal descriptors are way too vague and subjective without seeing the person firsthand.
    It is, however, possible to draw an objective scale of emotional expressiveness, with this guy on one end:



    And then my avatar on the other.

    I'd say XLIs are likely closer in general to Mr. Governator up there (though IRL Schwarzenegger is a brilliant fucking manipulative SEE-Te).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    What the fuck is an SEE-Te?
    An SEE concerned with establishing control and dominance. That is -- an SEE of the Te IE subtype.

    Strengthening function forms the lingering behavior. This method of domination is secondary. This is the business leader, who persistently and emphatically gets his own way.
    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    I agree with those who say Schwarzenegger is LSE. Not that I care, but just saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    Yeah he is… also just saying. Don't want to argue over it w/ anyone since it's not going to change any minds.
    He's a master emotional manipulator, as can be seen in his Pumping Iron documentary, where he for example once trashed an opponent in front of his own parents under the guise of friendly conversation:



    And then another time he convinced an opponent to scream like a maniac in front of the judges, ruining his performance.



    Which leads me to believe he's an F-creative type.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Okay, how 'normal' would you say it would be for an ILI to be described, as a defining characteristic, as 'emphatic' or even 'dramatic?' Or even expressive, emotional, and spastic?

    Personally, I don't see it. Granted, I can think of one ILI and she is pretty...flamboyant at times, but it's never really...in your face.
    Defining characteristic? No.

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    Yes, doesn't sound much ILI. If I hear words like 'dramatic', 'expressive', 'flamboyant' and others, IEI comes to mind.
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    Emphaty in the exact definition means the cognitive ability to put yourself in another persons place.

    It's a strong point for introverts, especially Ni leading types. So ILI's yes.

    Compassion which is often thought to be the same, is something different. The ability to share another persons pleasure or pain. This is probably not something an ILI is good at.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    ^ But not as a defining characteristic. Note that we can feel one way internally but not decide to exhibit that feeling externally. The only people who know I can show empathy are people I know online. I get shocked faces whenever people see me doing a good deed. Because of my aversion to the exhibition of feelings, I can be more generous to strangers than familiar people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    I don't see anything here that contradicts ESTj—especially given such an obvious EJ temperament.
    Why EJ rather than EP?

    Also, the implication that -creative makes people "master emotional manipulators," is stupid.
    Emotionally-based management and manipulation is an Ethical theme by very definition. types manipulate by stirring people emotionally to their side, whereas types do so through managing emotional distance (essentially, s go "you know it's riiiiiiight" and s go "I'm your frieeeeeeend"). Se + Fi is characterized by this, which is why SEEs make excellent politicians (they aren't called the "politician" type for naught). Now, it is quite possible for Logical types to learn how to do this, but it'd be more likely if such were the Logical's HA rather than suggestive, which is why LSE is less likely than SEE. Further, I don't particularly see Schwarzenegger as an Si-valuer (let alone Si-ego). Where do you see Si?

    And 8 subtypes is way too fucking many.
    Bah, the more the merrier I say.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Emphaty in the exact definition means the cognitive ability to put yourself in another persons place.
    True. But you're defining "empathy," and the OP said "emphatic," not "empathetic."

    Just trying to keep everyone on the same page...

    My ILI can be fairly dramatic, but only around people (like me) whome he feels very comfortable with. And when he does get dramatic, it's usually over something that challenges his Ni: that is, something bad happens and he beats himself up emotionally about it because he "should have seen it coming."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    Eh, I don't buy that. It's obvious that little children of every type routinely engage in forms of emotional manipulation, even before they're able to walk.
    Little children also don't have a type. Type preferences and strengths are refined as you grow older and develop a strategy for dealing with the outer world. The most one could say is developed by that age is temperament (which itself is partly genetic).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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